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CDC Tells States to Prepare to Distribute Vaccine By November; Biden to Meet with Jacob Blake's Family in Kenosha. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 03, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A good Thursday morning to you, I'm Jim Sciutto.

Get a vaccine game plan ready and early. That's what the CDC is telling states and major cities, instructing them to be ready to distribute a vaccine as soon as late October. But with potentially millions of Americans taking a vaccine, health experts are warning now is not the time to rush the science, to get this through those crucial trials early.

Dr. Anthony Fauci is also pleading with Americans not to let their guard down heading into the Labor Day weekend, especially as we're seeing cases spike across the Midwest, and we did see cases spike after previous summer holiday weekends.

Just minutes from now, I'm going to speak with Dr. Fauci live to discuss this and many other questions I'm sure you share.

And this, Joe and Jill Biden traveling to Kenosha, Wisconsin today, this after the shooting of Jacob Blake and just after that the shooting deaths of two protesters allegedly by a 17-year-old armed vigilante. The Bidens will meet with Blake's family, something that President Trump did not do on his visit there.

All this as Mr. Trump is now threatening to cut federal funding to several Democrat-led cities and states on the grounds. Their leaders are allowing anarchy, violence and destruction. It should be noted, he did not make that threat to the cities of Minneapolis and Kenosha, both in key swing states the president hopes to win in November.

First, let's go to CNN Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen on the CDC telling public health officials to prepare to distribute a vaccine by November.

Of course, that timing raising some eyebrows because the president has mentioned the possibility of having one before the election. Is this rushing the science? Are the scientists following the science or politics here? What's happening? ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's all -- it's all -- there's so many different nuances here. Let me pull this one out here. When the CDC says, hey, look, you know, be ready to distribute by early November, that doesn't mean there will be a vaccine by early November. It is standard when you're doing pandemic planning or any kind of planning for an emergency or a crisis situation to get people ready earlier rather than later.

Let's take a look at what the CDC said. They said that they would have limited COVID-19 vaccine doses that may be available by early November 2020, but COVID-19 vaccine supply will increase substantially in 2021.

So, does that mean that there will be a vaccine by Election Day? Not necessarily. Are some people a little suspicious, gee, why are they sort of putting this out there so early? Is it just a part of pandemic planning, or is there something else going on here? Are they trying to say, see, look, we'll have something by Election Day in order to help the president? In a way, really, it's in the eye of the beholder. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Listen, and we've seen meddling like this before. It's a genuine concern. So tell us about the surge in cases we're seeing in Midwestern states. You know, one region after another has sort of followed, you know, no one is immune from this. Is this largely about college campuses or is it other things?

COHEN: You know, to some extent, it is, and to some extent, Jim, it's exactly what you just said, which is that it's just moving across the country. Think of it as like a snake swallowing a mouse. That mouse just moves, went from New York City to places like Texas and Florida and now we're seeing it in the Midwest. We will surprised if we didn't see it, right? This is a virus. It just does what viruses do, which is go from person to person, from region to region.

So, let's take a look at some of those numbers in Iowa. What we're seeing in Iowa is that it is now considered a red zone by the White House coronavirus task force, a 77 percent increase in cases from the previous weeks and that's 232 cases per 100,000 people. Nationally, it's 88 cases per 100,000 people, so you can see that that is a big difference.

And let's take a look, you mentioned college campuses. There's certainly quite a bit going on there. University of Iowa, Illinois State, University of Missouri, Iowa State, all have more than 600 cases since the beginning of the semester. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Elizabeth Cohen, thanks for bringing us the numbers.

In just a minute, a few minutes, I'm going to speak with Dr. Anthony Fauci about a whole host of topics. I'm sure you're interested as well, including the search for a coronavirus vaccine and the timeline.

All right, in Iowa, as cases surge and as concerns grow from the White House coronavirus task force, the governor is not issuing a mask mandate. CNN's Omar Jimenez is in Des Moines with more.

I mean, listen, the science is showing more and more evidence that masks make a real difference here.

[10:05:04]

So what's holding the governor back?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the governor at this point, the basic line of reasoning from her standpoint, is that they were able to decrease the amount of cases beforehand without the mask mandate earlier in the year and she's hoping to use some of those similar strategies. But keep in mind, at that point, they were putting in place safer at home orders and even shelter in place in some cases.

This time around, she's specifically pointing the blame to young adults, saying that that has been the reason for why we have seen number of cases rise, the positivity rate, even the hospitalizations in some cases as well.

And the White House coronavirus task force actually labeled Iowa as the highest new case rate in the entire country. And with that, they put in place recommendations to institute a statewide mask mandate but also to close bars as well, which the governor says they have done in some cases tied to locations with higher positivity rates but it's been a no on the mask mandate, and she went on to say this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KIM REYNOLDS (R-IA): I still believe it's up to the governors in the various state to make those decisions.

Sometimes they don't have the entire picture of the things that we're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And part of why she has been reluctant to put in place that mandate is because she says they know where these cases are coming from. She is specifically trying to look at college campuses and the locations in and around that. In one county, for example, that has University of Iowa, over 74 percent of the cases there are tied to people ages 19 to 25. Jim?

SCIUTTO: A lot of states running into this. Omar Jimenez, thanks very much.

Well, the state of Ohio is also seeing a surge in new coronavirus infections. The University of Dayton now has one of the largest outbreaks of any college in that state. Joining me now is the mayor of Dayton, Nan Whaley. She is also currently serving as the vice president of the U.S. Conference for Mayors.

I'm sure you're having a lot of conversations, Mayor Whaley, in that conference about how to respond to all this. Welcome to the show, as always.

MAYOR NAN WHALEY (D-DAYTON, OH): Thanks, Jim, good to be on. SCIUTTO: Okay, so let's talk about what's happening where you in Dayton, University of Dayton, 770 cases with an enrollment of just under 9,000. So it's big even when you compare it to a much larger university like Ohio State. Why is that, what are you learning and what were the mistakes made, do you think?

WHALEY: Well, honestly, I think what the University of Dayton did was good in that they tested every single person with the PCR test. And so as we've learned more about this test, we know that you can get a positive for months after you received or had the coronavirus that sits in the back of your nasal passage so we think that is a lot of some of this. But also we recognize that we have young people that are excited to see their friends and maybe a little too excited to see their friends, and that's been a big challenge for the university to get them to really sit in place.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I've heard that about campuses around the country. I wonder, what do you think is the right response here? When you see -- I don't know if outbreak is the right word -- but when you see a surge in cases like that on a campus, I mean, is the right response to say we've got to shut things down and take another look at this, or do you test, isolate, contact trace?

WHALEY: Well, certainly, I think we're looking at it every day. I know I talk to the president of the university every day as well as our public health folks here in Dayton and Montgomery County. I think one of the other issues for the University of Dayton, it's a private institution, and students come from multiple states. And so I don't think we're really interested in, while we have them in a congregate setting right now, sending them back home to other places with coronavirus I think would be not a really smart move.

They are doing all their classes online virtually now, and so, really, the -- the enforcement of making sure they stay in their spot for these next few weeks is going to be really, really important. We plan on sharing that message both with the university as well as the city giving that message to the university as well.

SCIUTTO: Do you think the universities like Dayton are getting their risk/reward balance right here? Because, of course, no one wants any infections, but the fact is it's a virus, it's spreads, right? And the question is how far and how do you control it and so on?

I mean, what do you think the right balancing is with these universities beyond, I mean, as you say, telling students you can't be dumb, right, you can't go to a party like it's 2019, it just does not work?

WHALEY: Yes, do not party like it's 2019, right? I think it's a really difficult situation. I feel for people both in higher ed and K- 12 where each decision has ramifications, because we have choices, frankly. And I think access to rapid testing would make this a lot easier and go a lot better. I think that could be a big difference in the coming months.

But, you know, trying to balance this effort of education with folks on the ground is very difficult.

[10:10:03]

I know the university and its staff have done an amazing job. I think the students are starting to learn the hard way, as I like to call it, about what could happen here. And I hope that we can -- you know, they are starting to plateau at the university. We hope that stays and the students really understand the severity of this issue.

SCIUTTO: For sure. It can't be repeated often enough. Mayor Whaley, thanks so much for coming back on the show.

WHALEY: Good to see you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, as the CDC pushes, states prepare for a coronavirus vaccine before Election Day, what happened if a lot of people don't want to take it because they just don't trust the process? I'm going to speak to Dr. Anthony Fauci about that and other key questions.

Plus, today, Joe Biden heads to Kenosha. Unlike President Trump, he will meet with Jacob Blake's family. And that's not all he has on his agenda.

Plus, the president wants to take a look at the money the federal government gives to cities, such as New York, Portland, Seattle, Washington, D.C., what do they have all in common? We're going to tell you.

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[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: Well, right now Presidential Candidate Joe Biden is now on a plane departing for Kenosha, Wisconsin. He will host a community meeting, part of an effort, his campaign says, to bring Americans together. The former vice president and his wife, Dr. Jill Biden, will also meet with the family of Jacob Blake, the black man shot by police in the back there, a step President Trump did not take on his visit.

CNN's Arlette Saenz and Shimon Prokupecz are following all of this.

Arlette, tell us about this meeting with the community leaders and how if they are welcoming this visit by the former vice president.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Joe Biden is coming here to Kenosha, Wisconsin with a message of healing. He says that he'll be meeting with community leaders, business leaders and some law enforcement during the community meeting. He's also making another local staff and then he is having -- he and his wife, Jill Biden are meeting privately with the family of Jacob Blake, including his father, Jacob Blake Sr.

Biden and his running mate, Kamala Harris, spoke with the Blake family last week over the phone and this meeting presents a contrast with President Trump's approach to his visit to Kenosha. He didn't sit down with the Blake family and he didn't mention Jacob Blake's name while he was visiting here.

And what Biden is trying to do there -- do here in Kenosha is offer himself as a unifying figure. That has been a message, a central message of his campaign from the very beginning, as he has portrayed himself as someone that can unite the country.

And that is something that he is going to try to put into action today, as he has the various stakeholders meeting together with him in a community meeting that he says will offer healing to people.

Now, yesterday, Biden, during a press conference in Wilmington, Delaware, was asked by CNN whether he believed that the officers involved in the shooting of Jacob Blake here in Wisconsin should be charged. He says that the judicial system needs to play out. But at a minimum, there is a minimum need for charges here. So that is Biden's approach right now relating to that issue as he is coming to this community today trying to offer some healing and unity after a week of tension.

SCIUTTO: It's a tough balance to strike. I know you'll be watching it, bring it back to us.

Also Shimon Prokupecz here. So, yesterday, on CNN, the attorney general, Bill Barr, to our colleague, Wolf Blitzer, he made comments about the Jacob Blake case, Shimon, you noted, seemed to attach some judgments to what is an ongoing investigation.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, not only judgments but almost justification, right, Jim. The fact that the attorney general, who, himself, his department, the Department of Justice, is running its own investigation into what happened here. A parallel investigation to civil rights violations is out there already making judgments, saying that Jacob Blake was armed, saying that the police were there to arrest him on a felony, that all of this, almost you can argue.

These are key terms when investigators look whether or not there's justification for a police officer shooting an individual, terms like armed, terms like he was in the middle of committing a felony. Those kinds of key terms signals that authorities certainly at the Department of Justice are thinking that this was a justified shooting. And the problem with that is that this investigation is still very much ongoing on the local level.

As to the armed situation, that probably relates to the knife, obviously, because the investigators here have said, they found the knife in Mr. Blake's vehicle. They found it on the driver's side, on the floor board and they say that Jacob Blake admitted to them that he possessed the knife.

The family denies. They say they have different information. They think that the attorney is mischaracterizing and sort of giving it more worth than it is, and that they argue that the investigation is still very early.

The knife is the key thing. And the key moments in the middle of this shooting, what led up to it, what justifies the officers in firing at Jacob Blake, that is still at the center of this investigation by local authorities. Jim?

SCIUTTO: And a sitting attorney general seem to inject himself in there making a judgment. Shimon Prokupecz, Arlette Saenz, thanks to both of you.

Well, over the past several months, as you've witnessed, nationwide protests have called for an end to systemic racism in policing.

[10:20:01]

Yesterday, though, the attorney general, William Barr, of course, the top law enforcement official in this country, doubted that that exists. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think the narrative that the police are on some, you know, epidemic of shooting unarmed black men is simply a false narrative and also the narrative that that's based on race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, let's not talk about a narrative. Let's talk about facts. According to the Center for Policing Equity, police officers are almost four times more likely to use force on black people than white people. In a 2016 study published in the American Journal of Health says that black men are nearly three times more likely than white men to be killed by police intervention. Those are the numbers, those are the studies.

police have a hard job to do for sure. What we're looking as though is the data and what we're seeing in the behavior across the country. That's what we've seen evidence of in Kenosha, in Minneapolis, in Louisville across the country. We'll continue to follow the facts.

Well, keep your guard up. That is the warning from health experts as we head into the holiday weekend. What do Americans need to do to keep this weekend from leading to another speak in infections? The nation's top infectious disease expert, you might have heard of him, Dr. Anthony Fauci, joins us, next.

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[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

The CDC is taking steps to have a vaccine ready as soon as Election Day, but some health experts remain skeptical. The agency is telling states to prepare for distribution as soon as late October, but the Director of the National Institutes of Health says that is unlikely. So what's the truth? Joining me now, Director at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Dr. Anthony Fauci. Dr. Fauci, thanks so much for joining the program again.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Good to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, listen, I know the news is coming in all the time as folks take a closer look at the various vaccine candidates. You've been consistent for weeks and months saying it's possible as soon as the end of this year. We now have the CEO of Pfizer saying he should have enough data by the end of October.

I'm curious, have you seen any data that has you moving up a likely timeline for a workable vaccine?

FAUCI: These are all guesstimates, Jim. I mean, if you look at the projection of the enrollment and the kinds of things you'll need to get a decision about whether the vaccine is safe and effective, most of us project that that's going to be by November and December, by the end of the year.

Could this be earlier? Sure. So if someone comes out and says, you know, I'm going to shoot for the possibility that I'll get it by October. You can't argue strongly against that. That's unlikely, not impossible. I think most of the people feel it's going to be November/December. But that does not mean that if there are a number of infections within a particular trial that allows you to make a decision sooner rather than later, it is conceivable that you could have it by October, though I don't think that that's likely.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Should folks in light of the fact that the end of October happens to be not coincidentally a few days before an election, and there has been evidence of politics getting in the way of the science here, should folks at home listening right now be concerned that politics are influencing the timeline for a vaccine?

FAUCI: You know, I don't think so, Jim. I mean, the FDA has been very explicit that they are going to make a decision based on the data as it comes in. You know, these trials have these independent data and safety monitoring boards that intermittently look at the data. And they are the ones that are independent individuals. Those data will ultimately become public.

And so, I mean, if there is the kind of thing that people are concerned about, it will become public sooner or later. So I think that we can have some confidence and have faith in what the FDA is saying. They are saying very explicitly that they are going to be making the decision based on the scientific data, and we hope that that's going to be the case.

SCIUTTO: Are you confident that data will make this decision?

FAUCI: I mean, data has always been the thing that has driven me and my colleagues here at the NIH, as well as FDA. The FDA and the CDC, they are data-driven organizations. So I think the people can feel confident that when these data come in, they will be examined appropriately and a decision made.

And, remember, there are outside groups that are going to be involved in this, Jim. And I think people need to understand that. It's not going to be just independently. Of course, they have advisory groups who will look over the data.

SCIUTTO: You yourself, if and when a vaccine is improved, would you have any hesitation to take it yourself or for members of your family?

FAUCI: Oh, not at all, Jim. I mean, I will look at the data and I would assume, and I'm pretty sure that's going to be the case, that a vaccine would not be approved for the American public unless it was indeed both safe and effective. And I keep emphasizing, both safe and effective. If that's the case, Jim, I would not hesitate for a moment to take the vaccine myself and recommend it for my family.

[10:30:02]

SCIUTTO: Okay, another topic. The public has heard mixed and sometimes contradictory messages on key health questions.