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Key Model Projects 410,000 Americans Will Die by January; Gov. Brian Kemp (R-GA) Says, I Don't Believe Statewide Mask Mandates Work; Trump Denies Report that He Denigrated U.S. Service Members. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired September 04, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN NEWSROOM: Good morning. Happy Friday. Thank you for being there with us. I'm Ana Cabrera, and you need to hear this dire prediction and how you can help prevent it.

A key model cited by top experts projects the U.S. death toll with more than double over the next four months. 224,000 more Americans will die from COVID-19. This same model also says Americans can do their part to save lives, predicting over 122,000 lives could be spared if people wear a mask.

So that's why it's so stunning that right after the president told people to wear a mask over this holiday weekend, he mocked his political rival for wearing one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: But did you ever see a man that likes a mask as much as him? And then he makes a speech and he always has it -- not always, but a lot of times has it hanging down because, you know what, it gives him a feeling of security. If I were a psychiatrist, right, no, I would say -- I'd say this guy has got some big issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Meantime, the president's push for vaccines and treatment ahead of the election is becoming more and more clear. Multiple sources tell CNN that he has been ramping up the pressure on health officials to speed up their work before November.

Let's begin with CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Dr. Gupta, always good to have you here with us.

You know, when it comes to this pressure on the FDA coming from the White House apparently to put forth quickly a vaccine and new treatments, what more do we know about that pressure, and could it backfire? DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, we are hearing there's significant pressure, and, you know, that pressure has been there, I think, for several months now. Ana, you'll remember the president even saying back in March with a bunch of pharma executives, let's get this vaccine out within a couple of months. And Dr. Fauci at that time saying let's fact check what is possible here.

I think two things are happening at the same time. It is true that the pace of medical innovation around this vaccine is faster than anything we've ever seen before. I mean, this wasn't even a disease that existed a year ago that we knew about, and now we're talking about a vaccine.

On the other hand, the idea that you'd have enough data from these trials and be able to look at that data and say, yes, this is good to go just seems very unlikely.

There's a strange thing, Ana, which is that you're going to give half the people the vaccine, the other half of the people are going to get the placebo. They're not going to know what they got, right? But these are people who volunteered for the trial. What you're counting on is that the people who didn't get the vaccine, in a strange way, you're counting on them having enough rates of infections so that they can say, yes, the people who got the vaccine, that's actually working. But if the people who are receiving a placebo are also wearing a mask and staying home and stuff like that, they may not have enough infections to actually draw that disparity between the two, and the data wouldn't be there.

So that's what they are sort of running up against. You know, I just think talking to all of our sources, it's just going to be challenging to get meaningful data, you know, for some time to come still.

CABRERA: Well, especially when we know that typical trials take months, if not, years to be completed to have enough data to really know what the results are and be certain of the safety and efficacy.

I have to ask you about this new number that was just like, you know, a train hitting us this morning, 410,000 deaths by January 1st. This is the IHME model from the University of Washington. The White House coronavirus task force has cited this model in the past. You know, when you look back over time, we know that this model has been fairly accurate or even on the conservative side of its projections, as we've been going through this pandemic. Why this huge uptick in projected deaths according to this new model?

GUPTA: Yes, it was like a train hitting us first thing this morning, I can tell you. I read that at about 4:00 this morning. It is a reflection of, you know, what they expect human behavior to be like in this country over the next few months, not only in terms of our reluctance to wear masks but also the increased mobility with schools and things like that.

So when you start to compound all these things -- I mean, this isn't that complicated. I mean, the virus is a little strand of genetic material that just likes to jump from person to person. So it is -- it can't jump that far. It is fairly easily contained by a mask. It doesn't like to be outdoors.

[10:05:01]

So if we just did those things, we could greatly reduce transmission. But what this model is suggesting is that we're not doing it and we're going to continue to not do it.

So, I mean, if you look at that more closely, which I know you did, Ana, they are saying 3,000 people a day possibly dying in December. I mean, those are the rates that we saw in April. So this is exactly the wrong direction to be going in.

CABRERA: And right now, we've been hovering right around 1,000 deaths a day. I do have to ask you about the president's, you know, comments, because when we're hearing in this modeling and the experts are saying it's because people aren't wearing masks, you have the president mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask. We played that sound earlier.

We should note, the president has tweeted a picture of himself wearing a mask. He did call wearing one patriotic at one point, but what are your concerns when the president is mocking somebody for wearing a mask?

GUPTA: My concern is that it's already an awkward cultural thing for this country, for people in this country to start wearing masks. I mean, traveled all over the world. There are country where mask wearing is much more normal, it's just much more part of the culture. Here, it wasn't and there was a lot of concerns about adopting a new sort of tradition, cultural tradition this way.

Mocking it this way makes it hard for everybody. And I can tell you, I live in Georgia, Ana, and if I go out for a run and I carry the mask with me and I wear the mask and be around people, people look at you funny. I mean, it's short of getting teases. I mean, people make it clear that they think you're ridiculous for wearing a mask.

So it's whiplash. On one hand, like you say, there are people who say, yes, you should wear a mask, but on the other hand, openly mock the idea of wearing one to their friends and family or supporters, whatever it may be. So it is whiplash.

And I can tell you where I live probably different from where you live, it's still not the norm to wear masks. It just isn't. You probably walk around where you live and you do see people wearing masks. You go out and about because you guys got into a really tough situation in New York, and I think it really woke people up. Here, it's just -- it's weird. There's this cognitive dissonance still with regard to masks. And I think, unfortunately, when the president does that, it just empowers that dissonance.

CABRERA: I think you're right because when New York had such a tough go initially, and it was so overwhelming of the health care system and so many people were dying and it was the beginning of this pandemic here in the country where it all seemed so shocking, it did send a very strong message to New Yorkers. And I live just north of the city and I go for runs wearing my bandana and pull it up when I run by people. And there's a lot of other people I pass. It's very rare to see people not wearing masks. And when they do, people give those people kind of side-eye and almost shaming them for not wearing masks. So it sounds like the exact opposite of what you experience.

I think so many people, Sanjay, are holding out hope for this vaccine to happen more quickly to be the answer to avoiding deaths, to be the answer to getting kids back in school, to getting the economy really revving up.

Russia has, you know, made this into a big competition internationally and come out with some new data this morning that was published in The Lancet medical journal, so the first time we're really getting a look at the actual data here. And we now know, according to this journal research that the vaccine from Russia has generated an immune response in multiple test subjects for phase one and phase two trials. Researchers in that country are now distributing the vaccine to high- risk groups. What's your read on this?

GUPTA: I think this is worth paying attention to, Ana. You know, a few weeks ago they came out and said they now had a registered vaccine, which is sort of like saying it was approved vaccine. And at that point, you know, without showing any data, just sort of all of a sudden announcing this, that was, you know, something that I think warranted a lot of skepticism.

There is data now, as you point out. We can show some of the data. It's still very limited data. I think in just about 76 people, they have gone through phase one and phase two trial. And they show that in the blood of those people who got the vaccine, they are showing these neutralizing antibodies, the type of antibody that could hopefully neutralize the virus and relatively minor side effects. So this is worth paying attention to.

You know, it's interesting, Ana. We talk a lot about Moderna and Pfizer. Those are sort of the two frontrunners in the United States. I look at the data all the time. Candidly, even for those companies, even though there's a lot of enthusiasm, they still have shown us limited data as well. We need the phase three data no matter the trial.

CABRERA: Do you see, is quickly, if you will, Sanjay, a difference in what the data shows in Russia compared to what we're seeing in the U.S., vaccine data to say whether one or another company is further along or more promising?

GUPTA: I think with this early data, it's hard to tell. The Moderna and Pfizer are further ahead. They had slightly more neutralizing antibody effect.

[10:10:00]

But none of it matters until you can actually compare one population vaccinated against unvaccinated. You've got to know if it works in actual people in the public.

CABRERA: And so you need the bigger number of people. Thank you, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as always. Happy Friday. Hope it's a good weekend for you and your family. Stay well.

GUPTA: you too.

CABRERA: Now to Rosa Flores in Miami Beach. And, Rosa, Florida's beaches will no doubt be a big attraction this holiday weekend. What are state and local health officials saying or just local officials, in general, saying ahead of their big weekend?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Ana, local officials are very concerned because they know that it's human behavior that allows this virus to spread, large groups, people not wearing masks, not social distancing.

Walk with me because I'm on South Beach, one of the most picturesque and iconic beaches in the world. On a normal Labor Day weekend, this place would be packed with people. Right now, there's very few people but they are prepared here locally. You can see that the seating is spaced out more than six feet apart to allow for social distancing.

Here on Miami Beach they have something called, Mask Up, Miami Beach. Masks are required. They are also recommending that people social distance and wash their hands often.

Now, there's a fine. If you don't wear a mask in Miami, you could be fined $50, Ana. But if you look around, you'll see some people are wearing masks, others are not. Ana?

CABRERA: Okay. Rosa Flores, we'll check back. Thank you.

Let's turn to new developments on the west coast now. A man wanted for shooting to death a right wing protester during the clash with racial justice demonstrators in Portland, Oregon, is now dead. The suspect was killed while U.S. Marshals were trying to arrest him in Washington State.

CNN's Lucy Kafanov is joining us from Lacy, Washington. Lucy, what have we learned?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN COORESPONDENT: Well, Ana, we're standing in front of the apartment complex where all of this went down at 7:30 P.M. local time on Thursday. Police have cleared out of the area. When we arrived here, it is still an active crime scene.

48-year-old Michael Reinoehl was allegedly involved in the deadly shooting last Saturday of Aaron Jay Danielson, a supporter of the far right group known as Patriot Prayer. We know that Portland Police issued an arrest warrant for him on Thursday. Because he was across state lines, the U.S. Marshals got involved. They were tasked with locating and apprehending him, a fugitive task force team.

They came down here. They attempted to arrest him peacefully. But then they say, and I'm going to read a quote from their statement, initial reports indicate the suspect produced a firearm threatening the lives of law enforcement officers. The task members responded to the threat and struck the suspect who was pronounced dead at the scene.

Not clear yet whether he actually had a weapon on him, whether he fired that weapon, that is still being investigated by authorities.

The timing of this a little bit unusual, because on Thursday, just as this arrest warrant was issued, Vice News aired an interview with Reinoehl, in which he attempted to take responsibility or at least appeared to take responsibility for the shooting of Danielson. He said it was in self-defense because he and a friend were about to get stabbed. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL REINOEHL, AARON JAY DANIELSON'S SHOOTER: I had no choice. I mean, I had a choice. I could have sat there and watched them kill a friend of mine of color, but I wasn't going to do that, you know. That was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Lots of lawyers suggested I shouldn't even be saying anything but I feel it's important that the world at least gets a little bit of what's really going on because there has been a lot of propaganda put out there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel that it was totally justified?

REINOEHL: Totally justified. Had I not acted, I am confident that my friend and I'm sure I would have been killed because I wasn't going to stand there and let something happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: In the interview, Reinoehl said that he went down to Portland on Saturday night to provide security after seeing the caravan of hundreds of Trump supporters roll through town in vehicles. He described himself as 100 percent anti-fascist but said he was not a member of an organized Antifa group. Ana?

CABRERA: All right. Lucy Kafanov, thank you.

As the federal government looks to slow the spread of the coronavirus this holiday weekend, medical experts from the president's own coronavirus task force are urging states, like Georgia and Missouri, to issue mask mandates. So why won't they comply?

Plus, it's about to get very busy for post offices all around the country, but in North Carolina in particular, because the first mail- in ballots of the general election go out today.

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CABRERA: This morning, Georgia Governor Brian Kemp is again saying he won't mandate masks across that state. That's despite guidance from the White House coronavirus task force that had a mandate is needed to curb the virus' spread.

Let's get to CNN's Nick Valencia in Atlanta, who just spoke with the governor. What is he saying? Why no mask mandate?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Ana, and we know that consistently wearing a mask helps save lives. And here in Georgia, there's a full-court press from Governor Kemp to recommend masks but he's stopping short still of a mask mandate.

You know, after the last two holidays here, Memorial Day and 4th of July, we saw a huge surge in numbers, such a surge that at one week, a point in one week in August, Georgia was the highest in the nation for per capita transmission. And also it remains roughly double the national average for the rate of new infections.

[10:20:01]

So I asked Governor Kemp why he continues to stop short of a mask mandate statewide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Why do you continue to stop short of a mandate?

GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): Well, the report now doesn't call for that. I think -- if you let me finish answering the question, I will. I've been pretty clear. I personally don't believe a statewide mask mandate works. We're having great success with the way that we have had a measured approach on the mask the whole time. Look, that's just not me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: You know, and a huge concern here also is testing capacity after 4th of July, Ana. We saw a huge, you know, people really going out to get tested, that led to delays, sometimes two, even three weeks for people to get their test results.

Georgia Governor Kemp says that there is the capacity, there is the bandwidth to do that now. In fact, he's spent the last two days, he says, talking to the university system here in Georgia. We know that universities are a huge contributions so far in recent weeks for the spread of the coronavirus. Ana?

CABRERA: Nick Valencia in Atlanta, thank you.

The White House coronavirus task force is also urging the state of Missouri to close bars and issue a mandatory mask order there. Officials are raising red flags as Missouri is reporting the nation's tenth highest positivity rate going into the Labor Day weekend.

Joining us to discuss is the Heidi Lucas, the State Director of Missouri's Nurses Association, which asked the governor to also implement a statewide mask order. This was back in July. Thank you, Heidi, for being here with us.

Why hasn't the governor issued a statewide mask mandate?

HEIDI LUCAS, STATE DIRECTOR, MISSOURI NURSES ASSOCIATION: Good morning, thanks for having me. And, yes, that has been a big issue here in the state of Missouri. Our organization and the Missouri State Medical Association urged Governor Parson way back in July to implement that statewide masking order for indoor spaces and crowded outdoor spaces where social distancing is difficult.

But Missouri -- you know, a joke in Missouri is we're the Show-Me State, but we're really -- what would be a better name for us is the Make-Me State. And there was some concern that in communities that were not having much spread at the time, that by ordering a mask mandate too early, that individuals wouldn't wear them, they wouldn't abide to it, they wouldn't take it seriously.

And so what we're seeing now though is that there is still no mask mandate, in these smaller communities, where the numbers are rising, and we're getting pockets of infections in our more rural communities, as well where people are not wearing masks.

CABRERA: Let me read you a response of sorts from the Missouri governor, Mike Parson. He is one of five governors from the Midwest who signed on to a Washington Post op-ed in May defending about how they were going about the pandemic. Writing, here in the country's heartland, decisions have been made based on sound medical and social science positioning our states to thrive individually as our economies reopen. What's your reaction to that?

LUCA: Yes. So that was back in May. We are now in the beginning of September. And I understand the concern, you know. I have friends who have small businesses who were affected during the shutdown. But science is showing that wearing a mask is slowing the spread.

So if people are wearing masks out in public, if people are wearing masks when they go into a restaurant and restaurants are properly setting up their tables for good social distancing between the customers, if businesses begin making people wear a mask when they come into the stores, our state can get back to normal. Something that's a minor inconvenience could potentially slow the spread and help save lives, not only of citizens but of our health care professionals who are working day in and day out in our hospitals caring for those who have COVID-19.

CABRERA: Did you hear back when the governor when you wrote this letter urging for the mask mandate? And as we mentioned, the coronavirus task force has also suggested to the state, issue a mask mandate, close the bars and no action has been taken. Has the governor responded to you at all?

LUCAS: The governor has not responded to us. When our organization and the Missouri State Medical Association earlier had asked for a shutdown of the state, to close the state down, the governor did listen to us then. And we implore him to listen to the health care workers in the state of Missouri and order a statewide mask mandate. Now is the time to do that in order to save lives. CABRERA: Heidi Lucas, we'll have to stay in touch and see where things go. Sending the very best for to everybody there in Missouri, I'm praying for everybody's safety. Thank you for joining us this morning.

LUCAS: Thank you for having me.

CABRERA: The election is less than two months away now, and today, the first mail-in ballot, hundreds of thousands of them, are going out.

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[10:25:00]

CABRERA: President Trump is angrily denying a blistering report in The Atlantic that he called dead American soldiers, quote, losers and suckers during a visit to France in 2018.

Here is part of it. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, why should I go to that cemetery?

[10:25:03]

It's filled with losers.

In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800.