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House Of Representatives To Vote On Bill Stopping Operational Changes At And Providing Funding To U.S. Postal Service; President Trump Accuses FDA Of Delaying Vaccine For COVID-19; Positivity Rate For Coronavirus Remains Low In New York; Former Chess Champion Garry Kasparov Interviewed On Alleged Poisoning Of Russian Opposition Leader To Vladimir Putin; Schools Undertaking Protocols To Deal With Coronavirus As They Reopen. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired August 22, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: This new CNN special report, "Women Represented, The 100 Year Battle for Equality" begins tonight at 10:00 eastern.

And hello, everyone, thanks so much for joining me. I'm Bianna Golodyrga in for Fredricka Whitfield. And we are following breaking news on Capitol Hill at this hour, where a rare and politically divisive Saturday vote is taking place in the House this afternoon. Right now, lawmakers in Congress are debating a $25 billion package to help boost the Postal Service, with a vote expected to follow soon after. The bill is aimed at preventing delays and interference with election mail, a critical priority now that many Americans are mailing in their ballots because of the pandemic.

Phil Mattingly is covering these developments for us on Capitol Hill. And Phil, House speaker Pelosi says she expects this bill to pass today with some Republican support as well. Will it be enough to get this aid package beyond the House?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Some Republican support being the key word, which would make it mostly not enough in order to move this beyond the House. It will pass in the House and there will be Republicans who vote for it, and I think the U.S. Postal Service broadly as an issue is something that members have been hearing about repeatedly over the course of the last several weeks from their constituents. In some cases, hundreds or thousands of calls from constituents who have seen very real delays in their mail, and that has caused big problems regardless of party.

Where the two issues and where the two parties have diverged is on the issue of election mail. You saw the Postmaster General Louis DeJoy on Capitol Hill on Friday testify that he believes the Postal Service is fully capable of handling whatever comes its way in terms of mail-in ballots. We expect as many as 10, 20, 30 million more mail-in ballots than traditionally happen in an election year because of the pandemic.

And Republicans, as such, have labeled Democratic concerns, which they've raised a lot over the course of the last several weeks, as a conspiracy theory as it pertains to the election itself. Democrats obviously push back and say, look, we're just listening to what the president says.

The president has made very clear his concerns about mail-in ballots, his feelings about the U.S. Postal Service. But it's also important to also listen to what Speaker Pelosi said today. This is about more than just the election. This is about the Postal Service in general. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: But I think it's very useful to people to take the pride that it does -- letters to Santa, messages from the Tooth Fairy, families communicating. I know people are doing some things on social media, and that's good, but as a grandmother I can tell you there's no substitute than a drawing or a note from your grandchild through the mail.

But more important than that, as important as that is to our culture, our health, 1.2 billion prescriptions sent through the mail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Those prescriptions particularly to veterans, benefit checks as well. That resonates across party lines.

What this bill today the Democrats will pass would do would apply $25 billion to the U.S. Postal Service, which has been in dire financial straits for several years now. It would also block a lot of the operational changes that were put into place by the Postal Service over the course of the last several weeks that have been attributed to why the slowdowns in mail service have occurred.

I would say there's no expectation the Senate is going to take up this bill in particular any time soon. However, the House will pass this bill in the next several hours. And at least on the funding piece of things keep an eye on the broader coronavirus relief package negotiations. They've been stalled out now for a couple of weeks. But this was an area of actual agreement between White House negotiators and Democrats in terms of funding the U.S. Postal Service. So it may come back around in those negotiations, just not necessarily in this bill, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: It may have not helped that Speaker Pelosi referred to Mark Meadows as "What's his name" in terms of coming together and trying to have any consensus.

MATTINGLY: They've got a long way to go in these times.

GOLODRYGA: Exactly. But it is a rare moment to see them back on a Saturday in August. Phil Mattingly, thank you so much.

We're also seeing protests around the country over this issue. People want to be sure their ballot will count in November if they cast it by mail. They're also calling for the postmaster general to resign. Protesters in Washington began their demonstration in front of the Trump hotel and marched to Capitol Hill. This as hundreds across the country take part in what they're calling "Save the Post Office" Saturday.

Meantime, the White House is threatening to veto the Postal Service bill if it makes it to the president's desk, and the Trump campaign is now accusing Democrats of pushing conspiracy theories about the post office. For more on this, let's bring in Jeremy Diamond at the White House.

Jeremy, who would have thought that we would have been talking about the post office and conspiracy theories, now the president, who brought this up to begin with, is accusing Democrats of falsehoods. You can understand why this is so confusing to Americans. Can you break it down for us?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, no doubt. Look, in this veto threat from the administration about this bill, they say that this bill misses an opportunity to bring the reforms needed to the U.S. Postal Service.

[14:05:01]

And they also argue that it would arbitrarily give $25 billion to the Postal Service without tying it directly to the coronavirus pandemic or the issue of mail-in voting. Essentially the administration is providing a series of official reasons for why they would not support this bill, why the president would veto this bill if, indeed, it made it to his desk.

But of course, we have heard from the president himself, and he has given us his very clear rationale for opposing additional money for the Postal Service, and that is, in the president's own words, that he opposes this funding because it would make it easier to expand mail-in voting across the country. And that is something that the president, of course, has been railing against for weeks now. As recently as a couple of days ago, the president Trump was once again claiming that mail-in voting would lead to widespread fraud. But of course, we know that there is no evidence to back that up.

Additionally, I think it's notable that in this veto threat, the administration also suggests that there have not been any changes to postal service across the country. That is something, of course, that postal workers have very much made clear is not the case, and even the Postmaster General Louis DeJoy yesterday in his meeting on Capitol Hill, he acknowledged we have had some delays in getting the mail out.

DeJoy also did commit yesterday, though, to treating election mail like it would have been treated in any other election year, and he claimed that if those mail-in ballots are sent seven days ahead of the election, he can assure that they will go through.

But Democrats, of course, are pushing for those assurances in this bill. They want to make sure that there is something to hold the postmaster general and this administration accountable.

GOLODRYGA: And it was interesting to hear House Speaker Pelosi tell Americans to ignore these fraud accusations against mail-in ballots from the president, but what she said not to ignore is what the president did this morning, attacking his top health agency, accusing the FDA of delaying a COVID vaccine to hurt his reelection. This even in this era is stunning to hear from the president of the United States, his handpicked FDA commissioner. Can you talk about what this says?

DIAMOND: No doubt. And really, there is nothing to back up what the president is saying here. There is no indication that the FDA is slow walking, and certainly not intentionally slow walking the development of vaccines and therapeutics. In fact, they are squarely focused on that very task.

But let me read you the president's tweet from this morning where he said "The deep state or whoever over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics, obviously they're hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed and saving lives!" And you see the president there tagging the FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn.

Look, again, there's no evidence to back up what the president is saying here, but he did in a follow-up tweet after that also suggest that he disagreed with the FDA's decision to revoke that emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine. So it's not clear if that's the therapeutic that the president is mentioning there.

But there's no doubt that this puts the president at odds with what the FDA is trying to do here, which is base their decisions on the science and try and quell those concerns from the public that they are trying to speed things ahead for political expediency. That is the very message that president is sending here and suggesting is what they should be doing.

GOLODRYGA: Whatever his intentions, grossly irresponsible from the commander in chief of the United States of America. Jeremy Diamond, thank you.

The president's attacks come as new research models show that nearly 310,000 Americans could die of the coronavirus by December 1st. Doctors at the University of Washington say 69,000 lives could be saved if more Americans wore masks.

Meanwhile, we're getting yet another warning, as you just heard, about hydroxychloroquine, the controversial drug the president continues to tout. The Infectious Disease Society of America says the drug should not be used to treat coronavirus patients at all, not at all, never.

The group now says doctors should not even experiment with the drug as a part of clinical trials. The FDA's most recent guidance cautions against using the drug outside of a hospital setting or a clinical trial due to a risk of heart rhythm problems.

But there is a bit of good news in the fight against the pandemic. Governor Andrew Cuomo says New York's coronavirus positivity rate has remained below one percent for 15 days straight. New York reporting under 700 new cases and just four coronavirus deaths across the state on Friday. The state's declining numbers come as other states are struggling to contain the virus.

CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro is here. And Evan, what can other regions learn from New York? Hopefully they don't all have to endure the pain and the loss that we experienced here in the spring.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's not really clear yet, Bianna. It's nice to talk to you. For one thing, one thing other regions can learn from New York, despite all the positive news here, this state remains pretty locked down. That's in spite of these numbers showing, like the seven-day rolling average of new cases, just showing that number shooting right down. This state is really under still extreme lockdowns.

Let me give you an example of gyms. On Monday, finally, after months, gyms in New York state are going to be allowed to reopen again, but only at 33 percent capacity, and without things like group activities like classes are still banned. And in New York City, where I'm standing, gyms will remain closed even as they open the rest of the state. It's just a very, very cautious approach here.

The other thing that New York has done is really focused a lot on testing. Governor Andrew Cuomo announced today that last week there was a day where there were nearly 95,000 tests in a single day. So for other places in the country to look at New York, what they're going to look at is a place that's locked down, stayed locked down, and then remained focused on things like testing and try to be proactive measures to try to get control of this pandemic, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: And mask wearing has been strongly implemented here as well over the past few months.

Let me ask you, Evan. Syracuse University, we're covering the education beat during the week, and there's a lot of news to cover. Syracuse just the latest to suspend 23 students after a large group gathered on campus earlier this week. What more are we learning about this? The head of the school was very angry and sent a fiery letter after that.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Well, look, this has been the season of angry letters from administrators to students at colleges. Our numbers show that at least 19 states in America that have reopened schools have seen COVID outbreaks on campus. And at Syracuse this all began Wednesday, which is before classes even start.

They start on Monday, On Wednesday, images on social media showed dozens of students gathered on a quad, many of them not wearing masks. That's against the rules at Syracuse University. And the president put out a letter saying, look, if you do this, you might close campus down. And I'm going to fine the students who did it, and I'm going to suspend them. And that began today with 23 students getting suspension letters being identified in those videos.

Look, forever, since there's been colleges, administrators have been telling students that the way they party is dangerous to their health. But now with COVID, it's a whole different dimension, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Look, Michigan State closed just two weeks before classes were set to resume, and they went to online learning. So that threat from the president is something that a lot of other students should focus on, because they don't want to have classes closed as well. Evan McMorris-Santoro, thank you so much. I'll see you on the education beat this week.

Many schools around the country are welcoming students back into classrooms, but some have had to quickly change course as coronavirus spread among students. Ahead, an emergency room doctor and professor joins me to explain what schools should do differently.

And next, one of Vladimir Putin's biggest critics apparently poisoned. He's just the latest opponent of the Russian leader to fall ill under suspicious circumstances. We'll take you live to Moscow coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:56]

GOLODRYGA: Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny is now in a German hospital after being airlifted out of Russia overnight. He has been in a coma since falling ill on a flight earlier this week. CNN's Matthew Chance is in Moscow. And Matthew, his supporters and spokesperson says he was poisoned. What are doctors saying?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so far doctors in Russia, the ones we've had statements from before he was evacuated this morning, have said they found no traces of poison in his system before he was sent to the clinic in Germany this morning.

But there, doctors are working hard, first of all, to save his life, and secondly, to try and work out what it was that caused one of the Kremlin's most outspoken critics to fall so sick so suddenly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: In Russia, the price of opposition can be painfully high. The groans from Alexey Navalny as medics evacuated him from this commercial flight, forced to make an emergency landing when he was suddenly taken ill. A fellow passenger recorded the anticorruption campaigner appearing unconscious, being stretchered into an ambulance on the tarmac outside. Russian doctors say they found no evidence of poisoning.

But Navalny's wife and his supporters insist there's a cover-up, and that delays to his evacuation from Siberia to Germany for medical treatment were an attempt to hide the truth.

YULIA NAVALNAYA, ALEXEY NAVALNY'S WIFE (through translator): We certainly believe that he was made to make sure that a chemical substance that was in Alexey's body was dissolved. That is why he was not handed over, to make sure the particles of this substance will dissolve. CHANCE: The hospital says that's not true, and that it's worried about

his clinical state. Navalny certainly knew the risks. More than any other opposition figure in Russia, he got ordinary people out to protest, with an unrelenting campaign to highlight corruption, challenging the Kremlin, making enemies. In Russia, that's dangerous.

A man appeared with a gun and shot her three times in the chest and once --

Over years now, Russia has gained an appalling reputation for silencing critics. This was me in 2006, reporting on a killing of Anna Politkovskaya, one of the journalists most critical of Russian President Vladimir Putin's policies. She was gunned down in her Moscow apartment block.

Shortly afterwards, Alexander Litvinenko. In 2015, Russian's leading opposition politician, Boris Nemtsov, was shot and killed as he walked over a bridge near the Kremlin with his girlfriend. More recently in 2018, a sleepy corner of England was shocked when a military grade nerve agent was used to poison a former Russian spy, Sergei Skripal, and his daughter Yulia. In all the cases, the Kremlin has denied any involvement.

[14:20:06]

It isn't accepting any connection to the sudden Navalny sickness either, but for the moment at least, yet another outspoken Kremlin critic has been silenced.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Bianna, over the next couple of days we are expecting some updates from Germany on the condition of Alexey Navalny, but there's also been relief expressed in the meantime by his supporters that at least he's out of Russia and can be focused on in terms of getting him back to his full health. Also, they're hoping that some light can be shed by German doctors when they finally examine him thoroughly as to why he's there in the first place, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Hopefully we can get some answers and he can recover. Hearing his audio there groaning is just a punch in the gut. Matthew Chance, thank you so much.

I want to talk more about this with Garry Kasparov. He's a former world chess champion and the chairman of the Human Rights Foundation and has been a longtime critic of Vladimir Putin and the Russian government. Garry, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate your time today.

Let me begin. There has been a debate over whether Putin ordered this and questions as to why he would do it given that many believe that murdering Navalny would hurt Putin more than benefit him. But to me, this seems to negate a larger issue, which is that regardless of who ordered this, it reveals that assassination is an active part of governing in Russia. Would you agree with that? GARRY KASPAROV, CHAIRMAN, HUMAN RIGHTS FOUNDATION: Absolutely. It's a

chilling story told my Matthew Chance a couple of minutes ago giving all these names. And as for the case of Navalny, of course he was poisoned, and of course it is Putin. I say this with confidence not because I also oppose Putin, or because I have inside information, but because the evidence is obvious and overwhelming. There is no benefit of the doubt for a known murderer. Putin's enemies have been poisoned, dying of blunt force heart attacks, or being gunned down. I believe in coincidences, but I also believe in the KGB, and asking why would Putin bother helps the Kremlin propaganda liars. Putin critics keep dying, keep being poisoned. It's a murderous mafia regime, and trying to find reasons and excuses for Putin is disgusting.

GOLODRYGA: And I just know every time I talk to you, unfortunately, it's after one of your friends happens to be in the crosshairs of Vladimir Putin, Boris Nemtsov, the list goes on and on. But you have been vocal for years now on the need for more western leaders to speak up and basically reassess their relationship with Russia given Putin's actions time and time again.

Now, perhaps European leaders could do more, but at least they're speaking out about it. Germany is now treating Navalny. But I want to play for you what President Trump, meantime, has said about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Navalny, the Russian opposition leader who was hospitalized, and they think he was poisoned. Is that the U.S. government's determination?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We haven't seen it yet. We're looking at it, and Mike is going to be reporting to me soon, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: That's it. That's it, Garry. Three seconds. We haven't seen anything. Mike is going to get back to me.

KASPAROV: Outrageous. Many Republican senators, like Marco Rubio, tweeted about this attempted murder, and they had no doubt that Navalny was poisoned and it was Putin who was behind it. And by the way, I tweeted back saying to senator, perhaps you know someone who can tell it to President Trump.

GOLODRYGA: Perhaps it could be you.

KASPAROV: Yes, look, yes. But we should probably ask why now, because it's more relevant. It reflects the evolution of the dictatorship. Putin just completed changes to the Russian constitution, making it official that he can be dictator for life. And he does not need even a symbolic opposition figure. He feels all powerful, immune. He can interfere in the elections of the world's only super power successfully and pay no penalty.

He can invade Ukraine and next Crimea, carpet bomb Syria, prop up dictators in Venezuela and Belarus. He can murder his enemies in London, Berlin, Moscow. And until the free world decides to unite and stand up to him, he will continue. So Putin regime must be treated as a rogue regime.

It is. And no more letters of reconciliation, a policy of reset, and no more economic cooperation. And of course, we need someone in the White House who will take Putin seriously and will stop playing these silly games.

GOLODRYGA: And yet there are reports the president wants to meet and have a summit, perhaps, with Vladimir Putin in the coming months.

Let me ask you, Garry. It has become clear that any opponent, to go with what you just said about Putin feeling emboldened, any opponent of the Kremlin is not only a target in Russia, but in Europe as well. The cases of Litvinenko and the Skripals, just to name a few. But do you now worry, given President Trump's reaction, that even opponents living in America could face risks to their lives as well?

[14:25:04]

KASPAROV: If you are opposing Putin, you face risk anywhere in the world, so even in the United States. But, again, we all hope that in a few months there will be a change of guard in the Oval Office and America will go back as the world leader, and Putin will be treated the gangster he is.

GOLODRYGA: And quickly, let me ask you about Belarus. So much focus now is on what Putin ends up doing and the role he may play. How do you see this playing out?

KASPAROV: It's quite a unique situation, because we had this election that Lukashenko wanted to turn into a charade, but it ended up with 80 percent of people voting for a woman that was not in politics three months ago. She joined because her husband was arrested.

And it was a vote against Lukashenko. So we know how exactly that 80 percent of the country is opposing him. And the only reason Lukashenko is still in the office is because Putin is behind him, and we have enough information to prove that Russian officers and also journalists, they are all filling up vacant positions in Belarus, helping Lukashenko to survive.

GOLODRYGA: Well, Garry Kasparov, I could talk to you about this for hours, but for now we'll have to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us, and let's hope for a speedy recovery for Alexey Navalny. Thank you.

KASPAROV: Yes, hopefully next time we'll talk about something nicer. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: I hope so. Maybe chess.

And we'll be right back.

(LAUGHTER) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:59]

GOLODRYGA: First year students at Florida Atlantic University are moving into campus dorm rooms right now. Parents telling CNN that they are feeling comforted by protocols in place at the school, with some in-person classes set to begin on Monday. This as the school's football team pauses practices after three players tested positive for COVID-19.

Joining me now to discuss is Dr. Darria Long, a clinical assistant professor at the University of Tennessee and an emergency physician. Doctor, thanks so much for joining me. You say that schools should behave as if everyone could have COVID, and then protect everyone accordingly. What advice would you give Florida Atlantic specifically?

DR. DARRIA LONG, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: Yes, Bianna, that's something I say working in the emergency department, is I behave as if all of my patients could have COVID, and I protect myself and them accordingly.

I'm telling all the schools that I advise that we want initial hypervigilance, because we want schools to be able to, not just open, but to be able to stay open. And so we need to throw everything we can in terms of all the guidelines and protections initially to be able to keep schools open. Then we can start to get data and we can start to see what works and what may not be so high yield, and eventually start to dial it back. But if we do the opposite and we just open the floodgates, let everybody in, we'll eventually just be shutting down after two weeks, we'll have no data to make decisions, and we'll be right back where we started.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And I think a lot of these schools thought, listen, we're prepared, we have enough testing. But they didn't realize that what happens just a few days once school begins, all of a sudden you have new cases and they don't know what to do and how to trace them.

Let me ask you what the football players in particular at Florida Atlantic, and they've been tested weekly since they began their training on campus. Could colleges and universities have more routine testing available for the entire student body? There's a big debate about tuition and campus fees. Could this be included in that?

LONG: I think testing is a very key component. You said it, Bianna, testing isn't the only component. You do testing, and then you all the other things together. We do this big layer of protection, but testing is really key, whether it's pooled testing or randomized testing.

That's what I'm telling a lot of the schools that I'm advising and that's really key to start to know if how all the other protocols we're doing, how they're performing in terms of keeping the infection limited and being able to rapidly identify positive cases and then rapidly isolate them and isolate any positive contacts.

GOLODRYGA: There's a lot more reporting on pool testing, and perhaps a hopeful study out of Israel, too, on more sophisticated pool testing. But the CDC has just released updated guidelines, as you know, on reopening schools, talking about K through 12 as well, and they're emphasizing the importance of keeping schools open when possible.

I'm going to ask this question again. I feel like we ask it every week. Can schools safely stay open for in-person classes even after just a small outbreak? Can it be contained?

LONG: So Bianna, this is a great question because there's nuance. Schools have to know, we all have to know as a community, whatever your disease prevalence is in the community, it's going to walk into your school. We can't expect schools to do a miracle and erase COVID when the community cannot.

But the point is, one isolated student walking into the school with COVID or another isolated case over here, those don't themselves mean the school has to shut down. Those mean that the school needs to work on mitigating transmission and rapidly and identifying. But that's very different.

Schools, we don't want them to become amplification vectors. So again, one case here, one case there, not a big deal. But if those cases start to amplify COVID in our community, that's when we see that something is going wrong and we need to add in more protocols, because we cannot just do this partway again.

GOLODRYGA: Unfortunately, we can't all live in an NBA bubble, right. That would just be too costly, but it's something that seems to be working. But for now, we just want to keep the numbers as low as possible in the community. Dr. Darria Long, thank you so much.

LONG: Right, and there are other ways we can do it, so many layers. Thank you so much, Bianna. Have a great day.

GOLODRYGA: Thank you. You, too.

Some colleges are only allowing students to take classes online, so should they pay full tuition when they're not even on campus?

[14:35:02]

Two economists, two university professors, they're going to join me next to talk about this on the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Many college students will not be back in the classroom this fall. So some are wondering why they and their families have to pay full tuition for less of a college experience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHREYA PATEL, STUDENT, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: So we kind of find out on their website, on their frequently asked questions, it said will we be getting a refund, and they said no. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Shreya Patel launched her petition to lower

tuition fees at Rutgers University in July, the New Jersey university had just announced that most of its fall classes would be conducted online.

PATEL: It just doesn't make sense to be paying such a high amount for something that's not being used to full advantage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nearly 31,000 signatures later, she's created a movement for other frustrated students like Jenny (ph) Subramanian (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I think the biggest thing is a lack of transparency. We don't know where this money is going.

[14:40:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pressure from nearly half of the student body ultimately led the school to cut campus fees for the semester by 15 percent, not enough says Jenny (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tuition reduction would be great, but fees are what we are paying for. And if we're not going to be here, then what's the point?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Experts like Scott Galloway, himself a university professor, believes students are right to be outraged.

SCOTT GALLOWAY, PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: The universities have backed themselves into a corner, and that is we have raised tuition two-and-a-half fold over the last 20 years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than 75 percent of the country's 5,000 colleges and universities are expected to be partially or fully online this fall, and some are joining Rutgers in discounting fees. Williams College is dropping tuition by 15 percent, Johns Hopkins, Princeton, Georgetown, Spelman, and Clark Atlanta University are cutting tuition by 10 percent, while other schools such as USC offer their students living at home grants for those choosing to study from home.

TERRY HARTLE, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, AMERICAN COUNCIL ON EDUCATION: Interestingly enough, some students will be in residence halls at the campus, but their courses will be online.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the majority of schools from state schools like Temple University and the University of Massachusetts system, to elite private schools like Harvard and Stanford, are keeping tuition as is.

Are you surprised that we haven't seen more offer a small tuition reduction?

HARTLE: I think universities have handled this about as well as they could possibly have handled it. Universities have to balance their budgets. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Terry Hartle, an advocate for higher education,

says ever since COVID-19 universities have lost millions.

HARTLE: Every institution of higher education in the country has suffered losses, room and board, international students, the hotels, the bookstore. All of those have just largely disappeared.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Experts also say higher education institutions are better equipped for online learning than K through 12 schools, which could help drive down tuition costs.

GALLOWAY: It is time to lower costs and move education back to the way it used to be.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But millions of college students like Shreya still feel deprived of campus life and depleted in their bank account.

PATEL: I don't think the financial well-being of $1 billion institution should be compared to the students who are severely struggling.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: I want to bring in Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers. Betsy is a professor of economics and public policy at the University of Michigan and a former member of the president's council on economic advisers under President Obama. Justin Wolfers is also a professor of economics and public policy at the University of Michigan. Welcome both of you again. I always look forward to this segment.

Betsey, let me begin with you. The University of Michigan is set to reopen for in-person classes August 31st. You've seen what's been happening across campuses throughout the country. Michigan State recently moved its fall semester back online just weeks before students were set to return. How do you feel about coming back?

BETSEY STEVENSON, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Oh, that's a tough question. Look, I think we're seeing some not very good outcomes as campuses are bringing students back. I think the problem is that we all thought we would be in a really different place with the virus and with testing right now than we actually are.

Three or four months ago we thought we would have plenty of tests. The thing that did make me the most nervous is to know that we don't really have enough tests in Ann Arbor to be able to test anybody except for really symptomatic students or ones we know have had prolonged contact with people with symptoms.

So we're going to see a lot of invisible spread. I think that's definitely going to happen, so I am a little bit concerned about how we're going to be able to keep that under control.

GOLODRYGA: And Justin, I've been listening to yours and Betsey's fantastic podcast, "How to Think Like an Economist," and I want to talk about cost/benefit analysis, because, as you heard from that segment, there are students questioning whether they should be paying the same tuition that somebody who went to school on campus and got to do all the things that we were able to do without wearing masks and go to parties and have the full experience, should they be paying the same tuition as somebody who is logging in online?

JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Look, I think they're really good and they're really important questions. The one thing I hope doesn't get lost along the way is whether going to college is still a good decision for many students. It's easy to say that the college life is going to be different this semester, and in many ways worse. But as economists we always ask ourselves, or what, what is the opportunity cost.

And in a normal year instead of going to college, you might take a gap year or you might go and get work. This year neither of those look like appealing opportunities or possibilities. And so as people think about this decision, whether to return to campus, maybe I think there's a strong argument for still coming back to campus. It's not a great one. It might be the least bad option that young people have this year.

STEVENSON: You mean not coming back to campus, but actually studying and going to university, whether it's online or not.

[14:45:5]

And let me -- as an economist, so we're going to say, look, tuition, you just heard the pros and cons of changing tuition, but one thing to cheer students up is the opportunity cost has fallen. So when we think about what it is you pay to go to school, it's both the tuition and what you give up. And now you're giving up less. So there's some kind of upside going on there.

GOLODRYGA: And, Betsey, in terms of you being this optimist, as I've been following you over the past couple of months, just in the creativity that teachers and educators have brought to online learning, there have been some bumps in the road for K through 12.

What I'm hearing from experts is that things are different along college lines, that universities are used to and familiar with online instruction, and, thus, there won't be a decline in the quality of online instruction that perhaps there's some worry about in K through 12. Would you agree with that? What do you tell parents and students who worry that they may not be getting the same education online?

STEVENSON: I think this has been a big kick in the pants to all professors and college-level instructors, that they have got to really up their game in how they're teaching. I've never seen faculty work as hard as they've worked over the summer to try to be ready for the fall, to say am I going to be offering something that students want to consume.

You mentioned Justin and I have a new podcast. It's a teaching podcast. We're trying to think about different ways to communicate information to our students. I can't tell you the number of different platforms I've investigated that will help bring students together, because one of the things they're missing on campus is learning from each other. So I'm trying to make sure that I can foster that engaged learning, learning from each other in the best way possible.

So I do think we're working really hard to bring students as a really good experience, and I think these investments are actually going to pay off even when we're all back in the classroom. I think that I'm learning tools for teaching that will benefit not just next year's students but students down the line.

GOLODRYGA: Giving them more skills. Finally, Justin, let me ask you quickly about the stalled stimulus bill. It was two weeks ago that President Trump introduced his executive order announcing that unemployment -- unemployed Americans would receive $400 a week. Now they're offering $300. What do you make of this? And I guess, more importantly, what will the impact be for millions of Americans?

WOLFERS: When we write the history of this pandemic and this recession, we'll write that August was the month that we decided to do nothing except sit around and debate the constitutionality of a president's stunt at the last moment. Look, 30 million people are still on jobless rolls. The recovery seems to have stalled, and Congress is on recess and it doesn't look like anything is moving forward at the moment. It's depressing.

GOLODRYGA: I hate to leave on a depressing note, but Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers, we'll have to leave it there. I would log on and take your classes online any day. So thank you.

WOLFERS: We'll see you next year.

GOLODRYGA: Have a great weekend.

STEVENSON: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Protesters are back on the streets of Portland today. In the early hours of this morning police there broke up one protest with smoke and flashbang grenades after calling it a riot. A live report from Portland is coming up next. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

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GOLODRYGA: Protesters are once again gathering on the streets of Portland, Oregon, today. This after Portland police declared a riot last night when crowds outside a police precinct refused to disperse. Officers did not use teargas, instead deploying smoke and flashbangs to break up the protestors.

Friday night marked the 19th time police have declared a riot in the city since protests broke out two-and-a-half months ago. Police say they have arrested 500 people since May 29th. CNN's Omar Jimenez is in Portland. And Omar, two-and-a-half months of protests, are there any signs of this slowing down?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At this point there really are no signs of this slowing down. As you mentioned, last night was the 19th time we had seen a riot declared. And what we're seeing beginning to unfold now is a rally that is set to start in just about 10 minutes or so, and these are really clashes of two different sets of protesters.

These here with the American flags waving have billed themselves as, quote-unquote, patriots who say it's time to take this country back. And some of them have come armed themselves with assault rifles and we have seen. And they are expected to be met over the course of this with at least some antifascist or Antifa counter-demonstrators as well over the course of when this actually begins, again, in just about 10 minutes or so.

One of the major concerns that people have had, including city officials, was that there's a similar rally that happened last weekend in just this area, which has really been the focal point of a lot of these protests outside the federal courthouse here.

But it was a similar rally last week where live gunshots did go off as our affiliate reported, and at least one person was arrested as a result. And it is those exact possibilities that have many officials concerned with how this could end up this afternoon, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: I can see that. How are these protests different from what we saw a few weeks ago when federal agents were there?

JIMENEZ: Well, last night specifically, a lot of the clashes that we saw were between protesters and the Portland Police Bureau, the local police here.

What we had seen in the previous weeks was right here in this area outside the federal courthouse, clashing with federal law enforcement who say they were trying to protect the actual infrastructure of the building. And even earlier this week we saw some of these demonstrations happening outside the Immigration and Customs Enforcement building where it was a combination of federal law enforcement and the local police who eventually cleared the area as well.

[14:55:08]

So both organizations at the local and federal level seem to be working under modified tactics to try and contain what is set to now be an 87th day in a row of protests here in Portland. Bianna?

GOLODRYGA: You can hear things building up behind you. Omar, please stay safe, and thank you so much for your reporting.

And thank you so much for joining me. I'm Bianna Golodyrga. CNN NEWSROOM continues with Ana Cabrera in just a moment.

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