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Officials Warn of Troubling COVID-19 Signs across Heartland; Jacob Blake's Father Says, Police Shooting Paralyzed my Son; Melania Trump to Deliver RNC Speech Tonight. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 25, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

As Trump administration officials reportedly raise the possibility of rushing a vaccine before important late-stage trials are finished, Dr. Anthony Fauci is warning that that would be a mistake. He says doing so could damage efforts to develop other vaccines and crucially get people to take them with confidence.

And even as parts of the south are seeing signs of hope, that's important. Look at those green states there, officials are looking at potential surge in America's heartland, more on what is causing those worries in a moment.

Even is a the country sees more than 177,000 coronavirus deaths and counting, the GOP last night was touting President Trump's pandemic response during that first night of the Republican National Convention. There were also many attacks on Joe Biden and a dark future, they say the country faces, if he wins in November. Lots of hyperbole last night.

We're also following new developments as protests in Wisconsin are ramping up after a black man was shot by police in front of his children. We're going to be live in Kenosha with the latest on those protests, what we know about the investigation.

But, first, CNN's Randi Kaye joins me now on those concerns about coronavirus surges in the Midwest. Where exactly and why do public health officials believe this is happening now?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, the good news, Jim, that parts of the country who saw the worst of the pandemic are now seeing an improvement. As you said, the Sunbelt is certainly looking better but the Midwest is a concern. There're spikes in cases there. The infections are certainly trending upwards.

So, one area is Kentucky. The Kentucky governor saying that they have seen more deaths from COVID in the last week than they saw in any week since the pandemic started, and in Kansas, the governor there reporting at least one case of coronavirus in every single county.

CDC's Dr. Robert Redfield warning of a third wave possibly in the nation's heartland, so that is certainly a concern.

On the issue of vaccines, Jim, two sources telling CNN that the White House is raising the possibility of an emergency use authorization to get a vaccine to market. That means it would go to market before the late-stage trials are even completed.

Dr. Fauci, as you said, certainly voicing concern about this, calling it dangerous. He says that they may not know how effective that vaccine actually is if they don't finish those trials and it could put an end to other vaccine trials if one does hit the market. Fauci saying, quote, we would hope nothing interferes with the full demonstration that a vaccine is safe and effective.

And as you know, Jim, finally, the president has certainly been suggesting that we will see a vaccine soon, is his words, or by the end of the year, and now the Department of Health and Human Services saying they are denying that they are fast-tracking a vaccine for political purposes. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Randi Kaye, thanks so much.

This morning, Florida education officials are appealing after a judge blocked a state order requiring schools to reopen for in-person classes five days a week. CNN's Bianna Golodryga joins us now with more.

So this is an interesting case, right, because you have the states trying to force schools' hands to reopen five days a week in person. Judge, saying, no, you've got to follow safety measures here. Where does this go next?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes. Jim, good morning. This is a temporary victory at least for the state's teachers and a temporary injunction. A Florida judge blocked the state's requirement that all public schools must offer in-person classes starting August 31st, just a few days away.

And the ruling favors Florida's statewide teachers union, which sued Governor DeSantis and the education commissioner. The union had been pushing for delay to the start of school because of coronavirus surges. Remember, there have been 602,000 cases that were confirmed in this state, over 10,000 deaths.

The judge saying in his decision that the State Department of Education essentially ignored the requirement of school safety when they ordered the reopening of in-person classes this month. And the judge saying that the state was putting the school system in an untenable situation, saying they should either sacrifice their own health or public funding. Of course, as you mentioned, the state is appealing that ruling.

And, meantime, we seem to see what's going on on campuses across the country, university campuses. They are starting to and continuing to crack down on students who are not following the rules. One school, Ohio State University, suspended 228 students who they say were engaging in off-campus parties and gatherings of larger than ten people.

[10:05:04]

So Ohio State really cracking down.

And then take a look at the University of Alabama system. They had over 500 confirmed cases of coronavirus, so what did they do? They gathered together with the city, the mayor of Tuscaloosa is going to be shutting down bars and limiting alcohol sales in restaurants for at least two weeks, saying this is a public/private partnership here. We've got to join forces for the overall health and well-being of our system and our city.

SCIUTTO: Yes, schools before bars perhaps. Bianna Golodryga --

GOLODRYGA: That should have always been the case, yes.

SCIUTTO: Yes, exactly, though not in practice, sadly. Thanks so much, Bianna. We know you're staying on top of it.

The head of the Food and Drug Administration is clarifying comments he made about the benefits of convalescent plasma. Here is what he originally said Sunday and then listen to how he clarified those comments this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. STEPHEN HAHN, FDA COMMISSIONER: Let me just put this in perspective. Many of you know I was a cancer doctor before I became FDA commissioner and a 35 percent improvement in survival is a pretty substantial clinical benefit.

what that means is, and if the data continue to pan out, 100 people who are sick with COVID-19, 35 would have been saved because of the administration of plasma.

First thing I would like to say is that I personally could have done a better job and should have done a better job at that press conference explaining what the data show regarding convalescent plasma. And I can assure the American people that this decision was made based upon sound science and data.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: All right. Let's look at the difference there. CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, you've been speaking to Dr. Hahn, could have done a better job or was that 35 out of 100 figure misleading?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIE MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, it was definitely misleading. And, you know, it was wrong, to be fair. Dr. Hahn called me last night before he put out a few tweets sort of trying to explain this, but it's -- it's a really important point, Jim, because I think, you know, we're all being forced to look at data and a try to evaluate this data, and we want to have the conclusions, you know, be absolutely accurate.

So let me just show you for a second. I know this is math first thing in the morning, Jim, but let me just show you because I spent a lot of time going through the studies that the FDA was looking at. I went over these with Dr. Hahn last night, and if we can put these up.

But, basically, the study that they were talking about was the study of some 35,000 people who received convalescent plasma. They basically broke it down into two groups, people who got the high dose and people who got the low dose, okay, No placebo, no group that got no dose, just comparing high dose versus low dose.

And what they found was that those who got the lower dose had a higher mortality, 13.7 percent, those who had the higher dose had a lower mortality. So there was benefit if you used the higher dose compared to lower dose and that was the 35 percent relative improvement in mortality.

That doesn't mean what Dr. Hahn initially said was that 35 people out of 100 would survive who otherwise wouldn't. When you actually do the math, we find that it's closer to four-and-a-half to five people out of 100 would survive at the higher dose compared to the lower dose of the antibodies.

I hope that makes sense. I know there's a lot there.

SCIUTTO: Well, it does.

GUPTA: But here is the point, Jim.

SCIUTTO: But, Dr. Gupta, that's a seven times, right? I mean, he said from the White House podium as the White House fast-tracked this, that 35 out of 100 people would live. I mean, that translate, as you look at our number there, to tens of thousands of lives. It's actually 1/7 of that figure? I mean --

GUPTA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: How does the FDA make that mistake?

GUPTA: It's a significant mistake. I mean, I -- I don't know. When he called me last night, he said, look, you know, first, he said I could have explained it better and I said that was wrong. It was a question of explaining it better and he acknowledged that and said it was live T.V., he just sort of said that and it was a mistake.

Clearly, he's an oncologist, he used to be the head of the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center. So, I mean, this is his bread and butter. So it was surprising, Jim. I don't know what more to make of that.

I will say this as well, that, you know, convalescent plasma, a lot of people have said, we're excited about this, enthusiastic at least, but this -- the data still is not adequate, right, for the reasons we just mentioned. But also in these studies, people were also getting steroids. People were also getting remdesivir. We saw -- when I really looked at the data, 50 percent of the people were getting steroids as well, which we know has benefit.

So now, you have to ask yourself, well, is it the plasma or is it the steroids or is it something else all together? That's why you do studies. I'm getting so many people saying to me, well, just give it. If it shows some benefit, why not just give it? What you'd like to know, A, that it actually does work, B, who should receive it, C, when should they get it, D, what's the right dose. There is a process in this in order to get the maximum benefit, and we don't have that.

SCIUTTO: But this is the thing, Sanjay.

[10:10:00]

It's not the first time, right? I mean, you had the administration pushing hydroxychloroquine even when you didn't have the studies to back that up. And now you have concerns expressed by Dr. Fauci, right, about fast-tracking a vaccine before you complete the science of large-scale studies.

I mean, I just wonder how confident should people at home be that it's the science driving this response and not politics here?

GUPTA: Well, these are some cautionary tales right now. We can't ignore, Jim, I think to your point. We've got to pay attention to what has happened so far and make sure, I think, as journalists, as scientists, as everybody, that the data is clearly available, that people can look at this themselves and this independent review.

One thing I will say, Jim. I think with vaccines, the bar has to be higher, right? If you're talking about hospitalized patients receiving convalescent plasma, sick patients, that's different than saying these are perfectly healthy people that you're about to give a substance to. If the data is not clear on safety and efficacy, that's a huge, huge problem.

And I think that's part of the reason where we're really beating the drum on this particular issue to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

SCIUTTO: I mean, you look to these folks for hard answers and hard data, really disappointing. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, great to have you on to break it all down.

GUPTA: You got it. Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Turning now to Kenosha, Wisconsin, and that's where we're now learning more about the extent of injuries to a black man, Jacob Blake, that he suffered after being shot multiple times in his back by police. You may have seen the video. The video of a shooting has sparked protests, some of them violent, damaging overnight.

CNN's Sara Sidner, who recently spoke with Jacob Blake's father, joins us now. So, Sara, tell us what you've learned about his injuries and also what you're seeing in terms of the protests there. SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, Jacob Blake's father told us that his son has dealt with multiple surgeries from the bullet holes in his body and that, at this point, he is paralyzed from his waist down. They are not sure, the doctors, as to whether or not this is going to be a permanent paralyzation or not, whether this will be temporary.

But at the moment, the family obviously distraught and Jacob himself distraught, because, at this moment, he is unable to move anything below his waist on his own. So there is that element.

We also talked to his uncle, Justin Blake. And Justin Blake said that Jacob was a strong guy and he cannot believe after looking at the video that he is actually still with us, still alive. And so the family thankful on one hand that he is still alive, that he is still present and with them, and, on the other hand, looking at what his quality of life will be and the quality of life of his family.

We know that his -- three of his children, a three-year-old, five- year-old and eight-year-old, were inside of the car when the police officer opened fire on him. And so they are traumatized. The uncle saying that they are being loved on, as he put it, but that they are certainly traumatized and will need help getting through this. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Okay. Tell us about the protests that you saw last night, the extent of them, the damage, injuries, et cetera and how are officials responding.

SIDNER: You know, we've seen this so many times over and over again for so many years when something like this happens. In the daytime, the protests are generally peaceful, you know, people are raising their voices but not doing anything destructive. And as night falls, things start to get complicate.

We know that there was tear gas, a lot of that that was sort of sprayed out as police and protesters came face-to-face here outside the courthouse. We also -- you can see some of the damage there. They brought in garbage trucks to try and stop people from being able to drive down. Those garbage trucks set on fire. We also saw several buildings ablaze in the neighborhood, fully engulfed and are destroyed this morning.

And you sort of get a reaction in two different ways. You have folks that live in this community that understand the outrage, that feel that pain, that feel that this is the way to sort of show everyone how much pain there is and that they want change. And there are other folks in the community who are saying, look, we have to live with this. After this, all this destruction is going to make life extremely hard in our neighborhood, and they don't want to see local businesses being burned down. Jim?

SCIUTTO: No, understandably. Sara Sidner, good to have you there. Thanks very much.

Well, the shooting of Jacob Blake is also stirring an impassioned reaction from NBA superstar LeBron James. He has recently become a leading voice in the broader calls for social justice. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, NBA STAR: They could have grabbed him, you know? They could have done that. And why does it always have to get to a point where we see the guns firing?

[10:15:01]

Quite frankly, it's just (BLEEP) up in our community.

And I know people get tired of hearing me say it but we are scared as black people in America, black men, black women, black kids, we are terrified.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, the NBA resumed its season in July with a clear message on its courts. See it there, Black Lives Matter, on players' jerseys as well.

First Lady Melania Trump headlines night two of the Republican National Convention from the newly renovated White House rose garden. So how can she help the president win over voters for Team Trump? We'll discuss.

Plus, the coast of Texas and Louisiana now on high alert as Hurricane Laura enters the gulf. It's getting a lot stronger. The water is very warm and it's making it a lot stronger.

And the Big Apple is already going through huge changes in the wake of coronavirus, so what could the city look like when the virus is over?

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

The first lady will take center stage on day two of the Republican National Convention. Tonight, Melania Trump will address the GOP conference.

On the first night, Republicans focused on painting really a gloomy picture of America's future under Joe Biden burning down American values, statements like that.

Joining me now CNN Contributor and author of the book's Team of Five and First Women is Kate Andersen Brower, Lanhee Chen, he's former Public Policy Director for Mitt Romney. Thanks to both of you guys, good to have you both on.

Kate, if I could begin with you because you've written so much about Melania Trump, her role in this administration. She is going to speak tonight from the rose garden that she put some pretty dramatic changes to. What will be her goal this evening? We've seen first ladies in the past sort of try to humanize the candidate. Tell us do you expect the same tonight from Melania?

KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, absolutely, especially with Donald Trump. And we see this big empathy gap with him, right, and we're dealing with this pandemic. What Melania needs to do is what Laura Bush did in 2004 and Michelle Obama did in 2012.

And if you (INAUDIBLE) speeches, she talks -- they both talked about how their husbands are grappling with these enormous issues, and Laura Bush talked at the time about watching her husband from the residence, watching him on the south lawn as he was dealing with Saddam Hussein. So (INAUDIBLE) of being the person closest to the president, who sees them. Michelle Obama talks about Barack Obama (INAUDIBLE) from people struggling.

I think that Melania Trump needs to give us some insight into Donald Trump as a human being, as somebody who cares about people who are sick and dying and losing their jobs. We just don't see that.

SCIUTTO: Yes, we'll see if she can.

Lanhee Chen, you have the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, making a rare address to the RNC. Traditionally, secretaries of state would not do so. And there has been a reminder to state department employees to not improperly engage this department of state in the political process. Why that rule for employees, not the secretary of state, and how unusual is this?

LANHEE CHEN, FORMER PUBLIC POLICY DIRECTOR FOR MITT ROMNEY: Well, I think secretaries of state have addressed the conventions in their role as former secretaries of state, in other words, after they finish the job, they will come back to endorse a candidate, they'll come back to talk about the foreign policy of that candidate. So this will be a departure from previous conventions to be sure.

I think the goal tonight is very similar to what it was last night, which is this notion of the president saying he's going to do some things in foreign policy and then trying to talk about the president's record. And I think that, in general, Jim, has been the focus in this convention. It's been a retrospective look at the president's record. It's been an effort to say, think about the things the president did, not so much talking about things the president will do, not so much talking about the agenda looking ahead but really looking back.

SCIUTTO: I mean, not talking at all, right? I mean, Kate, there's no platform, which is kind of remarkable, basically just saying, you know, whatever the president does, we back going forward, whether with foreign or domestic policy.

BROWER: I mean, it is certainly surprising and this is kind of a cult of personality built around Donald Trump, right? And yet we don't really know what he's like behind the scenes.

I was also struck at the convention last night that a lot of people said, look, he can lash out on Twitter. That's just the way he is. He can be very tough.

They are recognizing that a lot of Republicans I think feel really deeply uncomfortable with the rhetoric coming from the White House, but this is their best option, they think.

SCIUTTO: Lanhee, what is the record, right, if you talk about foreign policy or domestic policy? I mean, we saw, for instance, on coronavirus, a celebration of the administration's response when you look at comparison to other nations around the world. It just doesn't hold up in foreign policy and elsewhere. What is the essential argument, right, we got this right and here is why you should re-elect him?

CHEN: Well, I think that's exactly it, Jim. I think the argument is if you look around the world, there are places where the president has acted or tried to act in a way to try to increase the national security of the U.S., as well as to deal with difficult situations.

They point to the Middle East and talk about the destruction of the ISIS caliphate. They would go and say that the discussions with North Korea were productive, even though they haven't necessarily produced a whole lot yet. They would talk about getting tough on China, which is a big part of what have this administration has tried to make the centerpiece of their foreign policy.

And I think if you were to press them on what they wanted to do looking ahead, they would say, that is the single biggest challenge America faces and the single biggest thing the administration wants to do going forward, which is to continue to press the case against China.

[10:25:10]

You heard it last night. You're going to hear it repeatedly this week.

SCIUTTO: I mean, if you look at the record though, North Korea has more, not fewer nuclear weapons after four years, Iran is closer, not further from a nuclear weapon than they were at the start of this.

Kate, there was a moment last night that was particularly touching, and this was Senator Tim Scott speaking about his own experience in America, and I want to play that again and just get a sense of who this is making an appeal to. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Our family went from cotton to Congress in one lifetime. And that's why I believe the next American century can be better than the last.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Tell us about that appeal there, to independent voters as opposed to the base?

BROWER: Yes. I think that was a rare moment last night when we saw a real outreach to people who are undecided. And we also saw more diversity, I think, than we've seen in a lot of conventions in the past. And so hearing about his personal struggle and his personal, you know, background and history is important.

I also thought the father of the Parkland shooting victim was a really moving moment last night. I think that they need to get those personal stories and tell us what the president is like when he meets with people who have lost family members.

You know, we don't see that side of him at all. We don't even see him playing with his son on the south lawn, like we've seen so many other (INAUDIBLE). So they need to make that point tonight.

SCIUTTO: Right, and see how the facts back it up. Kate Andersen Brower and Lanhee Chen, thanks very much.

Our special coverage of the Republican National Convention continues tonight starting at 7:00 Eastern live on CNN.

Hurricane Laura is now in the warm waters, the very warm waters of the gulf. It could become a major hurricane by the time it reaches the shores of Louisiana and Texas. We will update you on its path. That's coming up.

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