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Pac-12 Testing Breakthrough?; Report: Trump Called Killed U.S. Soldiers 'Losers'; Model Projects 410,000 U.S. COVID-19 Deaths By January. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 04, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: This will start Monday night at 8:00 Eastern, only here on CNN.

And our special coverage will continue now with my pal Brooke Baldwin.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Brianna, thank you so much.

Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN on this Friday. Thank you for being here.

We begin this hour with a stunning new prediction about where the country could be heading in the coronavirus pandemic. An influential model used by the White House is now predicting that COVID will kill 410,000 Americans by January 1.

Just let that number sink, and you see it on your screen, 410,000. That is more than the entire population of Tulsa, Oklahoma; or Tampa, Florida. It also means that the death toll would more than double from where we currently are.

Researchers behind the model say less vigilance from the public, especially the declining use of mask-wearing, is a key reason for these high your projections.

So, where are we now? More than 1,000 Americans died yesterday of COVID, the third straight day of 1,000 deaths or more. The U.S. is still averaging about 40,000 new cases a day. That's a number that Dr. Anthony Fauci calls unacceptably high going into the fall, and, of course, in a flu season.

And speaking today from the Oval Office, President Trump says that he is optimistic a vaccine is -- quote -- "going to be announced very soon."

This is all happening is multiple sources tell CNN that the president is ramping up pressure on the FDA to deliver some good news about a coronavirus vaccine before Election Day.

So, that said, let's start with Kaitlan Collins over at the White House.

And, Kaitlan what are you hearing about the pressure the president's putting on these federal officials over a vaccine?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, we know he wants one. We know he wants one sooner, rather than later. And before Election Day is when the president is looking at.

And that means the FDA is now in the president's crosshairs, because you have seen it shift throughout this pandemic what the president has been focusing on. Right now, it's the FDA and this vaccine. And that means the FDA commissioner is now the one in the hot seat, because there are a lot of questions about the approval process for a vaccine, and whether or not they would grant some kind of emergency use authorization, like we have seen them do with hydroxychloroquine, something the president pushed for, and convalescent plasma, something the president also pushed for.

Now, with hydroxychloroquine, of course, it had to be rescinded by the FDA later on. Plasma, it's still out, though we did see the commissioner apologize for how he framed that announcement.

And so now the question comes down to whether or not we could see one with a vaccine. It's very clear that the president wants one. And he has accused people at the FDA of deliberately delaying progress because they -- in the president's mind, he thinks they want to hurt his chances of being reelected.

And even look at how the president is speaking about this publicly today and last night about what he wants this timeline to look like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think the vaccines are going to be announced very soon. And I think you're going to see great companies announcing these vaccines. I spoke with Pfizer today.

It will be delivered before -- in my opinion, before the end of the year, but it really might even be delivered before the end of October. How do you like that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Now, Dr. Hahn, who leads the FDA, has said time and time again he is making these decisions based on data, not on politics.

But sources have described the environment of what it's like to have this FDA commissioner, Brooke, coming into the White House, meeting with the president. And there is some concern about -- among other medical experts inside this administration that he could bend to the political will of the president, what you're seeing the president say publicly about this timeline here.

And so really, basically, what everyone is going to be watching over the next several weeks, as we get closer to Election Day, are the decisions that the FDA commissioner is making and what he's making them based on.

BALDWIN: Right, so much of this politics, public health.

Kaitlan, thank you for that.

I want to go back to that dire prediction from the IHME and bring in Dr. Celine Gounder. She's a former assistant commissioner of health in New York City. She is also a CNN medical analyst.

Dr. Gounder, good to have you back.

On this model, I know it's one of the more aggressive ones out there just in terms of projections. But, again, it predicts the death rate could reach nearly 3,000 a day a day, a day, by December. And I know the researchers say that's partly because of the -- quote, unquote -- "declining vigilance" of the public, specifically folks not wearing face coverings.

What do you make of those numbers?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think the important thing to remember, Brooke, is that no model is perfect. It's sort of like trying to play chess against a chess grandmaster. How many moves ahead can you predict? And things will change in the interim?

So I think where models are really helpful in helping us figure out, how much do certain interventions impact transmission and deaths? And, clearly, the IHME model does show that, if you were to have 95 percent of the population wearing masks, as opposed to the 50 or so percent that are wearing them now, you could half the death rate between now and December.

[15:05:07]

So, I think the important message here is, we really all need to go back to wearing masks.

BALDWIN: Especially as we go into the fall and into the flu season. As we have talked, it'll just be this double whammy.

The other thing from the model, Dr. Gounder, it also claims that the controversial concept of herd immunity is pursued -- if it is pursued -- that's allowing everyone who relatively healthy to get sick, in the hopes of boosting immunity -- and no further government intervention is taken from now through the end of the year, they're saying that the death toll could increase to 620,000.

Does that put this notion of herd immunity, at least here in the U.S., to rest?

GOUNDER: I certainly hope it does.

Basically, what they're saying is, let's the virus run wildfire throughout the population, and come what may, and, hopefully, at the end of the day, we will have enough immunity that we won't have further spread. Well, at that point, you have already had millions of deaths from the disease. Is that really -- is that "cure" -- quote, unquote -- really worth the cost? I would argue no.

BALDWIN: The thing that you have been arguing and so many scientists, doctors, we have got to wear our face coverings, we have got to wear the masks. That's obviously one of the really clear points from this IHME report.

But President Trump, Dr. Gounder, President Trump is not interested in promoting mask wearing. Just listen to what he said yesterday when he was talking about Joe Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But did you ever see a man that likes a mask as much as him?

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: And then he makes his speech and he always has it, not always, but a lot of times, he has it hanging down, because, you know what, it gives him a feeling of security.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: If I were psychiatrist right now, I'd -- no, I'd say -- I'd say this guy's got some big issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Again, it's what the president's saying, but it's also you hear the reaction in the crowd, the laughter and the cheering, to your point about how not enough people in this country believe in mask wearing or listening to the scientists.

But when you heard the president of the United States say that, what did you think?

GOUNDER: I think, to me, anybody who would let vanity get in the way of their health and protecting the health of their family and friends and community, that is weakness, that kind of vanity.

And that has me really concerned. I think we all need to be stepping up. And maybe it's a little bit inconvenient or uncomfortable to wear a mask, but that is the strong thing to do on behalf of our nation right now.

BALDWIN: Last quick question.

On the vaccine, we know the president really would like to have one by Election Day. He was mentioning hoping in October. He's cranked up the pressure on his administration health officials.

Listen, everyone wants this and they want it fast. But how will we know it's safe?

GOUNDER: We have to wait until phase three trials are completed, showing this vaccine is safe and effective.

And, look, I'm going to be in that number one priority group lining up for a vaccine, but I will not be rolling up my sleeve to get it, even if I couldn't can, if it's not proven safe and effective.

BALDWIN: Dr. Gounder, thank you so much.

And speaking of vaccines, according to the "Lancet" medical journal, Russia's vaccine generated an immune response in multiple test subjects. And while this data appears to be promising, it is important to note that the sample size was small and the Russian vaccine has not been put through, to Dr. Gounder's point, phase three trials yet.

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is with me now.

And, Elizabeth, how significant is this, you think?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, it's just as significant as when Moderna or Pfizer or AstraZeneca came out with similar data in the past months.

This is phase one and phase two data. It is very early. It's encouraging, and the vaccine might work. It might also fail. We don't know. As you said, needs to go through those phase three trials with tens of thousands of people. And they said that's what they're starting now.

Let's take a look at what they published in the "Lancet" today. The Russian vaccine company Gamaleya said they had 76 study subjects. All developed neutralizing antibodies. Those are antibodies that theoretically -- and I stress the word theoretically -- should fight off the virus that causes COVID-19.

Half of them got a fever. And that fever -- usually, in these trials, the fever is short-lived, it is unpleasant for a little while, but it's still not a fun thing. I sort of wonder how will people take it when they find out that people getting this vaccine, half of them are getting sick? Will it make them scared? We will have to wait and see.

But, again, encouraging results, but it doesn't mean that the vaccine works.

BALDWIN: Elizabeth, thank you very much, Elizabeth Cohen in Atlanta.

COHEN: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Coming up: the disturbing new report where, reportedly, President Trump called fallen U.S. soldiers -- and I'm quoting -- "losers and suckers."

Let's talk about that with a military veteran.

And the new testing breakthrough that could be a game-changer for college sports.

And Joe Biden today unleashes on President Trump, everything from his pandemic response to his reported insults of U.S. troops. Don't miss that.

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You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin,

President Trump, who often publicly claims that he supports U.S. men and women in uniform, is reportedly calling some of those same troops losers and suckers behind their backs.

This is just one of the stunning allegations of this new piece of journalism in "The Atlantic." The article recounts, among other things, a canceled 2018 trip to an American cemetery near Paris. At the time, President Trump claimed it was due to rain.

But four anonymous sources with reported firsthand knowledge of this discussion tell "Atlantic" editor in chief Jeffrey Goldberg that the real reason was much different -- quote -- "In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said: "Why should I go to that cemetery? It's filled with losers. In a separate conversation that same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 Marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as suckers for getting killed."

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Earlier today, the president forcefully denied the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: No, it was a fake story written by a magazine that was probably not going to be around much longer.

But it was a totally fake story. And that was confirmed by many people who were actually there. It was a terrible thing that somebody could say the kind of things, and especially to me, because I have done more for the military than almost anybody else.

No, there's nobody that considers the military, and especially people that have given their lives in the military -- to me, they're heroes. To me, they heroes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Also, moments ago, Trump's 2020 rival, former Vice President Joe Biden, whose late son Beau was a veteran of the Iraq War, blasted the president, saying the comments prove he is not fit to be commander in chief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me be real clear. When my son was an assistant U.S. attorney, and he volunteered to go

to Kosovo while the war was going on, as a civilian, he wasn't a sucker. When my son volunteered and joined the United States military, as the attorney general, and went to Iraq for a year, won the Bronze Star and other commendations, he wasn't a sucker.

The service men and women he served with, particularly those who did not come home, were not losers.

If these statements are true, the president should humbly apologize to every Gold Star mother and father and every Blue Star family that he's denigrated and insulted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We should note that CNN has not independently confirmed the report.

David Lapan is a V.P. of communications for the Bipartisan Policy Center. And he served in the United States Marine Corps with retired General John Kelly, the president's former chief of staff.

So, welcome, David. And thank you so much for your service.

Good to have you on.

DAVID LAPAN, BIPARTISAN POLICY CENTER: Thank you, Brooke. Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: I should point out also this article details an exchange between Trump and Kelly. And we will get to that in just a moment.

But, first, just as a veteran, what was your reaction when you read this?

LAPAN: My first reaction, and the one that I still have today, is disgust that anyone would make comments like that, much less the commander in chief of the armed forces.

But, at the same time, I wasn't particularly surprised by them, because this is consistent with things the president has said and done throughout his tenure.

BALDWIN: When you read the piece in the article where Jeffrey Goldberg details this trip to Arlington with President Trump and General Kelly -- and this is Memorial Day, 2017. This is where they visited Section 60.

This is the section of Arlington where General Kelly's son Robert is buried. And so sources told "The Atlantic" that the president said to Kelly as they were there standing over his son's grave, the quote from the president was: "I don't get it. What was in it for them?"

General Kelly didn't comment for the article. My question to you, David, is, did he ever mentioned this incident to you or did he even ever speak about the president's comments on the military? LAPAN: He didn't around me. Again, I don't know if he's spoken to

others.

I was serving as general -- or Secretary Kelly at that point in Memorial Day, 2017, as his spokesperson at the Department of Homeland Security, but I wasn't with him that day at Arlington National Cemetery. So I don't have direct knowledge of that exchange.

But, again, it's not inconsistent from what we have heard the president say and do in the past.

BALDWIN: Has he ever spoken to you just in general about the president's views on our nation's military?

LAPAN: No, he hasn't. General Kelly or Secretary Kelly has not.

BALDWIN: Jeffrey Goldberg was on CNN this morning talking about this article and that his sources prefer to stay off the record because -- quote -- "They don't want to be inundated with angry tweets, and all the rest."

We are two months out from an election, and Goldberg described some of the sources as those with firsthand knowledge.

And, David, do these people owe it to the nation, these people who are sourced in this piece, do they owe it to the nation and their fellow service members to go public with something as important as this?

LAPAN: I think it is important for them to do it, but every individual has to make that personal choice of where that line is for them.

[15:20:07]

The fact that they have spoken out, even anonymously, is still important. I have no reason to distrust what Jeff Goldberg has reported here.

And there are several sources. It would be helpful, again, if individuals came out, but I can understand, as vindictive as the president has been in the past, for them to be cautious about putting their name on things and getting themselves dragged through the mud.

BALDWIN: Thinking ahead to this election -- and you think back to the lead-up of 2016 -- then candidate Trump said that the late John McCain wasn't a war hero, remember, because he said he was captured.

And he mocked the grieving parents of Army officer and Bronze Star and Purple Heart recipient Humayun Khan, and he still won big with Republicans, a party that has traditionally billed itself as a staunch defender of the nation's troops.

So, even if President Trump Warren to apologize, which is what Biden is calling for, would it fall on deaf ears with the Trump base?

LAPAN: It's hard to say, Brooke, because I think, as you said, if you go back to candidate Trump and some of the things that he said -- and, as I mentioned before, he's -- the president has done that over and over again, from interfering in the Gallagher case, pardoning war criminals, leaving our allies the Kurds in Syria, sending U.S. military troops to the border, any number of things that over time have added up.

So, one or two things that he may have done or said four years ago, or three-and-a-half years ago, have only been added upon. So people now have to consider that entire track record. And, again, it's consistent. It's not as if there's a one-off, that he made one offhand remark. It's been consistent over time.

And so I think that will damage him in the eyes of veterans and those in the military, certainly not everyone, but enough.

BALDWIN: David Lapan, thank you, sir.

LAPAN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up: One of the biggest conferences in college sports just reached a testing breakthrough that could save the football season. We have those new details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:10]

BALDWIN: The situation college on campuses seems to be going from bad to worse, with all these COVID cases on the rise.

There are now more than 27,000 infections at colleges and universities in at least 40 states. As officials scramble to mitigate the outbreak among students and staff, schools with athletes and sports leagues are under even greater pressure to develop plans to restart the seasons safely.

Today, though, there is some renewed hope for the Pac-12 fall football season. They just announced this partnership with Quidel Corporation, a manufacturer of FDA-approved rapid tests, to provide daily tests for these athletes, a move that could mean a return to football sooner than expected.

So, joining me now, Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott, and president and CEO of Quidel Corporation Douglas Bryant.

So, gentlemen, welcome to both of you.

DOUGLAS BRYANT, PRESIDENT AND CEO, Quidel CORPORATION: Thanks, Brooke.

LARRY SCOTT, COMMISSIONER, PAC-12 CONFERENCE: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Larry, let me start with you, because I read a piece where you said this is -- quote -- "simply game-changing."

How do you mean? And when do you think Pac-12 football can return? SCOTT: Yes, well, it's a real breakthrough for us, because Quidel is

going to be able to give us access to these rapid-result point-of-care tests, which will allow us to daily test football players, men's and women's basketball student athletes, so that we can have a high degree of confidence that anyone participating in a practice or a game does not have and cannot spread the virus.

Given the prevalence of the spread in the communities and on our campuses that you talked about, we have been proceeding with an abundance of caution. And we have not wanted to go forward with the season if we thought, by asking student athletes to compete and practice with one another, they'd be encouraging spread amongst the teams.

So, no one's been able to get to daily testing with immediate results like this. And thanks to the partnership with Quidel, which will also include research to really prove out this algorithm and prove that daily testing with this antigen test can perform compared to PCR tests, we're hopeful that our research will also help the school, return to work, and to getting our economy back to normal.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SCOTT: And that's what our universities are all about.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: No, let's hope so. We all want that.

But that dovetails into my question for Doug, because, obviously, I'm just thinking about the fall. Everyone wants fall ball. But we have been reporting for months about inadequacies in testing just across the board.

So how can you guarantee that your tests are effective and safe?

BRYANT: Well, first, we're -- let me just start, Brooke, by saying we're particularly proud to be involved with the Pac-12 in this project, which, in addition to doing what we can to help the student athletes there, we're also using it as the largest asymptomatic population trial to date.

And I think that's going to be really helpful in determining when and if we can get other folks throughout the country back to work.

We think it's going to be a net benefit to the economy. And that's why we're engaged, mainly because we think that the research is going to be so valuable.