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Interview with Former Madison, Wisconsin Mayor Paul Soglin; Children in Europe Return to School; New Book Reports 25th Amendment Papers Drawn Up During November Walter Reed Visit. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired September 01, 2020 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: He had a conspiracy theory about Ted Cruz's father being involved in the assassination. So he just -- he just does this, and he's doing it again.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Yes. I mean, as you remind people, there are some they might have forgotten, some that he's used against Republicans too.

The other way -- and this is arguably even more dangerous, right? Because he and his allies will use deceptive or even doctored video, which services such as Twitter have labeled as such. Are you seeing more of this?

DALE: Yes, they've been doing this throughout the campaign but we had four of them in a very short span, like two days on Sunday and Monday, we had the Trump campaign's so-called War Room account tweet a grossly misleading video in which they tried to make Joe Biden seem confused, saying you won't be safe in Joe Biden's America.

In fact, he was saying that while Trump and Pence argue, quote, "You won't be safe in Joe Biden's America," that's ridiculous because Biden said the violence we're seeing right now is taking place in Trump's America.

We had a White House aide, Dan Scavino, tweet a video in which they replaced the legendary entertainer Harry Belafonte falling asleep in a 2011 interview with Joe Biden, wrongly making it seem as if Biden fell asleep.

We had the president himself tweet a video of a random 2019 New York City crime with the label "Black Lives Matter/Antifa" as if they were responsible, they aren't.

And we had a senior Republican, Congressman Steve Scalise, add two words to a quote in an exchange Biden had with a progressive activist, that the progressive activist never said. And it was even more egregious because this activist has the disease ALS and speaks with a computerized artificial voice, so they were adding, in this artificial voice, words that he didn't say in that exchange.

SCIUTTO: Listen, folks, it's disinformation, which by definition is deliberate, and many of these things are flat-out lies. Daniel Dale, thank you for keeping tabs on them. We'll keep doing this as often as we can.

Well, for more on another story we've been following today, social unrest unfolding in some American cities: What it means for the 2020 election. I'm joined now by the former mayor of Madison, Wisconsin, Paul Soglin.

Mayor, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

FMR. MAYOR PAUL SOGLIN, MADISON, WISCONSIN: Good morning, thanks.

SCIUTTO: So I want to ask you, you told "Politico" this week that looting and violence taking place in cities like Kenosha are playing into Trump's hands. In your view, when you saw the former vice president yesterday very definitively say, looting, violent protest, that's not OK. An important message to hear from the Democratic nominee?

SOGLIN: I think it is. I think it's important for all of us, particularly the leaders of the protests. This is something we encountered, you know, 50 years ago, and it continues today. We've got a very tiny group that uses the cover of a larger peaceful protest to do some property damage and lawless behavior.

It's incumbent upon all of us to say no, that is not acceptable. But that pales in comparison. I'm not in any way excusing some of this activity in Kenosha or Portland or elsewhere, but it pales in comparison to the change that has taken place in this nation since Donald Trump has become president.

It used to be that parents would take their teenage kids to the movie theater and drop them off, or take them to soccer practice. Now, they're taking them with highly deadly automatic weapons across state lines to kill people.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SOGLIN: This is Donald Trump's America.

SCIUTTO: Tell me the effect of hearing a sitting president defend that kind of vigilantism. I mean, he said it outright, you know? This is Kyle Rittenhouse, 17 year old charged now with homicide. The president, defending this and welcoming it, it seems, in some cities as his supporters come in in situations where police there do not want this, and local leaders. What is the significance of a sitting president endorsing that kind of activity?

SOGLIN: The culture of any organization, any government, any nation is set by the leader. And we here in the United States, in Donald Trump have a leader who's created a terribly flawed culture in his failure to not only speak out against racism and pander to the perpetrators of hate, but when he condones white nationalists, when he condones hate groups, as he's done continually in his administration, he's giving license, he is sending a message, he is encouraging exactly what we saw in Kenosha with this 17-year-old, conveyed across state lines by Mom (ph), kill people.

And he is setting the tone. It's something we should not be surprised about. Donald Trump's entire career, private and public, domestic and international, is to create chaos, create conflict and then sit back and say, I'm the one who brought you peace and tranquility. He did it with North Korea --

[10:35:21]

SCIUTTO: Right.

SOGLIN: -- he's doing it in the United States.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because -- and you noticed this as well, that people in your state, voters are distraught certainly about police officers murdering or using excessive force against African- Americans. But also for the safety of their communities. Tell us what the politics are there now, to the extent you can kind of put your finger on the pulse. Are these protests driving people, some people into the president's camp?

SOGLIN: I'm fearful that they may. We've got a president who came into office exploiting the politics of resentment. What he really did is he pandered to people, saying, I am not going to make your lives better, but I'm going to make the people who you dislike, I'm going to make their lives worse. And he's changed that into the politics of punishment.

And so now, what's happening is we've got a group of folks in the middle -- call them undecideds, call them fluid in terms of where they're going to pull the lever in November -- but they are torn. They are torn between the continuous murder and barbarism that African- Americans in particular are facing at the hands of law enforcement, and the safety of their neighbors' business, the safety of their community shopping.

And we've made great progress in this country in the last few years in waking up and understanding that there's a next (ph) enormous step we have to take in terms of dealing with institutional racism. Those folks were coming along with us. They're now having some doubts, and I'm just fearful.

And your last segment, where you outlined all the lies and betrayals we're seeing from Donald Trump, that they can be misled into believing that he will (INAUDIBLE) another four years make this country better for them.

SCIUTTO: Thanks for helping us see the view from the ground there, it's a complicated issue and a difficult one for many.

Paul Soglin, thanks for your help.

SOGLIN: Thank you.

[10:37:45] SCIUTTO: Well, for the first time in months, students are returning to class in France, and they need more than books and pencils as they head back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Today, millions of students in Europe are returning to classrooms. And for many students in France, masks are now mandatory. CNN's Melissa Bell is in Paris with the protocols now in place.

Melissa, what do they have to do there to try to keep themselves safe?

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, Jim, if you're over 11 and you're amongst the 12 million students here in France who headed back into the classroom today, for the first time for many in six months, you're going to be wearing a mask, and all day long.

This is the latest European country to try and get the kids back into school safely in the middle of this crisis, Jim. We'd seen already Germany, we'd seen Denmark, we'd seen Norway really focusing their efforts these last couple of weeks -- because their schoolkids went back to school earlier -- on testing, on fast testing in order to get the classrooms safely opened and kept open.

Here in France, the focus is much more on masks. As you know, here in Paris now, if you're outdoors, out on the street as well as in Marseille in the south of the country, you have to wear a mask all day, it's now mandatory any time you're outdoors.

So the French are slowly getting used to that. But for children in a classroom, clearly it brings all kinds of fresh concerns: the communication between students and their teachers, the communication between the kids, the amount of concentration you're going to have to do over the course of the day with the mask on.

But clearly, with the messaging as clear as it's been, those students over 11 headed back into the classroom with those masks on. It is the French approach to trying to get the kids back in safely.

And this of course, at a time when authorities here were very keen that it should happen for educational questions because of that question of social justice. If you're a kid who's been in a home with few books, little access to online learning, parents who are not able to support you because they're out doing their job for instance, you're going to have faced a massive disadvantage compared to a child who does have access to help, to good online learning and to books.

And the French authorities have been very clear, they want to fix that gap problem, hence the determination to get the kids back to school. And this, in the face of really worrying figures. What we've seen these last few weeks are the number of new cases here in France, Jim, steadily rising. The French have said they'll do everything they can to bring them down, but keeping kids out of school was simply not an option.

SCIUTTO: Wow, amazing to see that graph go up there too. Melissa Bell in Paris, thanks very much.

[10:44:40]

Well, a new book claims that the vice president, Mike Pence, was placed on standby to assume the powers of the presidency when -- you may remember -- the president took an unannounced trip -- that's video there -- to the hospital last year, never quiet explained why. We're going to have details on this, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: This morning, there are new questions over President Trump's unannounced visit to the Walter Reed Hospital last November, according to a copy of "The New York Times'" reporter Michael Schmidt's forthcoming book obtained by CNN.

Schmidt says he learned, quote, "In the hours leading up to Trump's trip to the hospital, word went out in the West Wing for the vice president to be on standby to take over the powers of the presidency temporarily if Trump had to undergo a procedure that would have required him to be anesthetized."

Joining me now, CNN White House correspondent John Harwood and CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, back with us. John, let me begin with you. Remind us what the White House claimed previously about this visit, and how this contradicts that.

[10:50:10]

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jim, what the White House said last November, after the president made this unannounced trip to Walter Reed, was that it was part of getting a head start on his annual physical.

That didn't make much sense because typically, those annual physicals are announced well in advance, it's on the president's schedule. And in fact, the president did have an annual physical, the results of which were released in June, that's seven months later. That again, that simply doesn't add up.

And what Mike Schmidt's reporting suggests is that the circumstances were somewhat more urgent than a routine annual physical because nobody gets anesthetized in order to have a physical conducted.

We don't know what they might be concealing that -- we just know that they haven't been transparent. Is this connected to anything physical that people have observed in the president since then? We simply don't know. But what we do know is the White House has not been forthcoming about it.

SCIUTTO: Sanjay, you and I talked about this at the time. And at the time, you made the point that there's so much medical support and facility in the White House, that to have to go to the hospital was an indicator -- right? -- that there was something more you needed there.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.

SCIUTTO: And again, I know we're asking you to read tea leaves here, which is not what doctors want to do. But given Schmidt's reporting, the possibility of anesthesia, having to leave to go to Walter Reed, what does this tell you?

GUPTA: Well, the story doesn't add up. I mean, still, even after all these months, the story doesn't add up for -- in part for the reasons that you mentioned. This was a very unusual visit, as John mentioned.

On Saturday, Dr. Conley got in the vehicle with the president, that doesn't happen. Typically, the physician -- White House physician -- is in a separate part of the convoy, the motorcade because they need to take care of the president if something were to happen, so they need to be able to get to that vehicle. All these things just don't add up.

What was interesting, exactly to your point, is that there are lots of capabilities within the White House. And we looked into this, you know, we talked to previous White House doctors, most things you can take care of in the White House unless it really comes to some sophisticated imaging. Obviously anything -- as John mentioned -- that would require anesthesia. And that's typically either the brain or the heart. That's typically what it involves.

So we asked Dr. Conley about it at the time, and what he subsequently said is that the president did not have any chest pain, nor was he evaluated or treated for any urgent or acute issues. He did not undergo any specialized cardiac or neurological evaluations.

So here we are. You know, and medical information is understandably very protected, and so we may never know. But I think it's safe to say, so many months later, it still doesn't add up. That urgent -- if not emergent -- visit to Walter Reed on a Saturday, typically is related to things that they say didn't happen. So here we are.

SCIUTTO: Right. Now, you -- what is the precedent here, right? Yes, medical information is private, but he is the elected leader of this country and there's a certain obligation by practice -- previous practice at least -- to share that information. Is this a break with past practice, to not be forthcoming?

GUPTA: Certainly if what Michael Schmidt wrote in his book is true, that they were considering invoking the 25th Amendment, that would be very different than previous precedent.

You know, we heard about this with Regan back in 1981, paperwork was drawn up at the time that the assassination attempt occurred. And twice with President George W. Bush, both times for colonoscopies. The 25th Amendment was invoked, at least the first time, where the presidency was handed over to Dick Cheney for a couple of hours during that time. So that was done, it was disclosed, it was -- they were very transparent about it.

In this case, it sounds like the paperwork -- again, according to Michael Schmidt's reporting -- was drawn up but, you know, was not actually executed, and were not -- as journalists or the public -- not informed about it.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And there was the incident with the pretzel, right? You remember, during the Bush presidency.

John, just very quickly before we go, White House response to this?

HARWOOD: The White House hasn't said much of anything about this, and we haven't seen a presidential tweet so we're going to have to wait and see whether the president takes any questions on his way to Kenosha today to -- whether he addresses it.

SCIUTTO: Yes, well, these would be extraordinary circumstances to prepare to hand over the powers of the presidency, even for a short period of time. John Harwood, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks to both of you.

GUPTA: You got it, thank you.

[10:54:57]

SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto. NEWSROOM with my colleague John King will start after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Hello everybody, I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing this busy news day with us.

[10:59:52]

The president, on his way to Wisconsin this hour, ignoring the advice of the governor and Kenosha's mayor, and injecting himself into the middle of a racial tinderbox. Not on the president's itinerary? A meeting with the family of Jacob Blake. He of course is the unarmed black man shot seven times in the back by police nine days ago.