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Birx To Infected Students: Stay On Campus, Don't Return Home; Democrats To Subpoena Postmaster General For Refusal To Hand Over Documents; NYT: DOJ Secretly Curtailed Investigation Into Trump's Russia Ties; Book: Leaked Memo Reveals Alarms About Kushner Clearance; Trump Spreads Fringe Conspiracy Theories On COVID, Protests And More. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired August 31, 2020 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:33:17]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: A key member of the Coronavirus Task Force is urging college students to stay on campus if they test positive. A number of university campuses have seen spikes in cases as students are returning for in-person classes.

The University of Alabama is reporting 1,200 cases since the start of classes just two weeks ago.

And now Dr. Deborah Birx is urging any college student with COVID to quarantine on campus rather than go home and risk infecting family members.

One college student who tested positive on campus wrote this op-ed in "The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel," saying, quote, "I went back to reopen Notre Dame. Now, I have COVID-19."

"I wanted college back so badly. I miss my friends, my professors, Notre Dame's golden dome. Now, as I sit locked along away in quarantine with COVID-19 coursing through my body, I miss it even more."

Genevieve Redsten wrote that op-ed. She's a junior at Notre Dame.

First, if you could tell us, how are you feeling?

GENEVIEVE REDSTEN, NOTRE DAME JUNIOR WHO CONTRACTED COVID-19 ON CAMPUS: You know, I'm feeling a lot better, actually. So I had pretty mild symptoms. And now the only thing left is I can't smell very much. But it's coming back so I'm on the mend.

KEILAR: So, you had that symptom where you can't smell very well.

One of the top doctors on the task force for coronavirus at the White House is recommending that students like you, who test positive, isolate on campus. You have done that.

Do you think most students will cooperate? REDSTEN: At Notre Dame, if you test positive, you're immediately taken

away to an off-campus facility to stay in isolation for at least 10 days. And if you live off campus already, you're told to remain there until the end of your isolation period.

[14:35:03]

So at Notre Dame, I think that's yes.

KEILAR: OK, so at Notre Dame, where they're providing the pathways for you, you feel yes.

So, you knew there were risks when you went back to school. I wonder, as you're looking at this, was it worth it?

REDSTEN: You know, I think that's a hard question to ask because there are costs and benefits to returning. And if we had gone all remote, it would have been challenging, especially for low-income students who don't have access to resources at home.

But with the outbreak Notre Dame has seen, it's revealed challenges in bringing students back to campus.

So I don't know if I'm qualified to say whether it was the right decision to make but Notre Dame is proceeding with plans to try to keep us on campus.

KEILAR: You've said, Genevieve, the testing process was confusing. Can you tell us why that is?

REDSTEN: When I went to go get tested, there was a huge surge of students who were demanding tests after they found out they'd been exposed to COVID-19.

I had a hard time accessing testing at first and I had to be pushy in getting my way into the testing center. And it took several hours to get a test.

But once I was tested, it was a pretty easy process of getting into isolation.

KEILAR: OK. Genevieve, thank you so much. There's a lot of people in the situation like you are. We're glad to see you're feeling so well.

Thank you for talking to us.

REDSTEN: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: A new book claiming the White House counsel recommended that Jared Kushner's security clearance should be downgraded. Hear why.

Plus, Democrats say the administration now ending in-person briefings on election security, that is it a, quote, "pre-cover up."

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[14:40:51]

KEILAR: The House Committee for Oversight and Reform says the deadline has passed for Postmaster Louis DeJoy and they plan to issue a subpoena.

Chairwoman Carolyn Maloney says DeJoy is withholding documents they requested during his tense testimony last week.

CNN national correspondent, Kristen Holmes, joining us to talk about this.

Kristen, what are you learning?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, we heard this last Monday from member after member of this House committee asking DeJoy to turn over these documents.

The documents are wide ranging. They wanted anything pertaining to these changes that he made to the postal system, what kind of delays they were having, and whether or not those changes were going to impact the election.

The other thing they were seeking was any sort of communication between DeJoy or the postal service and the Trump campaign.

Because during the Monday testimony, it was revealed that DeJoy has been talking to some of his friends in the campaign and saying President Trump's rhetoric around mail-in voting wasn't helpful. He'd been sending a message that way.

And that's not completely shocking, given DeJoy is a major Trump donor and an ally there. So that's what they were looking for there.

They set the deadline of last Wednesday. Up until now, we have heard no documents have been turned over.

Instead, on Friday, two days after the deadline, DeJoy sent a letter back to the committee and it said this: "I trust my August 24th testimony before the Oversight Committee and Reform clarified any outstanding questions you might have."

Which we know is not true because it was during that time, during that testimony that he was asked to provide these documents.

To give an overall view of how we got here, these changes DeJoy made were causing massive delays.

There was concern that, given the relationship between DeJoy and President Trump, and President Trump's rhetoric on mail-in voting, that the administration was going somehow to use the postal service to meddle in the election.

I will note that DeJoy has said that is not the case.

KEILAR: And in a separate case, a federal appeals court just ruled against the Judiciary Committee subpoena of White House counsel, Don McGahn. What's behind the decision, Kirsten?

HOLMES: Brianna, this is a big deal. They're essentially saying the House has no right to sue over a subpoena, to sue to enforce a subpoena.

And eventually, they say this is because the House, there's no rule, no law in place that says that they can do so, that they can enforce the subpoena.

In fact, they go on to say, if the House wants to be able to enforce a subpoena, Congress should pass a law enabling them to do so.

So, this is going to apply to a much larger picture than just this McGahn.

But when it comes to Don McGahn, the former White House counsel, they were trying to subpoena him to get him to testify in front of the committee about President Trump and any effort he had to try and end or thwart that Russia investigation of Robert Mueller's.

KEILAR: Kristen Holmes, thank you so much.

"The New York Times" is reporting the Justice Department took steps in 2017 to secretly limit the scope of its investigation into Russian election interference and possible coordination with the Trump campaign.

According to former law enforcement officials, former deputy attorney general, Rod Rosenstein, privately told Special Counsel Robert Mueller to keep the scope of the investigation to just criminal matters.

That essentially stopped any investigation into the president's financial and personal ties to Russia that could be considered national security threats.

The paper says Rosenstein believed the FBI had a motive for opening its counterintelligence investigations.

"The New York Times" reporting, quote, "Mr. Rosenstein determined the investigators were acting too hastily in response to the firing days earlier of James Comey as FBI director and he suspected the acting bureau director, who approved the opening of the inquiry, Andrew McCabe, had conflicts of interest."

Joining me is Andrew McCabe, the former deputy director of the FBI. He's also a senior CNN law enforcement analyst. He's also the author of "The Threat, How the FBI Protects America in the Age of Terror and Trump."

And, Andrew, first, what was your reaction when you heard this report that Rosenstein was secretly limiting the scope of the investigation and why do you think he would keep that a secret from you?

[14:45:07]

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: So, Brianna, as you would expect surprised and greatly disappointed.

I, of course, was not present for any private conversations between Mr. Rosenstein and Director Mueller.

But if those conversations took place, as has been reported, they have the effect of essentially turning off the counterintelligence investigation that the FBI initiated.

And then, of course, not telling the FBI that no such counterintelligence investigation would take place.

It really, for me, leaves a lot of very concerning questions on the table.

I can --

KEILAR: No, go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry.

MCCABE: Yes. I can just speak to our thoughts at the time.

We had some information that indicated the president might pose a threat to our national security, in that a counterintelligence threat, regarding the government of Russia. A very, very serious issue, right?

The -- as I said before, it's the Dooms-Day scenario for counterintelligence investigators, that a president of the United States might be somehow connected to or obligated to the government of Russia. So, that's something we felt strongly should be looked into.

I think we have many more reasons to believe that should be look into that now because we've seen from other investigations, the special counsel and also the Senate Intelligence Committee. So that's work that needs to be done.

KEILAR: That's right.

So, this bipartisan Senate Intel Committee report on Russian interference in 2016 was released last week. That's the one you're referring to. And it went far beyond the Mueller investigation, perhaps because of this reason we're discussing.

And it's also was warning of interference in this election in the 2020 election.

What are your concerns there?

MCCABE: Well, 2016 was, by any account, a massive success for Russia in terms of their primary desire to sew discord and mistrust among Americans and their democratic process.

In their desire to hurt candidate Clinton, which they clearly did by releasing emails they had stolen from the DNC and other places.

And then, of course, to help President Trump get elected, which was a success as well.

So, coming off that kind of win in 2016, I think it's absolutely expected the Russians will try to medal in the election in 2020.

And they'll do it better. They've got great experience. They learned a lot from their last foray into this area.

I suspect they'll be a much tougher adversary this time around.

KEILAR: "The New York Times" report about Rosenstein is part of a new book from Michael Schmidt. "Axios" got a preview.

There's reporting the White House counsel, Don McGahn, wanted Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law and one of his top advisors, wanted his security clearance downgraded but it was approved anyway.

Do you have any fears that Kushner and Trump are beholden to foreign influence and that we might have learned more about that if the investigation had not been limited in scope?

MCCABE: Well, I can't speak to issues surrounding Mr. Kushner because those haven't been discussed and revealed publicly in the same way the issues with the president have by the government So, I'm more free to address those.

There's absolutely many good reasons to suspect or be concerned that the president might be beholden on the Russians.

Even back as far as May of 2017, it was very clear to us that the president didn't want us investigating the possibility of his campaign coordinating with Russia.

He asked Jim Comey to drop the case against Mike Flynn. He asked Comey multiple times to announce to the public he was not under investigation.

When he did not do any of those things, he fired the director, which we all believed is likely further effort to obstruct our investigation.

We know from the special counsel's investigation that he went one step further and told Don McGahn to fire the special counsel in the midst of his investigation.

We know from the Senate investigation that, in addition to the hundreds of contacts between Trump campaign folks and the Russians, we had the release, by Paul Manafort, of confidential sensitive internal polling data to a known Russian intelligence officer that is a Russian spy.

So, the idea that these concerns of ours were somehow not valid is ridiculous. The idea we began our case without a proper basis is absurd.

That is not a concern that Mr. Rosenstein ever voiced to any of us at the time, nor should he have.

KEILAR: Thank you so much for joining us. Andrew McCabe, we really appreciate it. MCCABE: Sure. My pleasure.

[14:50:03]

Next, President Trump pushing conspiracy theories on everything from COVID death tolls to protests. And one of his closest advisers seeming to suggest it is part of his re-election strategy.

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KEILAR: Twitter once again had to take down a post re-tweeted by the president because it contained statements that were false.

The original tweet from a QAnon conspiracy theorist claimed the CDC had quietly updated the numbers to admit only 6 percent of people listed as coronavirus victims actually died from COVID.

Well, that is just a blatant misrepresentation of what the CDC actually released, which was a statistic that only 6 percent of COVID deaths had no other complicating factors or pre-existing conditions. It does not change that COVID was the cause of death.

[14:55:14]

CNN's Chris Cillizza joining us now.

And, Chris, the president re-tweeted a second article containing the same false claim. And this is going out to his millions of followers.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER & CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yes, it would be dangerous if you had 200 followers. Brianna, it is really dangerous when you have 70 million.

And his excuse is I see things and send them. He's never understood the power of the presidency, certainly the power of his own Twitter feed.

He understands it does good for him but not the downside, which is lots and lots of people believe these things that he gives credibility.

Remember, QAnon is a group that, I 2019, said is a potential domestic terrorism threat. And Donald Trump said, a week and a half ago, well, they say nice things about me so I like them.

He doesn't grasp the moral imperatives that come with being the president of the United States. He is not a conservative commentator. He is not a troll on Twitter. He is the single most powerful person in the country.

I'll throw one other one out there, by the way, Brianna, that you didn't mention. But in that rampage of tweets and re-tweets overnight and this morning, he tweeted that Governor Andrew Cuomo should be in jail for some reason.

Again, words have power. We know that. He's been proven over and over again that words have power. And he still chooses -- at this point, chooses not to get it. It seems, to me, willful at this point.

KEILAR: It seems like he understands the reach.

CILLIZZA: Yes.

KEILAR: He just doesn't care the harm it does. Right? That seems pretty clear.

And he's using this same tactic in response to racial unrest and the protests across country as well, working to create his own narrative that doesn't follow the facts.

CILLIZZA: Yes. Well, look, he's tweeted out praise for a militia group going into Portland, that was unrest that left one of his -- we believe someone aligned with him dead. We're not naming that person. Donald Trump did name that person on Twitter.

He has expressed sympathy for that person's death and not expressed sympathy for what happened in Kenosha and the violence there.

Again, if it was a one-off, if it was one time where he seemed to take the side here of a militia group or a white group or a white person who died verses an African-American or a liberal group, OK, maybe.

But the problem is it is time and time and time -- it's criticizing Lebron James and our colleague, Don Lemon, for being dumb. It's kneeling players. It's Charlottesville.

There's a pattern here. And it is not just a pattern. It's a purposefully pattern, I think, you would have to conclude at this point.

KEILAR: He's clear, to him, about which lives matter, for sure.

CILLIZZA: Right.

KEILAR: You could see that in his Twitter feed.

CILLIZZA: Yes.

KEILAR: And even his own aides admit that he believes that this strategy is going to help him win re-election.

CILLIZZA: Yes. I want to place one piece of sound because I think it's important. This is from Kellyanne Conway, soon to be former White House political adviser, or senior counsellor.

But here is what she had to say about this is a strategy and then one quick thing. Here it is.

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KELLYANNE CONWAY, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP (voice-over): I also noticed there was a quote today from restaurateur in Wisconsin saying: "Are you trying to get Donald Trump re-elected?" He knows full stop, and I guess Mayor Pete knows full stop that the

more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who is best on public safety and law and order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CILLIZZA: So, Brianna, obviously, that is pretty blatant, right? Donald Trump does not win an election about coronavirus and his handling of it. A large majority of people in this country do not believe he's handled it well and blame him for the situation we're in.

More than six million people have got the virus and more than 182,000 people have died, the most in the world on both counts.

He needs to change the subject. This is his attempt to change the subject. That doesn't mean it won't work. But call it for what it is. This is a strategy designed to make people, particularly white women in the suburbs, nervous.

Donald Trump said Joe Biden will destroy the suburbans in his convention speech. He said -- we don't have to infer what that might mean. He said it right out. This is all of a piece of that.

KEILAR: It is so interesting. We just talked with an undecided voter from Minneapolis who voted for Donald Trump in 2016. She's sort of the quintessential suburban woman that the president wants to vote for him.

CILLIZZA: Right.

KEILAR: And she's not sure if she could vote for him again. She wants him to give her a reason to but he's not, Chris. So we'll just keep --

CILLIZZA: Fear is a powerful motivator, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes.

CILLIZZA: Fear is a powerful motivator. And that is what Donald Trump is going for.

There's not a lot of fact behind that fear candidly, but fear is an irrational emotion, and that is what he's banking on.

KEILAR: And I'm curious to see how widely that works with voters like that.

Thank you, Chris, so much.

CILLIZZA: Thank you.

KEILAR: Our coverage will continue now with Brooke Baldwin.

[15:00:06]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Brianna, thank you. Hi, there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Good to be here.