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DHS Withheld Warning About Russian Smear Campaign Against Biden?; College COVID-19 Outbreaks; Study Shows Steroids Reduce COVID Deaths. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 02, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:04]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You are watching CNN. Thank you so much for being here.

We start with new concerns about the U.S. response to the coronavirus pandemic, with, of course, a long holiday weekend and the start of flu season just around the corner.

More than 1,000 Americans died yesterday, with the overall death toll now above 185,000. And another sign of trouble, the seven-day average of new cases increased week over week for the first time since July.

But it's really the Midwest that's the biggest hot spot right now,with cases there surging and, in particular, Iowa. Iowa had a 22 percent positivity rate in testing yesterday. And you're thinking, what does that mean? What that means is that more than one in five people has tested, and tested positive for the virus.

The White House Coronavirus Task Force is calling for Iowa to make changes immediately in order to stop the spread. Those recommendations include closing bars and a statewide mask mandate. That is something Iowa's governor still refuses to implement.

Is President Trump concerned about this? It doesn't appear so. He was just over the border in Wisconsin yesterday, and did not mention coronavirus whatsoever, not a single word.

And in yet another sign of the federal government's chaotic response to COVID, a medical panel at the National Institutes of Health is now directly contradicting President Trump and the FDA, saying that there is no evidence to support the use of convalescent plasma to treat COVID patients.

The FDA just fast-tracked approval of the treatment.

So, let's talk about that in a second.

But new research today does show that steroids may improve the survival rate of people who are seriously ill with COVID.

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is standing by with that.

And so, Elizabeth, what does the analysis of the steroids actually show?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, what they found is that steroids do appear to save lives.

And this is confirming something doctors have known for some time. I remember talking to doctors in New York City back in March. And they said, look, we're using steroids because they have worked in other situations with other viruses. We're going to try them.

Well, their medical instincts were right. Let's take a look at the numbers that come from this very large U.K. trial.

What they found when they looked at more than 1,700 COVID patients is that among 678 patients treated with steroids, about 33 percent died. When you looked at around 1,000 patients who got usual care, or placebo, in other words, they didn't get steroids, about almost 42 percent died.

That's a significant difference. What this tells you is, if you were in this situation, you would want steroids. And so it's good to know that what doctors have been doing for a while, that the statistics bear them out -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: What about the story about the plasma? I mean, I have had COVID. I have got the antibodies. I have given my plasma. Thank goodness for the American Red Cross. I want to give again.

But then when I see this, the contradiction between what the NIH and the FDA is saying on the use of convalescent plasma to help to treat COVID patients, what's the truth?

COHEN: You know what, Brooke? This is -- there has been so much back- and-forth about this. I'm going to talk about the back-and-forth. And then I'm going to give you what I think is the bottom line.

So, the back-and-forth is, the FDA gives it an authorization. Then an NIH panel comes out, saying, look, this shouldn't be standard of care. There's just not enough evidence for it. All the good things that Brooke Baldwin and others did, it doesn't look like it necessarily works. It shouldn't be the standard of care.

But now the NIH just now gave a statement to CNN that says that what they say doesn't contradict the FDA, because the NIH did not make a recommendation against the use of plasma.

So, if you can follow all that, basically, what the NIH is saying, we didn't say not to use it.

So, I'm going to give you my bottom line.

BALDWIN: Yes.

COHEN: Let's forget about the government acronyms. Let's forget about the double negatives and say this.

I spoke to several doctors who are as cynical and curmudgeonly as they come, brilliant people, but also cynical. And I said, if you or your spouse were in the hospital with COVID-19, very sick, would you want convalescent plasma? And they said yes.

They said, do I -- am I sure that it would work? Absolutely not. The data is not great. It is not there yet, but it's probably not going to hurt me. And it could possibly help me. That is the way that they phrased it.

In other words, this is not hydroxychloroquine.

BALDWIN: Yes.

COHEN: Those doctors didn't want hydroxychloroquine. This is different.

BALDWIN: Yes, thank you for cutting through it and just giving me the straight skinny on it.

And so when I keep getting all these texts, American Red Cross saying, please come back and give, I will.

Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.

COHEN: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Just within this last hour, Iowa State is reversing course on a plan to allow thousands of fans to attend its college football home opener, the decision coming as Iowa reports a 77 percent jump in new cases this week, compared to the previous week.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is live for us in Des Moines.

And so, Omar, what's the story about Iowa State's change in plans? Are our fans allowed, or no?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, for now, they're not going to be allowed for this opening football game.

[15:05:02]

And it's the decision the athletics department said they had to reverse after watching the data and how this recent coronavirus surge has played out here in Iowa. They said the decision came after weighing community feedback.

And they hope to have fans and future games. But, again, they say it depends how the campus reacts and is affected by the recent surge we have seen in Iowa. The White House Coronavirus Task Force puts out weekly reports sent out to governors on a state-by-state basis.

And the most recent one looks at just, over the course of this past week, Iowa has the highest case rate in the country and a test positivity rate that puts them in the top five. And one of the major concerns, because this report also puts out recommendations, comes from having a plan for universities. And it's a concern that even the governor, Kim Reynolds, here has had and tried to put it out plainly in numbers in a press conference she had earlier this afternoon, saying that, when you look at Johnson County, which is where the University of Iowa is, from August 2 to August 8 -- that's before students got to campus -- there were 712 new cases; 18 percent of those were those 19 to 24 years old.

From August 23 to 29, once students were back, that number of cases went to 1,390, for a positivity rate of 30 percent. And 74 percent of those cases were in ages 19 to 24.

Now, along with the recommendations of trying to have a specific plan for universities, they also recommend putting in place a mask mandate, something Governor Reynolds has been reluctant to do, saying that, if they were able to lower the cases before without a mask mandate, they're going to try and do it again, despite the task force report recommending them to do so.

The task force report also recommends that bars close down and that restaurant capacities are significantly reduced, because, again, as we have seen these numbers go up, we have seen how far they can go. And task force officials are hoping Iowa is able to send things in the opposite direction -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's hope so.

Omar, thank you so much in Des Moines.

So, let's explore all of this with my next guest, Amy Compton- Phillips, chief clinical officer at Providence Health System. And she's also a CNN medical analyst.

So, Dr. Compton Phillips, pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much.

And let's start with what Omar was just talking about there in Des Moines, Iowa State just reversing course, and the plan to allow the 25,000 fans to go in for the football game, no dice. That's not happening anymore.

I'm just curious. In this current climate, do you foresee any scenario where thousands of fans can pack into a stadium?

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: You know, I think they can pack into a stadium in New Zealand, but that's because New Zealand has the virus under control.

And that's the secret is that, if we get the virus under control, we can resume our lives again. And that's why things like mask mandates and doing very broad testing make a huge difference. It's the way we can get the virus under control.

And so it's not giving up to require a mask. It's actually helping us get our lives back. BALDWIN: How about the news on the steroids? I was just talking about

this with Elizabeth Cohen, that the use of steroids to treat some 1,700 patients with COVID, showing that deaths were significantly reduced by taking these steroids.

How encouraged are you by this?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: I'm incredibly encouraged.

The big problem when COVID hit was that everybody was susceptible, right, nobody had antibodies to it, and we had no treatments. And so that, as time goes on, even before we get to a vaccine, very slowly, less people will be susceptible, not going for herd immunity, right? This is not where we're not actively trying to get everybody infected.

But we will have less and less people that are susceptible, and we will continue to acquire more treatments, so steroids definitely a critical element, particularly because they're affordable, so -- which is fantastic. So, not only in the U.S., but worldwide, these are useful, in addition to remdesivir, in addition to all the nursing the care that we found that really helped people, things like delaying putting people on a ventilator and making sure that, if they are short of breath, we can use high levels of oxygen and put them on their stomach.

So, lots of treatments now that we can make a difference.

BALDWIN: It's amazing how, as these months pass, and there's been so many questions about how to treat, it feels like we're slowly starting to get our hands around what is helpful.

And then the other piece of what's helpful is this notion of convalescent plasma. And I would just love your opinion this apparent contradiction, although, listening to Elizabeth, it sounds like NIH was trying to clear up what they were saying in terms of whether or not it is beneficial for folks who've had COVID, who have the antibodies, to give their convalescent plasma to people who are super sick.

Would you take someone's plasma, if you were super sick, I guess, is the best way to ask it?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Yes, so let me just start by saying, thank you, and thanks to every single other person who has done what we have asked, and donated plasma.

[15:10:00]

We couldn't even begin to get answers, we couldn't even begin to offer this as a treatment unless people don't go into the Red Cross and donate. So, thank you. Bless you for that.

BALDWIN: Of course. Of course.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: But, second of all, yes, I would probably take plasma, but I would do it in the context of a clinical study. And that's the secret, is that we can't just declare victory. We can't

just say, hey, we think this works and doing it, right? We have to do the work in the meantime to prove what works and what doesn't and what makes a difference.

And so that really is what we're trying to do with plasma. And so emergency use authorization has authorized it based on some glimmers of hope, but it's not proof. And so we need to keep working to get that proof.

BALDWIN: It's incredible. Having given the plasma -- and I have never even given. Shame on me. I'm outing myself. I have never even given blood in my life.

And I sat there at the American Red Cross a couple weeks ago, and they take -- it took 45 minutes. It was easy-peasy. And they call it liquid gold. And it's hanging there in a sack, and it goes to like three people who are super sick.

And just the idea that maybe, maybe, maybe it could help someone, to me, felt worth it.

Dr. Compton-Phillips, thank you very much.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up: Dr. Anthony Fauci is now warning that sending college students back home after an outbreak is -- quote -- "the worst thing you could do." So, where should they go?

And after doubting the coronavirus death toll, like many conspiracy theorists often do, Iowa Senator Joni Ernst is now saying something different. We have those details.

And the administration continues to suggest that COVID isn't really a threat to kids. Well, guess who I get to talk to? A 13-year-old still struggling with symptoms months after testing positive. Do not miss that interview.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:03]

BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN, I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Colleges and universities, they are struggling to contain coronavirus outbreaks on their campus. There are now more than 25,000 COVID infections at various schools in 37 states. Look, all the red -- all the red on your screen.

And while college administrators are scrambling just to figure out the best way to handle the outbreaks, Dr. Fauci has a clear message: Do not send students home.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: It's the worst thing you could do. Keep them at the university in a place that is sequestered enough from the other students, but don't have them go home, because they could be spreading it in their home state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: One of the highest case counts of any college so far is at the University of South Carolina, now reporting more than 1,000 students infected with the virus, and already their quarantine space is 60 percent full.

So, with me now Erin Slowey, editor in chief of the University of South Carolina student newspaper "The Daily Gamecock."

So, Erin, welcome.

Listen, when you hear from folks like Fauci saying, if students are sick on college campuses, wherever in the country, like, don't go home. But then when I hear about South Carolina's available quarantine space filling up so quickly, what are you hearing? What are students doing? Are they going home, or no?

ERIN SLOWEY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE DAILY GAMECOCK": Well, I think it's a combination of both.

To be honest, I feel like the university and the administration has put out the message that, if you -- if we run out of spaces, we will have to go home. They're going to try the best that they can to find other spaces, but I think students will ultimately go home.

But it also really discourages people from getting tested, which is a big concern, because if students don't want the university to close, then they won't get tested.

BALDWIN: That's not a good thing.

How's the university handling it? What are they doing?

SLOWEY: Well, it's been interesting.

The communication from the university has -- is very inconsistent. There's not one solid place where everyone can get information. Yes, they have a Web site, but it's kind of been a trickle of information. You get it from the press, you get it from news breaking in town halls.

So, I think a lot of people are very confused, from the parents and students that I have talk to about it.

BALDWIN: What are you doing, personally? I mean, are you attending any classes? Are you there off campus? What's your story?

SLOWEY: Yes, so I have -- most of my classes are hybrid. So, what that means for me is, some days, I will go in person to class, and some days, it will be online.

But what's even more interesting, too, is that the university is reporting a certain amount of classes being 100 percent online, but I don't know how much of that is true, because I know, for me in my classes in the registrar, they haven't changed the mode of instruction, even though I know my classes have changed.

So I'm not sure how much that reporting is actually accurate on the university level.

BALDWIN: How incredibly frustrating for you students.

And then the other piece of this, which I'm also super curious about, is just how people, students still go into parties, which they're not supposed to. I know the university is giving, I read, interim suspension to a handful of students in six Greek organizations for violating the rules and hosting parties.

And I have to imagine that, just thinking back to my college days, it's like you don't want to snitch on a fellow student for going to a party, but, at the same time, I'd want to be healthy and not be around those students.

So what is the sense on or around campus between the students who are following the rules and those who aren't?

SLOWEY: Yes.

Well, it's definitely frustrating, because I think, for a lot of students, they follow the rules while they're on campus, but not necessarily off campus.

So I also don't necessarily think that the students that are in the classrooms are actually the people, the majority of the people that are out partying. So the people that are out partying are probably the people that don't care if school goes online, because the university, the majority of our students live off campus.

And they do plan -- from the people I have talked to, they plan to stay if the university goes online.

BALDWIN: So, if you or someone you knew of was hosting a party and they shouldn't, I mean, would students call it in?

SLOWEY: I think it depends on the student, to be honest and to be frank.

[15:20:01]

I -- there was a party with over 200 and 300 people last weekend, and not a single person got in trouble with the university. And the thing that I have to make clear is that people have to report it to the university for the university to do something about it.

We may see it on social media. But if no one reports it, that's why we have numbers of 15 people and -- 15 people only getting suspended from the university.

BALDWIN: When the number should probably be much higher.

I'm hearing what you're throwing down.

Erin Slowey, thank you so much. And just as a student journalist, we need you. Good luck.

SLOWEY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Coming up: Republican Senator Joni Ernst now is apparently changing her tune on the coronavirus death toll, after initially siding with conspiracy theorists.

And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, hmm, take a look at this video, violating restrictions on indoor hair appointments in San Francisco.

What the speaker's team is saying about what she did not do -- next.

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[15:25:58]

BALDWIN: As he fights for reelection, President Trump has questioned former Vice President Joe Biden's mental fitness. And he has done this everywhere, from the campaign trail to TV ads.

But a new report claims that Russia is actually behind the plot to spread misinformation about Joe Biden's mental capacity, and that the Department of Homeland Security withheld a warning from the intelligence community about it.

This is according to ABC News.

Senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is on this for us today.

And so, Evan, what did the warning say? And then who at DHS decided to keep it quiet?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, this was a warning that was being sent out to law enforcement back in July, but it was never sent, because the Homeland Security chief of staff decided to intervene and said that it essentially wasn't ready for prime-time, that this was something that needed more work to verify the accuracy of the information.

But I will read you just a part of the draft that ABC News reported on today.

It said -- quote -- "Russian malign influence actors are likely to continue denigrating presidential candidates through allegations of poor mental and physical health to influence the outcome of the 2020 election." In particular, the Russian activity was aimed at propelling this idea that Joe Biden has some kind of mental problem, that his health is not up to par. Obviously, this is something, as you pointed out, that the president and his campaign have been doing.

Saw Hogan Gidley this morning on television this morning again repeating these claims, which have no basis in fact, as far as we can tell.

Again, this is something that the Homeland Security Department said wasn't ready to be spread out beyond the Homeland Security Department. I will read you to what they said today.

They said that: "This particular draft product lacked the necessary context and evidence for broader dissemination."

I should say, Brooke, that this was actually the kind of information that the intelligence community has already publicly now shared with the American public, that this is exactly what the Russians are up to.

BALDWIN: All right, Evan Perez, thank you for that update.

And now to another reelection effort here, that reelection effort this time in the Senate involving Trump ally Senator Joni Ernst. Like the president, the Iowa Republican is casting doubt on COVID-19, reportedly saying that she was -- quote, unquote -- "so skeptical" of the number of deaths caused by the virus after a man attending a campaign rally claimed the fatality count is being exaggerated.

When later asked to clarify her comments, she said this:

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): I have heard it from health care providers that they do get reimbursed higher amounts if it's a COVID-related illness or death, so because of the additional expense for PPE and the treatment that might be necessary for COVID-19.

QUESTION: Do you think that numbers are being inflated because of that?

ERNST: That, I'm not sure.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was on Monday.

Today, in a statement to "The Des Moines Register," this is what she said -- quote -- "Over 180,000 Americans have died because of COVID- 19. What matters is that we're getting the resources to Iowa that are needed to fight this virus, and that's what I'm focused on."

Now, all of that is happening as her state is reporting the nation's highest rate of new cases, prompting the White House Coronavirus Task Force to call for a mask mandate and bar closures in the state of Iowa. CNN's Daniel Dale is in Washington.

And so, Daniel, Senator Ernst, her initial comments are similar to conspiracy theories pushed by QAnon. What more can you tell us?

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: So, all of this nonsense from Senator Ernst, from President Trump, and from others is based on a gross misreading of CDC statistics that appears to have made its way from Facebook to QAnon people on Twitter, to the president's campaign and to the president's own feed, the president himself sharing this misinformation.

Here's the breakdown. The CDC says on its Web site that, of the about 160,000 people for whom it had coronavirus-related death certificates as of August 22, 94 percent of those people had something in addition to COVID-19 listed on the death certificate.