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White House Task Force Reports Sound Alarm as Trump Paints Rose Picture; Report: Government Offering $250 Million for Coronavirus P.R. Contract; Trump: Virus "Will Go Away" If We Reach Herd Immunity; Trump Retweets QAnon Quack on Virus Death Numbers; Experts Renew Calls for Caution as Labor Day Weekend Approaches; Dr. Discusses Testing and Positivity Rates, Vaccines; Trump Speaks Ahead of Trip to Wisconsin. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 01, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: The president on his way to Wisconsin this hour, ignoring the advice of the governor and Kenosha's mayor in injecting himself into the middle of a racial tinder box.

Not on the president's itinerary, a meeting with the familiar life Jacob Blake. He, of course, is the unarmed black man shot seven times in the back by police nine days ago.

The Wisconsin trip comes nine weeks to Election Day. Race and policing are without a doubt a big issue.

But the coronavirus pandemic is the biggest issue. And seven months in, we're still getting mixed messages and conflicting advice from the president and his experts.

The U.S. world worse coronavirus case count sits sadly over six million infections. And 183,000 Americans have died. Dr. Anthony Fauci says that 1838,000 is sad but accurate.

Dr. Fauci was compelled to make that clear because the president again tried to muddy the facts. And in this case, re-tweeting a baseless QAnon quack who insists, absent facts, that CDC data show the coronavirus death toll is far, far lower than the officially reported numbers.

That constant tension between what the president says and the data is a recurring pandemic headache. Newly released White House Coronavirus Task Force reports highlight several more examples of his experts sounding alarms, warning states of new red zones.

Even as the president, who we should note skips most task force meetings, offers the public a far more rosy outlook.

The constant tension and conflict now making it hard to know whom to trust. And that now that fueling giant worry that the Food and Drug Administration may rush a vaccine to market to satisfy a president who has promised a vaccine before the election.

Listen. The FDA chief, Dr. Stephen Hahn, said he would consider an emergency use authorization for a vaccine. That's from a weekend interview.

And last night, he acknowledged, yes, he's under a lot of pressure but insists this pressure is not out of bounds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Have you felt pressured politically to make a decision one way or another?

DR. STEPHEN HAHN, CDC DIRECTOR: I have not been pressured politically to make an incorrect decision.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: How about pressure to make what you think is a correct decision?

HAHN: I mean, there's been pressure throughout this pandemic. I think anybody who doesn't acknowledge that would be kidding themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The president certainly hopes you feel less stressed about the pandemic by the time you vote.

And the White House apparently wants to spend $250 million of your money to help make that help.

Let's get straight to CNN's Nick Valencia.

Nick, take us inside this important reporting.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, pressing question, John, since the beginning of the pandemic, these health agencies working in the best interest of the American public, or are they putting politics ahead of science?

It's an even more relevant question today after "Politico" obtained an HHS document which shows that they are putting out a bid for a $250 million contract to communications firm to, quote, "defeat despair and inspire hope" on the coronavirus.

We want to share with you part of what "Politico" obtained here saying, quote, "By harnessing the power of traditional, digital and sports and entertainment industries and the public health administrations and other creative partners to create important public health information, the administration can defeat despair and inspire hope and achieve national recovery."

News about this contract, John, comes curiously just two months before the November elections and as health agencies are facing questions from critics on just how independent they are from the White House. You remember last week we broke the news here, according to a federal

health official, that the testing recommendations for the CDC were adjusted, changed, because of pressure from the White House.

One thing is very clear here, that the health agencies in America are facing a shortfall of confidence as the coronavirus cases surpass six million in the U.S. -- John?

KING: Nick Valencia, yes, appreciate that reporting, and your continued reporting on these conflicting signals, shall we say, and political pressure. And $250 million of taxpayer money to make you feel better.

OK. Nick, keep on top of that one.

Joining me now to continue conversation is CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, again, we're having a covering that I wish we didn't have to have, and that is mixed signals from the administration or things that the president says that are confusing.

We know Dr. Scott Atlas, who was brought into the White House Coronavirus Task Force, he apparently is an advocate for the so-called herd immunity, more people will be exposed and then eventually will be OK.

This came up last night, although that's not exactly what the president was asked about.

Listen to this exchange with Laura Ingraham.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX HOST, "INGRAHAM REPORT": On the flu vaccines in Massachusetts, they are mandating that children get flu vaccines in order to go back to school.

There's a controversy about that. A lot of parents are like, whoa, wait, we don't want our kids to get the flu vaccines.

Are you worried that on the push for vaccines, these fast vaccines for COVID you might be splitting a coalition of Americans, frankly, in both parties who aren't comfortable with forcing vaccines?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, once you get to a certain number -- we use the word herd, right? Once you get to a certain number, it's going to go away so it doesn't have to be. But, yes, I mean, a lot of people are not going to want to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: There's a whole lot we could unpack there from both sides of that conversation.

Number one, there's not a ton of controversy about flu vaccines. Flu vaccines are safe. There's an anti-vaxxer community out there that spreads that information. But flu vaccines are safe and good.

[11:05:09]

But the president was asked about vaccines and he moves on to the herd. Explain.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's -- it's tough to sometimes understand what he's talking about to be honest, John. So I heard that before.

And it is worth pointing this out that herd immunity is this idea that enough people are immunized against this virus that the virus has a hard time jumping around. It can't find a suitable host.

How do you get to herd immunity? Well, there's two different ways really, either from natural infection, which we can talk about. That's a bad way to get the herd immunity, or you can do it through vaccination, which is a much safer and effective way if you have a safe and effective vaccine to get to herd immunity.

So the term herd immunity I think gets a little bit confused and maybe unfairly malign. You can get to herd immunity in a safe and effective way if you have a safe and effective vaccine.

Was the president suggesting let the natural infection rip through the country? I couldn't tell from that answer that he just gave. But that would be a bad way to do it. You know, close to maybe -- between 1.5 million to two million people would die.

We don't know how long that immunity would last and would probably take, according to our calculations, four years to get to herd immunity so that's a bad way to do it.

KING: Right. It is a bad way to do it.

Another source of, again, repeated conflict between the president and the top scientists.

I want you to listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci on "ABC This Morning."

The president retweeted this quack last night suggesting that number that you see on side of your screen, 183,649 at the moment, that that's an overinflated number, that the media is trying to hype up this number to hurt the president and it's much lower. That's what the president says.

Here's what Dr. Fauci says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The point that the CDC was trying to make is that a certain percentage of them had nothing else but just COVID.

That does not mean that someone who has hypertension or diabetes who dies of COVID didn't die of COVID-19. They did. So the numbers that you've been hearing, the 180,000-plus deaths are real deaths from COVID-19. Let there not be any confusion about that. It's not 9,000 deaths from COVID-19. It's 180,000-plus deaths.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That number is stunning, and it's on its way to 200,000. Most projections are 300,000 by the middle of December, which is Pittsburgh. That's the size of a modest American city. And yet, Dr. Fauci again trying to clear up the confusion there.

But listen to the president last night, Sanjay, saying, oh, yes, Fauci, he was here when I got here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I get along with him. But every once in a while he'll come up with one and I say where did that come from? I inherited him. He was here. He was a part of this huge piece of machine. I didn't put anybody in charge. He was here. He's been here for 40 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: He'll come up with one where I say where did that come, like wear a mask? Like social distance? Like be careful and cautious? Like remember this vaccine doesn't discriminate? It's nuts.

GUPTA: This is -- this is a strategic minimizing of scientific information and, in this case, a minimizing of one of the truth- tellers of scientific information, Dr. Fauci.

Where did it come from? It came from the science and the evidence. And sometimes people don't want to hear this stuff. I mean, people don't like bad news. The that -- that part is true.

But it doesn't mean that the truth doesn't need to be told.

I think what's interesting regarding what the CDC put out. First of all, the CDC, why are they putting that sort of stuff out because I think it does in part muddy the waters a bit.

And then, of course, it gets re-tweeted. The president re-tweets it and that amplifies this incorrect message.

And 180,000 people have died of COVID, a true number, like Dr. Fauci said. How do you know for sure? Well, you take care of these patients in hospitals.

And 140 million people have pre-existing conditions as things stand right now. That doesn't mean they are imminently going to die of those pre-existing conditions.

Here's another way to look at it. Right now, excess deaths in this country are around 200,000. So the number of people who have died during this time period this year as compared to the same time period last year, in excess of 200,000. Not all of those are COVID. But the vast majority are.

What else has caused all these excess deaths this year? It's been COVID. However you want to look at it.

The point is instead of actually tackling this problem, which we can do and which countries have done all over the world quite successfully, I might add, we continue to minimize the problem, pretending it's not there, and this is just another example of that.

KING: Another example of that.

And -- and you're following up on what Nick Valencia was just talking about, they want to spend $250 million of the taxpayer money to tell people not to feel so stressed about this. But the numbers don't lie, as they say, and the sad numbers on the side of the screen, right there.

Dr. Gupta, appreciate it. Back with more soon.

[11:09:01]

Up next, more confusion. Dr. Fauci now trying to clean up the doubts about who should be tested for COVID.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: It's now September, meaning Labor Day weekend is just ahead. That always a rite of passage, an end-of-summer celebration.

This year, that worries public health experts who say the siege of the coronavirus surge took root around the Memorial Day gateway to summer celebration.

So let's take a look at where we are as we approach Labor Day. Here's one way to look at the coronavirus pandemic. Pick where you live in the country, are you lighter or are you shaded darker?

If you're the deepest red, that means you have higher cases per 100,000 cases. The darker the red, especially across the southeast and the south, the deeper the red, the bigger the problem meaning more infections.

[11:15:02]

You see lighter parts of the country, are everywhere, of the coronavirus is everywhere. The question is, just how high is your rate of infection.

A different way to look at it right now in the here and now. 19 state, that's the orange and red, trending up, reporting more cases this week than last week. Not where you want to be.

But a lot of these are smaller state so the numbers aren't quite as high in terms of the overall case count. But 19 states trending up and 22 holding steady and nine states trending down. The downward trend does include Florida, Arizona and California.

Remember, those were three states along with Texas which is steady that drove the big august and July surge. They are now in better shape. Doesn't mean good shape but better shape.

Look at the overall case trend here. And here's what we want to watch as we go through the week. We now, Monday, 33,000, Sunday was below 40,000 as well. Have we timely shoved the baseline down below 40,000?

Sometimes you come out of weekend and you get lower numbers and they jump back up. You see that in some other weeks here. So we want to watch this, but right now they have shoved of it down.

The question is if you can get the baseline below 40,000, that's progress. I don't want to say it's good. A lot of public health experts would say, why didn't you keep it down when you had it down.

And 20,000 at beginning of the summer surge, so that's where we are at moment as we watch this play out. The states leading right now in terms of the most new infections California, Texas, Florida, Tennessee and Illinois. You do see the central part of the country right now is good.

You can look at it this way. The south drove the summer surge. It is starting to come down. The west, also part of the summer surge, has flattened out. And the Midwest, not a big jump, but it's trending up.

That's where these cases are coming from, the news, a lot are coming out of Midwest and the northeast. Come over here, went through this early and has consistently stayed down. The challenge is now can you keep it down in the back-to-school environment?

New testing is always an issue and you watch this play out. The number of new tests in the United States, 680,000 and changed yesterday. Public health officials want it above 800,000.

The administration says this is good. We surge test when we need it.

Another piece of data to watch is the positivity rate, which is now, on Monday, was below 5 percent. You want to get it below 5 percent and shove it down lower. That could be a sign of some progress.

In terms of positivity though, there's a debate in the public health community. New CDC guidelines, especially about asymptomatic people, saying maybe you don't need to get test.

Some experts are worried people won't get tested. That will drive that down falsely, temporarily, and then people will get symptoms and then we'll learn more. We don't know that for sure. We'll watch it.

But listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci, again, mixed signals from the administration. He says if you need a test, get a test but not everybody needs one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) FAUCI: There's no doubt that there's asymptomatic infection and asymptomatic people who can transmit and you can and should test asymptomatic people.

What the guideline was trying to do was to try to make the point that not everyone who wants to be tested should be tested, only if you need to be tested.

Understandably, that was confusing. Hopefully, that's been straightened out now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's bring in Dr. Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security.

Dr. Adalja, good to see you again.

Is that all cleared up right now? There's been confusion and some criticism from public health experts that what the CDC did, my words, tried to soften sort of the recommendation for who gets a test and a lot of public health experts were worried that they were discouraging people from getting tested.

Did Dr. Fauci clear it up for you?

DR. AMESH ADALJA, SENIOR SCHOLAR, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: He cleared it up somewhat. It is still a little confusing because you do have guidelines from the CDC and guidelines from your state and local health department which may in a contact trace of someone with significant exposure still recommend testing. That's what most of them are doing.

The clear message needs to be we want people to be tested as much as they need to be tested. It is true that not everybody needs testing, but we're still not testing enough. And people are being discouraged from getting tests because maybe the turnaround time is too long or wait is too long.

And if we move forward in this pandemic, the way to reduce the harm is by getting people a way to know their stat just, are they infectious, contagious or not.

And until we can test just like we do for HIV we'll still have cases that lead to transmission and undocumented chains of transmission that land on vulnerable people.

KING: And as we go through this, again, I'm going -- I can't say it's good, but it's hopeful for better anyway, progress, that the case count in the last couple of days is below 40,000. Let's hope to shove the baseline down.

What we're seeing is a number of smaller clusters or smaller reports of cases, some of them on college campuses.

I want to show you this. At least 260 cases in 12 states now have been traced back to that Sturgis rally. And 260 cases in 12 states traced back to one event, a motorcycle rally in Sturgis, South Dakota.

What does that tell you still about the possibility and the power of these super-spreader events?

ADALJA: We know that mass gatherings are going to be very difficult to have until we have a vaccine. And this was very predictable what happened in Sturgis. Many warned that this real, was going to create many different states.

[11:20:03]

And this really drew people from all over. And you can imagine how hard it is for contact tracers to figure out who was in contact with who.

And this is going to be the new normal, that any time you have a mass gathering like this, that brings people from all over the country, it can affect other parts of the country.

And no matter how much control you have, you can lose the control with the mass gatherings. This is something you really have to watch and be careful about

KING: You mentioned until we get a vaccine. That is a big question. The president said it will be here by Election Day, by the end of the year. Some experts aren't that clear.

Big debate about emergency use authorization from the FDA, if somebody in the middle of phase three trials raise their hand and say we've got a good one here.

And then there's the question of do people trust it anyway, especially with conflicting signals from the administration.

Came up in the interview that in an interview with the president last night. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: So 35 percent say they are not going to take the COVID vaccine. They shouldn't be mandatory.

TRUMP: If you add 35 percent to the people who have had it and all the other things, people who have had it, they can't get it. Though they found one person, and they are making a big deal, one person got it twice. But if you add it all up it gives you very good protection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I can't follow that at all. He was asked about 35 percent who say they might not take the vaccine and he says, if you add it all up, it gives you very good protection. To me, that adds to the confusion out there.

If you have some skepticism about taking this vaccine, what is it that the president should be saying? ADALJA: The president should be talking about the fact that we're

doing phase three clinical trials that will tell us does this work, and is it safe in a large group of people, and if there's only going to be an approval when we have the threshold met, that this creates more benefit than risk.

And I think that's the problem that people are going to have because we know that there's been meddling with the FDA emergency use authorization process with Hydroxychloroquine, with -- with convalescent plasma. So there's going to be this confidence gap that people have when this is approved.

Back in H1N1, only 23 percent of people got the pandemic vaccine and that's tried and true. This is something that's going to be a challenge. And we want to make sure we're as transparent as possible.

We have a vaccine hesitancy movement and we have a new vaccine using new technologies. This will be communications challenge. We want clear messages from our leaders.

KING: Clear messages from our leaders would be nice seven months in. We haven't had a lot of that. But perhaps -- perhaps, I'm always an optimist.

Dr. Adalja, appreciate your insight. We'll see you again, I'm sure.

Still ahead for us, is there a kinder gentler President Trump? Speakers at the Republican convention tried to make that case. But the president's own words, that's the best way to judge for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm like standing here in a sea of incompetent people, stupid people and violent people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- a lot of people gathering on a plane here?

TRUMP: Yes, I can tell you that I can probably refer you to the person, and they could do it. I would like to ask that person if it was OK.

But a person was on a plane, said that there were about six people like that person morals. And what happened is the entire plane filled up with the looters, the anarchists, the rioters, people looking for trouble and the person felt very uncomfortable on the plane.

[11:25:05]

This would be a person that you know, so I will see whether or not I can get that person. I'll let them know and I'll see whether or not I can get that person to speak to you. But this was a firsthand account of a plane going from Washington to wherever, and I'll see if I can get that information for you. Maybe they will speak to you. Maybe they won't.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

TRUMP: I think a lot of people are looking at what's happening to these Democrat-run cities, and they are disgusting. They see what's going on, and they can't believe that this is taking place in our country. I can't believe it either.

One of the reasons I'm making the trip today and going to Wisconsin is we've had such a big success in shutting down what would be right now a city that would have been Kenosha, a city that would have been burnt to the ground by now.

And -- and we're going to really say hello to law enforcement and the National Guard.

And it all stopped immediately upon the National Guard's arrival. So, you know, it's easy to stock market. I saw last night where these radical anarchists.

And the mayor, all he has to do is call. Within ten minutes the problem will be over. They have to call us. Call us and request help. All he has to do and the problem will end.

They had tremendous numbers of people really harassing him horribly and I guess trying to break into his house and he still sticks up with them because he's a fool. Only a fool would stick up for them like this.

These are anarchists, agitators, rioters, looters, bad people. They are burning down Portland. And you take a look at that. You take a look at the scenes last night.

And then the fake news media will say that they are friendly protesters, because you people, I'll tell you, if we only had an honest press in this country it would be much more advanced, but we have a very dishonest press.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You've spoken a lot about the anarchy, did you speak about that?

TRUMP: If you look at the black community, they want the police to help them stop crime. The Hispanic community, they want police. And 82 percent, 84 percent, numbers that you haven't even seen. They don't want crime. They don't want to be mugged. They don't want to have any problems. And it's just a shame.

And as far as the previous administration, take a look at Baltimore, what happened? Was it Freddy grey? Take a look at Baltimore. Take a look at St. Louis. Take a look at Ferguson. Take a look at what happened. What they had was -- put what we're doing -- it put them to shame. Put

them to shame. Take a look at those places, and you always had Portland. Portland has been like this, I read an article, for 50 years this has been going on.

I would like to stop it, and we can stop it quickly. All they have to do is say, OK, president, now we're ready. Now we're ready.

When I watched that scene last night with all of those really horrible people outside of the mayor's house.

I also saw the way they shot the young gentleman in the street. He was targeted. They targeted him. They shot him in the street and then they were so happy that he died. You don't mention that.

You mention somebody spray painted somebody from the other side. They shot a man in the street. They executed a man in the street, a religious man in the street, and you don't mention it. It's not even a story. You talk about other things. The press should be ashamed of themselves.

I think the press is actually -- the media is what's fueling this, more so than even Biden because Biden doesn't know he's alive. The press is really fueling this. And they are fueling it horribly. And you're doing a great disservice to your country. OK.

Any other questions?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

TRUMP: I may. No, I may. I'm also going to be speaking with a pastor who was talking to, as per your question previously, very well involved and a respected man. I look forward to that.

I spoke to him yesterday, by the way. Pastor of the family, as you know, and I spoke to him yesterday and had a great conversation.

And I'm speaking really today there for law enforcement and for the National Guard because they have done a great job in Kenosha.

[11:30:03]

They have put out the flames immediately. As soon as they came in, boom, the flame was gone. Now maybe it will start up again in which case they will put it out very powerfully.