Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Interview With Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT); Penn State Students Demand Virtual Learning After Parties; Police Shoot Black Man In Back At Close Range In Front Of Children; Massive Wildfires Across California. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired August 24, 2020 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): That's what Trump just said and he's said that before.

What does that mean? It means that Trump is saying that despite the fact the last poll I have seen has him down 10 points nationally, he's losing, according to recent polls in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Florida, states that he has to win.

What he is saying is, look, the only way we're going to lose this election is through a rigged election. And that means that, if on Election Day, he wins, that's great. But if he loses, he really doesn't lose.

In other words, you have, for the first time in my lifetime, a president of the United States saying I cannot lose this election.

If I win, great, and if I lose, it's rigged. And if it's rigged, guess what? I may not leave the office.

And I think this is an issue we have got to spend a lot of time talking about.

I know not everybody out there agrees with me. They don't agree with Joe Biden. They don't agree with Kamala Harris. And that's fine.

But I would hope that the American people understand that millions of people have put their lives on the line, and sometimes died, and came home wounded to defend American democracy.

And we now have a president, who is behind in most of the polls. That doesn't mean to say that he can't win. I'm not saying that. He could win a fair election.

But to say that now being behind all the polls, the only way he can lose is if the election is rigged is a major effort to undermine American democracy and the faith of the American people in their election system.

This is an outrage. And it's an issue that has to be dealt with.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: You know, he chose, as you said, today, first day of his convention, his first remarks, rather than -- a lot of Republican operatives have been saying this is going to be a hopeful convention, looking to what his agenda's going to be. He spent the bulk of his time, trying to suppress the vote.

I mean, he is claiming that states that have universal ballots, states where the state sends ballots to every Household so they can cast their vote, send them in the mail, he said what maybe they're only going to send them to Democrats, not Republicans.

He's claiming, as he always has, about massive voter fraud -- I spoke to the secretary of state of Washington state, who's a Republican, who says you know what, their mail-in balloting is very successful.

Doesn't favor Democrats or Republicans. Equal representation. And incidents of fraud are statistically insignificant, in the millions of votes cast.

SANDERS: And this is a Republican secretary of state?

COOPER: Yes.

SANDERS: And I can tell you, just in Vermont, last week, we had our primary elections. Largest voter turnout ever for a primary election. Most people, overwhelming majority, voted by mail in. Nobody, winner or loser, nobody thought there was a problem.

So, the point I'm getting to, you ask me about the postal service, and obviously, if you listen to everything that Trump is saying, of course, he's trying to undermine the postal service.

But even more scary than that -- one thing to try to destroy the postal service, that's pretty bad. But even more frightening than that, what he is saying is the only way I can lose is if the election is rigged.

So, what happens if, on Tuesday night, the 3rd, you report on CNN that Trump has lost Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, has lost the popular vote, the Electoral College?

He's going to get on the air and saying oh, no, we didn't lose that election. It was rigged. What happens then?

I think the American people have got to make it clear that, hey, you know what, you're not going to destroy our democracy. If you win, fine, you win. But if you lose, you are leaving office, period.

COOPER: CNN learned that President Trump may issue emergency authorization of a vaccine before phase three trials, or there's been discussion of that.

We saw what happened now, just yesterday, after the FDA not issuing on the use of -- on the use of plasma for people. Now they have issued emergency use for plasma, under pressure.

Are you concerned about the president politicizing the vaccine before election? Saying it doesn't need to be tested in tens of thousands for safety. We're just going to put it out because it's such an emergency.

SANDERS: Look, we could go on for three hours discussing all of that.

This is a president, who, from day one, has rejected science in terms of how we have to deal with the pandemic.

[14:35:03]

He has attacked scientists. He has withdrawn from the World Health Organization. And he lies every single day.

Bottom line is, this is -- you are responsible for the health and wellbeing of over 300 million people. You've got to rely on scientists and doctors. That's what you've got to do.

I don't know the answers. Surely, Trump doesn't know the answers.

You rely on doctors and scientists. And you don't politicize the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control, the FDA.

That has got to be left in the hands of the best scientists who make the best decisions they can for the health and wellbeing of the American people.

COOPER: Senator Bernie Sanders, I appreciate your time. Thank you, sir.

SANDERS: Thank you.

COOPER: The mayor of Tuscaloosa shutting down all bars as coronavirus cases spike at the University of Alabama. And Alabama is not alone, as students hold parties at campuses across the nation.

Plus, more on our breaking news. The New York attorney general investigating the Trump Organization over their assets. She wants Eric Trump deposed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:40:06]

COOPER: Tuscaloosa's mayor just ordered all bars in the city to close, effective 5:00 p.m. local time today. It's a response to a letter sent to the University of Alabama students by the school's president, calling the rise in coronavirus cases on campus unacceptable.

The fall semester resumed with in-person classes last Wednesday.

Alabama's president warned all students to follow safety protocols or risk possible suspension.

Last week, large crowds were seen lined up outside bars near the campus, prompting angry responses from the school's athletic director and an Alabama football player.

Penn State University has been criticized over its safety protocols just days after resuming in-person classes. Several videos surfaced showing students partying without masks or social distancing. Two fraternities have been suspended.

Now some students are calling on Penn State to go virtual.

Today, the university started conducting randomized testing to track asymptomatic carriers.

Michael Miller is a Penn State senior and university student leader. And Zachary McKay is Penn State's student body president.

They want the school to go virtual. They feel the university is blaming the students for the spike in cases.

They both join me.

Thanks for being with us.

Zachary, have you talked to University officials about their concerns and do you think they'll listen?

ZACHARY MCKAY, PENN STATE STUDENT BODY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much for having us today, Anderson. And I hope you and the family are doing well.

We have. We've been in a lot of conversations with administrators. And over the summer, I've been very hopeful. I have trusted a lot of the plans that we looked at over the summer and they would be carried out effectively as possible. But it's starting to look a little fairytale- esque.

I'll be completely honest. After seeing a lot of those videos, you have to wonder, did the university know students were going to act like this and were going to follow human nature. And the answer is yes.

In a survey put out by Penn State earlier this year, 20 percent of students responded they would not want to wear masks in classes.

You have to ask yourself, if they're not ready to wear one in class, can you imagine what they're going to do out of class. But then to shift the blame onto students, it seems outrageous.

COOPER: Michael, what do you want to see? Are all classes online?

MICHAEL MILLER, PENN STATE SENIOR & STUDENT LEADER: Yes, Anderson. So, we've talked to University officials and right now R.A.'s are shouldering the majority of the blame. We have one of the densest student housing populations in the country.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: R.A. is a resident advisor.

MILLER: Yes. And they're being tasked with crowd control. And that's not what they signed up for. They're not being tested regularly. And they're not even being given hazard pay.

We think the university should make the responsible decision, which is to cancel the on-campus semester. We think that's going to save lives and is the only option left.

COOPER: So, Zach, you wouldn't support staying on campus and doing classes online? You think people should not be on campus?

MCKAY: I think you have to consider the incentive. So, if they're encouraged to stay on campus, the problem doesn't necessarily go away.

But by canceling in-person classes, you lose the incentive of staying on campus and encourage some of the off students to leave.

And you have to acknowledge there are some students who can't for this for that reason.

And if you send those on-campus students home, I think you'll see a decrease in the number of cases. We need be on top of this.

MILLER: And the reality is --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Go ahead, Michael, quickly.

MILLER: We have 70 percent of the people on campus right now that haven't been tested. And they're only doing 1 percent of testing of students every day. So, right now the plan is not working.

We love Penn State and want to see a decision that protects our community.

COOPER: Zachary McKay, Michael Miller, thanks very much. We appreciate it. We'll continue to follow it.

Thanks.

More than a million acres in California scorched by wildfires. Could get much worse with weather conditions across the state.

Plus, a black man in Wisconsin man is fighting for his life after police shot him in the back and in front of his children.

[14:45:10]

Back to our break news. Trump officially securing the votes for re- nomination as president. All week long, we're covering the big speeches at the Republican National Convention. It starts with our special coverage, beginning tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, live on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In Kenosha, Wisconsin, two police officers are on leave and an investigation underway after a young black man was shot by police in the back multiple times as his children looked on. The man has been identified as Jacob Blake.

We have video of the incident. We want to warn you it is disturbing. Here it is now.

You could see police, one with his gun drawn, following Blake as he walked to the driver's side of the vehicle. And as opens the driver door and leans in the vehicle, a police officer holding onto his shirt seems to shoot him. Seven shots are fired.

The Wisconsin lieutenant governor confirmed Blake was shot seven times in the back.

We paused the video. It is graphic.

Blake has been hospitalized and is in serious condition.

His uncle talked to CNN, calling the shooting, quote, "outrageous." Adding, "Who was he threatening? He had a tank top and shorts on. He had no weapon. And he was going to back to the car because the children needed to be checked on."

The shooting sparked unrest overnight in Kenosha. Protesters clashed with riot police. Smashed windows and set vehicles on fire.

My colleague, Don Lemon, joins us by phone. He's the host of the new podcast "Silence Is Not an Option."

[14:50:00]

Don, it is a disturbing video. I'm wondering what your reaction is.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR (via telephone): Well, just as you said, it is disturbing. My reaction is that here we go again. And the time that it is happening, right when we're in the middle or beginning of the Republican National Convention.

We've just had the Democratic convention and we've seen unrest happen all over the country.

And in the summer of -- I call it -- the George Floyd unrest, it's just an indication, Anderson, that we're going to be dealing with this for quite some time unless we figure out how to come together when it comes to criminal justice, when it comes to policing, and also defunding the police.

I think this is a terrible message going into the Republican National Convention. And I mean for the Republicans.

Because when you look at a video like this, it is hard to say, OK, well, we don't want to defund police. Most people don't want to defund police. Even Democrats.

The people who are out there protesting, some of the more progressive wing of the Democratic Party, they want defunding of the police. But if you talk to moderate people, they don't want it. But it is going to be tough for Republicans to say, we don't need

police reform, what we need is law and order, when we actually need a combination.

And for everyone to get on board and figure out, we need to stop shooting people, regardless of what people are saying. The police union saying, oh, well, we need to know what happened. Yes, we do.

When you look at the incident, it is hard to justify -- Anderson?

COOPER: And to that point, the police were called to what was called a domestic violence allegation. We don't know what occurred before the video was shot.

To that point, the Wisconsin governor issued a statement saying, while we don't have all of the details yet, what we know for certain is that he's not the first black man or person to be shot at the hands of individuals in law enforcement in our state or our country.

And he's getting pushback. Kenosha Police association president calling the governor's statement wholly irresponsible.

Adding, quote, "As always, the video currently circulating does not capture all of the intricacies of a highly dynamic incident. We ask that you withhold passing judgment until all of the facts are known and released."

I wonder what your response is from the police and the governor himself?

LEMON: Well, I think the response from the police is obvious. That's what they're going to say.

And, yes, of course, you should withhold judgment about what happened before. But the video tells you what happened in the moment.

And think about in that video why he was going back to the car. We don't know what was in the car, except we know there were children in the car. That his nephew, who was on, or uncle said he's going back to check on children.

Police are supposed to be there to de-escalate the situation and not escalate it.

In that time, with an unarmed man and you have a number of police officers there and they can't subdue him or stop him? It is a training issue.

And as far as the governor, I don't see what is wrong with what the governor said. He is not anti-police because he said we have to figure out how to deal with the black citizens in our community. That's not anti anything. That is the truth.

I think it is tough. Especially if you're saying we don't want police defunded. Which I go back to most people don't. But the people who want the police defunded, meaning they want police departments to be "retrained and rethought" -- their words -- and they want social workers sent to different communities, this is a case for that.

Because if there was a social worker sent, this man may still be alive.

COOPER: And I'm afraid we lost the connection there with Don.

Don Lemon.

Massive wildfires are taking a terrible toll across California. The danger is not over. The flames and smoke have killed at least seven people. It torched 1.2 million acres, I should say, leaving little but ashes.

Dan Simon is in Napa, California.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, these fires continue to rage out of control with tens of thousands of people forced to flee their homes. It is not clear when a lot of the folks will be allowed to return to their homes or even if they'll have a home to return to.

Let me explain where I am. We're in the town of Healdsburg. This is wine country. It is harvest season right now. And the smoke and the flames will have damaged some of the crops. It is not clear how much. But obviously wine country is going to be impacted in some fashion.

Over here, you could see the fire trucks, firefighters basically waiting for the next assignment. They're weary and they've been working overtime.

The state is trying to get more crews in from other parts of the country.

In the meantime, some of the numbers, Anderson, have been mind- boggling. Some 12,000 lightning strikes over the past several days resulting in hundreds of wildfires. Two dozen of them considered major.

[14:55:04]

Those fires have been broken into various complexes. There are three of them. And two of the three are considered two of the largest wildfires in California history.

The good news, as far as this fire is concerned, where we are, this is the LNU Complex Fire. Containment is now above 20 percent. Crews made great progress over the weekend. And there was a red flag warning but that has now been canceled.

So, hopefully, crews will be able to build on the progress they've made -- Anderson? (END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Dan Simon, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

The Republican National Convention is off and running, formally nominating President Trump for re-election but will skip voting on a party platform.

Jake Tapper is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Good afternoon. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

[14:59:59]

The postmaster general, Louis DeJoy, is testifying on Capitol Hill right now. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is asking him questions. Let's listen in.