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Trump Focuses on American Chaos Even Though Happening on His Watch; Trump Grants Full Pardon to Criminal Reform Advocate Who Spoke at RNC; Biden's Convention Speech Gets Better Ratings Than Trump's; Kenosha Police Says Jacob Blake was Charged with Sex Assault at Time of Shooting; Thousands Gather for March on Washington; Few Face Masks and No Social Distancing at Last Night's RNC at the White House. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired August 28, 2020 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

SOPHIA NELSON, FORMER HOUSE GOP INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE COUNSEL: Talk to your base, you can talk about what your party believes in. But I have a big problem with a sitting president who's sitting on his watch and has this type of racial and civil unrest. Not mentioning the young man's name. Say his name. Jacob Blake. Talk about it. If you want to talk about law and order, fine. We all believe in law and order.

But what about the causes of why the people are protesting? What about the vigilante who shot protesters who are unarmed? That young man's life now is ruined. He's murdered some people. So he made a bad choice on his Facebook or whatever has incited to him to this violence. For the president not to address that is negligence and it's malfeasance. And it's dividing our country deeper.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: It's interesting because on the one hand, the message coming from the White House this last week has been there's chaos in American cities. There's lawlessness and only the president can make it right, only the president can bring law and order, when in fact he is overseeing right now this very -- what he describes as chaos and lawlessness. So he's trying to have it both ways.

On the one hand he's saying this is all happening and I'm needed in order to set it right when in fact he is in a position of power and if he has some magic solution for setting it right, he could do that now.

NELSON: You know, Anderson, that's exactly right. It's a little bit silly, right, for me to tell you I wrecked something or I caused something, but I'm not the person that should fix what I broke. I don't think that works. And I think that in this context, a better message for him is, I'm going to bring the country together. We've seen unrest, we've seen civil disturbance. In Charlottesville in 2017, that's when this all started. The both sides thing.

So this president has dropped the ball on this. Dividing America. He has embraced the Confederate flag. He has embraced the confederacy. He has embraced traders to their country and said that they are the people he will defend. These are dead people from 150-year statutes, and that's where he comes down. So he was just wrong not to mention what's happening on our streets and why he can talk about law and order, he can support the police.

We all support the police. But we also support freedom of speech in this country. We also support the right to protest. For him to say that he's the only guy who can fix when broke is stupid. It's just so --

COOPER: Sophia Nelson, appreciate your time. Thank you.

NELSON: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: We have a lot more ahead. It is just half an hour after 2:00. The president moments ago granting a full pardon to Alice Johnson, a criminal justice reform advocate.

I want to go to our chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta who's standing by.

Jim, what is the backstory here?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes, Anderson. This came up very suddenly. I was in the White House for just a few moments ago and we were brought in to the Oval Office where the president was sitting down with Alice Johnson. He commuted her prison sentence back in 2018. And the president suddenly announced he is issuing Alice Johnson a full pardon.

So she has now been pardoned by the president of the United States. You can see some of the video right now. She became very emotional during this photo-op. It almost seemed to catch her by surprise. But I will tell you, Anderson. This happened very quickly. It was over in about four or five minutes. And at the very end of the photo-op, I as well as other reporters in the room tried to ask the president about the march on Washington, about police brutality, about systemic racism.

And he just did not answer our questions, and you could hear the White House wranglers, those aides who come in to deal with the press, shouting over top of us, you know, shouting over top of our questions, and rushing us out of the room. And so the president, I think, and his team are trying to do some damage control as your previous guest mentioned when it comes to this issue of race as the president heads into the -- you know, the main chunk of this general election campaign cycle.

But no question about it, they are looking to Alice Johnson repeatedly, did it last night at the Republican convention, doing it today in the Oval Office, to help the president on this issue of race and to show that he cares about issues like criminal justice reform, even if his critics will say he is just woefully inadequate on the issues of systemic racism and police brutality and others.

Recall last night, Anderson, as you know, we all covered this, the person did not mention the name of Jacob Blake once during that hour and some odd minutes speech that he gave on the South Lawn of the White House -- Anderson.

COOPER: Yes. Jim Acosta -- Jim, thanks very much.

There's virtually more people watch Joe Biden officially claim his party's nomination than watch Donald Trump's acceptance speech. Overall ratings for the Republican National Convention lag behind the Democrats. That includes last night's marquee event, the president's acceptance.

Brian Stelter joins me now with more. He's the host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES." He's also author of the new bestselling book, "Hoax: Donald Trump, FOX News and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth."

[14:35:01]

So, obviously, television ratings are a metric that President Trump cares a great deal about. So clearly he will know this already. But what were the numbers?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: And normally we would not maybe pay that much attention to the numbers the next day. But we know the president's obsessed with these ratings. Earlier in the day he tweeted that he had great ratings for his speech. Maybe he things they were great but they were not as high as the ratings for Joe Biden's address one week ago. Biden had about 24 million viewers tuning in. Trump had about 22 million viewers tuning in.

Notably, Anderson, the audience for both speeches is down from 2016, when it was Trump versus Hillary Clinton. That year in 2016 when we actually had big in-person conventions, Trump was the higher rated event, Clinton the lower rated event. This year the tables have turned. It's the Democrat with the higher ratings. But I think these ratings also show some political fatigue. Some Americans are just tuning it all out, not paying attention anymore.

So there's an interesting dynamic there when it comes to the TV ratings race. Look, Biden's campaign aides are already celebrating, Anderson. They are already trying to get under the president's skin with the news of these ratings, and as you mentioned, Democrats overall having a higher rated convention than the Republicans. We don't know if that means anything for November but it is notable this week.

COOPER: Yes. I mean, if they think it means something, I think, you know, they probably have more important things to be focused on, I would think. But who knows?

Brian Stelter, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

We are getting word from police on why Jacob Blake is handcuffed to the bed in the hospital. It apparently involves charges and a warrant issued before the shooting. Stand by for more.

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[14:40:43] COOPER: Breaking news, CNN is learning there was a warrant out for Jacob Blake when he was confronted by police on Sunday in an incident that resulted in his shooting.

We have more on this. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is standing by. He's following it all.

So, Shimon, Blake is currently, his father said, shackled to his hospital bed. What do we know about this warrant or the charges against him?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, so we're finally hearing from the sheriff's office in Kenosha County and they say the reason why he is shackled is because he's in custody because he has felony warrants on him and they say that this kind of classification, that anyone with this classification that we are guarding in the hospital would be treated in this manner.

So they're arguing that it's protocol essentially, that this is protocol, and that is why they're doing it. But you have to question this kind of protocol given the condition that Mr. Blake is in. We know he's paralyzed. He can't leave. So of course it would be natural to raise questions on why do you need shackle him, and just because it's protocol doesn't mean that it's necessarily the right thing to do. But that is what they're arguing. They're arguing that this is protocol and that is why they're doing it.

The other thing, Anderson, I want to note is, when police are responding to the original incident on Sunday, they knew before they even got there that there may be a person there who was wanted on a warrant. I listened to the radio transmissions and really the entire incident just lasted minutes. They were told ahead of time that Jacob Blake was going to be there and that he had this prior case.

So they went in knowing that they were probably going to arrest him if he was on the scene. Again, we still don't have questions as to how and why it escalated to the point where we see officers pulling their guns.

COOPER: Right.

PROKUPECZ: And then obviously shooting him, Anderson.

COOPER: Right. And in the official report or what the police said earlier on the show, said release was that taser was deployed, didn't work, and then that's when the video took up of Blake moving from one side of the car to the other. Do we know what the warrant was for?

PROKUPECZ: Yes. So he has a prior domestic abuse case according to the court records in Kenosha County and that's what it is for. It appears that he had not appeared in court. And so the warrant was issued for his arrest. That's what it appears. We don't have -- the thing is a lot of this we kind of have to find on our own and we have good teams on this because officials just haven't been sharing any information about why they were there, about information about the call. It's things that we have to find on our own and dig up. And that's how

we're learning some of this. They say not only did one officer tased him but this morning they released information that two officers tased him and that did not contain him. But again, we don't know what happens after that, what was said, what was in the officers' mind at the time that they needed to pull their weapons.

COOPER: Shimon Prokupecz, appreciate it. More to learn obviously.

As health officials worry about the spread of coronavirus in these Washington crowds and certainly in the crowd last night at the White House, we're learning that at least four people who attended the RNC in Charlotte have been infected.

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[14:48:32]

COOPER: Right now, crowds of protesters marching in our nation's capital. Today's March for Justice announced months ago but is happening just days after a white police officer in Wisconsin shot Jacob Blake, a 29-year-old black man, in the back seven times. It's the latest incident of violence in which a black man was shot by police. The latest incident that has sparked protest and demands for change in the streets of America.

Today's protest coming exactly 57 years to the day after Martin Luther King Jr. led the historic march on Washington, delivering his famous "I Have a Dream" speech.

Want to check in with our Brian Todd who is at the march -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the crowds are starting to march from the Lincoln Memorial in earnest here to the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Plaza. They're filing in as we speak. I'm going to show you those crowds in just a moment. But first I want to talk to one of the marchers who's here, Lameka Watley from Atlanta, Georgia.

Lameka, this is your first ever march or protest ever in your life, right?

LAMEKA WATLEY, MARCHER FROM ATLANTA, GEORGIA: Yes.

TODD: From Atlanta. What motivated you to come?

WATLEY: Well, first of all, I've never been part of a protest ever before. And I want to come be part of the history. I want my voice to be heard. I wanted to see what can we do to change. (INAUDIBLE) at the village. Basically, just want -- I just want the big history. I want to be part of the history. I wanted to be here. As many of the voices, I want to be one of them.

TODD: Yes. George Floyd's family and Jacob Blake's family have spoken. They have said in speeches just a short time ago this is the moment for change. If we don't do it now, they don't know when we can do it.

[14:50:02]

Are you hopeful that the change in police reform and justice will come from moments like this or are you skeptical?

WATLEY: No, I think in the long run, with protesters, even if they don't protest regularly, I think at some point with this march here, change is coming. Change is definitely coming because there is only so much you can say and do. Somebody eventually is going to give in.

TODD: Thank you, Lameka. Great to talk to you. And congratulations for being here for your first time.

WATLEY: Thank you. Thank you so much.

TODD: Thanks very much.

Guys, I'm going to show you the crowds. They have started marching in earnest as I mentioned. Look at this. Thousands of people coming from the Lincoln Memorial. They're jamming into the Martin Luther King Memorial Plaza behind me. That's a much tighter space than the Lincoln Memorial. So how much that -- how much capacity that memorial can take is an unknown right now.

It's a little bit concerning that there are going to be so many people jammed into a tight space back here. That's one thing that we're concerned about. But look, the message here very positive, very hopeful from people like Lameka and others, Anderson. They think this is the moment for change. They are really hoping for that to happen.

COOPER: Brian Todd, appreciate you being there.

We are learning four people have tested positive with coronavirus at the Republican National Convention meeting in North Carolina. The RNC says two attendees and two locals tested positive upon arrival and they all were sent home. Those four joined the more than five million Americans with coronavirus.

Last night we saw this, the president, the vice president, and about 1500 people gathering. Few masks being worn in that crowd. It almost at times seemed like the U.S. is not experiencing the worst public health crisis in modern history. As I said few face masks and no social distancing, even though we know those are the two best defenses against spreading the virus.

A senior White House official brushed off concerns about the lack of social distancing, telling CNN, quote, "Everybody is going to catch this thing eventually."

Let's talk about that with Dr. Rob Davidson. He's an emergency room physician. He's executive director of the Committee to Protect Medicare.

Doctor, I'm wondering what you thought of the scene at the White House where there weren't many masks. Let's also point out the protests today. A lot of people wearing masks, not social distancing, though. Obviously not what it should be. DR. ROB DAVIDSON, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: Yes, I was very concerned

about the White House event last night. 1500 people packed shoulder to shoulder. The head of the White House Coronavirus Task Force in attendance without a mask with his family, his elderly mother without a mask, and it is concerning. We know people weren't tested. Only people in direct contact with President Trump had testing done. So I think we're going to see cases come out of that and it's just modeling bad behavior.

Now when we juxtapose that to what's happening in Washington, D.C. right now, people are mostly wearing masks. Now true there is social distancing issues. However, this is a public health crisis, they are marching against systemic racism, has taken so many lives in this country throughout our history. If you're born black in this country in 2017, you have a 3 1/2 year lower life expectancy than if you were born white.

If you're a young black man, you have one in 1,000 chance of being shot by police, three times more than if you're born white. So I just think that when you're marching against a public health emergency, I think you do every risk mitigation or procedure you can but we understand that we have to do the risk benefit analysis and those folks are there doing something very important today.

COOPER: You know, we are -- someone, excuse me, at the White House was saying eventually everybody is going to get this. I was surprised by that response. I'm wondering what you make of that.

DAVIDSON: Well, I'm not surprised by their assessment of that because clearly they're adhering to the recommendations of President Trump and his coronavirus adviser Dr. Scott Atlas who by the way is a neuroradiologists, probably hasn't done patient care in several decades, certainly has no training in epidemiology. And he had the public health experts on his team. Dr. Birx, Dr. Fauci, recommend that we should not let people gather. We should do social distancing and masks and the like.

You know, I think the candor is surprising, but the sentiment is not. I think they've been thinking this, at least the president and Vice President Pence have been for a long time.

COOPER: The latest coronavirus model forecast more than 317,000 deaths by December. And when I've talked to the modelers they've always pointed out, you know, tens of thousands of lives could be saved if the percentage of people wearing masks and social distancing increased.

DAVIDSON: We could save 90,000 American lives if 95 percent of people wore masks by the end of this year. I mean, that's just such a huge number of American lives that could be saved and the fact that this president will not issue a mask mandate, you know, just speaks to the people that he's listening to, folks like Scott Atlas, instead of folks like Dr. Anthony Fauci.

COOPER: Do you think the majority of Americans have accepted this idea of -- you know, that we are in the middle of a pandemic and -- or do you think just kind of the numbers have now just washed over people and this has gone on so long, people are so sick of it, that there is this mindset of you know what, let's just go about our business and, you know, see what happens?

[14:55:08]

DAVIDSON: I mean, it depends on which people you're talking to and where they get their source of news. We saw 21.5 million people watch the president. I think many of those people who already support him probably think this is no big deal and that, you know, the lives sacrificed are less than the lives that would be sacrificed if we cracked down and if we made people wear masks because that's what they're hearing from the president and his allies.

If we talk to folks who are listening to Dr. Fauci, folks in the public health sector, in the health field, we are very much concerned about it. Over a thousand deaths in the last three days and, you know, 6 percent positivity rate of test despite decreasing tests. I mean, we are in the middle of this.

COOPER: Yes. Dr. Rob Davidson, appreciate all you're doing. Thank you.

DAVIDSON: Thank you.

COOPER: I'll be back at 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight for "360," I hope you join me. Our coverage continues with Jake Tapper on the "THE LEAD" right after this.

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