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Alexei Navalny Taken to Germany for Treatment; CDC Chief: Expect U.S. Death Rate to Start Dropping; European Countries Report Spike in COVID-19 Cases; Beijing Removes Mask Mandate for Outdoors; Kim Jong-un Delegating Some Powers to Sister; Democratic National Convention Filled with Personal Stories; What to Expect from Republican Convention. Aired 2-2:45a ET

Aired August 22, 2020 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): An air ambulance carrying stricken Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny expected to touch down in Germany shortly.

A new study predicts the coronavirus could kill 310,000 Americans by December. Experts say that number could be cut by almost 70,000 if people just wore masks.

Later in the program, a rare look inside of the corridors of power in the Hermit Kingdom. We look at how Kim Jong-un's sister has emerged as a North Korean de facto second-in-command.

Hello, welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. I am Michael Holmes.

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HOLMES: Welcome, everyone.

Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny expected to land in Berlin this hour. His wife had to fight Russian doctors, who, she says, we're trying to block his transfer out of the country. Navalny's spokeswoman said his wife is traveling alongside him aboard this medical aircraft.

The anti-corruption activist became ill on flight to Moscow a few days ago from another Russian city. His spokeswoman said he was likely poisoned and is now in a coma. The way the Russian doctors and police have handled this case is adding to the suspicion as CNN's Matthew Chance explains.

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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Russia, the price of opposition can be painfully high. The groans from Alexei Navalny as medics evacuated him from this commercial flight, forced to make an emergency landing, when he was suddenly taken ill. A fellow passenger recorded the anti-corruption campaigner

unconscious, stretchered on an ambulance on the tarmac outside. Russian doctors say they found no evidence of poisoning.

But Navalny's wife and his supporters insist there is a cover-up and that delays to his evacuation from Siberia, to Germany, for medical treatment, were an attempt to hide the truth.

YULIA NAVALNY, ALEXEI'S WIFE (through translator): We certainly believe that it was to make sure that a chemical substance put in Alexei's body will dissolve. That is why he is not being handed over, to make sure the particles of this substance will dissolve.

CHANCE (voice-over): The hospital says that is not true and that it is worried about his clinical state.

Navalny certainly knew the risks, more than any other opposition figure in Russia, he got ordinary people out to protest with an unrelenting campaign to highlight corruption, challenging the Kremlin and making enemies. In Russia, that is dangerous.

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CHANCE: A man appeared with a gun and shot her three times in the chest.

CHANCE (voice-over): Over years now, Russia has gained an appalling reputation for silencing critics. This was me in 2006 reporting on the killing of Anna Politkovskaya, one of the journalists most critical of Russian president Vladimir Putin's policies. She was gunned down in her Moscow apartment block.

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CHANCE (voice-over): Shortly afterwards, Alexander Litvinenko, also critical of the Kremlin, suffered a slow, agonizing death, after being poisoned with a radioactive isotope in London.

In 2015, Russia's leading opposition politician, Boris Nemtsov, was shot and killed as he walked over a bridge near the Kremlin with his girlfriend.

More recently, in 2018, a sleepy corner of England was shocked when a military grade nerve agent was used to poison a former Russian spy, Sergei Skripal, and his daughter, Yulia.

In all the cases, the Kremlin has denied any involvement. It isn't accepting any connection to the sudden Navalny sickness, either. But for the moment, at least, yet another outspoken Kremlin critic has been silenced -- Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.

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HOLMES: As Matthew mentioned in the report, this is not the first time Russia has been suspected of using poison to try and silence its critics. In 2006, former Russian agent Alexander Litvinenko, who was mentioned

in Matthew's story, died of radioactive poisoning. Polonium 210 had been put into his tea. His widow, Marina, spoke to CNN's Hala Gorani about what she would say to Alexei Navalny and his wife.

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MARINA LITVINENKO, ALEXANDER LITVINENKO'S WIDOW: I can just wish the best, to heal and be very, very strong. What is important to Yulia, to his wife, of course, who I don't know -- and I would be very happy to directly (INAUDIBLE) all of my support to say never give up. Try everything that is possible to save the life of your husband.

It is very important they have friends. But it is different compared to me. I was in the U.K. And you will be supported anyway. Of course, it is a difficult situation. And what happened to my husband was not discovered immediately. And I hope, in Russia, it will uncover what happened to Alexei.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Alexei Navalny's condition has many world leaders concerned. But so far, the U.S. president, Donald Trump, has said very little about it. All he has said about the Russian opposition leader was that his secretary of state was looking into it and that the U.S. has not determined if he was poisoned or not.

The Democratic presidential candidate, Joe Biden, on the other hand, writes, quote, "Donald Trump continues to cozy up to Russia while Putin persecutes civil society and journalists."

He added that, quote, "unlike Trump," he will defend Democratic values and stand up to autocrats like Putin.

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HOLMES: Turning our attention now to the coronavirus pandemic, the death toll in the United States has surpassed 175,000, with more than 5.6 million cases and no end in sight.

Nearly half of the 50 states are seeing an uptick in the rate of new deaths. At the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, predicting around 20,000 more deaths in the next three weeks.

Friday, the CDC issued new guidelines for schools on reopening and how to keep children safe amid growing concerns about the spread of the virus among students.

Researchers behind a respected forecasting model say that the final weeks of 2020 could be even more grim in the U.S., unless more people mask up and are held accountable. Dr. Chris Murray from the University of Washington told CNN, 6,000 people, a day, could die from the virus, by December, in a worst-case scenario. About 1,000 people are dying a day now. He also said that that

scenario can be avoided if government leaders do not relax restrictions. Still, Dr. Murray and his team raised the December death estimate to 310,000, partly, because states like Florida, did not crack down, despite rising numbers of cases.

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DR. CHRISTOPHER MURRAY, INSTITUTE FOR HEALTH METRICS AND EVALUATION: In some states, California is a good example, cases peaked and are coming down but deaths haven't.

We are not completely sure -- they are staying pretty steady. We are seeing upswings in transmission in places like Kentucky, Minnesota, Indiana. So it is a sort of general pattern. There is more happening with COVID than we expected for this time of year.

That is playing out into these forecasts as we go into the fall when we expect transmission to go up for a variety of reasons.

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HOLMES: Joining me now, Dr. Carlos del Rio, executive associate dean of Emory University School of Medicine.

Good to see you, Doctor. The numbers are depressingly high in the U.S. The overall case counts are dropping in many areas, hopefully, declining deaths to follow.

I wonder, do you fear a risk of complacency leading to more spikes down the road?

These are still high numbers.

DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, EMORY UNIVERSITY: They are still very high numbers, Michael. We have come down from around 100,000 cases a day to about 50,000 cases a day. That is still very high.

We want to be below the 20,000 cases a day area. I worry about complacency as you say. I also worry about the opening of schools and colleges. Young people getting infected.

And again, going back to where we were at 100,000 cases a day. So we have to not drop our guard. We have to continue to remind people to wear masks, to social distance, to wash your hands. If we do not do that, we will again have a spike in cases.

We are pleased to, also, see a drop in hospitalizations, to tell you the truth. We were getting overwhelmed in hospitals, so it is nice to see hospitalizations also coming down.

HOLMES: I wanted to see your take on the vaccine landscape. Johnson & Johnson entering phase 3 trials, the Russian vaccine, a lot of experts worried about that in terms of safety protocols. [02:10:00]

HOLMES: The vice president in the meantime, advertising a miracle literally.

What are your thoughts when you look at what's coming down the pike?

DEL RIO: Michael, there are no miracles here. We have, as scientists, to work very hard to find a cure and to find a vaccine. The research is happening. And I told lot of people, a lot of things have not worked well in this country.

But the research, infrastructure and research environment has worked extremely well. I think that we found a new virus, it was sequenced and within 65 days of finding a new virus, you had a vaccine administered to humans and within 6 months, less than 6 months, we are in phase 3 trials.

There are eight vaccines in phase 3 trials. I'm convinced that by the beginning of next year we will have one vaccine that will have shown efficacy. So research is the way out. It's not called a miracle, it's called research.

HOLMES: We heard the CDC's Dr. Redfield talking about T cell immunity and survivors, also talking about the potential of partial herd community, keeping COVID under control in places, like New York, New Jersey.

Is that heartening or given what we don't know about immunity in the recovered, is it risky to take hope in such talk?

DEL RIO: We know a couple of things about immunity. It seems clear that if you've had this infection, you are protected from getting it afterwards, from subsequent infections, at least for some period of time, we don't know how long.

We also know of a certain degree of T cell immunity. So in fact, yes, we are seeing some immunity in the population but to get to herd immunity, we would need to have 4-5 times the number of people we have infected.

With the number we do have infected in the U.S., which is roughly around 10 percent of the population, we already have close to 200,000 people who are dead. So with 60 percent of the population, multiply 10 percent, by six, you would need over 1 million people dead. That to me is a disaster. We cannot get there.

HOLMES: Goodness me, that is a long way to herd immunity, a long and costly way.

Finally, what do you make of the flu vaccine news?

Will it be a stronger shot for 65 and older?

How does seasonal flu how complicate the fight against COVID? DEL RIO: The flu always comes in the winter in the Northern Hemisphere and we always have to take action, like always recommend to people to get a flu shot. And people over 65, we now have an enhanced flu shot, a stronger flu shot because people over 65 don't respond as well. They respond better to this enhanced flu shot.

But am pretty confident that we -- if we give the flu shot to people and then continue wearing masks and socially distancing and washing our hands, we will not see much of a flu season.

In the Southern Hemisphere, that just ended their winter, there was almost no flu as people were trying to protect themselves from COVID. COVID is a lot more infectious than the flu. So the things we are doing to protect us from COVID, actually protect us from the flu.

HOLMES: Good way of putting it. Dr. Carlos Del Rio, always a pleasure thanks for joining us.

DEL RIO: Delighted to be with you, Michael.

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HOLMES: A quick break here. When we come back, new coronavirus cases rising in Europe. Health officials in Spain say that the epidemic is out of control in parts of the country. What officials are doing to try and stop that second wave.

Also, Beijing letting its guard down a little, telling people they can drop masks outside. We will explain why when we come back.

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HOLMES: Welcome back.

Let's take a look at how cases are spreading around the world. We will show you a map.

You can see many European countries are seeing steady numbers of new cases or more new cases this week than last. Several countries trying to crack down before a second wave begins. Anna Stewart tells us more.

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ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Cases of COVID-19 have been trending higher in Europe. The continent has reported, on average, 26,000 new cases a day since lockdown measures were eased. That is according to the World Health Organization.

They say Europe now accounts for 17 percent of global cases of coronavirus. On Friday, the European Center for Disease Control said that Spain had the highest rate of infection in Europe. Spain's director of health emergency says the virus is out of control in some parts of the country.

In addition to Spain, this week, Germany, Italy, France, Croatia and Poland all recorded their highest daily increase in new cases since their lockdowns were lifted some weeks or months ago.

The WHO have attributed the surge of new cases of COVID-19 in Europe to relaxation in public health measures but also, a reduced compliance when it comes to social distancing in some countries.

Different countries are introducing different measures to try and limit the spread of the virus. In some, it is now mandatory to get a test on arrival at an airport or a train station.

Others like the U.K. are focusing more on quarantining those traveling in from countries they deem to be of a higher risk. Wearing a face mask has become mandatory in many country in Europe, indoors and also in some outdoor scenarios. Lockdown measures have been reimposed in areas called virus hotspots.

All of this designed to try and ensure that the sharp increase in cases does not develop any further, to become a second wave of coronavirus in Europe -- Anna Stewart, CNN, London.

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HOLMES: The number of infections recorded in Beijing is dropping, as a matter of fact. No new cases for 13 conservative days. So officials are starting to relax some mask requirements. Beijing now free to remove their masks outdoors, although not everyone is doing so. The number of new cases are going down, too. Selena Wang joins me now from Hong Kong.

Better news for China than any number of any other countries?

SELENA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is a strong signal that Beijing thinks it can continue to report zero new cases. People in Beijing no longer have to wear masks outdoors, as long as they are not coming into close contact with others. That is according to new government regulations.

Michael, remember, months ago, back in June, the capital was struggle to deal with the outbreak linked to that wholesale market. The city immediately rolled out targeted lockdown measures as well as a massive testing regime.

Live has virtually returned to normal. As you can see from the scenes, though, despite the relaxing of these restrictions, many people do continue to wear those masks. Some say it makes them feel safe; others say it is because they are not sure if it's socially acceptable yet to go mask free.

Take a listen to what this 24-year-old Beijing resident had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I think I can take off my mask anytime. But I will need to see if others accept it because I am afraid that people will be scared if they see me not wearing a mask. But usually, when I'm running, I'm not wearing one.

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WANG: When I was in Beijing, just a few weeks ago, masks were being enforced in outdoor areas, malls, office buildings, even in pre-COVID times, masks were still a common sight in China, especially on those heavily polluted days.

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WANG: What we're seeing right now in China is in stark contrast to the surge in cases around Asia.

HOLMES: Selena, thank you, Selena Wang from Hong Kong.

Quick break. When we come back, more protests expected in Belarus although the president says he will stop the unrest. We have the latest fallout from the country's disputed election, when we come back.

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HOLMES: Belarus' main opposition leader says she won't seek the presidency again if new elections are held. Svetlana Tikhanovskaya fled to neighboring Lithuania after the disputed August 9th election. She is calling for more workers to strike in protest. But as CNN's Fred Pleitgen reports, embattled president Alexander Lukashenko is pushing back.

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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): A human chain to demand change. The opposition was out in force again, Friday night, in Minsk, calling for new elections and an end to longtime dictator Alexander Lukashenko's rule.

PLEITGEN: Belarus' opposition is trying to maintain the momentum it has been gaining over the last couple of days. At the same time, the Alexander Lukashenko is trying to reassert himself and his grip on this country.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): From her exile in Lithuania, the opposition leader called on those organizing strikes to pressure the government not to back down.

SVETLANA TIKHANOVSKAYA, BELARUSIAN OPPOSITION POLITICIAN (through translator): Strikes are an absolutely lethal and powerful weapon against the regime. They know it and therefore they intimidate you. PLEITGEN (voice-over): But in many places, the government's tactics

seem to be working. We went to Soligorsk, home to Belarus' giant potassium mines, a key export. Many workers had been striking here but when we arrived, only a few were left.

Most, back at work, after threats from management, they said. The mine's management did not respond to CNN's effort seeking comment.

"The strike is over now," this worker says. The "production is back on. And that's pretty much it. Each worker was called in for a talk. They talked to them very comprehensively, several times."

Alexander Lukashenko himself basked in loyalist support as he visited a chicken schnitzel factory on Friday. He now openly claims that the U.S. and Europe are instigating and steering the uprising and says he will bring it to an end soon.

"Does she look like a president?" Lukashenko said.

"You saw. Now they admit they didn't have a program, nothing. They had nothing and they want to get in, riding a wave of emotions. But they failed."

At the village, known for staunch Lukashenko support, we got a less than warm welcome when we asked about the challenge to his rule.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Why are you sticking your nose into Belarus?

What do you need?

What?

Leave, Satan.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Lukashenko supporters are also coming out, putting on their own rallies, praising the longtime leader as he tries to dance around his challengers and maintain his iron grip on power in Belarus -- Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Belarus.

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HOLMES: Now to a shift in power in the Hermit Kingdom.

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HOLMES: North Korean leader Kim Jong-un's sister has emerged as his de facto second in command. That is according to South Korea's spy agency.

But just who is Kim Yo Jong?

CNN's Paula Hancocks profiles a possible successor in North Korea's dynasty of dictators.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kim Yo Jong started her public life in the shadows. In charge of propaganda for her brother, Kim Jong-un, carefully crafting his image, confidently directing events from behind the scenes.

Two years ago, she shot to domestic and global prominence, representing her brother at the PyeongChang Winter Olympics, the embodiment of North Korea's sudden and, it turns out, brief, charm offensive.

CHOI MOON-SOON, GANGWON PROVINCE GOVERNOR: She was very calm, herself very majestic woman, a woman of a few words. But she said something, she uses exact language and precise words.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): She is considered Kim Jong-un's most trusted aide. Crucially, in a country controlled by one brutal dynasty, she is family, promotions within the party and this summer becoming the public face of anger against South Korea.

The demolition of the liaison office in June, a symbol of inter-Korean cooperation ordered in her name, built up Kim's credentials as someone who can be tough against the enemy and someone who can command the military on her brother's behalf.

Kim Jong-un, appearing to be happy to sit back, allowing his sister to play bad cop. The head of South Korea's intelligence agency has dealt with North Korea for decades. He met her four times and said she is confident beyond her years.

PARK JIE-WON, HEAD OF SOUTH KOREAN INTELLIGENCE SERVICE (voice-over): From the beginning, I always saw her as a clear number 2. By making that statement, she was officially announced as number 2 so that North Korean public can understand as well.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): The NIS told lawmakers they believe Kim Jong-un has gone one step further, delegating more responsibilities to his sister, to ease his stress but not openly naming her as a successor.

This lawmaker says that Kim Jong-un still holds absolute power but has turned over a bit more of his authority compared to the past.

HANCOCKS: She has been described her brother's alter ego or even, a possible successor. What is clear at this point, though, she is considered to be the second in command and has promised South Korea that the current retaliation is just the beginning-- Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.

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HOLMES: When we come back, Joe Biden wrapping up an unprecedented virtual Democratic convention with a career-defining speech.

What can we expect in rebuttal from Republicans next week?

We discuss after the break.

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HOLMES: We are expecting the Russian dissident Alexei Navalny to land in Berlin any moment now to receive medical care.

He became ill on a flight to Moscow a few days ago. His wife has been fighting to get him treated outside of Russia ever since.

His spokeswoman says he was likely poisoned and he is in a coma. Navalny is one of the Russian president's most vocal critics. There have been several similar cases in recent years. Let's bring in Phil Black, joining us in London.

Tell us about the journey and what comes next, Phil.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michael, Alexei Navalny's family will be hoping that they got him to Germany, when he arrives in time, firstly, of course, to save his life, to save his quality of life, to give him the medical treatment they believe he needs but also, to get him there in time to find some evidence to try and determine, precisely, what has happened to him or what they believe has been inflicted upon him.

As you touched on, there was something of a thresher to try and get him on the plane and get him out of the country. The doctors that were treating him in Siberia, they maintained he was not fit to fly for a period of time.

His family and his supporters were all of the belief that it was a continued effort to cover up the tracks of whoever tried to do him harm they believe by poisoning him, in the first place. Their theory was that they were delaying his travel to Germany so that whatever poison was in his system would diminish to the point that it would no longer be detectable.

So they got their wish in the end. On the plane, safely. German doctors believe they can transport him safely. I imagine we will get an update on his condition not too long after he arrives.

Then, it will be a long, slow, process in the best case scenario, it seems, for him to recover from whatever very serious condition he has been struck down by.

There is no doubt that across Russia, people who believe in political change, who believe in fighting corruption, who believe in trying to secure a free democracy with their own votes, their hopes and wishes rely very much with the recovering Alexei Navalny.

His position within the Russian opposition movement is so central, so crucial, that without him, it is not an overstatement to say that there is little hope for Russia's opposition without Alexei Navalny in the coming future -- Michael.

HOLMES: Phil Black there in London, we will check in with you as the day progresses there. Thank you so much.

The Democratic vice-presidential nominee, Kamala Harris, is dismissing President Trump's attacks and insults shortly after the Democratic National Convention. She and Joe Biden sat down for their first joint interview, where she accused the president of trying to distract the American people.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump has referred to you as nasty, a sort of madwoman, a disaster, the meanest, most horrible, most disrespectful of anybody in the U.S. Senate.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you define what you hear from the president?

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Listen, I really -- I think that there is so much about what comes out of Donald Trump's mouth that is designed to distract the American people from what he is doing, every day, that is about neglect, negligence and harm to the American people.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And incompetence.

HARRIS: Absolutely. Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Let's dig in on this Democratic convention and what we can expect at next week's Republican convention. I'm delighted to be joined by Mark McKinnon and Bakari Sellers. Bakari, a former Democratic state representative in South Carolina and an attorney. He is also a CNN political commentator.

Mark Mackinnon, former media adviser to the campaigns of president George W. Bush's and the late senator John McCain. Also, the cohost of "The Circus," on the Showtime network. Also writes a weekly column for "The Daily Beast."

Gentlemen, delighted to have you on.

Bakari, let's start with you.

How successful was the virtual setting for the Democrats?

Essentially, they invented a whole new genre out of whole cloth, no easy feat.

Do you think it worked in terms of messaging?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It did work. I was someone who was cautiously optimistic going into this. After four days, I can honestly say that the planners of this, the staffers, the individuals who pulled this off, did a job well done.

A lot of it had to do not just with the elected officials who spoke, who were able to break through the great oratory of people like Michelle Obama, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Kamala Harris but also some of the other stories.

[02:35:00]

SELLERS: The young man who stuttered, who Joe Biden lifted up, the young woman whose mother was deported, who came from a military family. All of these stories about what America is and what America can be were on display.

It was very difficult. I think the Democrats had a great week and were able to pull off something that is a tough feat. I expect Republicans to put on a great show next week as well.

HOLMES: Mark, the president said that it was a, quote, "the darkest, angriest and gloomiest convention in American history."

I guess the broad view of the Biden speech, even among FOX anchors or a lot of them is that it was not Sleepy Joe.

How does that hurt the president's narrative about his challenger?

MARK MCKINNON, FORMER BUSH CAMPAIGN MEDIA ADVISER: Well, part of the problem is that the president really raised the bar on Joe Biden by suggesting he would not be able to put together two sentences -- lowered the bar. So Biden was just able to walk right over it.

Let me talk about the convention generally. I was responsible for planning the 2000 and 2004 conventions. Even then we thought was incredibly anachronistic and that a lot of it should change. We just were not able to just because tradition carried things forward. It was very hard to change it.

Now COVID forced these changes. In the long run, I think most of them were good. I think in almost every way, these conventions was better, it was a high wire act for the Democrats, I give them incredible credit for pulling it off. It had never been done before.

For example, the speeches are much better because you're not in a huge hall with thousands of people who are applauding and giving a standing ovation every other line. It makes the speeches super long and doesn't give them flow or rhythm. They are much more intimate when they are done this way.

I think overall, the convention was really well done, with the exception of a few minor technical things. There could have been a huge disaster. I think the Republicans are a little nervous now looking at what happened.

I bet Donald Trump has been on the phone a lot this last week, burning at is producer to say, you better outdo this. I'm supposed to be the entertainment guy.

HOLMES: Speaking of someone in the television game, technologically, they've done good. That was something difficult to pull off.

Bakari, presidential hyperbole aside, about it being gloomy and all the rest, was it a bit negative?

Perhaps the better question is, was it perhaps a mistake to head off likely GOP talking points addressing violence in cities?

Law and order issues?

Border security and so on?

That is what the Republicans will hammer.

SELLERS: Yes. But I think it is rich for Donald Trump to be talking about this dystopian view, very dark view, which is what he has been giving this country since not only his 2016 convention speech but also his inauguration speech and going forward.

I think what you saw was a sense of urgency from Democrats, even from Hillary Clinton's let's not have another woulda/coulda/shoulda election, to taking Barack Obama taking on Trump head on.

The unique thing about Joe Biden is that he showed you, last night, what a president should be. What a president should look like. He did it without even mentioning Donald Trump's name.

And I find the president's comments about the convention to be somewhat ironic. I expect, next week, to be let me show you what type of despair you'll be in if you elect a Democrat. He doesn't really have a record he can run on. The pandemic has shattered most of that.

HOLMES: It was interesting. The quote he said, basically talking about life under Biden, the presidency, think of the smoldering ruins of Minneapolis, the anarchy of Portland and the bloodstained sidewalks of Chicago and so on, that is all under his watch.

So I don't know what point he was trying to make with that.

Mark, how does Trump make it a blockbuster convention that outshines the DNC?

Broadly speaking, his base is white, old, angry.

What does he have to do next week?

MCKINNON: He needs to remember that elections are about math. They're about addition. Part of the problem I think for the Trump universe is that they get carried away with the enthusiasm of their base, which is, granted, very powerful and very strong.

But Donald Trump needs to have new voters.

If you talk to people, how many are new Trump voters?

There are old Trump voters, people voting for Trump that won't again and you talk to many people who didn't vote Democratic who will this time because on the Democratic side they're adding votes.

But on the Republican side, I think they've got to strategize to energize a base that has diminished over time. It was like when I worked for George W. Bush after we won in 2000. Our pollster said, we get exactly the same number of Hispanic votes next time, we lose because that's a growing demographic. I'm not sure the Trump campaign has recognized they've got to add to the coalition, not just energize the one they have.

[02:40:00]

HOLMES: One thing that Donald Trump is doing is trying to portray Joe Biden and Kamala Harris as massive lefties. The progressives I talk to are massively disappointed with the party platform. No Medicare for all, universal basic income and so on.

Have Democrats done enough to ensure that demographic, which, in many areas, is not energized to back the Democratic establishment, actually votes?

SELLERS: I disagree at the premise that they are not energized. I think there are some people who may be disappointed. However, this still is the most progressive platform we've had in the history of the Democratic Party.

While some may have concerns over Joe Biden and/or Kamala Harris, I think that may be a very loud and vocal minority. We had everyone at this convention, from Bernie Sanders, who gave an eloquent speech about getting on board and supporting this ticket, all the way to John Kasich and Bloomberg and Hagel.

So I think that the theme the Democrats are in disarray, which is usually the case, is not the case this go-around. There may be people who want more. But at the end of the day, Democrats, a unifying force and driving factor is getting rid of Donald Trump.

That is why this week, there was a sense of urgency, as well as a sense of unity. People know the number one thing we have to do is get rid of Donald Trump.

HOLMES: Mark, we just went through Trump was saying about Joe Biden, the presidency. But among other things, he said that Democrats will confiscate your guns give free health care to illegal aliens, force taxpayers to subsidize late-term abortions, , shut down American, energy abolish the suburbs, pretty much none of that is true.

But is he likely to say the same thing next week?

Does that fearmongering work as messaging?

Nobody's going to shut down the suburbs.

MCKINNON: It's working with the base. I was with him yesterday in Scranton, talking about how America will not be America if you elect Joe Biden. It's a very dystopic view of anarchy and chaos. However, it is ironic that he's talking about the anarchy and chaos,

considering it's existing under his presidency. But I think that is the portrait they want to portray. They also want need to flip that deck also to make sure they get back to the message that works for Donald Trump, which is that people do think he is good with the economy.

He still beats Joe Biden by 10 or more points on that perception. But he does have to do it in conjunction with saying he will get a handle on the health crisis because most people see that that is hand in hand. And you can't do one without the other.

HOLMES: Mark McKinnon, Bakari Sellers, appreciate it. Thanks so much to you both.

And thank you for watching, I'm Michael Holmes, "MARKETPLACE AFRICA" is next, see you in 20 minutes.