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Two Dead, One Injured in Overnight Shooting in Kenosha; Hurricane Laura Rapidly Intensifies, Closes in on Gulf Coast. Aired 9- 9:30a ET

Aired August 26, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Been on the streets overnight in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Reports, accounts coming out of there, they're conflicting. The view of the violence on the street, though, very concerning.

Let's take a look at that then we'll tell you what we know at this point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clear the area. Multiple shooters. Call on the alarm. Clear the area now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: You hear the gunshots there. Goodness. It sounds like it's coming from a warzone. This is near a gas station in Kenosha. Of course you heard the police there attempting to clear the area.

Right now this is what we know. Two people have been shot and killed. Another person is in the hospital with serious injuries, and here's where it gets particularly concerning. "The New York Times" is reporting that there were confrontations between protesters and a group of armed individuals, not members of police or law enforcement. The sheriff has told the "Milwaukee Journal Sentinel" that those were vigilantes that had been patrolling the streets before the shootings.

This is the third night of unrest in that city following the police shooting of Jacob Blake, a black man who's shot in the back in front of his three young children. We're going to have a live report from Wisconsin on what we're learning, the latest we know in just a moment.

But we have this other news. Following breaking news as Hurricane Laura is rapidly intensifying as it barrels towards the Gulf Coast. Now a category 3 hurricane it is rolling over very warm waters there. That intensifies these storms. It is now forecast to grow into an extremely dangerous category 4 later today before making landfall. That is just a deadly, dangerous combination.

Also this. Hard questions of ethics violations as the administration multiple times used the power of the office for political gains. Something that is prohibited by law. The Republican National Convention in full swing and the party's message on the Trump presidency just at odds with reality.

We're going to break down the highlights and the facts of what we know and what was said there, but first, let's begin with that first story we're following today. CNN's Sara Sidner is in Kenosha, Wisconsin, on the latest on these shootings overnight.

So, Sara, I know that it is difficult to discern at this point exactly who was shooting at whom. What do we know at this hour?

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, what we have seen is some very clear video of one of the people who was shooting. It is stark, it is disturbing. You see a man with what appears to be an AR- style rifle strapped across his chest walking straight down the middle of the street. And then you hear shots ring out. There are people chasing him, saying he just shot somebody. He just shot somebody.

That man then trips and falls on his own in the middle of the street. Starts to turn. People are coming at them, looking like the protesters were trying to grab him themselves because they were saying he had just shot someone. And he fires the gun. He hits someone. That person falls to the ground. You see him fire again. Very close range at someone else. He then gets up, walks down the street and police are coming towards him.

He has his rifle, his long gun, strapped across his chest. He walks up to police officers who are rolling past him and literally three officers in vehicles, huge vehicles roll right past him while he's got his hands up with a long gun strapped across his chest after he had just fired -- you can see him at least twice firing at people who were coming towards him. One of them laying on the ground in the street.

We now know that there are two people have been shot and killed. We know that the sheriff has talked to the "Milwaukee Journal" and that sheriff saying that there were militia members in the streets that trolling around this town and he called this vigilantism. We do not know if this man with the long gun was a part of any kind of militia. We do know what we saw with our own eyes in that video and I was able to talk to a witness just a few moments ago who said that they saw this all unfold, and were extremely disturbed about this.

Also, angry that here you have a man who is armed, a white man armed, and the police let him walk right by them, even though it appears he is going towards them with his hands up as if he is surrendering. So a lot of questions here but we should also mention this is all happening surrounding the shooting of Jacob Blake who is now paralyzed from his waist down. He was shot seven times in the back.

In that case people are saying he had no long gun, he had no visible gun at all. And here he still gets shot in the back while this man who has just shot someone did not get apprehend. There is a manhunt currently under way -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Sarah, and again, I know you're still reporting this out, but just to be clear from what you saw in that video and speaking to witnesses, that person with the long gun, not a member of law enforcement, a civilian? [09:05:13]

SIDNER: Yes, from what we know, and this is also sort of coming from the words of the sheriff who has not returned our calls but who has talked to the "Milwaukee Journal," that he used the word vigilantes. People who are not members of the police or the sheriff's department, who have taken things into their own hands and, you know, there's a lot of concern about that now because the sheriff is saying there are militia members out here. I myself saw folks out here carrying weapons on their hips, sort of looking around and assessing the situation and what they're saying is, you should leave this up to the law enforcement to deal with what is going on here.

SCIUTTO: Of course.

SIDNER: But, yes, at this point in time, we have no indication that this person was a member of any of the law enforcement offices here in Kenosha.

SCIUTTO: Right. Listen, Sara, I know you're going to keep working it. Thanks very much.

And folks, we're going to bring you information as it comes. We want to know it before we report it.

Joining me now is CNN law enforcement analyst, Charles Ramsey. He's the former Philadelphia police commissioner as well as former police chief here in Washington, D.C.

Chief Ramsey, good to have you here.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: There's a lot we still don't know about the situation unfolding in Kenosha. But when you hear accounts of what appears to be a civilian patrolling the streets with an automatic or semiautomatic weapon, tell us your concerns about that combination.

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, it's not good, it's not good at all. And you're starting to see it more and more where these vigilantes, militia, whatever you want to refer to them as taking the law into their own hands.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

RAMSEY: Feeling as if they've got to, you know, take to the streets to protect -- I don't know what they call themselves protecting. But it is a dangerous situation. There's no question about it. I mean, you've seen them show up at state capitols, you see them on the streets.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

RAMSEY: Some -- things like this which is just bound to eventually happen and so we've got to find the balance. I mean, people's right to have and bear arms certainly, but to bring those arms to a protest? Again, you know, you start to wonder whether or not that makes any sense. And so you have things like this take place. Fortunately, there's a pretty good video of the guy running down the streets so they should be able to I.D. hopefully anyway and apprehend him. But this is a troubling situation.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, maybe after he's killed or horribly injured people.

RAMSEY: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And you're right, we've seen this. We saw heavily armed people going to the statehouse in Wisconsin -- in Michigan, rather. We saw them at other protests weeks ago.

OK, what do police need to do now? Because you do have a crisis of confidence particularly in black communities here. Here is another shooting, the circumstances of which concerning to say the least. And if you have vigilantes on the streets as well -- you've led the police departments in two major cities, what do they need to do right now to keep the peace?

RAMSEY: Well, there's a couple of things. First of all, information needs to get out around the circumstances surrounding the shooting. It's been, what, three days now? And there's still been no real information. Now I believe the state police has taken over the investigation. I don't know if the communications lapses is on their part or not. But they've got to get information out, whether that information is good, bad or whatever. They need to get something out to let people know exactly what's going on.

The second thing as far as the protests go, I know there's a curfew. People need to pay attention to that curfew. It is not safe and whatever resources they have off their own street, whether it's police, state police, local police, National Guard, they need to beef it up. They've got to get a handle on this because the next step unfortunately could very well be people that are protesting feel like they need to be armed in order to protect themselves. Then you've got other people, this militia or vigilante out there with guns. I mean, absolutely nothing good can come from that.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

RAMSEY: So they've got to tamp this down. They've got to shut it down. And there's no other way to describe it. I mean, public safety is key. I understand people's right to protest and so forth and there will still be some people out there protesting but there needs to be a very heavy, heavy police presence.

SCIUTTO: Finally, just before I let you go, as a former police officer with decades in uniform, what can you tell or know from looking at the video what we've seen so far regarding the shooting of Jacob Blake?

RAMSEY: Well, there's one video that shows a struggle taking place just before the shooting. So he's clearly resisting arrest but resisting arrest by itself does not justify the use of deadly force. And so they follow him around, he opens the car door. One officer seems to be pulling at him and then someone opens fire. I don't know if it's that officer or his partner who opens fire.

Unless there's a gun that they can clearly see, he's reaching for a gun or whatever, I don't see where the use of deadly force was justified.

[09:10:02]

I mean, it needs to be reasonable, necessary and certainly proportional. And unless there's something that we aren't seeing on this video, then they're going to be hard pressed to call this a justified shooting. Whether it's criminal or not, that's up to a district attorney to determine, but this is going to be one that is very, very questionable and in my opinion from what I see now, without any more evidence, would be an unjustified deadly use of force.

SCIUTTO: Charles Ramsey, thanks very much. It's always good to have your experience to help us understand these things.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: To the other developing story this morning, there's a lot of news, and this is Hurricane Laura. It has intensified and rapidly. Now a major category 3 storm. It could hit the Gulf Coast as an extremely dangerous category 4 storm. That later today.

We have team coverage tracking the system. First let's go to CNN meteorologist Chad Myers. He's in the CNN Weather Center.

Chad, as this lays out exactly as you laid out yesterday, right, those warm waters. it gets stronger, it intensifies as it gets closer, what is it going to look like when it hits land?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, it's going to look like a category 4 storm. It's going to have a storm surge of 15 feet, maybe even higher because now the bubble of water is truly building. It's going to be like Bay St. Louis and Waveland and Biloxi when we had Katrina. The water is just going to push onshore. I've already seen some pictures here in the bayous of Louisiana where the water is already up past the fishing docks and over them. And people were thinking they're going to stay.

If you're in these areas that I show you, you need to leave now. It's going to be that dangerous. There's going to be so much water with this storm. We know that the storm is getting stronger. 116 miles per hour was the latest fly through and at this time yesterday we were 70. And we had all those graphics about rapid intensification. What does it mean? Could it happen? Well, it did.

And now we're going to be at probably a cat 3, maybe losing a little strength right as it comes on shore tonight but the bubble of water will still be a category 4 bubble.

Here is what the rainfall is going to look like. You look around the eye itself. It's pretty big. About 30 miles around, but it's going to be spreading out. We are going to see significant wind damage and surge damage along the path of this. Even some wind damage to the left of the storm. We know it carries about the right. No, this even have some wind speeds over hurricane strength on the left side of the eye. The western eyewall. Because the whole thing is going to be 130.

So of course the west side is still going to have winds and there it goes all the way up to tropical storm force even up into Shreveport. And wind gusts of 110, 115, maybe up to 130, and all of this surge, all of this water, getting all the way to even Lake Charles.

This is a devastating storm, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. Seeing the storm surge already, that's alarming. Thanks very much, Chad Myers.

Derek Van Dam, he's in Beaumont, Texas, which is in the path of that storm.

I'm curious about preparations there. Are folks listening to the evacuation orders as we already see storm surge rising?

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Well, mandatory evacuations here in Jefferson County and Beaumont, Texas. People recognize the dangers that major Hurricane Laura poses because they remember Hurricane Harvey, they remember Rita, they remember Ike. And they know from previous lessons that they need to take this storm seriously. And they know that this is not the same storm that they went to bed with last night because it has changed as Chad just described.

And this particular location is so vulnerable to storm surge and localized flash flooding as well, but the hurricane preparations here are on a different scale. Something people have never done before, experienced amongst the backdrop of a global pandemic, so this is really changing things and it's complicating the evacuation efforts and complicating the decisions for the residents who are located here.

Even though there's mandatory evacuations, people are still weighing up the options, do I shelter in place at home? Am I safer there because of COVID-19? Or do I leave and move to an area where there could be large gatherings of people? That's what people are weighing up right now.

I have spoken to individuals who are gathering all the available supplies, doing whatever they can to prepare for Hurricane Laura and its arrival tonight. It's amazing to think that we're starting our day with sunshine and we are going to be ending our day with a potential for hurricane-force winds, maybe topping 100 miles per hour, right where I'm located here.

But the level of coordination, Jim, is amazing. I visited the FEMA National Incident Command Center at the Ford Arena here. And they have ambulances lined up, charter buses as well as communication vehicles and swift water rescue boats ready to be deployed at a moment's notice.

Back to you.

SCIUTTO: Calm before the storm as they say. Derek Van Dam, thank you very much. Good to have you there.

VAN DAM: Right.

SCIUTTO: Please be safe.

Also this morning, and we know there's a lot to digest, a major shift from the CDC. New guidelines say people may not need to be tested even if they have been exposed to the virus. That's a change. A big one.

CNN's Elizabeth Cohen joins me now with more.

Elizabeth, we've seen a lot of changes from the CDC lately. What's going on here? Of course there's a requisite question, is there political influence or they're following the science here?

[09:15:00]

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN HOST: Jim, you really do have to ask if there's political pressure. That's a really good question because they haven't noted any scientific changes. There haven't been changes that would point to this. They didn't say that in their statement. What they're saying now is if you don't have symptoms you don't necessarily need testing which is so perplexing given that we've been talking for months about how up to 50 percent of transmission of this virus is by people who do not have symptoms.

Why would you not want them to be tested; it is quite puzzling. So let's take look at exactly what happened with the CDC. Here's what they were saying before; testing is recommended for all close contacts of persons with SARS-CoV-2 infection. Up close contact is defined as within six feet for 15 minutes or more of someone who has coronavirus. What they're saying now is; if you have been in close contact within six feet of a person with a COVID-19 infection for at least 15 minutes but do not have symptoms you do not necessarily need a test unless you are a vulnerable individual. Meaning elderly or underlying conditions or your healthcare provider or state or local public health officials recommend you take one.

So basically they're kind of punting to the doctors or to state or local health officials to make this decision when the experts will all tell you; you need to get a test if you've been in close contact; it doesn't matter if you don't have symptoms. Jim.

SCIUTTO: That's remarkable considering of course it's been proven there is asymptomatic transmission of this. We'll continue to follow that I'm sure it's confusing for people at home. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.

Still to come this hour; a Trump campaign official says that Vice President Mike Pence will quote "take some lumber to Joe Biden during the convention tonight. How will the vice president handle a somewhat unfamiliar role of attack dog. An NBA player is discussing boycotting games following the shooting of Jacob Blake. Now one of the NBA star coaches, Doc Rivers is not holding back. Ahead we're going to hear his power statement. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. You may have noticed that it was a tale of two presidents last night. The one of the four years and the one described by the first lady in a speech that drew positive reviews from many. Melania Trump said quote "total honesty is what we as citizens deserve from our president". Yes "The Washington Post' fact checker shows the president has in fact surpassed 20,000 lies or misleading statements during his time in office.

In mid-July she said quote "we must remember that today we are one community comprised of many races, religions and ethnicities". Yes, again, this president has in fact instituted a Muslim ban. He's detained immigrant children at the southern border, tear gassed Black Lives Matter protestors outside the White House for a photo-op.

Another note; she said quote "how mean and manipulative social media can be" ignoring the attacks her husband regularly launches on social media. Which America will voters see?

Joining me now former House Intelligence Committee Chairman, Mike Rogers and "Wall Street Journal" National Politics Reporter, Sabrina Siddiqui. Thanks to both of you. Sabrina, deep contracts between facts and the reality or the attempted coloring of reality as presented by the first lady last night. What's the intention here? Is this to reach undecided voters or rally the base?

SABRINA SIDDIQUI, WALL STREET JOURNAL, POLITICAL ANALYST: Well I think that typically with any first lady she can serve as a character witness to the President of the United States. And the biggest challenge for First Lady Melania Trump, as you pointed out, is everything she laid out in that speech really seeking to strike a more empathetic tone is disconnected from the reality of the Trump presidency.

It was certainly an effort to try and reach suburban women or moderate voters who are on the fence about given Preside Trump a second term. But if the overarching goal was to make the case for reelecting President Trump; in terms of the substance of her remarks she did touch upon two of the primary concerns for voters heading into the polls in November; the coronavirus pandemic and these protests over racial justice. But again, as you planned (ph) out her rhetoric simply did not match her husband's handling of those two concurrent crisis. And I think that's going to continue to be a problem for the speakers throughout this week including Vice President Mike Pence; who we're going to hear from tonight; is -- this painting a picture of a presidency that simply does not exist based on anything that we've seen in the past four years.

SCIUTTO: Mike Rogers, political expert but also law makers, republicans among them objected when the president suggest he would accept the nomination from the White House; he's going to go ahead and do that but he's done much more. And just in the last 24 hours, just in one night, we saw the president stage a naturalization ceremony from the White House. We saw the first lady speak from the Rose Garden, we saw the secretary of state doing something that for decades not the norm making an overtly political speech while on state business and the president as well issuing a pardon all part of a supremely choreographed campaign event.

I wonder, you served in office, tell us what's wrong with that?

MIKE ROGERS, FORMER HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well you know you're supposed to use taxpayer funded enterprises for political or campaigning efforts. And I - so this to me had a kind of political head scratcher for me and certainly an ethical one as well. And I'm not sure it's going to be worth all the investigation I hear crying about today. But I do think it's the factor that people should push back on and think about it.

[09:25:00]

I thought Melania Trump's speech last night was great and it's -- these events are supposed to try to appeal to our aspirations, our better instincts, how America can move forward. All of those things are important. I think she hit every note, matter of fact I hope she writes the president's speech for his acceptance speech. I think he would do well by that tone and tenor of that speech.

But the problem is everybody's focused on the fact that she did it from the White House. Same with Mike Pompeo, Secretary Pompeo, who - I still don't understand why they did it. I don't know if it added enough to get all this scrutiny that's going to come with. That's the substance and the policy. The politics of it weren't good. Does anyone know what Mike Pompeo said? No. All they're talking about today is that he gave a speech as the sitting secretary of state from Jerusalem.

And again that mantle of secretary of state is all about the American mantle. It's not a republican, it's not democrat, you're a public office; that's a servant role trying to get the American interest overseas looked after and help our friends and allies and win new friends and allies. Hard to do that when you're observed as a fierce partisan. And that's what I think they lost in trying to do it the way they did it.

SCIUTTO: There was a brief moment a couple of weeks ago, Sabrina Siddiqui, when you had republican law makers, John Thune among them, second ranking republican senator saying it's problematic. Simply for the president to deliver an acceptance speech from the White House. Now we've had I don't know a dozen events right from there that are explicitly part of the RNC as a campaign event.

Is there any republican concern expresses now? Or is this - is this done and dusted?

SIDDIQUI: Well that's what's been striking; republicans have been largely silent in that's been a theme throughout the Trump presidency where you do have a president who has used the powers of his office to advance his political agenda. Even last night when you look at the events at the RNC he used the naturalization ceremony as well as a pardon during what was a political event. The venue we've talked about just the fact that Melania Trump is speaking from the Rose Garden, that the president will accept his nomination from the White House.

But look if - so much has unfolded this year alone that it's hard to remember that the impeachment investigation was just earlier this year. And (ph) the time when republicans in fact voted to acquit the president even though the investigation at its core was about him using the powers of the presidency to try and invest his political opponents.

So in many ways I think that has really given this president a license to do whatever it is that he sees fit even if it is flouting the norms or a violation of ethics and there might be some investigations on the part of house democrats but there's very little of course they can do without having control of both chambers of Congress. And it certainly does however create precedent at some point down the road there may be another president who looks at President Trump as a model and a lot of these norms that we talked about may cease to exist.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean remember all the comments after impeachment that would be chasing (ph) by those events, obviously not. Sabrina Siddiqui, Mike Rogers, thanks to both of you. We'll keep of the conversation.

SIDDIQUI: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Anger and frustration pouring out of the sports world following the police shooting of a black man in Wisconsin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALE: All you hear is Donald Trump and all of them talking about fear. We're the ones getting killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Hear more of that emotional speech from NBA Head Couch Doc Rivers. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:00]