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CNN Reports, Trump Administration Pressured CDC To Abruptly Change Testing Guidance; Hurricane Laura Forecast To Hit U.S. As Category 4 Storm; Police Still Silent On Jacob Blake Shooting As Unrest Grows. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 26, 2020 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: I hope to see you back here this time tomorrow. And forget our special convention coverage tonight. Anderson Cooper picks up our coverage right now. Have a good day.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I'm Anderson Cooper. I want to welcome viewers in the United States and around the world.

When the president repeatedly suggested he wanted to slow down testing in America, it appear that has now become reality. CNN is learning the administration pressured the CDC to abruptly change its guidelines on who should be tested for coronavirus.

To give you a sense of just how much things have suddenly changed, take a look at this comparison the CDC website then and now. Previously, the agency recommended tests for, and I quote, all close contacts of persons with SARS-COV-2. Now, the CDC says, even if you have in close contact for at least 15 minutes but don't have symptoms, then you don't need a test, unless you're a vulnerable individual or advised to get one by a healthcare provider or public health official.

CNN's Sara Murray is in Washington with more. Sara, can you tell us how and why this happened? Because what's so startling about this is we all know the high numbers, high percentage of people who are positive and asymptomatic.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And we know how important testing and testing of those individuals has been for efforts like contact tracing and we've heard public health officials talk how this is so important to be able to get the virus under control, to be able to test, to be able to do contact tracing. And this seems like really contradictory guidance that we're getting from the CDC.

My colleague, Nick Valencia, Kristen Holmes and I are reporting that this is actually a directive that is coming from the top down. And we're not getting a lot more explanation of what exactly that means or why this change has been made. The CDC is not answering questions why it changed its own policy. In fact, it's just kicking these inquiries over to Health and Human Services. So we asked them, what's going on?

Brett Giroir gave us a statement said this, this guidance has been updated to reflect current evidence and best public health practices and to further emphasize using CDC-approved prevention strategies to protect yourself, your family and the most vulnerable of all ages. It doesn't say what this new evidence would be that would suggest this new change and a testing strategy.

And, Anderson, I got to tell you, you've been hearing it on the air this morning, the public health experts that I've talked to are just baffled by this. They do not see how this helps get the virus under control, whatsoever.

Now, we are expecting a media briefing with Giroir later this afternoon, where he will be answering more questions about this, including a number of questions about whether there was political pressure, what kind of political pressure and why you would do something like this essentially overnight without talking to states about it.

I got to tell you, Anderson, when I talked to health officials in the states today, they're really perplexed about why this change is made. And some of them say they're going to just keep going forward the way they were anyway and testing asymptomatic individuals because they believe that's the right move for them to get the virus under control.

COOPER: Yes. I mean, last I checked, the CDC was saying that 40 percent of people who are infected are, in fact, asymptomatic. So, if suddenly you're not testing people who don't show symptoms, that's a huge -- a huge percentage of infected people.

Sara Murray, thank you for the reporting.

Dr. Leana Wen is a CNN Medical Analyst and former Baltimore Health Commissioner. First, just your reaction to this reversal now on testing by the CDC. Does this make sense to you? And also, obviously, on the reporting that a, according to a senior official, pressure came from the, in that person's words, the top down.

LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Hey, Anderson. This doesn't make sense to me at all. It doesn't even pass a common sense sniff test. I mean, if you're exposed to a co-worker at work, you would want to make sure that you get tested so that you don't come back and infect people in your own family.

And we also know that testing is key to containing coronavirus along with wearing masks, along with social distancing. Testing is the reason why we then have contact tracing and quarantining and isolation. This is really not the path for us to go.

And I am also really worried why this all happened. It's inexplicable why this guidance suddenly changed. There is no science that we're aware of. There was no press briefing that announced the rationale behind this.

And now that there is talk about political pressure, I want to know more. I want to know what exactly was the reasoning. Is it to justify why we don't have enough tests? Is it the recognition that we're never going to get more tests and that's why that this was done? I want to know the reason here.

COOPER: Right. I mean, what's suspicious about this beyond just on its face of it seems to contradict everything that we have all been told and assured is true, is that it does favor the president's line about too much -- that there's too much testing going on and that the more you test, the more cases you find and, therefore, the numbers go up and I guess he feels that looks bad for him.

It's not as if this is -- I mean, this goes in -- it would make sense, pressure came from the top, because this goes -- this is now making science go in exactly the direction that the administration wants it, which is, oh, we don't need to test, you know, 40 percent of the people who are asymptomatic.

[13:05:16]

WEN: Right. And public health, we know that is exactly the opposite, that when you have 40 percent to 50 percent of spread, that's because of asymptomatic individuals. When many of these super-spreader events occurred because of somebody asymptomatic, we know that we have to find those individuals. We need far more testing, not less.

And so I really question the decision-making here and would hope that we get answers, because otherwise we are further eroding public trust, which is essential to containing this virus.

COOPER: Also the admiral, Brett Giroir -- I mean, again, not a Navy admiral, he's a public health official, he gets a title, admiral, and gets to wear a uniform. He said that the update -- it was updated to, and using his words would, reflect current evidence, which makes it sound as if, oh, well, they've learned some new things, some new studies have come out, some new peer-reviewed studies have come out and now they've just adjusted. Are you aware of any sudden, new evidence?

WEN: No, I'm not. I am aware that we don't have enough testing in this country. And all along, we've heard Admiral Giroir and others justify why it is that we don't have more tests. And I suspect that in the press conference later, that's what we're going to hear. We're going to hear justification of all the things that have been done. And, yes, we have increased testing capacity a lot but not nearly enough.

He has already said in a statement that the testing is to prioritize those who really need it, which is true. We really do need to prioritize older individuals, those in nursing homes, those who have symptoms, but why don't we have enough tests for everybody else? Let's stop justifying why we don't have tests and start actually getting them.

COOPER: I remember several weeks ago, and this just off the top of my head, I don't have it in front of me, but I interviewed a professor from Yale who had done a study. And they found -- and I'll double check this, but they had found that people who are asymptomatic actually when -- early on in their infection is when they spread a lot of the virus. That's when they're most capable of spreading the virus.

If that is the case, and then, again, you're not testing asymptomatic people, it's alarming.

WEN: That's right. And there have been a number of modeling and other studies looking at this. If you're symptomatic, you really should be staying at home. So you could be infecting those who are around you at home. But you should be staying at home.

So the spread that we're the most concerned about in society is actually the asymptomatic individuals because even if they're not as infectious as symptomatic people, because they are around a lot more individuals, and these are people who may stay asymptomatic or they may be pre-symptomatic, maybe they haven't developed symptoms yet but just don't know it, so they are unknowingly infecting others.

And we've all been saying, Anderson, how important it is for people to get tested before they go to school, before they go to work, that type of surveillance testing. Now, the federal government appears to be saying, not only let's not do surveillance testing but let's not even test those who are exposed to individuals who know that they have COVID-19. This, again, flies in the face of science and public health. It will really hampering our efforts to fight this disease.

COOPER: Dr. Leana Wen, thank you very much.

Turned to a monster storm, Hurricane Laura strengthening in the Gulf of Mexico, as it bears down on the Gulf Coast. The warm water in the gulf right now just providing more fuel and more speed for a storm the National Hurricane Center expected to be, quote, catastrophic, their word.

Residents in Texas and Louisiana are fleeing, trying to get out before it is too late. You can see some flooding already along the coast. But that is just the start. And the latest from the National Hurricane Center, they warn of, quote, unsurvivable storm surge.

Our Jennifer Gray is in the CNN Weather Center. So where is the storm now and what are you expecting? Because, I mean, those words that they're using are very drastic.

JENNIFER GRAY, CNN METEOROLOGIST: They are very drastic but they're very true. This is a very different storm than we were looking at yesterday. This a major storm Category 3. It could become a Category 4 before it makes landfall. And, again, I want to reiterate, this is not like a Harvey going to sit on top of one area for days and days, and so the biggest deal with this storm will be the rain.

This is going to be the wind and even more so the storm surge that's going to be so deadly with this storm, because it's hitting an area of the Gulf Coast that is so low-lying. Southwest Louisiana is very low- lying. So you could have water all the way up to I-10 easily in areas in Southwest Louisiana, and even Southeast Texas, Beaumont, for example, needs to pay close attention to this as well.

[13:10:05]

So 125 mile-per-hour winds right now, gusts 155 and more strengthening will occur before this storm makes landfall, moving to the northwest at 16 miles per hour.

Here is the storm surge threat, 15 to 20 feet in Southwest Louisiana, 10 to 15 on either side of that, even up into Galveston Bay, we're looking at two to four feet of storm surge. What does that look like? All of these areas shaded in red, that is the water inundation when you're talking about a storm surge that high, reaching I-10 in some places. you can see Cameron, Louisiana all the way under water, the water going past Port Arthur, Texas.

And so here is the high res forecast radar as of now. This can change. We know storms this big can wobble east and west. We are waiting on that turn. That turn to the north is what is going to protect places like Houston. This storm has not turned yet.

So through the afternoon, the storm is expected to turn to the north and that's going to put it on the east side of Houston, splitting the Texas/Louisiana border. Still a very significant storm by the time it makes it up to the Ark-La-Tex and places like Shreveport.

So here is the current track. Category 4 potentially making landfall, this has 145 mile-per-hour winds. We could see winds even higher and then dropping down, of course, once it reaches inland. But we are still want to be worried about the wind, the storm surge, most importantly, Anderson, as this makes landfall. And then as it goes inland, you're talking about rain, tornado potential and a whole other set of issues in the coming days.

COOPER: it has really grown. Jennifer Gray, thank you. We'll keep in touch.

The threat from Hurricane Laura isn't just on the coast but far inland. The storm surge expected to reach as far in as Lake Charles, Louisiana, some 40 miles from the coast. That's where our Gary Tuchman is waiting.

Gary, Louisiana's governor, John Bel Edwards, saying that wherever you are right now is where you will ride out the storm. What are you seeing there? Are people heeding the warnings?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, you know this is a hurricane-prone area. You and I were both in this region exactly 15 years ago when Hurricane Rita came through. People are taking heed that it is complicated because of COVID-19. A lot of people are scared to be with many other people.

Let me set the scene. This is the Calcasieu River here in beautiful Lake Charles, Louisiana. You see the bridge. That's Interstate 210 over there. You see over here the oil refineries. You see a city that will look a lot different just a few hours from now. How different? That remains to be seen.

You heard Jennifer just talk about Interstate 10. That overpass down though, that's Interstate 10. That's to our north. And that's where the surges could go to that could cause great catastrophe for the people who live here and for the residents. There's a lot of concern. There is a mandatory evacuation order is in effect. However, like most orders, you're not arrested if you don't go, particularly now, because of COVID-19. Basically, what the sheriff of this parish has said is, we recommend the mandatory evacuation order. It sounds like a contradiction. Either way, they do want people to take care.

A lot of people have decided to stay in their homes. There were buses provided throughout this parish yesterday and there were about 195,000 people who live here in Calcasieu parish and the buses were provided to take them north, in this direction away from the worst of the flooding to go into hotels and motels that are housing people who want to get away from this particular hurricane-prone area.

Anderson, back to you.

COOPER: It's literally the calm before the storm, Gary. Thank you very much being there. I appreciate it.

More breaking news. Protesters and armed vigilantes clashing in Kenosha, Wisconsin, after the police shooting of an unarmed black man. We'll speak with a witness who saw the unrest turned deadly.

Plus, how police are still silent on why an officer shot Jacob Blake and what happened in the moments before. This is CNN's special coverage.

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COOPER: In Kenosha, Wisconsin, violent unrest following the police shooting of Jacob Blake turning deadly overnight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, he shot him.

He shot that guy in the stomach.

People are getting shot all around us. People are just getting shot everywhere, guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Shots ringing out. Two people were shot and killed. One person remains in the hospital with serious injuries. Now, police are searching for a man who was seen in videos carrying a long gun and they say the investigation is active and ongoing.

When it comes to the shooting of Jacob Blake, there has been silence, so no clarity from the police department why Mr. Blake, a black man, was shot repeatedly in the back in front of his three young children.

Brendan Gutenschwager witnessed last night's shooting. Brendan, can you describe what it was like on the ground? Obviously, the video is chaotic. What did you see? BRENDAN GUTENSCHWAGER, KENOSHA SHOOTING WITNESS: It was just a very, very tense and a very dark scene out there. A lot of people walk around with baseball bats or metal poles, many people that were armed. And for the most part, people were just kind of walking past each other, commingling without issue, despite all of these open weapons, but at a certain point, something turned. I don't know what the precise altercation was, but fights started breaking outside. And before we knew it, there were shots being fired.

COOPER: So you said people with bats.

[13:20:01]

Is this a mix of both protesters? And, I mean, who's out there?

GUTENSCHWAGER: it starts out -- like, when you look at the crowds around 6:00 to 8:00 P.M., even going into like 9:00 P.M. you have a very much largely peaceful protest, people out there in the streets, they even see some kids around.

As the night goes on, and as things start to get more agitated between the police lines and the protest side, you start to see some of those like more of the families and the kids go away, they go home and it's more of a different crowd. Some people had been coming in from other states. I had seen people from Illinois, Michigan out here. So there's some of that happening as well. Yes, just basically, they converge. And overnight, really after 9:00 P.M., is where things start to heat up with that.

COOPER: And then the -- you were standing, I understand, about 15 feet away from one person who was shot. Can you walk us through what you saw?

GUTENSCHWAGER: So I had initially heard gunshots about a block away, and I had been going to different protests and stuff to cover this and, you know, get original videos on the scene there. So I ran towards it to see what was going on. As I approached, I saw a man that was lying on the ground, and there was another man that started running. People were immediately yelling at him, say, get him, grab him, he just shot somebody.

And so he's just running with his gun. That's about where I started recording. And he's taking off down the street as several people are following, chasing him, trying tackle him down. I don't know if the attempt was to get the gun or like subdue him specifically, but regardless, they were chasing after him. And at a certain point, he tripped and fell, the man with the gun. And so then as people started to close in on him and surround him, he started firing off at them.

And I know I saw at least two people get shot from those firings. There may have been a third one, some of the shots appeared to kind of fire off in a distance direction. And then, basically, the shooter just got up and proceeded to walk towards the line of police that were there in the bearcat and a couple of vehicles, and he basically just walked right up to them with the gun still out in front of them and spoke with them for a few seconds. I couldn't make out what he said. I know that after a few seconds, the cops were not happy with him standing that close. He was literally right outside of the cop car, which prior to that for the past two hours leading up to that it, anybody that got that close was getting fired at with tear gas or pepper bullets or something like that.

And he just basically talked to them. They told him to step away from the vehicle. And he continued walking and took off, basically. And then about two minutes later, more police arrived, actually like a crime scene and doing an investigation.

COOPER: Did you see any of these reported vigilantes that the Kenosha County sheriff says were kind of patrolling the area prior to this shooting?

GUTENSCHWAGER: Oh, absolutely. Yes. There were probably about a dozen that I saw, all open carrying, all with rifles or various different weapons, firearms. And the weird thing about it -- they had actually been out even yesterday as well. This wasn't the first night that I saw them. But they were commingling with the protesters.

But when people would ask them, like who are they, like what group are you, what are you out here for, they said, we're not anybody's friend. We're just here to protect the city. So, basically, not necessarily picking the side of protesters or police, just out there basically armed and ready to protect against property there. So they had taken up positions in front of various different gas stations, and they were kind of mobilized as the main protest group moved through the city, and taking up positions at different businesses.

So I was really confused as to who exactly they were and like what the specific business was they were protecting because they kept moving from place to place. And, eventually this, you know, at some point one of those individuals was about a block away from the main gas station, they were patrolling, ended up in some altercation and that's when all this just descended into chaos.

COOPER: And so the person with the long gun who got away and who shot, you believe, was one of these vigilantes or self-styled militia or whoever they may be?

GUTENSCHWAGER: Yes. I mean, I don't know if he himself was saying, I'm a vigilante, but I do know that I saw him throughout the night walking with this group of roughly a dozen, I would say, these militia-style individuals carrying either rifles or, you know, just like I said, various other weapons, open carrying, had bullet-proof --

[13:25:11]

COOPER: Yes. Brendan Gutenschwager, I appreciate your time and I appreciate you talking about what you saw. Thank you very much.

Chaos erupts at the meeting over the coronavirus as crowds show up without masks.

Plus, a former Trump official is speaking out, saying the president's mismanagement almost led the U.S. into war into twice. She joins me live.

And the RNC not -- apparently not vetting (ph) who is speaking or attending the convention after several participants spark controversy. More on that, ahead.

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