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Interview with Vice Presidential Candidate, Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA); Trump's Character in Focus Amid a Series of Tell-All Books; Trump Denies Calling U.S. War Dead "Losers and Suckers"; Interview with Representative Adam Schiff about Possible Election Interference. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired September 06, 2020 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

CABRERA: And CNN brings you the stories of Joe Biden and Donald Trump in a back-to-back documentary events starting tomorrow night at 8:00 here on CNN.

Thanks so much for joining me. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Dana Bash picks up CNN's coverage right now.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Hello, and welcome to a special edition of NEWSROOM. I'm Dana Bash in Washington.

Fifty-eight days to go until the final presidential ballots are cast. President Trump is fending off an onslaught of allegations that strike at the very heart of his character and his credibility. First, a former senior administration official tells CNN that Trump referred to fallen U.S. service members in crude and derogatory terms during his 2018 trip to France, largely confirming a blockbuster report from "The Atlantic" magazine which cited sources who said Trump referred to U.S. war dead as losers and suckers.

And now a flurry of tell-all books begin to hit the shelves. CNN has obtained a copy of Michael Cohen's new book "Disloyal: A Memoir" and, writes that he says the president thinks not so well of minorities in the wake of the president's presidential kickoff announcement in 2015. According to Cohen, Trump told him, I will never get the Hispanic vote. Like the blacks, they're stupid to vote for Trump. They're not my people.

Now Cohen, we should note, went to jail for lying under oath, Yet in this book, he also says that President Obama's win in 2018 made Trump rant, saying, "Tell me one country run by a black person that isn't an S hole. They are all complete f-ing toilets."

Another book is on its way this week according to the "Washington Post,' former FBI agent Peter Strzok alleges in his book "Compromised" that investigators had to consider whether Russia was secretly controlling Trump after he took office. He writes, "Given what we knew or had cause to suspect about Trump's compromising behavior in the weeks, months and years leading up to the election, it also seemed conceivable that Moscow had indeed pulled off the most stunning intelligence achievement in U.S. history, secretly controlling the president of the United States, a Manchurian candidate elected."

Let me get straight to the White House and CNN's Jeremy Diamond is there.

So, Jeremy, a lot to digest there at the White House. Two new books. But there is more coming but in these in particular, obviously, these are -- the one case, somebody who is disgruntled and another case somebody who has never been -- as always been kind of a foil of the president and yet there's a third behind-the-scenes book due out next week. This is from award-winning and legendary reporter and author Bob Woodward, multiple Pulitzer Prize winner, three very highly visible tell-all books all together at the same time. What are you hearing at the White House?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No doubt, Dana. And you know better than anyone that in this post Labor Day period, this is when those swing voters are just beginning to tune in a very serious way and they are going to be looking for information on these two candidates running for president. And so there's no doubt that these three books coming out in addition as well as this "Atlantic" article that makes these damning allegations that the president disparaged fallen service members.

All of this is going to play into the calculations that voters are making as election day approaches. Mow on this Michael Cohen book, for example, you hear Michael Cohen describe the president as a cheat, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, a con man and that's just in one sentence. And then you've got this book by Peter Strzok, who you aptly described as one of the president's foils but also somebody who of course was intimately involved in the investigations into the president and his campaign, and these questions of Russian interference. He concludes that the president is a national security threat in his view.

And then of course there is the Bob Woodward book, the veteran "Washington Post" journalist who is expected to describe several explosive accounts of the president's handling of national security affairs as well as the coronavirus pandemic. The president for his part, he has already offered a prebuttal of sorts to the Woodward book, even though we haven't seen any details of what it actually includes. The president who sat for several interviews with Woodward has already described this as a fake book.

He hasn't, however, Dana, weighed in so far on this Michael Cohen book. But the White House press secretary has and this is her statement that she offered just yesterday. She says, "Michael Cohen is a disgrace felon and disbarred lawyer who lied to Congress. He has lost all credibility and it's unsurprising to see his latest attempt to profit off of lies."

Now there's no doubt, Dana, that Michael Cohen has credibility issues of his own, you know. Besides his tactics during the 2016 campaign when he lied and bullied reporters on behalf of then-candidate Donald Trump, he has also pleaded guilty to nine felony charges including one charge of lying to Congress.

[19:05:09]

But that being said, there's no doubt that many of the incidents being described in the book including the president's reported characterization of leaders of -- black leaders of other countries, those things have been reported before in different forms. So there's no question that a lot of what he is saying here does match some of the things that we've already seen from the president publicly or that have been reported by various news outlets -- Dana.

BASH: That's a very important point. Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much for that reporting.

And Donald Trump's views on American veterans have been in the spotlight before, during the last presidential election cycle. He was widely rebuked for mocking the military record of Senator John McCain who was shot down and held captive for 5 1/2 years during the Vietnam War. Now later in the 2016 campaign, Trump also got into a feud with a Gold Star family after Khizr Khan, the father of an Army captain who was killed in Iraq, criticized the then candidate at the 2016 Democratic convention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHIZR KHAN, FATHER OF FALLEN MUSLIM AMERICAN SOLDIER: Have you ever been to Arlington Cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders, and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Gold Star father, rather, Khizr Khan, who is now a surrogate for Joe Biden's campaign, joins me now.

Mr. Khan, thank you so much for speaking with me this evening. You and your wife were the targets of the president's smears after that powerful speech. I was there. I was on the floor of that convention. I remember it -- I'll never forget it. Incredibly powerful. But for you, as the parent of a service member who gave the ultimate sacrifice, when you hear reports that this president may have called America's war dead losers, what goes through your mind?

KHAN: Dana, thank you. It's good to be with you. This is all I can say is that when Donald Trump calls anyone who places their life in service of others a loser, we understand Trump's own soul by his accounting, self-sacrifice does not make sense. Love does not make sense. Love of country does not make sense.

According to Trump, the winners in life are those that put themselves before all. To him, service, valor, service to country does not mean anything and he continues to disrespect. Look at the recent -- very recent, after this article that was published that had been verified by multiple sources, he went on to disrespect General Kelly. With General Kelly, I may have difference of opinion. I do not agree with his policies, but he was member of his Cabinet. A Gold Star father that serves -- served our armed forces with valor. And the moment he told the truth about Trump, Trump turned on him.

BASH: Mr. Khan, I just want to --

KHAN: Yes.

BASH: Go ahead, I'm sorry. Continue.

KHAN: History of the last three years is witness to what Trump is doing to destroy our democracy one institution at a time. The only people that are happy with his behavior, with his undoing of our democratic institution are our enemies, Russia and China, and especially Putin, Trump's real estate benefactor. Therefore, it is in the history now that he is up to harming our institutions, our elections, our system of government.

BASH: So I just want to play for you something that the president's Veterans Affairs secretary Robert Wilkie told me in an interview this morning about all this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Have you ever heard the president disparaged U.S. service members or veterans?

ROBERT WILKIE, SECRETARY OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: Well, absolutely not. And I would be offended, too, if I thought it was true.

BASH: Given the fact that nobody is backing down from the sourcing on that, how can you be sure that that is not true especially since you weren't there?

[19:10:06]

WILKIE: Well, nobody is backing down from the anonymous sourcing on it. And some of these sources that you cite are general officers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, Mr. Khan, Secretary Wilkie served in the Navy Reserve. He currently serves in the Air Force Reserve. What's your reaction to what he had to say?

KHAN: Well, he needs to have a one-on-one conversation with General Kelly. General Kelly will tell him. He is -- and that is the sad part that these patriots that have joined Trump and have become his enablers are right now helping him instead of holding him accountable, they are enabling him to continue to damage our democracy, of our democratic institutions. There is no doubt the content of the article in "Atlantic" are correct, are true. The folks in coming days will come forward and will verify and certify that.

BASH: How do you know, sir?

KHAN: Trump has --

BASH: I'm sorry, how do you know -- have you talked to people who you believe will come forward and verify on the record these reports?

KHAN: I have not spoken to anyone, but I am witness to what he spoke about Senator McCain, it's public record. He continues to deny, his White House continues to deny. But the record speaks for itself. It is public information. It is available to anyone. Trump called him -- yes.

BASH: Right. So that's different from these allegations in "The Atlantic" which include several things, part of that is that he questioned why people go into this service while standing with John Kelly at the grave of his son. You mentioned his name a couple of times. As a fellow Gold Star father, do you want him to come forward considering the fact that he was there and he could clear this up, either confirm or deny that the president said these things?

KHAN: Not only him, but I would like and I would urge all of our flag officers. Flag officers never retire. They may not be active duty, but they never retire from the military service. Our men and women currently serving stand on the shoulders of these flag officers. They deserve that this behavior be rebuked. Just imagine the anguish of the families of those serving in harm's way when they hear that our enemy, Russia, has placed bounties on the heads of our soldiers.

Imagine the anguish of the families and the current commander-in-chief says not a single word in support of our troops. So these flag officers, owe to the country, owe to our men and women serving to rebuke this commander-in-chief for disrespecting men and women serving in uniform today.

BASH: Khizr Khan, thank you so much for coming on this evening. We really appreciate it.

KHAN: Thank you.

BASH: Thank you.

And coming up, amid these claims about the president's views on veterans, a senior adviser to the Trump campaign joins me live to respond. Plus, the Department of Homeland Security is warning that Russia is amplifying false claims about mail-in voting. So what's being done to counter it? I'll speak with the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Adam Schiff. He joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:18:00]

BASH: The Department of Homeland Security issued an intelligence bulletin obtained by CNN warning about Russian attempts to undermine the U.S. election process. Not only does it say Russia has been amplifying election integrity issues since March, it also goes on to give a series of examples, for instance, the bulletin says Russia has criticized the integrity of expanded and universal vote by mail. That's strikingly familiar to something that President Trump said just last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This universal mail-in is a very dangerous thing. It's fraught with fraud and every other thing that can happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: The intelligence bulletin also says Russia has denigrated vote by mail processes alleging they lack transparency and procedural oversight creating vast opportunities for voter fraud. Again, we've heard this, too, from the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The ballots are lost. There's fraud. There's theft. It's happening all over the place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And the DHS warning goes on to say Russia has, quote, "amplified public narratives about shortcomings in ballot delivery and processing," and here was President Trump speaking on August 15th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Now New Jersey is going to try the universal mail-in voting. So how does a post office -- how does a postal service that doesn't know about it, now all of a sudden New Jersey is supposed to take out and millions of ballots are going to be sent all over New Jersey?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff who is the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee joins me now.

Thank you so much for coming on. When you hear the president saying those things and you see the bulletin, and I'm sure you see a lot more than that since you're the chairman of the Intelligence Committee, about Russia is trying to do when it comes to misinformation or disinformation about the mail-in voting system about to start in this country as the election is here, what are we to think?

[19:20:08]

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Well, this is really not at all surprising. You know, I think weeks or months ago I was asking the intelligence agencies to look out for exactly this, the Russians amplifying the president's false claims about vote by mail. It was simply too attractive a target for the Russians because they could both -- achieve both of their aims, they could cause Americans to distrust their own democracy, but they could also help Donald Trump and the Trump campaign.

And sure enough now this is what we're seeing and tragically the president is doing nothing to deter it, nothing to disrupt it because he frankly wants the Russian help. He's made it abundantly clear in 2016 that he wanted their help, in 2019 that he was ready to coerce Ukraine for their help, he apparently begged President Xi for China's help. This president just doesn't care what it does for our democracy.

BASH: Are you suggesting that the president is being as aggressive as he is on this publicly in order to send a signal to Russia, to do what they're doing?

SCHIFF: Well, I don't think he needs to send a signal. I think the Russians well understand both that this is the president's message and they can help the president's campaign by amplifying it. But they can also potentially help cause chaos in the aftermath of our election and I would look for the Russians again after the election takes place as those ballots are being counted if the president continues his false claims about these -- the sanctity of these ballots, I would fully expect the Russians to be piling on.

And, you know, what we're trying to do in our committee is expose what the Russians are doing. They shouldn't -- it shouldn't be that the American people are learning about this through leaks of the press. The intelligence community, the agencies should be telling the American people.

We learned, Dana, in addition to this DHS bulletin, we learned through good reporting just a couple of weeks ago that there was a second bulletin saying the Russians were denigrating Joe Biden's health, echoing the same claims, the false smears that Donald Trump is making on Joe Biden. That was withheld from the law enforcement agencies. It was also withheld from Congress. I don't remember ever seeing this.

And we got to continue to fight to make sure that we're informed and the American people are informed because exposure is one of the tools we can use to protect the public.

BASH: And I want to ask you about that in a second. But first, I want to ask about something that the Attorney General William Barr said to Wolf Blitzer this past week about threats to this election. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The Intelligence Committee says Russia, China and Iran are seeking to interfere in the U.S. presidential election for various reasons, but mostly they want to sow dissent in our country, exacerbate racial tensions, et cetera, like that. Of those three countries that the intelligence community has pointed to, Russia, China and Iran, which is the most assertive, the most aggressive in this area?

WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I believe it's China.

BLITZER: Which one?

BARR: China.

BLITZER: China more than Russia right now?

BARR: Yes.

BLITZER: Why do you say that?

BARR: Because I've seen the intelligence. That's what I've concluded.

BLITZER: What are they trying to do?

BARR: Well, I'm not going to discuss that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, Mr. Chairman, without divulging classified information, have you seen evidence that Trump officials insist they have seen that China is actively interfering in this election far more than Russia?

SCHIFF: No, that's just a plain false statement by the attorney general. A flat-out false statement. You know, interestingly, some administration officials have been trying to mislead the public by saying that China is the bigger threat to the country in speaking in global terms, because of the rise in power of China. And they are using that answer in response to questions about the election, but they're at least careful in their misleading the public by not saying that they're a greater threat to the election.

They're just saying generically they're a bigger threat. But what Bill Barr just said in statement was just flat-out mislead the American people with a blatantly false statement. Joe Biden has been briefed as well as our committees, and he acknowledged as much the other day. And it's just such a disservice to the country that we can't trust our own attorney general but apparently Bill Barr is ready to do anything or say anything to help Donald Trump.

BASH: You're basically saying he's lying.

SCHIFF: Well, that's basically what he's doing. And I hesitate to say that. But it is the reality. Bill Barr isn't going to itemize the intelligence because it's just a flat-out false statement.

BASH: And you're confident that you have seen the intelligence that he has seen and you've come to clearly a different conclusion. That conclusion being that it is Russia that is far more active in trying to sow disinformation in -- misinformation in this election more than China.

SCHIFF: Yes. And in fact, if you look at what the intelligence director Evanina, who runs the National Counterintelligence Center, what he said in his public written statement, he said that Russia was actively interfering, actively engaging across a range of measures to influence the outcome.

[19:20:19]

China had a preference. And if you look at that, you can tell that Bill Barr is just flat-out lying to the American people and it's tragic, but it's as simple as that.

BASH: I asked the Democratic vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris about this issue. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I want to ask about Russia.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Yes.

BASH: The Department of Homeland Security bulletin said that Russia is trying to amplify claims that mail-in voting will lead to widespread voting fraud and undermine the public's trust in the upcoming election. Are you worried that Russian interference could cost you the election?

HARRIS: I am clear that Russia interfered in the election of president of the United States in 2016. I serve on the Senate Intelligence Committee. We have published detailed reports about exactly what we believe happened and I do believe that there will be foreign interference in the 2020 election and that Russia will be at the front of the line.

BASH: Could it cost you the White House?

HARRIS: Theoretically, of course. Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Do you share that concern, Mr. Chairman?

SCHIFF: Well, you know, I certainly share the concern. If you look at the 2016 election, it was decided by I think about 70,000 votes in three different states and given the size of the Russian operation, we'll never be able to tell whether that interference was decisive in an election that close. If this election is very close, then will these Russian efforts on social media through their overt media, through other modalities the Russians are using could they be determinative.

It's certainly possible which is all the reason -- all the more reason why we need to -- you know, deter, disrupt and expose what the Russians are doing and why what the president is doing and Bill Barr is doing is so destructive for our democracy when they essentially cover for the Russians because, you know, by misleading the United States and our citizens about China, China being a bigger threat to the elections, they're basically giving Russia free rein because the Russians know, you know, that coward in the White House, Donald Trump, will never call out Putin. Bill Barr certainly won't, and therefore they can do whatever they want and Donald Trump is still going to blame China.

BASH: Real quick, I know that you wrote a letter inviting the director of National Intelligence, John Ratcliffe, to come and testify before your committee. Have you heard back and if not, are you going to issue a subpoena?

SCHIFF: We have not gotten an answer yet and we'll be discussing with the speaker, following up with whatever coercion we need to make sure we get answers. But, Dana, the fact that, for example, that DHS bulletin about the Russians trying to denigrate and smear Joe Biden's health, that was withheld from law enforcement. We can't rely on documents if they're going to be withholding documents.

BASH: Right.

SCHIFF: You need to be able to ask questions. So, you know, we'll do whatever we need to do to get the information and protect the country.

BASH: That sounds like a subpoena.

SCHIFF: Well, you know, that's a decision that our leadership ultimately makes because it impacts the whole House.

BASH: OK. Understand. OK. Adam Schiff, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, thank you so much for coming on, especially this holiday weekend. Appreciate it.

And up next, President Trump says he is optimistic a vaccine could be ready by election day. Would vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris take it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Well, I think that's going to be an issue for all of us. I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: More of my exclusive interview with Kamala Harris is next.

[19:33:29]

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: In a campaign year like no other, politics and the pandemic are totally intertwined.

Joe Biden says wearing a mask is a symbol of leadership and has talked about a national mask mandate if elected, but the Biden-Harris position hasn't been entirely clear on this issue.

So I asked Biden's running mate, vice presidential nominee, Senator Kamala Harris about that and more in my exclusive interview with her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Early on, the former Vice President Joe Biden appeared to support a federal mask mandate. And now, he says he would put a lot of pressure on governors, on mayors, and on local officials for them to issue the mandate.

So can you clear this up? What exactly is the Biden-Harris stance on this? Would a Biden Harris administration support a Federal mask mandate?

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: So the Biden Harris position on this is that leaders must lead. And one of the ways leaders lead is they set standards.

And so what Joe has been very clear about in his personal behavior, much less in what he is admonishing and requesting of the American people is that we all make the sacrifice to wear a mask in the interest of love of our neighbor, in the interest of defeating or at least reducing the health risks and the number of deaths in America.

So it's about a national standard. Everyone should wear a mask and here's the thing about this. None of us likes wearing a mask. Nobody likes to wear a mask.

BASH: Right. But the difference between a standard --

HARRIS: But it is about sacrifice.

BASH: Right. There's a difference between a standard and a mandate. Would it be a Federal mandate under the Biden-Harris administration?

[19:35:08]

HARRIS: It would be a standard. Listen, this is not about, like in terms of the priorities of Joe Biden and myself, this is not about punishment. It's not about Big Brother.

It is simply about saying, what a leader -- about what a leader says in times of crisis, and this is -- you look at World War II. You look at the Great Depression, where leaders said, we each have to sacrifice for the sake of the nation and the collective and that's what this is about.

BASH: Right. And I get that, but how do you enforce a standard, especially when, as you know, there are governors who are in -- you know, who just don't agree with that, and they're not mandating it on the more local level. How do you enforce that?

HARRIS: But I think that part of the issue here is that we have a President of the United States who made this a partisan issue and made it a political issue, and he had governors who fell in line with him on his politics.

BASH: And you don't think it'll still be a partisan issue if you win?

HARRIS: I hope not. I pray not, because this -- the COVID, the virus could care less who we voted for in the last election or who you plan to vote for in the next election, and we need leadership that appreciates that on certain issues, they should not be partisan and wearing a mask certainly shouldn't be one of them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: There are 58 days until the Election Day, some voters are already casting their ballots, but new accusations from many books and articles are making claims about the President's character.

Senior advisor to the Trump campaign, Jason Miller joins me live to discuss that and more, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:40:47]

BASH: The White House and the Trump campaign are doing damage control after numerous outlets report that the President made disparaging remarks about America's war dead including calling them losers and suckers, that according to "The Atlantic."

The President flat out denies ever saying these things, but he has denigrated members of the U.S. military in public, on tape, numerous times and he has a history of making false denials even on this very topic.

This week, for example, President said he never called John McCain a loser when he did on videotape. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I supported him. He lost, he let us down. But you know, he lost. So I've never liked him as much after that, because I don't like losers.

But Frank, Frank, let me get to him. He hit me.

QUESTION: But he is a war hero.

TRUMP: He's not a war hero.

QUESTION: He is a war hero.

TRUMP: He is a war hero --

QUESTION: Five and a half years --

TRUMP: He is a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured. Okay. I hate to tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I'm joined now by Trump Campaign senior adviser, Jason Miller.

Jason, thank you for coming on this evening. You see why people are questioning the President's versions of events here, right?

JASON MILLER, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: I don't think so. I think the President has been very definitive that this entire scene did not happen. I think a lot of the evidence has already been shown that there was a bad weather call for why the President didn't go to this -- the memorial service in France a couple of years ago.

And I just want to point out one notable thing here. These are all anonymous sources. And even in the several days since the story first came out, nobody has stepped forward and said, I'm going to put my name on this. We're in Washington, D.C. This is the heart of the swamp. This is

where people come out of the woodwork when they have a political agenda. We're less than 60 days away from the election, and they make up these stories and they push them forward.

And even look, even the reporter from "The Atlantic" who wrote the story, decried anonymous sources back in 2016 when they were attacking him, but now he thinks it is okay.

So I think this is partisan politics. I think people see through this.

BASH: Well, I mean, of course, there's partisan politics going on. We're 58 days until the election. But that's a separate question from people who were in and around the President, sources that it's -- this is not just "The Atlantic."

FOX News, a very respected reporter at FOX News, the AP -- parts of it were confirmed here at CNN, and you mentioned anonymous sources.

One part of the story is centered not just on the trip or non-trip to the cemetery in France, but also at the grave of John Kelly's son during a visit with John Kelly, so if this isn't true, would you not think that John Kelly would come out and say it's false?

MILLER: I think John Kelly wants to stay out of politics. Look, I've seen the footage where President Trump honored John Kelly's son at a private service, and I know that since I've been around President Trump, I've seen him honor veterans or people who have lost loved ones in combat serving our country over and over.

In fact, I was with the President in the Oval Office a couple of weeks ago, and a gentleman came down who had served our country in combat, and the President praised him and was saying over the top great things about how much he appreciated his service.

And these are the things that the camera doesn't even necessarily pick up. These are things that he says in private in his interactions.

BASH: Right.

MILLER: But here's -- Dana, I want to go back to the whole anonymous sources thing for a moment, because why won't anyone step up and put their name on this if they're -- if it's actually something that's true? I don't think that it is true, I think it's --

BASH: Have you seen what happens -- have you seen what happens to people who cross the President? The sort of maelstrom that they get involved in?

I mean, maybe that is why the way that President goes after people who do that, but one of the things I want to just correct you about John Kelly. He did come out and publicly say that -- criticized the President for the way that he got the military involved in his photo op outside the church during those protests.

But on this issue, President Trump -- MILLER: But, Dana, respectfully, but you're conflating -- conflating

--

BASH: Well, how am I conflating?

MILLER: Because General Kelly hasn't said anything about the story. He hasn't backed up these anonymous claims. He hasn't --

BASH: True, but you suggested that John Kelly has stayed out of politics. There, he did not stay out of politics. He did speak out.

MILLER: I said that I think -- to be clear, I believe -- to be clear, I believe that General Kelly wants to stay out of the current political environment that's why you don't see him out there making political commentary. So that's what I am speaking to.

[19:45:10]

BASH: Okay.

MILLER: But again, even -- here's the thing on President Trump, though. When you have folks like BuzzFeed, when you have folks who have routinely criticized the President saying, you know what, actually with regard to the services and the President not being able to make it for a bad weather call, when you have folks like BuzzFeed who come to his defense on this, I think that shows that, hey, there could have been some basic, basic fact-checking that this reporter from "The Atlantic" could have done, but he didn't because there was an agenda.

BASH: All right, but Jason, it's not just "The Atlantic." It's multiple outlets that are very well respected, and I know that you know that.

I want to move on to just talk a little bit more about this because President Trump has frequently questioned the patriotism in public. We're not talking about private conversations, anonymous sources. He's done this in public in and about his political opponents.

This summer, the campaign questioned Senator Tammy Duckworth's patriotism, someone who lost her legs on the battlefield in Iraq.

MILLER: Hold on. Real quick, Dana --

BASH: How can --

MILLER: Dana, respectfully, just on that point, I want to make it very clear. Tammy Duckworth was attacking George Washington. This had nothing to do with her patriotic service.

BASH: I was doing that interview, Jason. She didn't attack George Washington. She said that is a conversation that could happen about whether or not monuments like that should be dismantled.

I don't want to get off topic, though, because you're very good --

MILLER: Dana, but you gave her the kill opportunity to say that she was --

BASH: I don't want to get on topic. I don't want to get on topic -- off topic on this.

MILLER: But you brought -- you brought it up.

BASH: My question is --

MILLER: I understand, but you did bring it up.

BASH: Okay. Okay. But she -- but she didn't attack George Washington and he attacked her. And she is somebody who understands the notion of defending this country and almost gave the ultimate sacrifice in doing that.

So my question, and if I can just go back to where --

MILLER: But this is important because I very much --

BASH: I go back to where I started this interview, which is, these are data points that make it more believable even with anonymous sources, but I want to turn the corner to coronavirus because this is also a very, very important issue.

The President, you know, has a credibility problem, particularly when it comes to mixed messages that people are getting on something that is so incredibly important, which is their health, their own personal health.

Earlier this summer, you remember he said wearing a mask is patriotic. You guys tweeted out a picture of him in a mask. And just this past week, he mocked Joe Biden for wearing one.

So you know, that is kind of an example of concern that there is an erosion of trust of his credibility and then just trust in institutions. People need to believe in order to trust a vaccine when there is one.

MILLER: Yes, and I think -- look, Dana, your interview this morning with Senator Kamala Harris, which by the way, I thought was fantastic. And if I were someone else on CNN who hosted a Sunday morning show, I'd be getting a food taster so I think you're probably going to take their job pretty quickly here. You did a great job of that interview.

But look, Senator Harris was raising questions about the credibility of our F.D.A., of our C.D.C.

BASH: No, she wasn't.

MILLER: Of our government and our scientists.

BASH: You know, I'm not going to defend her.

MILLER: Yes, Dana, I watched your interview and I read the transcript.

BASH: I know. I'm not going to -- you know what? I think we have a soundbite.

MILLER: No, it's --

BASH: I think we have a soundbite. Let's just actually, to be fair, let's play what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: His priority was to -- to do whatever he thought was politically expedient. And so, no, I would not trust his word. I would trust the word of public health experts and scientists, but not Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That's what she said. She didn't trust -- she didn't question the F.D.A. or scientists. She said the opposite. She questioned the President because of his mixed messages.

MILLER: But Dana, you gave her -- but then you gave her the opportunity to come back and asked if she would take the vaccine, and again, she threw out attacks against President Trump.

And the fact of the matter is, Dr. Stephen Hahn who is the head of the F.D.A., all the other scientists have made it very clear this is going to be driven by scientists. This is going to be implemented by scientists.

Now President Trump should get credit for Operation Warp Speed for putting the things into place to get to this, and the fact that we're going to have a vaccine by year's end at a record speed like this is fantastic.

Let me tell you something, Dana, where I think this is very serious and we need to be careful when we start throwing around the political allegations and trying to raise questions.

If Senator Harris and Joe Biden -- keep in mind going back to their initial press conference where Joe Biden was basically often the anti- vaxxer plan and Senator Harris was saying you're not getting it done soon enough.

If people don't go and get a safe, approved vaccine, the scientists have said is ready to go, people could get sick, people could die.

BASH: Totally.

MILLER: And I think for Joe Biden and Senator Harris to go to try to question --

BASH: But what if there is -- but what if the President is --

MILLER: But Dana, they're trying to question the very legitimacy of a vaccine --

BASH: They are not. They are questioning -- what they are questioning is our --

MILLER: They are absolutely.

BASH: Okay.

MILLER: They are absolutely.

BASH: They are questioning, but what they are questioning is whether it is going to be something that is safe given the fact that our reporting and others' reporting is that the President is pressuring the scientists to get it done fast before the election, so it helps him with the election.

[19:50:17]

MILLER: He is pressuring -- he is pressuring everyone involved in the medical community to make this the top priority. That's why they call it Operation Warp Speed. They're not calling it Operation Take Your Time. They're not calling an Operation Be Slow. They want Warp Speed, because they want to get it done.

Now --

BASH: Which everybody does, but everybody wants to get it done safely.

MILLER: The tests that make sure that -- correct and they want to make sure it's safe. They want to make sure the distribution is set up so we can get it to the people who are in need as soon as possible, people who are on the frontlines. That is what everybody wants.

But very clear.

BASH: Okay.

MILLER: And I'm going to tell you why Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, why they're throwing these questions out and trying to attack the President and potentially scaring people from taking the vaccine because they know under President Trump's leadership, we're going to get to a vaccine.

We're going to get to it in record time. They are trying to thwart and trying to muddle the message and trying to attack the legitimacy of actually developing it.

BASH: Well, we are in the middle of a campaign and I think that what you're saying goes a little bit too far it when it comes to representing what they said.

They were talking about the President and not and not the scientists and I think everybody should agree that it is the scientists that we should all listen to.

I'll leave it there. Flattery will get you nowhere. You know that, Jason Miller. Thank you so much.

We'll be right back.

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[19:55:54]

BASH: For the fourth night in a row, Rochester, New York saw tense interactions between police and protesters. Rochester Police say they deployed teargas and pepper balls on the crowd after some began to throw bottles at officers. At least nine were arrested.

Demonstrators are demanding justice for Daniel Prude, a black man who died following an encounter with police back in March. All seven officers involved were suspended earlier this week.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is following all of the developments from Rochester. Polo, give us an update of what's happening right now with the protests on the ground and also more broadly, the investigation?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, let's start with the protest. Right now, the group coming together again, it's going to be the fifth night that protesters hit the streets of Rochester, calling not just for justice, but also for change in light of the death of Daniel Prude returning to the very site where that incident happened back in March.

And today, response coming from the Mayor and the Police Chief specifically addressing the issue of mental health, Dana. Of course, that is one of the key issues in this case here.

You recall that when that incident happened in March, Mr. Prude's brother called police saying that his the 41-year-old brother was experiencing of mental health episode and that's when police encountered him on this very spot where I'm standing.

So today, the Mayor announcing change on multiple fronts here. They plan to double the amount of health professionals that could be potentially available for these kinds of calls.

They also plan to relocate the Family Crisis Intervention Team from the Police Department over to a separate community center, and that speaks to that ongoing call for defunding police or restructuring the police.

And as far as what can we expect tonight. I can tell you that they did -- they do have a team of volunteers, about 50 church members that will actually act as a peacekeeping buffer between protesters and police since the last four nights, things have gotten fairly chaotic during the last hour or so of the protest -- Dana.

BASH: Polo Sandoval, thank you so much for that report.

And coming up, health experts remain hopeful we could have a coronavirus vaccine by the end of the year, but will people choose to get it? New polling shows many Americans are skeptical of any vaccine that would come out this year. Our doctors are standing by to discuss.

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