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Trump On Portland Protests: Send In The National Guard; Doctors Find Possible Case Of COVID-19 Reinfection In U.S.; The NBA Returns After A Multiday Protest. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired August 30, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:19]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You're on the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Our breaking news this hour: at a time when the nation is facing a tinderbox moment, the President is tweeting, "Send in the National Guard." He was reacting to the events in Portland, Oregon, where a man was shot dead during a night of protest and we have some new, disturbing video.

You'll see it freeze at the moment this person was killed.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

CABRERA: The shooting happened on a night that also included tense clashes between racial justice activists, and a caravan of Trump supporters who rolled into town for a demonstration of their own.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

CABRERA: This video from "New York Times" reporter Mike Baker shows a man riding in the back of a pickup truck with a pro-Trump flag firing a paintball gun at protesters on the corner, a man in another truck also releases some sort of gas, and then some of the protesters respond by throwing objects back at them. Here's what Baker said about that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE BAKER, REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": As soon as both groups sort of got together, it was increasingly volatile throughout the night. I mean, we saw a video there of paintballs being fired from the back of pickup trucks and people in the crowd throwing things back.

There were, at times, cars that were -- vehicles that were blocked and people getting out and fistfights happening in the streets. I mean, there were growing tensions there and also, this is like kind of scattered throughout downtown with a lot of these vehicles driving down different streets, up and down different streets, and you had protesters sort of pursuing them in different parts of downtown.

And so while police showed up a few times to sort of redirect traffic or to keep the groups apart, they really -- you know, it was so dispersed throughout downtown that it really became something that they couldn't handle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: At any moment now, we expect to hear from the Mayor of Portland, Ted Wheeler about last night's events. We're standing by for a press conference in Portland and we'll bring that to you here on CNN.

The President meantime has been openly attacking the mayor on Twitter, saying in part, "The Mayor is a fool. Bring in the National Guard."

CNN's Josh Campbell joins us now. He is following the latest developments in Portland. Josh, while we wait to hear from the mayor there, tell us what you've learned about these protests and what happened last night?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana, this has been the site of so much violence for weeks now, the City of Portland. We've seen these images, protesters coming out most of them peaceful, some of those groups involve rioters as well who have been attacking a Federal building, obviously clashing with law enforcement. We've been reporting on that.

Overnight, however, this took a different turn where you now have an added layer, the hundreds of pro-Trump supporters coming in and clashing overnight with some of the counter demonstrators.

Now what we learned yesterday afternoon is you have this large group that had amassed in a nearby suburb and then took a caravan basically into downtown, leaving -- you know, series of confrontations in the wake between protesters who were here, some of the violent protesters, as our colleague from "The New York Times," Mike Baker mentioned, you actually had protesters here, Trump supporters shooting into the crowd, paintball guns.

And this kind of back and forth, projectiles being launched in a series of directions. Police telling us that it was a violent night. They made a number of arrests.

And of course, as that was all happening, we also learned that there was one person shot and killed. Police say that they are investigating this as a homicide.

Law enforcement officers heard the sound of gunshots, went to the scene, found the man who was shot and killed.

Now "The New York Times" is reporting that the deceased person had a hat from The Patriot Prayer Group. This is a far right group here in Portland that has clashed in the past with demonstrators that is obviously taking on a new tone here for these protests, now turning a deadly.

Police say that that continues to be under investigation. They don't have a suspect yet, but we're hearing from law enforcement sources who tell us that tonight they are very concerned. If this indeed ends up that this was a pro-Trump supporter or a member of this far right group who was killed, they're expecting and anticipating the likelihood that there will be people coming in perhaps seeking revenge. So just a very volatile situation here in the City of Portland.

[15:05:23]

CAMPBELL: As you mentioned, the President early this morning, weighing in on what was taking place, rather than condemning the violence that was happening overnight, he appears to be actually fueling the fire. His words on Twitter saying that this was not unexpected, these clashes, based on some of the incidents that we've seen for weeks now here in Portland.

He also, as you mentioned, took aim at the Portland Mayor who he has criticized for weeks, saying that the Democratic leadership here in the city hasn't done enough to quell the violence.

The city's mayor has been telling us now for weeks that he wants the Federal government to step back and stay out of it. He has been saying that a lot of the violence that we've seen is largely stemmed from that Federal presence.

So this back and forth we continue to see, as you mentioned, we expect to hear from the mayor here shortly. We are here at City Hall. We expect him to respond to last night's developments. Obviously, the criticism we're seeing from the President, that's something that he has not been shy about responding to in the past.

We expect to hear more, but just again, very chaotic situation here in the City of Portland. It doesn't seem any end is in sight, especially with a suspected homicide overnight, and no indication that these protests will be ending anytime soon -- Ana.

CABRERA: Josh, we played that new video we just got from a witness in the scene. At the moment that person was shot, again, we don't know the identity yet of the victim nor do we know if police have a suspect at this point.

But how crucial do you think that video is going to be as a former law enforcement member yourself?

CAMPBELL: Yes, you know, I talked to the Portland Police last night and they said that they're looking for any witnesses who can try to help describe what actually took place.

Obviously, the video will be key, but they want to get a sense of what was taking place. You know, we know covering the protests here that it's obviously very difficult at times for law enforcement to identify different subjects when you have a large group of people that are together clashing.

But they're not only looking at digital media, they're also asking for witnesses that actually saw what happened to come forward and provide information. Thus far, the police aren't indicating that they have a suspect in custody. They say that that remains under investigation. But what is so chaotic here, Ana, is that we're not just talking about

one murder investigation that authorities could focus on. They also have to look at the larger threat to the city.

Again, if this person ends up being a pro-Trump supporter, law enforcement sources telling us that tonight could be very, very dangerous if you then see a larger gathering of people coming and trying to seek retribution, something this city hasn't seen.

It has seen the violence between some demonstrators and rioters and law enforcement, but now this added layer of pro-Trump supporters and some of these far right groups coming in to essentially try to take justice into their own hands is what some law enforcement officials are telling us just a powder keg here in the City of Portland.

CABRERA: Okay, we will await the words from the Mayor in his press briefing coming up along with local law enforcement officials on scene.

Josh Campbell in Portland, Oregon for us. Thank you.

President Trump has been making his thoughts on the situation in Portland very clear in a series of tweets today.

I want to go to CNN's Jeremy Diamond at the White House. Jeremy, tell us more about what is the President saying?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, let's talk about what the President isn't saying. He isn't urging for calm. He isn't trying to deescalate the situation whether it is in the City of Portland or in the City of Kenosha, Wisconsin.

What instead we are seeing from the President is an attempt to once again amplify these videos of clashes between his supporters and Black Lives Matter protesters in the City of Portland. We are also seeing him of course, try and amplify these divisions that are happening in this country.

One of the tweets from the President is where he retweets this image of his supporters heading into the City of Portland. Of course, he was tweeting this after the violence that we saw overnight after there was this reported homicide in the City of Portland.

The President also tweeting a video of his supporters going on this parade through the City of Portland, in which you can actually see the President's supporters on the backs of flatbeds of these trucks shooting paintballs and shooting pepper spray at some of these supporters.

The President tweeting: "The big backlash going on in Portland cannot be unexpected after 95 days of watching an incompetent Mayor admit that he has no idea what he is doing." He goes on to call the Mayor of Portland a fool and call once again for the National Guard to be deployed to that city.

And that is the message that we are hearing from the President as this amplification of quote-unquote "law and order" calling the protesters thugs and really sometimes not making much of a distinction between those who are carrying out violence in the city and those who are peaceful.

Now, we did hear from the White House Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows this morning, he was answering a question about the fact that ultimately this is all happening in Donald Trump's America. Listen to his response.

[15:10:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We've had over 200 anarchists and they're not peaceful protesters. These are people that every single night, conduct violent acts and it is in Democrat cities.

You know, you want to talk about Donald Trump's America, most of Donald Trump's America is peaceful. It is a Democrat-led city in Portland that we're talking about this morning, who just yesterday denied help once again from the Federal government.

And so, listen, we need to get to the bottom of this. We need to make sure that we hold people accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And so no question there that President Trump, his strategy for these next several weeks is to seize on some of the violence in the cities as part of his campaign message as he tries to portray himself as the candidate of law and order.

But of course, the irony is that, he is going after Joe Biden suggesting that this is Joe Biden's America. Of course, the President is the President of the United States now and he is trying to fling these attacks back on his opponent -- Ana.

CABRERA: Jeremy Diamond at the White House. Thank you.

Portland is the second city where protests have turned deadly this week. First there was Kenosha, Wisconsin where a 17-year-old Trump supporter is accused of shooting three people killing two of them during protests over the police shooting of Jacob Blake.

President Trump will head to Kenosha, Tuesday, to survey some of the damage caused by the unrest that happened there and CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is joining us now from Kenosha.

Shimon, what are you hearing about the President's visit?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, we just got word our colleague, Sara Sidner spoke to the local Mayor here in Kenosha, John Antaramian, and he says he is not happy about the President's visit. It's very clear.

He says that this is not the right time for the President to visit. He also says that he has not been informed of the visit officially, and he has not talked to anyone from the White House.

So it's very clear the President is obviously doing this on his own, not talking to some of the community leaders here about this visit, and one of the things, as you said is that the White House is saying he is coming here to meet with law enforcement and to survey the damage and there is some damage. We've seen the fires. But it isn't as extensive as perhaps maybe the President would like people to believe.

When you look behind me, the President should probably walk through this community here because many of the people, yes, they've boarded up a lot of their stores. They're open for business, but they've also painted beautiful murals all across this town to try and bring people together, to express their support for the Black Lives Matters movement, for a lot of the protesters who have been protesting here peacefully.

And this behind me is what a lot of people in the community want out there. They want people to know that they are trying to come together.

I should note -- and give some context here around the President's visit to this town. Kenosha was a county that the President won in the last election. He was the first Republican in 44 years to win this county.

He also won the state, the State of Wisconsin. This state is an important swing state, and he won this state by less than 23,000 votes, Ana. So that is something to consider as his visit approaches here on Tuesday.

And we don't really know if he is going to make any attempts to visit the family of Mr. Blake or have any kind of communication with them. The only thing the White House has said is that he is coming here to meet with law enforcement and to survey the damage -- Ana.

CABRERA: And I was curious if he was going to speak or at least reach out to the Blake family. We know Jacob Blake, Sr. has that it may be too late, any kind of outreach from the President.

Shimon Prokupecz in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Thank you.

Now amid this surge in violence, Democrats are accusing the President of not only capitalizing on it, but actually agitating it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): The President is willfully fanning the flames of this violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We'll discuss right after this as we continue to wait for the Mayor of Portland to speak.

Plus, we're very much still in the throes of a deadly pandemic and there has just been a sobering development. Doctors in Nevada, detecting the first possible case of reinfection. What this could mean for a vaccine and immunity. Still to come.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:26]

CABRERA: Protests, violence and division have reached a fever pitch in the United States. The police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin was just the most recent spark and it builds on months of nationwide protests that followed the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis Police in May.

We are now just 65 days from the presidential election and Republicans are looking to weaponize the ongoing unrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The hard truth is, you won't be safe in Joe Biden's America.

PATRICK LYNCH, NEW YORK POLICE BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION: You won't be safe in Joe Biden's America. We can have four more years of President Trump or you can have no safety, no justice, and no peace.

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: These continuous riots in Democratic cities gives you a good view of the future under Biden.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They will make every city look like Democrat-run Portland, Oregon. No one will be safe in Biden's America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Today on CNN, the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee Chairman, Congressman Adam Schiff, accused the President of not only seeing this violence as useful for his reelection, but of actually agitating it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHIFF: The President is willfully fanning the flames of this violence. As his own adviser, Kellyanne Conway, said last week, they believe the violence is helpful to them.

And the President is only motivated by one thing, what's in it for him? And he sees this violence and his ability to agitate more of it as useful to his campaign.

What it does to the country, the loss of life, he doesn't care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:20:08] CABRERA: I want to bring in CNN political analyst, Kirsten Powers; and

Rick Wilson, Republican strategist who co-founded The Lincoln Project. He is also the author of "Running against the Devil: A Plot to Save America from Trump and Democrats from Themselves."

Rick, the Trump campaigns message is that no one is safe in Biden's America, but this is all happening now in Trump's America, why would Trump think this is something to highlight?

RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, it is indeed happening in Trump's America, and there are a lot of things you're seeing from this administration to stoke that tension, to increase the level of agitation in the cities and in the political process that we're seeing overall.

It's a recapitulation of the 1968 strategy of Richard Nixon, which was to scare the hell out of the central, you know, the middle part of the country by saying these dangerous people in these cities are coming to get you, and they're playing that playbook very effectively for their audience right now.

And the reason they're doing it, of course, is because of their complete failure to handle COVID, their complete failure to prepare the economy for this pandemic, and the broad sense of corruption around Donald Trump that has caused so much of America to have no faith in this administration.

So, it is certainly -- the violence is playing to their political strategy, which tells you an awful lot about how low they will stoop in the coming weeks.

CABRERA: Kirsten, there are some signs that the G.O.P. is framing of these deadly protests is working. There's a poll from NPR, PBS and Marist saying the percentage of Americans who see the protests as mostly legitimate dipped from 62 percent in June to 53 percent in August and the percentage who believe that these are people who are mostly acting unlawfully rose from 28 percent to 38 percent. Should this worry Democrats?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think there are Democrats that are worried about it, but I would point out that just because there's a poll that say some people have lost some faith in the Black Lives Matter movement doesn't mean that that's going to affect their vote.

So, you know, are people going to be voting on Black Lives Matter? Are they going to be voting on COVID? Are they going to be voting on the economy? Are they going to be voting on health insurance? Those are other things, you know, to worry about now.

Now, there was one poll where Trump managed to close the gap a little bit with Biden, though Biden is still up. I think it was a Morning Consult poll among white suburban voters. And so I do think that this messaging is very effective with white suburban Republican voters, the law and order argument. And even though it is somewhat nonsensical in that Trump is the

President and he is the one who is stoking it and Joe Biden has literally nothing to do with it.

CABRERA: President Trump and Fox News are really acting like the only big news story right now is this unrest in big cities. But as you pointed out, Rick, last time I checked, about a thousand Americans a day are still dying from the coronavirus. A number equal to nowhere else in the world. Is the unrest all Republican voters care about?

WILSON: No Republican voters have certainly showed us -- shown us in recent survey work that about 65 percent of them that have defected from Trump and that number is small, but rising, have done so because they believe his handling of COVID has been so incompetent, and so irresponsible and so dangerous.

And I do think there is also a risk in this entire thing that it could quickly turn around and blow back the other way.

When you have armed caravans of Trump supporters going in to Portland last night and that starts iterating across the country. This idea that Donald Trump would continue to stoke that kind of tension. He was praising the people that went in there last night, and it did lead to violence. It led to one of Trump's supporters being killed last night, which is horrifying.

It shouldn't -- we shouldn't be -- we should be deescalating this and a responsible President would be doing that. Unfortunately, he sees a political advantage in increasing the tensions and increasing the racial tension that is inherent in saying these scary brown and black people are coming to your suburbs to kill you.

That is a message that is fundamentally dangerous for any American President to take on, because it really tells you something about the inner workings of his brain and of his prejudices and how politicized he is willing to make them.

CABRERA: So Kirsten, given it is so clear that Trump's message between now and Election Day is going to be law and order, what does Joe Biden need to do to counter that?

POWERS: Well, I mean, I think it's -- you know, it would be reasonable for him to come out and condemn violence, but make clear that honestly, you know, a lot of this violence like the deadly violence involving people, you know as Rick just talked about, it does involve some Trump supporters. It involved a 17-year-old who showed up and killed two people and injured another person in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

[15:25:12]

POWERS: So look at who is actually, you know, coming in with guns and stoking violence, but at the same time, I think it would be reasonable for Biden to say, you know, this isn't the way to create change. We don't need to have, you know, looting every single night, but let's stay focused on the real problem. CABRERA: And he has. Kirsten, he has come out and said that. In fact,

let me just quote him. He says, "It's needless violence. Violence that endangers lives, violence that guts businesses and shutters businesses that serve the community. That's wrong." That was a quote from him this week to address the issue.

POWERS: Right, but what I'm saying is for him to reiterate it because I don't think just because you say something once it doesn't necessarily permeate and perhaps go to -- you know, to go to Kenosha, to be a little more present. I think that that's one thing that he could do.

And then to remind people that this is, you know, what Republicans want to distract you with this, you know, to look over here, there actually are much bigger problems going on that are actually affecting your day-to-day lives, that actually are affecting you.

CABRERA: Rick, what do you think Democrats or Biden specifically need to do?

WILSON: I think that's right. And I do think there's a meritorious angle to Joe Biden saying, this is a deliberate political distraction on the part of Donald Trump.

We have we have 35 percent of Americans who couldn't pay their rent or mortgage last month. We have a million people a week reporting on unemployment, it's not going down. We had one small dip, and now it's back to about a million a week.

We were preparing for the fall COVID season, except for the White House who is pretending that COVID is over because they're having unmasked events.

So Biden pointing out the political nature of Trump's stoking of these tensions has some merit to it and that also -- that also works to let those suburban white voters that President Trump is desperate to capture and to get back, take a deep breath and wonder if they're being made -- you know made fools of by a President who has done so in the past repeatedly by essentially lying to them about almost every major thing that's affecting their lives, and especially this pandemic we are in the middle of.

CABRERA: Rick Wilson and Kirsten Powers. Thank you both so much for your insights.

WILSON: Thank you for having me.

POWERS: Thank you.

CABRERA: Reminder, Rick Wilson's latest book, "Running Against the Devil" is out now.

Coming up here in the NEWSROOM, why some right wing groups say they are rallying in support of the 17-year-old charged with killing two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:32:07]

CABRERA: As global coronavirus cases surpass 25 million, there is was a sobering development out of Nevada that may mean you are not safe from reinfection.

It all centers around the case of a 25-year-old man who was first diagnosed in April with the virus. By the end of the month he recovered. He tested negative twice, but by the end of May, his symptoms resurfaced and he ended up in the hospital dependent on oxygen support.

This would serve as the first documented case of COVID-19 reinfection in the United States.

Dr. Saju Mathew is joining us now.

Dr. Mathew, there are now two documented cases of possible reinfection, the one we just mentioned, and there's also one in Hong Kong. What does this mean? Could it impact vaccine development?

DR. SAJU MATHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN: Yes, good afternoon, Ana. It's definitely worrisome. What we know so far is that if you're exposed to COVID-19 and you recover, if you get re-infected again, you should have antibodies -- immunity, right? That's what we're counting on.

The first case in Hong Kong was more reassuring. The second time that he got sick, he only got tested because he was coming back to Hong Kong. He tested positive, but had no symptoms. So that's reassuring. That goes along with what we think is happening.

With the young gentleman in Nevada, the second time he actually got really sick and needing oxygen therapy. But let's also remember, Ana that this is an isolated case. We don't really know his past medical history in terms of whether he has any other comorbid conditions, smoking, and maybe vaping. We don't know.

But we need to pay close attention to it. And as you asked me, this could have implications for a vaccine development, because you want a stable virus to develop a stable vaccine.

CABRERA: The C.D.C. also has changed testing recently and I want to ask you about this because now they're suggesting only symptomatic and those with high exposure should be tested. It appears to undermine tracking and tracing abilities that goes directly against the guidelines from the World Health Organization.

Doctor, is there any data that has come forth now, especially given so many experts, like yourself have come out against this change? Has the C.D.C. provided any data to back up the change?

MATHEW: Not at all, Ana. I'm actually really concerned and very upset in the way that it was rolled out. It was just basically on their website and you have to kind of decipher exactly what that meant. Listen, this virus has not changed. We know exactly how it acts. Forty

to fifty percent of people with COVID-19 are asymptomatic, Ana, they are the drivers of this infection.

This comes at a time when we're trying to open schools and thousands of kids are falling sick. We need to test more especially given the fact that a good 50 percent are asymptomatic.

CABRERA: Going back to the vaccine. We don't know when it's going to happen. Everybody is holding their breath, hoping it happens sooner rather than later, but it has to all happen the right way so that it can be safe, so it can be effective.

But there is this new interview with "The Financial Times" in which the F.D.A. Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn says that they could implement emergency use authorization of a possible vaccine before Phase 3 trials are completed. Do you think it's safe to do that?

[15:35:22]

MATHEW: I think that would be unsafe. That would be an inappropriate use of the Emergency Use Authorization Act.

Ana, Phase 3 is the most important phase. We need at least 30,000 people. We need people of all ages, especially older people. This is the time. This is the crunch time when we find out if this vaccine is safe.

And guess what? We also need a minority representation. We're having difficulty recruiting minorities -- African-Americans and Latinos who also very suspect of a government kind of pushing this vaccine down their throat.

So, this emergency use authorization should not be used until we complete Phase 3 and we make sure that it's not only safe, but the vaccine also works.

CABRERA: A quick answer, if you will. It was just a week ago Dr. Hahn announced the EUA for convalescent plasma treatment for coronavirus. He has since apologized for mischaracterizing the data and has tried to clarify, but I guess bottom line, does the science backup that treatment?

MATHEW: So the convalescent plasma in and of itself, Ana, a good treatment. You're taking antibodies from people who have recovered from COVID-19 and infusing them in patients who are sick.

The problem is, we don't have case controlled randomized studies to really prove its safety. Until we do that, we can't really say that this is a treatment that works at this point.

CABRERA: Okay, Dr. Saju Mathew, thank you so much for providing your expertise. Good to see you.

MATHEW: Thank you, Ana. CABRERA: Coming up, the NBA returns after a multiday protest. Hear why

LeBron James says he is more confident than ever about the message they are sending.

Plus NBA great, Isiah Thomas joins us live. He is a Hall of Fame player who has been a top head coach and run basketball organizations. He is going to give us his take on this historic week from about every size you can imagine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:23]

CABRERA: Welcome back. NBA players returned to the court last night following their multi-day protest prompted by the shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

Now, here is how LeBron James described what happened over the past few days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, NBA PLAYER: Solidarity we stand win our brothers from Milwaukee under what's going on with their situation that's going on in their hometown.

So we stood with them as a league and then we try to -- we're not trying -- we put together a plan and we had action, and we want to continue that. So it's great to be back on the floor. But more importantly, it is great to be able to have a game plan, be able to execute it and then put it into action right away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: With us now, two-time NBA champion and NBA Hall of Famer, Isiah Thomas. He's also an analyst for NBA TV and NBA on TNT.

Isiah, great to have you here. We've heard from some players that they believe they may have more leverage, more influence by resuming play because it keeps them in the spotlight. Do you agree?

ISIAH THOMAS, TWO-TIME NBA CHAMPION AND NBA HALL OF FAMER: I absolutely agree, because, you know where we are right now in our world, particularly with the pandemic where everything is kind of closed, but we're slowly reopening. The platform that the players have across all leagues gives them the opportunity to speak to these issues, bring light to these issues.

And what the athletes have always done, historically, is speak for the voiceless in our communities. So the NBA, the NFL, Major League Baseball, the stance that they've taken in terms of unifying and speaking for the voiceless across all communities has been great.

CABRERA: You led teams as a star player, the head coach from inside the front office. What role do you see team managers or owners or league management having in this moment? THOMAS: The leagues, as they come together, they can continue to bring

attention to what is happening in society, to the athletes who are part of their teams, and part of their teams, you have people from all different races, creeds and backgrounds, internationally also.

So using the microphone, using the megaphone that the NBA and the leagues and the owners have. That's one thing in terms of protests. So what Rick Wade, Senior Vice Chairman of U.S. Chamber; Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Malcolm Brogdon the Indiana Pacers and myself have done is we're putting together a team to take protests, to take it from protest to policy.

And what I believe in and what needs to happen and what can happen when you talk about putting together a plan, the protest has to turn into real policy, and not only does it have to turn into real policy, but it has got to be sustainable.

And I think all of us coming together will be able to do that, so I'm very happy to work with Kareem, Malcolm Brogdon, again of the Indiana Pacers who coincidentally, has a master's degree from Virginia in policy as a current player.

So the voices will be heard and continue to be supported.

CABRERA: Right now, part of this agreement to resume play between the league and the players union was to work to convert arenas into voting locations.

We've now learned the Los Angeles Lakers have partnered with arena owners to make the Staples Center a voting center. How important is the voting aspect?

THOMAS: Voting is key to our democracy and that's what makes our democracy work and in sports right now, when we talk about the political arena, and now we're talking about the sports arena, these two coming together to ensure that our citizens in the country have a fair and equal opportunity to vote, cast their vote and their votes be counted.

So the more polling stations and the more volunteers that we can get to turn out the vote, I think it's -- you know, it's a -- it was -- excuse me, it's what makes democracy work, and I think everyone is happy about that.

[15:45:41]

CABRERA: This protest started in the NBA, but quickly spread to other sports from baseball to soccer to tennis. You know, previously, some athletes who took a stand paid a price. I'm thinking of Colin Kaepernick. Does that risk still exists today?

THOMAS: Well, Colin Kaepernick paid a big price, but we have to go further back into our history. When you talk about Kareem Abdul Jabbar currently -- formerly Lew Alcindor boycotting the '68 Olympics. When you talk about Bill Russell, when he was doing in Boston. You look at Muhammad Ali. The athlete has always particularly in his playing career while he was

a champion and had the mic, he was always charged. He and she was always charged with speaking for the voiceless in these communities that we all come from, these poor and oppressed communities that the system has systemically worked against to oppress different races and different colors.

And this is what this is all about in terms of making sure that the athlete now who has the mic can bring light and voice to these communities.

CABRERA: Isiah Thomas, good to have your perspective. Thank you so much for joining us.

THOMAS: Thank you again for having me.

CABRERA: Just a quick programming note, tune in tonight for a special back-to-back all new episodes of "United Shades of America." It all get started at nine o'clock right here on CNN. We'll be right back.

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[15:51:38]

CABRERA: We are getting new videos and eyewitness accounts from the night protest turned deadly in Kenosha, Wisconsin. The 17-year-old suspected gunman was walking the streets of Kenosha, clutching a long rifle when chaos ensued, and now some conservatives are trying to justify his behavior.

CNN's Drew Griffin reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It was chaos. Protesters, heavily armed vigilantes. Kenosha, Wisconsin, on fire. And in the midst of it all, an out-of-state 17-year-old illegally possessing a loaded AR-15-style rifle being chased.

Police call it a double homicide. Conservative commentators are calling it self-defense, and the 17-year-old shooter, a hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE MALKIN, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Well, I've been very vocal about my support for this young man, as have many others who are sick and tired of the anarchy that has gripped our country over the last 75, 80 days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN (voice over): Michelle Malkin and others have led a social media groundswell of support for accused gunman, Kyle Rittenhouse that has now led to a pop-up nonprofit defense fund asking for donations and one of the most prominent conservative attorneys coordinating Rittenhouse's defense. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIN WOOD, ATTORNEY FOR KYLE RITTENHOUSE: Sorry to keep you all waiting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN (voice over): Attorney Lin Wood, tweeting from his Twitter account with a QAnon conspiracy theory hash tag on his profile, states: "Thanks to all freedom-loving Americans who responded to requests for contact information on Kyle Rittenhouse. Help is on the way."

The 17-year-old vigilante is accused of murdering two protesters and wounding a third.

Attorney John Pierce, part of the Rittenhouse defense team, tells NBC News, "This was classic self-defense and we are going to prove it."

The criminal complaint filed against Rittenhouse details a confusing series of events that indicates the two men Rittenhouse shot and killed in separate incidents may have been trying to grab his gun.

The first victim, 36-year-old Joseph Rosenbaum, shot in a car lot. In the complaint, a witness says a first round was fired into the ground and Rosenbaum made a motion that he was trying to grab the barrel of the gun. Shots are fired and Rosenbaum is hit.

As Rosenbaum laid dying, Rittenhouse makes a phone call saying, "I just killed somebody."

Rittenhouse runs away as people chase him. He falls and fires two shots. And the second shooting victim, 26-year-old Anthony Huber, hits him with a skateboard while appearing to reach for Rittenhouse's gun. Huber is shot and killed.

New video to CNN then shows moments after Rittenhouse shoots and injures a third protester who, according to police, appears to be holding a handgun.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHIE MCGINNISS, REPORTER, DAILY CALLER & WITNESS: I basically saw him start to run, and I heard the shots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: The witness to how the incidents began is Richie McGinniss, a journalist with the right wing "Daily Caller," who appeared on Fox News and supported the conservative belief that the 17-year-old, illegally carrying a semiautomatic rifle, was actually there to keep the peace in a town police left out of control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: There's a big mob. People have guns. Shots are going off. Where were the cops?

MCGINNISS: Definitely, they're there, but they're obviously not responding in any quick fashion.

So the 17-year-old, who I interviewed earlier in the night, he actually mentioned that he was there to maintain peace in the absence of police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:55:02]

GRIFFIN: Video footage throughout the night show police were everywhere around Kenosha and responded to the shooting within minutes, only to ignore the actual shooter who walked right past responding police with his hands up and the now-alleged murder weapon slung across his chest.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Coming up, the Mayor of Portland, Oregon set to hold a press conference any moment now after a night of unrest and a deadly shooting in that city. The President saying he wants to send in the National Guard.

Stay right there. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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