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Kenosha Police Chief Defends Armed Civilian Groups on Streets; Interview with Scott Walker about the Kenosha Protests; Medical Colleges Ask CDC to Reverse Changes on Testing Guidelines. Aired 1:30- 2p ET
Aired August 27, 2020 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:32:04]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Back to the breaking news, unrest and violence in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Protesters say they're demanding justice for Jacob Blake who was shot in the back by police officers seven times. In those protests, a 17-year-old from Illinois is accused of shooting and killing two people. He is now under arrest. He'll be in court on Friday.
It was a senseless act of violence but Kenosha's police chief has been talking and focusing on the people who were there in the first place, the people who defied the curfew.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF DAN MISKINS, KENOSHA POLICE: Everybody involved was out after the curfew. I'm not going to make a great deal of that but the point is the curfew is in place to protect. Had persons not been involved in violation of that perhaps the situation that unfolded would not have happened. So the last night a 17-year-old individual from Antioch, Illinois, was involved in the use of firearms to reserve -- excuse me, to resolve whatever conflict was in place. The result of it was two people are dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining me now is Kenosha County board of supervisor, Zach Rodriguez.
Mr. Rodriguez, thanks so much for being with us. I'm wondering what you think of how the police have handled both the aftermath of the Blake shooting and also the protests and the violence.
ZACH RODRIGUEZ, BOARD SUPERVISOR, DISTRICT 8, KENOSHA COUNTY, WISCONSIN: Thanks for having me today. The police I think have done as much as the guys on the ground can do. Our day-to-day police officers. I think what we've seen here is failed leadership mostly on the part of Sheriff Beth here in Kenosha, not doing everything he could to assist his deputies as well as the city police officers.
COOPER: What more do you think could have been done? RODRIGUEZ: I think what needed to have happened is the sheriff needed
to declare a state of emergency Sunday night right away when, you know, we knew that these protests were going to happen. We hoped they didn't get violent. He waited until the wee hours of Monday morning to do that and then we looked to the governor and the governor refused help from the federal government when we needed it very clearly after Monday night.
COOPER: The governor did send in the National Guard. The sheriff said communication wires were crossed I guess with the governor's office and that they had actually failed to request the National Guard when they thought they had.
There was a Facebook group calling for citizens to arm themselves and to come down to the protests they said to maintain order, protect property. Is that something you think is a good idea?
RODRIGUEZ: I don't think people need to go down to a place where we know there's going to be conflict with their firearms but I've got nothing wrong with business owners protecting their business if they feel the police can't do that. I spoke with constituents in my district who called me the next day and said, I called 911, you know, as my gas station or as my business was getting broken into and I was told we didn't have enough officers to respond.
[13:35:01]
And so for those people I've got no issue with that. Protect your business, protect your livelihood but I don't think we need people going to the scenes of protest. I think that adds more confusion than anything.
COOPER: There was another curfew last night. It's intended to curb the protest. If people are out there saying they're protecting businesses who are armed, they're also violating the curfew. It seemed like there's a number of videos on social media of police giving water to some of the armed groups, white armed groups or individuals who said they're there to maintain order. Is that appropriate?
RODRIGUEZ: You know, I don't know that it is appropriate or not. I will say this. You know, the sheriff commented saying that his deputies would give water bottles to anybody but I think it is very clear, you and I. I would say, have not seen any videos of sheriff's deputies and police officers or federal law enforcement giving water bottles to protesters whether those protesters are peaceful or not.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, there's a video of somebody in a police vehicle praising the, you know, alleged vigilantes or whatever you want to call them, citizens. Again, we haven't independently confirmed the video but it's certainly out there.
Zach Rodriguez, I appreciate your time. Thank you. I'm sorry for what your community is going through.
RODRIGUEZ: Thank you for having me.
COOPER: Let's hope it resolves.
Ahead, a FOX host appears to defend this, the suspected gunman saying it's not surprising he took up arms to, quote, "maintain order."
Plus, Speaker Nancy Pelosi says Joe Biden should not debate President Trump which Biden quickly rejected.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:41:28]
COOPER: Kenosha is still reeling after several nights of chaos, one of which left two people dead and one seriously injured. Authorities took a 17-year-old man from Illinois into custody, charged him with first- degree intentional homicide. The Kenosha police chief called the killing senseless violence. Comments about the alleged shooter by FOX News host, Tucker Carlson, have been making headlines today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: People in charge, from the governor of Wisconsin on down, refused to enforce the law. They stood back and they watched Kenosha burn. So are you really surprised that looting and arson accelerated to murder? How shocked are we that 17-year-olds with rifles decided to had to maintain order when no one else would?
Everyone could see what was happening in Kenosha. It was getting crazier by the hour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, the mother of Jacob Blake, the man shot seven times in the back by a police officer which has sparked protests in the first place, she has days ago appealed for an end to violence and the rioting.
Joining me now former Republican governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker.
Governor Walker, thanks so much for being with us. I'm sorry it is under these circumstances. We know the 17-year-old charged with murder.
SCOTT WALKER (R), FORMER WISCONSIN GOVERNOR: Thank you.
COOPER: Is it a good idea to encourage armed civilians to come to these protests?
WALKER: No. We need to listen to what Jacob Blake's mother said the other day and diffuse the situation here. If anything Kenosha needs more local, state law enforcement officers to restore peace and order to that community. We don't need nobody from outside of the state whether or not it's someone who thinks they're part of a militia or for that matter rioters. In either case they're only enflaming an already very, very dangerous situation.
COOPER: When the president and vice president, they -- you know, during the convention have repeatedly talked about lawlessness and violence in the streets, The McCloskeys who are facing charges for pointing their guns at Black Lives Matter protesters walking by their house, they were given a primetime speaking slot this week.
Are you concerned at all that that encourages the exact opposite of what you just said? I mean, encourages others to take up arms and go confront protesters?
WALKER: So I think we can walk and chew gum. Meaning, we can have two different concerns. We heard Tim Scott talk on Monday night. That's one of the best speeches at the convention. He talked about a number of things but one of those was the bill he's been working on for years to provide comprehensive law enforcement reform. Unfortunately, that failed. I wish a lot more people would put their time and energy behind passing that bill. At the same time, we need to have law and order.
You know, the Kenosha News, a paper that actually endorsed by opponent when I first ran so not a conservative paper, pointed out, they said this over the governor. Evers' statement on Sunday fueled the fire before any rioters got here. His insufficient respond has put a Wisconsin city and its residents in danger. Now he needs to do everything the state can to help Kenosha and protect its citizens.
That's what we're hearing on the governor. What the governor, a Democrat, said on Sunday they say only fueled what we saw on the streets. Joe Biden jumped on this as well. And it was after three nights of rioting and two deaths that finally he and other Democrats in the state finally said something about the violence. That's a leadership desk.
We ultimately need to say, hey, if you didn't like what you saw on the video and I think people, myself and others were very discouraged about what happened on that video, although there's an independent investigation. We need to get the full picture before we jumped to conclusions but we cannot at the same time ignore the fact that all too often these things lead to violent acts and we cannot have that in Kenosha or anywhere else in America.
COOPER: Yes. If -- which you pointed out, the governor is the one who replaced you as governor of Wisconsin.
[13:45:04]
WALKER: He did.
COOPER: But if the McCloskeys are being held up as heroes by the RNC for, you know, taking guns outside their home and pointing them at protesters and frankly at each other, while protesters are walking by their house, if you're holding them as heroes, doesn't --
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: On a private road. On private -- Anderson, on private property. They weren't walking down a public street. They were walking down private property. But I think overall what we need in Kenosha is what we need --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: But if you're holding those people up as heroes for pointing guns at peaceful protesters --
WALKER: And we need to calm people down.
COOPER: If you're holding somebody up as heroes for, without provocation, pointing guns at protesters who are not threatening you, doesn't that encourage some 17-year-old who wants to be in law enforcement and you know, God bless him for wanting to --
WALKER: No. Not -- Anderson, that is a --
COOPER: For, you know, wanting to be a good citizen.
WALKER: No, Anderson, that's a complete --
COOPER: But that's not heroic, is it?
WALKER: Anderson, that's a complete distortion. The fact is they were on private property after days and days and weeks and weeks of seeing so-called peaceful protesters who's involved into riots, where they burnt down buildings, were here in Wisconsin, they assaulted a state senator, a Democrat, on our state capitol. There's a --
COOPER: It was a peaceful protest outside the McCloskeys as they were walking by the street. They weren't even going in the McCloskeys' house.
WALKER: On private property going through a gate that said private property, no trespassing, so it's clear, it's kind of like the headline the other day when CNN was reporting in Kenosha that said fiery but peaceful protests. And you can see the flames. You could see the city engulfed in flames behind it.
COOPER: Right.
WALKER: I think this is why so many people are discouraged with so many of the things they see in the media. They can see it with their own eyes.
COOPER: Right.
WALKER: They can see that these are not peaceful protests which are all right.
COOPER: Right. And by the way, you saw that because --
WALKER: I'm all for peaceful protest.
COOPER: Right. You saw that because we had a reporter --
WALKER: I'm all for peaceful protest. COOPER: We had a reporter there who was pointing out the vehicle on
fire behind him so it's not as if he's standing there saying this is peaceful and there's a fiery vehicle behind him as you just declared. He's pointing it out that the vast majority --
WALKER: But we just didn't see one. We saw this --
COOPER: Sir, I was talking to him at the time.
WALKER: We saw businesses burnt to the ground.
COOPER: So let me explain to you because maybe you didn't actually see it. You just got a memo about it. He was talking about how during the day --
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: No, I saw it. I saw it live.
COOPER: During the day --
WALKER: I saw what was going on in Kenosha.
COOPER: If you let me finish, I'm telling you what was said.
WALKER: There were hundreds and hundreds of people --
COOPER: That the peaceful --
WALKER: I could see it with my own eyes. There were hundreds of buildings burned to the ground.
COOPER: That the protests were peaceful during the day and he pointed out -- yes, sir. That happened later that night while he was on the air, he was pointing to a burning vehicle saying this vehicle was set on fire. But that earlier in the day until night fall generally the protests are peaceful and then they turned as it gets dark. That's what he was saying.
WALKER: And you're right about that, and that's why I've been upset about Governor Evers, about other officials and even about Joe Biden talking about what happened which they have every right to do but not saying this cannot devolve into violence. That's what --
COOPER: Right. I understand your concern.
WALKER: And they didn't push back on this. Really Joe Biden didn't until after three days which I would contend is probably sadly after he saw the focus groups and polling here in Wisconsin that showed that people want justice, they want reform in law enforcement but they don't want riots. They want leaders who stand up.
We had this situation three years ago here in Wisconsin where we had what could have evolved into this in Milwaukee. The mayor, I reached out to, the sheriff I reached out to. The mayor didn't want support. The sheriff did and we took action. COOPER: I just think at a time like this only pointing out what you
say are Democratic failures which I understand wanting Joe Biden to say something that he hasn't said but not actually pointing out silence, you know, you said silence is complicity on Democrats' part. You know, the president has not even addressed the shooting of Mr. Blake.
Now I understand there's an ongoing investigation and it's very important that that investigation because for all we know some circumstances may arise that would more fully inform everybody's opinion about what happened because we would know, you know, what preceded this or what was in the officer's minds or did this person have a gun? Did this person have a weapon? Which seems the police say -- looks like we lost your signal.
Well, we apologize for the signal loss but we appreciate Governor Walker's time. Sorry. Live television.
Medical experts are calling for the CDC to immediately reverse changes to COVID-19 testing guidelines. Their main concern, next. And also breaking news, the NBA season will continue a day after players boycotted the games. Now the White House is taking aim at players.
[13:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Infectious disease groups are calling for immediate reversal of changes to CDC testing guidelines for coronavirus. On Monday, the agency quietly made the revisions, including removing their recommendation for testing asymptomatic people even if they've come into contact with someone who has the virus.
CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now.
So what are these groups saying?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, essentially, what these groups are saying is, CDC what were you thinking? Of course people who are asymptomatic need to be tested if they've been in close contact with someone who has COVID-19. Even though they're asymptomatic, they still need to be tested.
So let's take a look at what the Infectious Disease Society is saying. As you mentioned, they're calling for a reversal of the CDC's decision. They said, "Identifying individuals infected with COVID-19 even if they are asymptomatic is critical to support appropriate isolation and identification of contacts to limit spread and to provide the data-driven comprehensive view of community spread needed to inform effective public health responses. In other words, they're saying, if we don't know who's positive, how do we know who to isolate?
[13:55:02]
And then we trace your contacts. But if we don't even know that person is positive, how do we take those next steps -- Anderson.
COOPER: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
New details about the alleged gunman in a deadly shooting during protests in Wisconsin. His online footprint, we'll show you what it shows. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
COOPER: I'm Anderson Cooper. Want to welcome viewers here in the U.S. and around the world.
After historic unprecedented walkout by the NBA in response to racial injustice in America, the league has agreed to resume playoff games. While the NBA led the charge, they were quickly joined by the majority of professional sports world including the WNBA, Major League Baseball and more. The latest call to action stems from the shooting of a black man Jacob Blake, who was shot seven times in the back by police in Wisconsin.
All of this as we learned new details about the 17-year-old who's now been arrested and charged with first-degree intentional homicide in connection to a deadly shooting in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in the midst of protests. He's a former member of a youth police cadette program. His Facebook page reveals his affinity for President Trump. Reports indicate he was part of an armed militia.
And police are now investigating this video which was taken just moments after the shooting to see if this, in fact, is him walking armed and toward police with his hands up.
CNN's Drew Griffin is following it all for us.
Drew, what more have you learned about the shooter?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
