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Live: Postal Service Hearing; USPS Chief: "No I Will Not" Put Back Removed Postal Machines; USPS Chief: "Outrageous" To Ask If He Compensated Others For Trump Donations. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired August 24, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

PALMER: I just want to point out a "Washington Post" article from August 26, 2015, almost five years to today, that there was a decline in first class letter delivery of 18 to 44 percent and a 38 percent decline in the performance over the same time in 2014.

This was during the Obama-Biden administration.

The United States Post Office in 2012 started closing dozens of mail sorting facilities from January to June of 2015. There were 494 million pieces of mail that did not arrive on time, a 48 percent increase in delayed mail delivery, and I'm sure that that was intended to impact the 2012 election. Yet, this Committee did not see fit to look into that.

Mr. DeJoy, this will be yes or no for the most part, is there any way the post offices can know whether or not ballots that they're delivering to households or to eligible voters, is there any way for the post office to know that?

DEJOY: No, sir.

PALMER: I bring that up because there is analysis of data released by U.S. Election Assistance Commission in 2019 and a recent U.S. Census Bureau's five-year American community survey, there were 378 counties nationwide that have more voter registrations than citizens living there who are old enough to vote.

These are counties for the registration exceed 100 percent and I will -- there are at least 18,658 extra voters. Under the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, judicial watch sent notice of violation letters to 19 large counties in five states, California, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Virginia, and Colorado.

RealClearPolitics reported that Los Angeles County had an estimated 1.6 million in eligible voters and 38 states have counties where the voter registration is over hundred percent, including Montgomery County, Maryland which represented my distinguished friend, Mr. Raskin.

The same article cited a 2012 Pew study that found there are 24 million voter registrations that are no longer valid or significantly inaccurate. Pew's total included 1.8 million dead people and another 2.75 million who are registered in at least two states.

New York, for instance, in this most recent primary that impacted your race, Madam Chairman, had 84,000 ballots, almost a fifth of all the -- over a fifth of all the ballots I think cast 12,000 in your race that were disqualified. So, my question to you, Mr. DeJoy, is there any way to be sure that more ballots than a household should be eligible to receive are not being delivered?

DEJOY: I'm sorry, say that again?

PALMER: Is there any way for the Postal Service to determine whether or not a household is getting more ballots than they should be?

DEJOY: We're focused on delivering the mail...

PALMER: So, the answer is no. There's no way to know that. And so -- and if -- and if there was some way to know that I'm sure the postal inspectors would get involved.

(UNKNOWN): OK. So, let's try that again. Once it calls you, it tells you press...

PALMER: Madam Chairman, I deserve my time.

MALONEY: What's going on?

PALMER: I think the Chinese have hacked them or something.

MALONEY: OK. What is that noise?

PALMER: Ma'am, the clock is still running up.

COMER: Madam Chair, can his time be restored?

MALONEY: We will give you adequate time.

PALMER: OK. Have we resolve this thing?

MALONEY: There's a problem. What is it?

(UNKNOWN): They're just trying to deal with technical. We'll give us extra time. Keep going.

PALMER: OK.

MALONEY: Do you have extra time? We have some technical problems.

PALMER: Thank you, Madam Chairman. and I do appreciate your indulgence. Thank you.

The Census Bureau reports that 11 percent of Americans move each year. Section 8 of the National Voter Registration Act, which was passed by the Democrats in 1993, signed by President Clinton and voted for by Mr. Cooper and Mr. Clay and Madam Chairman Maloney, require states to perform voter registration maintenance. It is really the responsibility of the federal government to assure that states and local governments make sure their voter rolls (ph) are accurate and that they have removed deceased people, people who have moved or inactive voters. And it should be noted that the Obama-Biden administration did not bring a single Section 8 enforcement action then during their entire term. That makes the post office's task of only delivering ballots to eligible voters more difficult.

My point is is that you've been accused of trying to impact an election when the fact of the matter is, for those people who have never had a real job out of business, what you've been trying to do is improve the performance of the post office so that what happened in 2015 does not continue to happen and it's going -- and the accusations are that you're trying to throw the election when the fact of the matter is, the fact that the federal government has not done its part particularly during the Obama-Biden administration to ensure that the voter rolls are accurate has made your job more difficult.

[11:35:15]

It's really not your job is it one way or the other?

DEJOY: No, sir.

PALMER: Can we count on the post office and delivery person around the nation to not deliver mass ballots, stacks of ballots to an address where the delivery person knows that's there's nobody there, an abandoned house, an abandoned apartment complex, a business? Would that -- that would be reported, wouldn't it?

DEJOY: We deliver mail to the address specified.

MALONEY: And if dozens or hundreds of mail-in ballots are dumped into blue mailboxes instead left on a regular mailbox for pickup or dropped off at the post office, would it make sense to report that the postal inspectors make sure that those ballots are legitimate?

DEJOY: There are processes that the postal inspectors deploy -- I'm not fully aware of what they are right now but there are processes that the postal inspectors deploy to identify any fraudulent type of activity within the mail system.

PALMER: But we need to make sure that this election is not tainted by fraudulent mail-in ballots. And I'm -- Madam Chairman, I'm going to do something there really and when Mr. Gosar mentioned the burned out, the riots in Portland and other -- Seattle and other places around the country, there was a chuckle from one of the Democrats on this Committee and I take offense at that.

This is a picture of the burned-out post office in Minneapolis, OK? There was mail in that post office that was lost. There may have been prescription drugs that were lost. There may have been Social Security checks in that office that were lost.

It is a fact that not only is the mail delivery delayed when you have anarchists laying siege to cities all over the country. It endangers postal workers, delivery people. It may have endangered people's lives who were not able to get their medicine because it burned up in the Minneapolis post office.

That's not funny and I hope that the Democrats in this Committee and in this Congress will take seriously what's happening in American cities. I yield back.

MALONEY: The gentleman yields back.

We're still having difficulty connecting with Congressman Clay. I now recognize Mr. Cooper, Congressman Cooper.

COOPER: Mr. DeJoy, here's what your so-called reforms have done to my district in 70 days. A lady named Elena Roser (ph) paid $5 July 22nd to send a certified letter to the Nashville Tennessee Social Security Office. The distance is 20 miles. The letter took 12 days to arrive.

Just this morning, excellent reporting from Nashville's Channel 5 TV proves that Nashville's mail trucks are being forced to leave on schedule even when completely empty. Imagine it, 53-foot trucks forced to travel hundreds of miles completely empty due to your so-called reforms. Here are the truck records. That's not efficiency. That's insanity.

For anyone thinking of voting absentee, the effect of your policies is to unilaterally move up Election Day from November 3rd to something like October 27th. And if you force more empty trucks on the highway, you will be able to single-handedly move up Election Day even earlier.

According to NPR, already 550,000 primary ballots, absentee ballots, were rejected in just 30 states and one of the main reasons was late delivery. How dare you disenfranchise so many voters when you told the Senate committee just last week that you had a sacred duty to protect election mail.

You know that it's a felony for Postal Service officer or employee to delay delivery of mail. A postal employee can be fined or imprisoned for up to five years for delaying the mail, but somehow you can delay all the mail and get away with it? They can be prosecuted but you can't even if your actions are a million times worse?

Mr. DeJoy, do you have a duty to obey U.S. law like every other American?

DEJOY: I do, sir.

COOPER: Well, previous postmaster generals have been punished for much smaller conflicts of interest than yours. In 1997, the 70th Postmaster General Marvin Runyon of Tennessee had to pay 25,000 -- $27,000 because of -- paid $350,000 conflict of interest.

[11:40:00]

If your $30 million conflict of interest 100 times larger than this Runyon's were treated like your predecessors, you would have to pay a $2.7 million fine and probably be ousted from being postmaster general. So, Mr. DeJoy, are you about the law that applies to other postmasters general?

DEJOY: I don't agree with the premise. I'm full compliance with all ethical requirements that I need and there's no IG investigation and I welcome the result of that report.

COOPER: Mr. DeJoy, as a mega donor for the Trump campaign, you were picked along with Michael Cohen and Elliott Broidy, two men who have already pled guilty to felonies, to be the three-deputy finance chairman of the Republican National Committee. Did you pay back several of your top executives for contributing to Trump's campaign by bonusing or rewarding them?

DEJOY: That's an outrageous claim, sir, and I resent it.

COOPER: I'm just asking a question.

DEJOY: The answer is no.

COOPER: SO, you did not bonus or reward any of your executives...

DEJOY: No. No.

COOPER: Anyone that you solicited for contribution to the Trump campaign?

DEJOY: No, sir.

COOPER: Not in whole or in part?

DEJOY: To be -- actually, I -- during the Trump campaign, I wasn't even working at my company anymore.

COOPER: Well, we want to make sure that campaign contributions are legal. So, all your campaign contributions are legal.

DEJOY: I'm fully aware of -- I'm fully aware of legal campaign contributions.

COOPER: What if...

DEJOY: And I resent the assertion. So, what are you accusing me of?

COOPER: Well, I'm asking a question. Do your mail delays fit Trump's campaign goal of hurting the post office as stated in his tweets? Are your mail delays implicit campaign contributions?

DEJOY: I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm not going to answer these types of question. I'm here to represent the Postal Service. There's nothing to do with -- all of my actions have to do with improvement of the Postal Service.

COOPER: May this...

DEJOY: Am I the only one in this room that understands that we have $10 billion-year loss, right? Am I the only one in this room...

COOPER: Will you give this Committee...

(CROSSTALK)

DEJOY: ... the OIG report...

COOPER: Will you give this Committee your communications with Mark Meadows, with Treasury Secretary Mnuchin with the President...

DEJOY: How am I (ph) going to do that?

COOPER: Mr. DeJoy, is your backup plan to be pardoned like Roger Stone?

(UNKNOWN): Pitiful.

COOPER: You have two seconds to answer the question.

DEJOY: I have no comment on that. It's not worthy to comment.

COOPER: I see my time has expired.

MALONEY: The gentleman's time has expired.

DEJOY: It's not worthy to comment.

MALONEY: Representative -- the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Steube, is recognized for five minutes. Consciousness Steube?

STEUBE: Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, as a veteran who served in Iraq in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, to compare postal workers to our military servicemembers in Iraq or Afghanistan quite frankly to me is offensive. The last time I checked Postal Service drivers weren't getting their vehicles blown up by IEDs or being shot at as they drove around and delivered mail.

So, to try to compare our military servicemembers who sacrificed on the battlefields across this world to our Postal Service members is frankly offensive as a person that had served. It's unfortunate that there are Democrats on this Committee that have 100 percent politicized the Postal Service to try to stoke fear with the American people.

But we shouldn't be surprised. It's a familiar thing for Democrats over the last two years. A subcommittee chairman of this committee when asked on national television, and I quote, "Are you saying -- say it directly, is this an attempt by the President you believe to interfere in the election?" The answer was, absolutely.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that President Trump is using the Postal Service to interfere with the election, not. In fact, quite the opposite. But Democrats don't care about the facts. So, here we go again, it seems like just yesterday we are hearing how the Trump campaign colluded and conspired with Russia to interfere with the last election and when the facts actually came out, there was no evidence that that ever occurred. This is absolutely a concocted narrative by the Democrats to stoke fear in the American people just like the Russia collusion hoax.

Financial issues have played the Postal Service for decades and is vastly need a reform. Mr. DeJoy just stated that $10 billion loss a year. Businesses couldn't operate that way.

But the Democrats don't want real reform. If they did, they would have worked with our witness today, they would have worked with Republicans in crafting a bill, they would have worked with our counterparts in the Senate, they would have worked with the administration to actually come up with a reform that would actually pass.

[11:45:00]

This is a political strum to further the Democrats newest interference hoax. I represent nine counties in Florida and just last week, we held our primary elections. We just saw the largest turnout in a presidential election year primary since 1992, that was 18 years, about 2.3 million mailing ballots were cast which made up about 59 percent of all ballots cast.

Initial reports indicated that there are minimal issues with the additional ballots handed by the Postal Service. There were no issues in my nine counties with absentee ballots in this district that I am aware of.

Mr. DeJoy, would it be fair to say that the Postal Service successfully delivered during the Florida's primary last week?

DEJOY: Yes, sir.

STEUBE: The 2.3 million mailing ballots that were cast in Florida are significant amount for one state. What are the factors that led to the Postal Service being able to deliver the substantial increase in mailing ballots on time?

DEJOY: When it comes to ballots, the Postal Service, prior to my arrival and the heightened awareness of this particular election, throws everything it has to -- at moving ballots through the system. The ballots are usually identified with special markings and every employee is very much -- and manager is very much focused on making sure that ballots moved quickly through the process. Sometimes in advance of first-class mail. So, those particular processes were deployed and will be deployed as we come into the 2020 election.

STEUBE: And Florida has -- am I correct in stating that Florida has a reasonable timeframe for Postal Service to return the ballots as opposed to some states that just allow ballots to be requested the last minute, therefore, delaying their ability for the Postal Service to get those ballots to the precincts in time?

DEJOY: Thank you for -- so, the -- and that is a big part of the effort of the Postal Service. Prior to my arrival and since my arrival and the purpose of sending out the letters to all the states with regard to what -- we just want to make everybody aware of what is it that will really work, we can put all these additional processes on but it would be more helpful if we had had reasonable standards from the election boards that comply with our processes to enable us to do it more efficiently and effectively.

STEUBE: So, to clarify, do you need any additional funding to be able to successfully deliver ballots in Florida this November?

DEJOY: No. We do not, sir.

STEUBE: Are there any lessons that other states can learn from the way that Florida handles our ballots in absentee voting?

DEJOY: Well, I'm not particularly familiar with Florida but our general counsel and we have -- has put out letters with regard to each states of election guidelines. We have a website that's just been posted on the normal process.

And in general, I will say from the -- on behalf of 650,000 postal workers, get you ballot early and please vote early and that is just common sense. But if Florida had a -- Florida had a good process. So, I'm sure their electoral board procedures were good. We can't do this all by ourselves.

So, we would appreciate every state's help in reviewing their standards and get -- and take the advice of the Postal Service General Counsel and what's on our website.

MALONEY: Thank you. The gentleman's time has expired.

We now recognize Mr. Clay. If we're still having connection problems, we are going to Mr. Connolly. Mr. Clay?

CLAY: Hi, Madam Chair. I hope you can hear me now.

MALONEY: Yes, we can.

CLAY: All right. Let me -- and thank you for conducting this hearing. Mr. DeJoy, let me start with a little question. Before you implemented your changes, did you conduct any analysis of the effect your changes would have on delaying prescription drug shipments, the delivery of those shipments to your customer? Did you analyze that before you implemented these changes?

[11:50:00]

DEJOY: Sir, we have a whole operating organization that I asked to put together a plan and it wasn't a change, it was comply with your schedules and when we could comply with U.S. -- with our schedules. I reviewed this with every regional area of V.P. (ph) on a discussion that they were ready and they rolled it out.

I'm not the COO, I'm the CEO of the organization. But I received commitment that we would be able to roll forward with the plan on -- to committing to our existing schedule.

CLAY: OK. Mr. DeJoy, let me say this, prioritizing on-time truck departures means letter carriers leave without all of their packages, including medicine on board. Critical medicines like refrigerated insulin is reportedly sitting in sorting facilities days longer than expected. Did you examine the effect of your changes on medicines like insulin that require special storage?

DEJOY: Sir, at no time did I say don't put the mail on the trucks when they left on time. This was not a hard direct everything must leave on time. We still have thousands of trucks a day that leave late within a certain timeframe.

So, the whole -- and there was still hundreds of extra trips. So, the intention was to put the mail on the trucks and have the trucks leave on time. That should not have impacted anybody.

CLAY: What about the impact -- Mr. DeJoy, what about the impact of listing (ph) that insulin and having it sit on the floor somewhere and it may spoil or whatever. At least we know it won't be delayed. Don't you all give that any consideration?

DEJOY: We're concerned about the impact to each individual across the country and we're working extremely hard to bring the service levels back to where they were and to exceed that. And we will be there shortly.

CLAY: Mr. DeJoy, we would like a copy of any and all analysis you conducted before you implemented your changes. Will you provide them to this Committee?

DEJOY: I will go back to the office and see what we -- what the operating team has on that and we'll seek to do so.

CLAY: OK. And while you're at it, Mr. DeJoy, do you have any information on the number of prescription drug shipments that the Postal Service has delivered late since you began implementing these changes and will you provide that information to the Committee by the end of the week? Can you give us...

DEJOY: I will -- I don't know -- I'm not aware of what we have on specific types of shipment. I'm sure we have something. I will take a look at it. But, again, I want to remind you that the change is misleading and what I ask is that the team find a way to run trucks on schedule, which we intended -- the intention was that we put the mail on the trucks went randomly (ph) scheduled.

MALONEY: Thank you, Mr. Clay.

And I'll -- we now...

CONNOLLY: Madam Chairwoman?

MALONEY: Yes?

CONNOLLY: Could I just ask unanimous consent? Mr. Lynch asked me to enter into the record set of data from the American Postal Workers Union with respect to mail volume and the reduction in advanced facer canceller systems delivery bar code sorter, automated flat sorting machine 100s and flat sequencing systems in its mail processing facilities.

MALONEY: Without objection. CONNOLLY: I thank the Chairman.

MALONEY: Thank you.

Mr. Norman from South Carolina is now recognized. Mr. Norman?

NORMAN: Thank you, Chairwoman Maloney. Mr. DeJoy, I just want to apologize to you getting a berating up here. Congressman Lynch going into a five-minute dialogue would not give you time to answer questions. It would not -- he was yelling over you.

It's typical of how this hearing has gone and what's amazing to me is this bill had to be rushed out this past Saturday. You remember, do you know that 67 members did not even take the time to show up if?

[11:55:00]

If your workers at the post office don't show up, what happens? They don't get a paycheck and the mail doesn't get delivery. It's an insult to what the Democrats are trying to do. A false narrative that has not worked for them since this president was elected. The Mueller report, the impeachment, none of it is working.

Now, they're going fishing for this. I apologize to you. Let me get some yes or no answers. Are you and the Postal Service actively removing mailboxes at the behest to President Trump to undermine the election or as President Obama said, kneecap the Postal Service?

DEJOY: No, sir.

NORMAN: Was the U.S. Postal Service going to be insolvent before the election if you do not -- did not receive the 25 billion the Democrats insisted including in their bill?

DEJOY: No, sir.

NORMAN: Is the United States Postal Service equipped to handle voting by mail for the November election?

DEJOY: Yes, sir.

NORMAN: Are you unlocking blue boxes to stop the mail?

DEJOY: Anything with blue boxes is stopped.

NORMAN: Would the -- Congressman Palmer showed pictures of the burned- out mailboxes and the cities on fire, Portland, Chicago, Minneapolis, Sacramento, New York. Would that kind of slow the post office delivery time?

DEJOY: There are certain actions and procedures that we have for situations for public unrest that we deploy a variety of different things up to and including getting out collection boxes out of there when it happens. But I don't know all of -- everything that goes with that. But, yes, it would slow down the mail.

NORMAN: Slow down and the safety of the delivering -- the person delivering the mail is pretty much an issue now, wouldn't it?

DEJOY: I'm sorry?

NORMAN: The welfare of the person delivering mail in the burned-out cities would kind of be a problem, wouldn't it?

DEJOY: Absolutely. Our letter carriers have hazardous jobs in many cases.

NORMAN: Were you consulted on this all-important bill that we had to take up this past Saturday to add your expertise?

DEJOY: I don't know if our -- I think our legislative affairs people had some interaction to comment on it.

NORMAN: And you made a good statement, you're the -- you're not the chief operating officer, you're the CEO. You've been on the job 70 days. To be accused of everything you've been accused of is simply not right, is unfair. I'm glad the American people getting a front row seat to what you are having to endure.

I yield back.

MALONEY: The gentleman yields back.

Mr. Connolly is now recognized.

CONNOLLY: Well, my, my my. You're right. You've been on the job 70 days and you've caused this much ruckus. And believe it or not, that's called accountability. That's why he's here today. That's why we passed the bill.

If he wasn't consulted, it's because he was the inspiration of the bill. A dubious distinction nonetheless. Mr. DeJoy, when did you take office? You were announced I think in May but when did you actually take over the job as postmaster general, what day?

DEJOY: June 15th.

CONNOLLY: June 15th. And you've seen this data on or around that time is when we see roughly eight percent decline in service in the Postal Service, which most people would say correlates to the reorganization and operational efficiencies you undertook. Do you think that's a fair characterization?

DEJOY: I think there's a lot of different issues going on within the country that had impact mail delay, including the actions that we took with regard to transportation. I don't think -- I think the organizational change was made because of the poor -- it was accelerated because of the poor rollout.

CONNOLLY: Yes. I understand.

DEJOY: It has no -- I don't -- I think that would strengthen the recovery.

CONNOLLY: But, of course, we all live in a context, don't we, Mr. DeJoy?

DEJOY: That is true.

CONNOLLY: You're in the context of the worst pandemic in a hundred years, 176,000 Americans dead, 40,000 postal employees who have gotten the virus or quarantined because of it and sadly, a few dozen dead.

And we're on the eve of a massive shift to voting by mail, 76 percent of all Americans live in the state that can vote by mail, 70 percent of Americans want to vote by mail, 50 to 60 percent intend to vote by mail and along comes this.

Now, let's stipulate that your motives were pure, that you came at this like a normal private sector CEO, you see some problems, you want to create some efficiencies and save some money and make us work better.

[12:00:00]