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Sheriff Richard Jones, of Butler County, Ohio, Discusses Protests, Violence & And He Warns, "You Shoot at Police, You Should At Least Expect Us to Shoot Back"; Trump, Russian Efforts to Undermine Election Are Nearly Identical; Biden Responds to Trump Mocking Him for Wearing a Mask; New CNN Documentary on Biden/Trump Presidential Fight & A Moment Where Biden Explains Impact of Son Beau's Death. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired September 04, 2020 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:12]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The warning is unequivocal. Quote, "you shoot at police, you should at least expect us to shoot back."
That's the statement coming from the sheriff of Butler County, Ohio, Sheriff Richard Jones. And he's joining me now to talk about this.
Sheriff, thanks for being with us.
What prompted you to put this message out there?
RICHARD JONES, SHERIFF, BUTLER COUNTY, OHIO, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Basically, we had a shooting Monday, an officer-involved shooting. We were chasing a suspect that was wanted in connection with a homicide. He had warrants for his arrest.
He made the comments he was going to kill the police. He's going to have a shootout.
The chase lasted probably 21 minutes through several jurisdictions. Finally, he ran over -- we put stop sticks out. Stop sticks are sticks with spikes in them that the car runs over and air goes out of tires.
He ran into someone's yard and then he started shooting at the police. We returned fire. He was shot probably -- he had 11 holes inside of him and he's still alive. It appears he's going to live.
A police officer was shot several times. The dog was almost shot.
And it's come to a point here in the United States that that's all that we see is police officers under attack. It started in New York City a couple of year ago when they started pouring buckets of water on them. They set them up.
The disrespect of the police, the police shootings and the call for defunding the police. We don't have enough police. We feel that it's time for the police chiefs and the sheriffs
throughout the country to stand up -- and stand up and, for safety and security of our country, and for your communities. And most of them are afraid to stand up.
So, I felt it was time for me to stand up and say, if you shoot at the police, I want to make sure --
KEILAR: Oh, no. I think we're having technical difficulties. Let's see if we can unfreeze this.
If this working? Can we get his signal back up?
All right. We lost him. That force up.
We're going to bring you back, Sheriff Jones, in a moment. I have some questions for him.
Next, we have new evidence that details -- new details about how the Russians are interfering in the 2020 election. And their attacks bear a striking resemblance to what we're hearing from President Trump.
And if we can go back now to the sheriff, we've been able to reestablish that signal.
Sheriff, sorry about that. I don't know whose end that was on but I'm glad we could get you back to talk about this.
Here's my question for you. You talk about this incident precipitating this warning you're putting out there. Your department is citing clashes between protesters and law enforcement. The incident you're talking about didn't have anything to do with protesters.
So why are these --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Basically, it has. The current trend in the country and the atmosphere that's being created, by the media and by politicians on both sides, makes people not want to stop, not adhere to the police.
It's all about that. And it's come to a head at this point. The shooting we had, we feel that people have just --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: You're blaming protesters -- you're blaming protesters for that shooting?
JONES: No. You are. I'm not. That's not what I said.
I said it's the current atmosphere that people, such as yourself, has created with the police, the no respect for the police, not stopping for the police, not doing what the police say.
People throwing bricks at the police. There's no respect for law and order. And that's what you have is total chaos. That's what I've said.
And it's time for the police chiefs and the sheriffs throughout the country to stand up and say that.
And --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Let's talk about creating an atmosphere. I strongly disagree with you that we're doing anything to create that atmosphere.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: I think most -- Sheriff, I think a lot of level-headed Americans would look at your statement and say you shoot at the police, don't be surprised if the police shoots back.
But are you doing anything to calm tensions? It doesn't seem like you're trying to bring the temperature down. This seems like you're trying to bring it up.
JONES: No. My job is to create calm. But my job is also to protect the police, the people that work for me, the police throughout the country, to stand up for them. Stop abusing the police.
You can't go to these disturbances and throw bricks at the police. You can't come at them with sticks. You can't do these things to the police. And you've got to stop.
[14:35:00]
And I believe that the media does more to create this atmosphere than anyone else. The media and the politicians. And they need to come together and they need to stop it and they need to ask for calm.
We need the police. You can't call social workers out for these riots that are happening in Portland, New York City, California, that happens in the big cities.
What happens there travels. And it will eventually be all over the country if we don't stand up and --
KEILAR: Well, let me --
JONES: -- and don't try to get law and order.
KEILAR: Let me ask you, as you're aware, there are a lot of Americans upset about what they've been seeing in the case of how some police officers, but we're seeing a lot of it, are behaving.
And I would, for instance, point you to Jacob Blake, who was shot in the back seven times. Do you think that was out of line?
JONES: I wasn't there. I've seen what the news has said. I'm --
(CROSSTALK) KEILAR: There's a video of it, sir. Do you think it was out of line? You're a sheriff. You've seen the video. Was it out of line?
JONES: I'm going to wait and see what the investigation determines --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Wait and see for what? There's a video.
JONES: Well, it you'll let me finish. Just because there's videos, you guys have shown videos before that ends up there's other videos. There's a lot of videos --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Seven times shot in the back.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Seven times shot in the back.
JONES: And I'm going it wait and see what the evidence provides. Period. That's it.
KEILAR: Do you understand why people might be angry? Do you understand why protesters maybe have a reason to be in the streets and concerned?
JONES: No, I don't understand why they would burn buildings. Why they would hurt people, why they could assault people --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: That's not what I asked. Do you --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: That's not what I'm asking.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: No, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: There are people who have been rioting. There are people who have been rioting.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: You're talking about people looting and rioting. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: There are also people protesting peacefully.
(CROSSTALK) KEILAR: Do you distinguish between the two?
JONES: All those things. Yes, that's not a protest. That's not a peaceful protest.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Sheriff, there have been peaceful protests. Do you disagree with that?
JONES: No. Hell, I've protested myself. But I don't burn buildings down and shoot people and assault people and innocent people. Protest is a great thing. That's what --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Have you had protests in your county?
JONES: Yes, we have.
KEILAR: And have you had riots or looting in your county?
JONES: No. Not since 1960. We're pretty fortunate, aren't we?
KEILAR: So, what is your worry here as you with warning against that? I guess you feel like it's coming to your county.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: So, if you think that's coming to your county, and watching what is happening in other places, we've seen armed militias that are patrolling protests and have been confronting protesters.
Do you agree with armed militias doing that?
JONES: Absolutely. I don't agree with people being at protests with guns on either side, period. But I don't get to make that decision.
Guns at any protest, bad things can happen. And has happened.
I don't believe you should come to protests with bats and shields and sticks with spikes on them. I don't believe you should bring flame throwers, homemade.
I don't think you should bring frozen water bottles on either side, period. That doesn't make for a good mix, period. And I would not encourage that.
But I do say this is coming to other cities and will come. It starts in these other big cities and it travels around.
All you got to do is look at history. In the '60s, it started out the same thing and it travels. And it will come to your city if we don't stand up and get together and get this resolved. Period.
KEILAR: But it hasn't come to yours? JONES: We've had protests her but they've been peaceful protests, so
far.
KEILAR: Yes, but there's -- so that's right.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: So what you're warning against, violence, you actually haven't seen but you're putting out a statement that is amping up the temperature .
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: I guess I don't understand that because you're warning --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: My job -- hey, my job is to help you understand and help your viewers understand.
And I'm allowed to have an opinion. I'm a sheriff of one of the eighth-largest counties of 88 in Ohio. And my opinion, as the lead law enforcement person in this county, is it needs to stop.
You don't need to disrespect the police. We have disrespect of the police here. We have it often. And it's starting to get a little bit out of control. And it does travel. These people travel from place to place.
And I'm allowed to speak up and say what I think.
KEILAR: Yes.
JONES: I'm somewhat controversial because I say what I think. And I go on your channel.
KEILAR: But, Sheriff --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: -- and I like going on the channel and talking with you.
[14:40:07]
KEILAR: That's not what you said. You said, you shoot at the police, expect us to shoot back.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: No protesters are shooting at you. There are no protesters shooting at you.
JONES: No, they're not shooting at me. But they are shooting at the police in other places. And they've actually killed the police. They threw rocks at the police. And the police are allowed to defend themselves. Other than in the big city. And they have to take it. Their leadership
says don't go in. Let them set things on fire. Let them take things because they may not have those things and maybe they need to take them because they don't have them. So, let them take them, let them burn places down, destroy live said and buildings.
For what purpose? Maybe you can answer that. What purpose is there to --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Look, I'm not defending looters or rioters, Sheriff. But I will defend protesters and say you're talking about ruining lives.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Look at Jacob Blake's life. Look at his family's lives. Look at George Floyd's life and his family's lives.
JONES: Yes, I do. I look at all of those things. I look at the police officer who was killed in Cleveland today who was shot to death. I look at that often. I see it all the time.
Police officers are killed in America. Tensions are high and attitudes are toward the police are off the mark. And it should not be.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: And I warn you against fanning tensions.
Sheriff Richard Jones, thank you for coming on --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- to talk with us.
JONES: Thank you very much.
KEILAR: Thank you.
Next, Joe Biden responding to the president mocking him for wearing a mask.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:42]
KEILAR: It's apparent now, more than ever, that it's not just foreign adversaries like Russia that are actively working to undermine the election. It's also the president of the United States. And the strategies are almost identical.
What I'm going to read are quotes from two separate DHS memos unveiled this week that describe in detail how the Russians and others are interfering in the election. And after each quote, then you're going to hear from the president himself. The first, an overall take away is, quote, "Russia likely to continue
to seek to undermine faith in U.S. electoral process."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged.
It will end up being a rigged election or they'll never come out with an outcome.
I think it's going to be the greatest fraud ever. I think it's going to be a rigged election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: The memo lists specific examples including, quote, "We assess Russia is likely going to continue to amplify criticisms of vote by mail and shifting voting processes amid the COVID-19 pandemic to undermine public trust in the electoral process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This universal mail-in is a very dangerous thing. It's fraught with fraud and every other thing that can happen.
Ballots are lost. There's fraud. There's theft.
Mail-in voting is going to rig the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: The memo goes into more detail on mail-in voting. Quote, "Russian state media and proxy Web sites amid August 2020 criticized the integrity of expanded and universal vote-by-mail, claiming ineligible voters could receive ballots due to out-of-date voter rolls."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You get thousands of people in a living room signing ballots all over the place.
In California, the governor sent, I hear, or is sending millions of ballots all over the state, millions, to anybody. People that aren't citizens, illegals. Anybody that walks in California is going to get a ballot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: And the DHS memo discussing how states are the target, quote, "These Russian outlets also claimed that state election officials and policy makers leveraged the COVID-19 pandemic to justify politically expedient decisions made on holding primary elections and implementing new voting processes and vote-by-mail programs allegedly designed to benefit specific candidates and influence election outcomes." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now, all of a sudden, New Jersey is going to be hit with millions of ballots to be sent out. They didn't know anything about this.
And if you look at some of the things they say, like, take the state of Nevada, take that little scam that's going on over there with the clubhouse politician governor.
I'll tell you who's meddling in our elections. The Democrats are meddling by wanting and insisting on sending mail-in ballots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: But the misinformation extends beyond the U.S. Quote, "We assess that Russian-state-media proxies and Russian-controlled social media trolls are likely to promote allegations of corruption, system failure and foreign maligned interference" -- I want to underscore there foreign interference - "to sow distrust in election outcomes."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Mail-in ballots, you're going to have foreign countries -- you talk about foreign countries. They're going to be printing their own ballots.
By the way, you like to talk about Russia and China and other places. They'll be able to forge ballots. They'll forge them. They'll do whatever they have to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Just a reminder that senior U.S. intelligence officials tasked with protecting the 2020 election, recently said there's no evidence foreign countries are interfering with the mail-in-voting process in the country.
Another part of the DHS memo reads, quote, "We assess Russian-maligned influence actors are likely to continue denigrating presidential candidates through allegations of poor mental or physical health to influence the outcome of the 2020 elections."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The man can't speak and he's going to be your president.
I say he's not competent to be president. To be president, you have to be sharp and tough and so many other things. He doesn't even come out of his basement.
Guy doesn't know he's alive.
(LAUGHTER)
[14:50:01] TRUMP: He's going to be out in 10 days! He's going to start in 10 days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Speaking of Democrats, quote, "In the Iowa caucuses in February, Russian state proxy media and Web sites claimed that the contest was fixed in favor of establishment candidates."
They go on, quote, "These outlets continued this narrative in March 2020, claiming that the Democratic Party made a corrupt backroom deal to orchestrate the exit of establishment candidates to consolidate the vote behind former Vice President Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think Bernie is looking more and more like he'll be the nominee. Unless they cheat him out of it.
I think it is rigged against Bernie but maybe he'll pull it through. It was rigged against me four years ago and I pulled it through.
I think it's rigged against Bernie.
Mayor Pete, he quit out last night. And then I hear -- and then I hear --
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: Then I hear a Senator from a state we're going to win. We're going to win that state. But she dropped out. Sounds like they made a deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: It is worth noting over the last 48 hours, two of the president's cabinet members also downplayed the threat from Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Of those three countries the Intelligence Community has pointed to, Russia, China and Iran, which is the most assertive, the most aggressive in this area?
WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I believe it's China.
BLITZER: It's what?
BARR: China.
BLITZER: China more than Russia right now?
BARR: Yes.
BLITZER: Why do you say that?
BARR: Because I've seen the intelligence. That's what I've concluded.
BLITZER: What are they trying to do?
BARR: Well, I'm not going to discuss that.
MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: The greatest threat to the United States of America from a foreign power emanates from the Chinese Communist Party. It's not, frankly, a close call.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: China, while a threat, is not actively interfering in the U.S. election. That's according to the Intel Community.
Russia, on the other hand, is an active ongoing threat. And intelligence shows that. They're interfering right now in the election. And experts say those officials are delinquent and political in ignoring the threat.
Next, President Trump mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask. Hear his response.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:54:56]
KEILAR: The United States is leading the world in coronavirus cases and deaths. And the president is using the bully pulpit to mock his challenger, Joe Biden, for doing something that scientists say we all should be doing, wearing a mask.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But do you ever see a man that likes a mask as much as him?
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: And then he makes a speech and he always, not always, but he has it hanging down.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Because, you know what, it gives him a feeling of security. If I were a psychiatrist --
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Right?
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: No, I'd say --
(APPLAUSE) TRUMP: I'd say this guy has got some big issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: A key monologue today estimates over 122,000 lives could be saved by the end of the year if people could wear a mask.
Here is how Biden responds to the president's criticism?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I listen to scientists. This is not a game. Life and death. Life and death.
It is hard to respond to something so idiotic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Biden's and Trump's fight for the White House is the focus of a new documentary from CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.
And in one revealing moment, Biden explains the impact of the death of his son, Beau, in 2015.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): While the vice president tried help his son, the son tried to help his father.
BIDEN: I absolutely believe, and I'll believe it until the day that I die, the thing Beau was most afraid of was not dying. What he was most afraid of was the impact it would have on his dad. That is would really take his dad out.
BORGER (on camera): Did he tell you that?
BIDEN: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. All of the time.
BORGER (voice-over): It is something the vice president wrote about in 2017 in his book, "Promise Me, Dad."
BIDEN: Beau just made me promise. This was just before he died. He said, dad you have to promise me you're going to be OK. I said, Beau. He said, dad, look at me, look me in the eye, dad. Give me your word as a Biden, dad, you're going to be OK.
BORGER (on camera): Are you OK?
BIDEN: I am. Because it is still emotional but I knew what he meant. He was worried that I would walk away from everything I worked in my whole life, the things I cared about.
He knew I would take care of the family. He never worried about that. But he didn't want me walking away.
UNIDENTIFIED SERVICEMEMBER: Forward march. BORGER (voice-over): Beau Biden died on May 30th, 2015. He was 46 years old.
(on camera): Is it true you keep Beau's rosary with had you?
BIDEN: Got it in my pocket.
BORGER: All of the time?
BIDEN: I keep it all of the time. He had it when he passed away. It was more gold. You could see it's worn.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: I want to bring in Gloria Borger.
Gloria, I really enjoy your work when you do these documentaries. I think that so much comes from them. I'm looking forward to this one.
Tell us what to expect?
BORGER: Well, Joe Biden has been in politics almost five decades. And he started out as this kind of young politician with swagger, in 1972, just on the city council a couple of years and decided to run for the Senate at the age of 29.
He won his seat before he could sit in the Senate. And then, finally turned 30, got into the Senate. And now his career has come full circle. And if elected, he could be the oldest man ever to take the oath.
So, it is a long life. And a long career. And it has had its ups and downs.
So we go through not only his life in politics in Delaware, but also when he was chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and the Robert Bork and the Clarence Thomas hearings, his vice presidency with Barack Obama.
And, of course, the tragedies when he was young that helped shape his life when he lost his wife and daughter just after he was elected to the Senate.
And then, later in life, of course, when Beau Biden died. And those are book ends that have really shaped his life.
And he never expected to run, Bri, this time. But he decided, after he saw Charlottesville, and decided he had to throw his hat in the ring one more time.
KEILAR: That really aggravated him.
BORGER: Oh, yes.
KEILAR: He was aggravated today, too. And you could see how much it creates a fire in his belly. BORGER: And, Bri, you know that Beau served. And when you heard him
talk about Beau Biden and his service, that is what brought his anger out today. Because as he said, his son was not a sucker and his son was not a loser.
KEILAR: Yes. Gloria, thank you so much.
(CROSSTALK)
[15:00:00]
KEILAR: I can't wait to see this.
BORGER: Thank you.
KEILAR: Back-to-back documentary events. This will start Monday night at 8:00 Eastern only here on CNN.
And our special coverage will continue now with my pal, Brooke Baldwin.
