Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Biden & Trump Spar over Security as Election Day Nears; Deadly Shooting in Portland Fuels Division, Tensions; Trump to Travel to Kenosha on Tuesday; The Politics of the Protests; U.S. Nears 6 Million Cases, Over 183,000 Deaths; Former FDA Commissioner Warns Cases Rising in Midwest; Dr. Birx Urges Safety Precautions Amid Wait for Vaccine; FDA Head: Willing to Approve Vaccine Before Phase 3 Trials End. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired August 31, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Joe Biden makes a rare road trip today to frame protests and racial unrest is more proof, in his words, it is unsafe to live in Donald Trump's America.

President Trump wants you to see recent unrest in Portland, Kenosha and elsewhere, but he wants you sees it differently. He rails against Democratic mayors and warns that weakness would come to the White House if Biden wins the election.

The different approach to the same issue is instructive. The president talks law and order, hoping to turn attention away from his greatest election weakness, the coronavirus pandemic.

The United States sadly is now about to hit six million confirmed infections. That's the entire population of Missouri. The American death toll is approaching 185,000. Imagine, wiping Sioux Falls, South Dakota, from the map.

By December, the projection of American deaths is 300,000. And 300,000 is the population of Pittsburgh, where Democrat Biden today will put a new twist on an old campaign question: Are you safer today than you were four years ago?

The former vice president connects the pandemic and the protests, symptoms, he'll argue, of a president who simply isn't up to the job and who spends his time tweeting hate and division instead of studying how to handle the pandemic and other big challenges.

The former vice president in his speech will say this, quote, "This president long ago forfeited any moral leadership in this country. He can't stop the violence because, for years, he has fomented it."

Competing arguments at very raw moments across America. The confrontations in Portland turning deadly over the weekend after racial -- after clashes between racial justice protesters and a right- wing counter demonstration.

A man was shot and killed. The mayor says the president shares the blame.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR TED WHEELER (D-PORTLAND-OR): You've tried to divide us more than any other figure in modern history, and now you want me to stop the violence that you helped create.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: "Portland is a mess." You see it right there. That's the president's morning Twitter retort. "If this joke of a mayor doesn't clean it up, we'll go in and do it for them," the president tweeting.

The Biden speech in Pittsburgh today will be followed by a Trump visit to Kenosha tomorrow. That visit by the president over the objections of local Democrats.

Kenosha has seen a week of protests since police shot an African- American man named Jacob Blake in the back seven times at point-blank range.

Wisconsin could well decide the Trump/Biden contest. And the president's visit will have a law-and-order focus.

Democratic Governor Tony Evers sent a letter to the president yesterday saying, "I'm concerned your presence will only hinder our healing. And I'm concerned your presence will only delay our work to overcome division and move forward together."

The state's lieutenant governor more blunt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GOV. MANDELA BARNES (D-WI): I don't know how, given any of the previous statements that the president made, that he intends to come here to be helpful. And we absolutely don't need that right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's get straight to the two cities on edge.

CNN's Josh Campbell is in Portland, Oregon, for us. And Shimon Prokupecz on the ground in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

Josh, let's start with you.

For three months, the protests have been going on there but this weekend turned deadly.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, John. A violent weekend beginning on Saturday. We've seen these protests night after night for well over 90 days, since the death of George Floyd. During the daytime, you see protesters calling for racial justice and calling for an end to police brutality. In the evening hours, there has been violence relegated to this one area.

The president tries to bill, the city as under siege which is not true. There was violence in one area.

But what happened on Saturday was something we haven't seen to the degree in the past. And that is not just protesters demonstrating against law enforcement but hundreds of pro-Trump supporters coming into the city, clashing with counter protesters. Police making a number of arrests.

And as you mentioned, one person ended up dead, shot and killed. Police say that they responded to the sound of gunfire, found a person unconscious and deceased on the pavement.

Now the "New York Times" is reporting, John, that that individual had a hat on bearing a far-right insignia, a far-right group.

Police tell us that that is concerning them now. They are concerned that there could be possible retribution of folks coming back into this city.

And as you mentioned, as that's happening on the ground, the violence, this war of words continues between President Trump and the local mayor.

The mayor saying the president's actions aren't helping things, saying quite the opposite, that they are continuing to inflame a lot of violence we see in the city -- John?

KING: Josh Campbell, glad for the reporting. And glad you're on the ground in this tense time in Portland.

Let's move from the west coast to the Midwest. Shimon Prokupecz on the ground in Kenosha for us.

Shimon, a tense time anyway, and now the president of the United States about to visit over the objection of local Democrats.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and as you said, John, the governor is sending him a two-page letter. Governor Evers saying don't come here right now. Your presence can only bring more problems. And it's not a time for politics. It's not a time for divisiveness. And people need to be united.

And that's what they have been working on here for the last week. We're over just about a day and a week past the time that Jacob Blake was shot by police.

And it's been relatively peaceful here for the last several days. And this community is just hoping that that continues.

[11:05:03]

Local leaders are saying they don't want him here. You know, yesterday, I spent a day talking to some of the business owners here.

I went to one of the convenience stores that was looted. And the owner there said he didn't want the president coming here because they just really want to spend the time right now in this community healing and supporting each other.

They are getting prepared for this. The police are, the sheriff is, local law enforcement for the president's visit here tomorrow.

What we don't know exactly is what the president is going to do. He said he's coming here to view destruction. There isn't that much destruction. This isn't like a hurricane came through this town.

He says he's going to meet with law enforcement. We don't know what law enforcement that is. We don't know if that's local law enforcement. Is that the National Guard or is that the federal law enforcement?

And mainly, we don't know if he's going to be seeing the family, the Jacob Blake family.

So all of that is still very much unknown here -- John?

KING: Shimon Prokupecz on the ground in Kenosha. We'll certainly keep an eye on it and try to learn of more details of the president's visit.

And let's discuss more of the politics of protests, if you will.

Jackie Kucinich is the Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast." Astead Herndon is the national political reporter for "The New York Times."

Astead, I want to start with you.

First, by letting your viewers, just get this sense. The vice president has tried to consistently focus on the pandemic. Now he will address this social unrest as well.

A bit of a risk for the Biden campaign, essentially almost trying to debate the president on his term. But the two leaders -- here's one of the things that Joe Biden will say in the speech today.

And Joe Biden tries to connect the dot, if you will, saying there's a common denominator, failed presidential leadership.

He'll say this in the -- in the speech today: "He may believe mouthing the words law and order make him strong, but his failure to call on his own supporters to stop acting as an armed militia in this country shows you how weak he is. Does anyone believe there will be less violence in America if Donald Trump is re-elected?"

What is the thinking inside the Biden campaign, not only to deliver a major address but to hit the road to a battleground state, Pennsylvania? They had considered Kenosha but are holding off on that for now. What's the thinking?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think the Biden campaign wants to insulate itself from what they know is going to be the president's main attack line against them.

This is the vice president saying not only is he going to, I am sure, condemn looting and violence as he has done repeatedly, and as the president has called for.

But he's going to try to make Donald Trump own this, saying what we're seeing right now. The social unrest is a representation of an America on edge because of the president.

So it's kind of a back and forth around blame here, of around who is -- who is at the root of this problem.

But it's also kind of disconnected from how this issue place out on the ground. Police brutality and the protests about racial injustice are things that crossed an individual election, that crossed Democrat or Republican.

Remember, Black Lives Matter started initially under President Obama. So this is something that Vice President Biden will have to deal with himself.

But right now, he is just trying to do the -- the kind of baseline insulation of what the president's attacks against him will be, saying it's not me who owns this, not Democrats who owns this. This is Donald Trump's America that he has helped create.

KING: And that, Jackie, suggests -- look, we're nine weeks away from the election.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

KING: People actually start voting earlier than that.

It will be very interesting. Those two men talk very differently and behave very differently. We'll have Biden today, Trump tomorrow, then Trump later in Pennsylvania later in the week.

Just a snippet of how the two men, two candidates talk very differently about the same issue. Let listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just look at the Joe Biden supporters on the streets screaming and shouting at bystanders with unhinged manic rage.

That's no problems with thousands of so-called peaceful protesters cramming into your streets, mugging people, hurting people, robbing stores.

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I've made it clear from the beginning that there's no justification whatsoever for violence, looting.

He's rooting for more violence, not less.

TRUMP: No one will be safe in Biden's America.

BIDEN: Donald Trump saying, you won't be safe in Joe Biden's America. All the video being played is being played in Donald Trump's America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Republicans, Jackie, think, historically, this is their turf. Do the Democrats think not this time?

KUCINICH: You know, I think they are focusing on the fact that this isn't Joe Biden's America.

And even today the Trump campaign had a -- had a call where they had several sheriffs and law enforcement officials saying that what you're seeing in the streets is what Joe Biden's America will look like.

When, in fact, we are, you know, year three and a half, three and change, into the Trump administration. So having to square that has been problematic.

The other thing that the Biden campaign is pointing to is how the vice president has handled each of these instances of racial injustice.

What he did after George Floyd was killed, what he did during this situation, he's called for calm. That's something that they are looking to emphasize.

[11:10:03]

And the other -- another thing that we should point out is the Trump campaign hasn't really -- we saw this during the convention -- hasn't really decided how to attack Joe Biden. Is he too soft on crime? Is he too weak on crime? What is it? Because they have taken both positions.

So they haven't really decided, other than trying to saddle Joe Biden with the more violent aspects of these protests. In terms of how they are going to paint him going forward, that seems to be very much in flux.

KING: And very much in flux.

And these are issues -- Astead, you made a very important point. Black Lives Matter movement goes back during the Obama administration. That started during an African-American presidency with people thinking he wasn't doing enough.

So this is a conversation the country has to have anyway but we're having it a difficult time because of the calendar, because we're so close to the election.

You have the president going to Kenosha, one of those blue states he flipped, the 10 electoral votes. But 10 electoral votes, when you do the math, could well decide who the next president of the United States is.

It is remarkable that he's going to go visit when the Democratic governor, the Democratic lieutenant governor, the Democratic mayor of the city say, please, not now.

HERNDON: Exactly. I mean, this is a clear part of the Trump strategy. They think that they need to pull back some of those Wisconsin votes.

And they think they do that in a couple of forms, particularly in those out of Milwaukee kind of more suburban regions, the counties, Waukesha, even getting out to places like Kenosha.

They think they can tell a story of kind of fear-driven, as the president has put, the kind of minorities coming into suburban communities, fear and crime-driven messages, one that can resonate and kind of peel back votes here and there in what they think will be a tight race.

We should know that the president is swimming uphill both in facts and politically.

This has been something that voters have largely rejected his handling of protests, have largely embraced the large swath of the Black Lives Matter movement.

Maybe that is changing. We have seen some polling that says that that's coming back down to earth.

But it is not the mass backlash that the president is necessarily banking on here. He is hoping to drive up those negatives because he thinks he needs them.

Democrats say that that is not something that -- that people know that Joe Biden is not an extremist. And they know that the Black Lives Matter movement is largely peaceful.

KING: And, Jackie, that, again, it just raises the fascinating question of the moment. Amy Walter, a political reporter, wrote a great column over the weekend. What is Trump looking for?

Is this an effort to peel off some suburban voters and bring back suburban voters who went away or is this more trying to get white working-class voters that sat out 2016, even if the president won, to get them off the sidelines, to turn out more Trump base, if you will?

And it's critically important because just look at Kenosha. In 2016, remember, Donald Trump just won Wisconsin, right? In 2016, he split the vote with Hillary Clinton, just barely beating her in Kenosha County. Look at that right there.

And then let's go back to 2012. Obama won that county by 13 points against Mitt Romney four years before then, even though the local Congressman Paul Ryan was on the ticket then.

If Democrats win this county by a decent margin, they probably win the state. If Trump can get it to a draw, we probably have 2016 again. KUCINICH: I mean, to your point, the margins matter. Which is why --

and suburban women, in particular -- and we hear a lot about them -- is a group both sides are fighting for.

And we'll just see -- you're heard -- while Trump is wrapping himself in law and order, you've heard some of the women who are part of the Trump campaign saying, don't listen to the president's words, look at what he's doing, trying to soften him.

Well, right now, we're not seeing the softer side of Trump. That is not what he's trying to project forward.

And, you know, the fear that they are trying to foment, that didn't work in 2018 in the suburbs. Democratic voters ended up -- excuse me, voters ended up going with Democrats more than Republicans when you talk about, you know, House seats.

So whether it works, that remains to be seen. I think we'll be watching that very closely.

KING: And to your point, the scripted convention is over. Pick up your phone at home and look at the Trump Twitter feed. It's a very different tone from the president in recent days, especially on this issue. We'll see whether it works of not.

Astead, Jackie, great to see you both. Appreciate the reporting and the insights.

[11:14:12]

Up next for us, the head of the FDA says he's going to fast track a coronavirus vaccine even before phase three trials are finished.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: The United States about to hit a coronavirus milestone, six million confirmed new infections. The jump from five million to six million, taking place in just a little more than three weeks, 22 days.

Let's take a look at the latest numbers and the trend map. If you look at the state trends right now, 50 states, you do not want to be orange or red. You see a lot of orange and red.

Right now, 20 states, 15 in the orange, five in the red, trending in the wrong direction. Meaning more new infections being reported now that a week ago.

The beige is holding steading, 21 states holding steady. Only nine states at the moment trending down. That includes Florida, Arizona and California. That's why the numbers aren't as big. The big drive over the summer surge. Reporting fewer cases right now.

But you look at this, a lot of cases in middle America, pretty much across the northern half of the country, states reporting more cases now that a week ago.

Now when you have more cases, you sadly have more deaths. And 19 states reporting more deaths now compared to a week ago, 19 states.

The deepest red are the states reporting the highest number in deaths this week this week compared to last week. And 20 states trending down. And 11 states holding steady. And the saddest statistic of all, coronavirus deaths in the United States.

As we get to six million -- we'll get there sometime today -- it's just instructive to watch how quickly this played out. First, you had one million pack in April. Took six weeks to get to two million in June.

And look at the devastation of the summer surge, a surge many public health experts say never should have happened. July 8, three. July 23, four. August 9, five. Sunday, we'll be just shy of six. We'll hit that number today as new cases are counted.

[11:20:10]

The trend line as this plays out, again, here's the low before the summer surge. And then you come up, over 60,000 cases.

Here's the question: Are we finally shutting this down? Last week, we thought we'd get the baseline below 40,000. Didn't happen. Jumped back up.

And Sunday, 35,000 cases. That's the challenge. Often you get a lower number on the weekend and then they jump back up. That's what happened last week.

Can we shove this baseline down below 40,000 or will we stay at the stubbornly high level right now?

Another way to look at the state map. You don't want to be orange, red or gold. You want to be like this. This means fewer cases, see, fewer cases per one million residents.

The northeast part of the country, the yellow is OK. Gold is getting worse. Orange is worse still. Pink and red are higher rates. More cases, more new infections per one million residents. Look at all that, especially the pink and red.

That's why Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former FDA commissioner, says this country failed. He says, over the summer, it was absolutely imperative that the baseline be shoved way down, way below 30,000. He says it was a summer lost.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: August should have been a slow month. We should have seen infection levels come down in July and August. They didn't. We saw an epidemic cross over the Sunbelt and infections increased.

The most concerning trend is, as we see the cases fall in the Sunbelt, they are picking up in other parts of the country, particularly across are the Midwest and the west, and particularly in rural parts of the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's bring in our CNN medical analyst, Dr. Seema Yasmin, a former CDC disease detective.

Dr. Yasmin, it's good to see you.

You hear Scott Gottlieb saying we lost the summer. That was the moment when you had it down to 20,000 infections on average in June, the moment where it was imperative to shove it down, get it below 20 and so and instead we got up close to 70 and now we're somewhere around 40.

Listen to Dr. Deborah Birx, coordinator the Coronavirus Task Force, imploring people -- traveling to states where they have college problems right now, outbreaks on campuses, imploring people, please, help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: Don't wait for the vaccine to do the right thing. Do the right thing today. Because if we do the right thing today, we go into the fall with much fewer cases.

Yes, I'm hopeful for a vaccine. But I'm also very convinced right now that we can stop community spread by wearing masks, social distancing and avoiding crowds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It is great advice from her. But, again, we're slow to shove the baseline down. And, number, two, she's wearing a mask there as she speaks because she's at an event with people.

The president and vice president we've seen them out campaigning and the convention events, very close proximity to people, not leadership by example.

DR. SEEMA YASMIN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Totally. And actually even frustrating to hear this from Dr Birx, given what we know that this reporting has shown in the early months of the pandemic she was presenting an overly optimistic model of what was going to happen to the administration. That hurt her.

So, yes, she's giving a more coherent and better message now. But it does feel like it's coming too late.

And I have to say Dr. Scott Gottlieb is completely right. We shouldn't be where we are now or we wouldn't be if we had ramped up testing, if we had taken the right measures, if we had really, really suppressed viral spread before we reopened.

Instead, sadly, we're in the situation where we're still averaging about 1,000 Americans dying every day from this disease. And our seven-day average for the number of new cases is somewhere between 35,000 new cases a day up to 50,000 cases a day.

KING: Right.

YASMIN: There's a really interesting new study that's coming from the University of Utah. And it's showing us how the clusters have evolved between January and June.

So what they are saying is, earlier in the pandemic in the U.S., there were really big clusters. Now since April onwards, smaller clusters, which sounds like good news, except we are seeing smaller clusters but many more of them across the country.

KING: Right. And you're starting to see that, A, across the country to begin with, and now accelerating on college campuses, which is, if you look across the Midwest, numbers aren't as high as Florida or Texas or California in the summer. But add them all up, and you still get the same sad math.

One of the questions is, you know, where is that vaccine chase, right. If we're going to deal with this, if we haven't shoved the baseline down, the greatest benefit would be a vaccine.

This is Dr. Stephen Hahn, the FDA commissioner, saying, "It's up to the response of the vaccine developer to apply for authorization or approval and we make an adjudication of their application." This is in "The Financial Times." "If they do that before the end of phase three, we may find that appropriate or inappropriate. We'll make a determination."

Opening the door there that if one of the vaccine developers says, I'm a third of the way through phase three, I feel good, I think it works, we've proven efficacy, that they would then put the vaccine out and give it a normal use authorization before the normal process.

Good idea or bad idea?

[11:25:00]

YASMIN: The problem here is that the credibility of the FDA is crumbling before our eyes. This is an agency that so many of us in the scientific world have looked up to. We've trusted it. We've known that they had these really rigorous scientific protocols.

That's all changed this year, John. In March, the FDA rushed through emergency use authorization of Hydroxychloroquine after the president put very public political pressure on the agency.

It rushed it through only to revoke it in June saying, oh, you know, there's not enough and, by the way, Hydroxychloroquine can cause really serious heart problems.

And then a week ago, you have the FDA commissioner stand in front of the country and rush through emergency use authorization of convalescent plasma with the most-flimsy scientific evidence.

People are just shocked. He abused his words. He overstated the efficacy of this treatment.

So that has a lot of us worrying about vaccines because we cannot rush this. Yes, we do have to do things quickly but not at the expense of safety.

And I've said this so many times, John. I've written about it at CNN.com. What good is a vaccine if many Americans will not roll up their sleeves for it? The whole point of a vaccine is that you get herd immunity in a safe way.

But that means many people have to trust it. Many people have to get vaccinated. If they don't, we can have a vaccine and it won't do us any good.

KING: The trust deficit is a problem along with everything else in this pandemic.

Dr. Yasmin, grateful for your expertise and insights. Thanks for being with us today.

Still ahead for us, just two months, a little more than two months to Election Day, top intelligence officials tell members of Congress no more in-person briefings on election interference.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)