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Cohen Alleges Trump Said Mandela "Was No Leader"; MLB Season Serves As Case Study For Returning To Work Amid COVID. Aired 12:30-1pm ET

Aired September 07, 2020 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:31:34]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: President Trump's longtime right hand man says he repeatedly witnessed racist outbursts. Michael Cohen details several in a new book. One, according to Cohen, came after the 2013 death of South African President Nelson Mandela.

Trump said Mandela F up the whole country. Now it's an S hole. F Mandela. He was no leader. I'm sorry I had to read that but there was right there. It's important to note Cohen pleaded guilty to lying to Congress. The White House says Cohen has lost all credibility. And it's unsurprising to see his latest attempt to profit off of lies.

With me now is CNN's Abby Phillip, and Abby, you see this from Michael Cohen and the White House can deny it all they want. But the language in the disparaging remarks about a hero, Nelson Mandela, tracks other things the President has said about Africa and about African leaders and the broader Michael Cohen description of his former boss as an overt and frequent racist, also attracts things sadly, that we see with our own eyes.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And it's particularly notable considering the role that Michael Cohen actually has played over the years, which is in some cases -- when he was working for Donald Trump to inoculate him from accusations of racism, you know, citing his work in the Trump Organization, citing his work on the apprentice, and now you see Michael Cohen really taking a totally different tact.

But this along with a lot of other things that have been happening for President Trump recently including his comments about the military, it is more believable to the public because it is not too dissimilar from what has already been reported, what he has already said publicly describing, for example, for the late Congressman Elijah Cummings, his Baltimore district, as rat infested.

These are the types of comments that I think the problem for President Trump in denying them now is that too many people they will ring true based on what he has said on the record already in other circumstances that are similar. And that seemed to point to the same idea, which is that the President seems to use this kind of language when he's talking about poor nations, African nations, places where he doesn't want immigrants to come from, for example.

KING: And the flip side, Abby, is you see clear policy decisions being made by the incumbent president, a president running for reelection has the power of the presidency, your policy choices can shape an election, this President's policy choices of lay clearly designed to drive up white turnout, one of the Trump campaign strategies is there are these tens of thousands of people they believe stayed on the sidelines in 2016 that if they came to play, they would vote for President Trump.

So just in recent days, he says the Education Department will investigate schools that use the New York Times Magazine 1619 project is any part of their curriculum. He says he will purge the use of the critical race theory, these seminars that federal employees get on racial sensitivity issues. He's also bragged that he's repeal the Fair Housing Rule. And he says it will keep people, unwelcome people out of the suburbs. Again, you'd look at those policies and what they do. There's no secret, it's in plain sight.

PHILLIP: And what's interesting to me, John, about all of this is how narrowly focused some of these policies, if you want to call them that are. They are so laser focused on such a narrow band of the President's own white supporters that you have to wonder is there even any thought that this might not appeal to people who he actually needs who are in the middle of the political spectrum who are more independent who are not going to be popular interested in these bass plays on the 1619 project or critical race theory.

[12:35:06]

What it speaks to is what we see in the polls, which is that Republicans far more than Democrats and Independents are likely to believe that white people are the people facing the most discrimination in this country, where they face significant discrimination in this country.

That's actually also a belief that President Trump himself espouses, in interviews recently saying that white people are more likely to be killed by police officers, even though that's not actually what the data shows saying on his Twitter feed, talking a lot about reverse discrimination against white people.

So he's speaking to people who are already with him. The question as always, John, with these things is, is there any thought to expanding the base and these plays might work to get his core supporters out, but this year, even more so than in 2016? It is not clear if that's going to be enough.

KING: It's not clear whether the math will work. That's an excellent point. But as we have learned and you learn from your time inside the White House gates and on the campaign trail, this President when he feels under pressure routinely goes back to the base that is reflex. It is his move. He believes it worked in 2016. We will see if it does this time. Abby Phillip, grateful for the reporting and insights there.

Still ahead for us, India just surpassed Brazil. It's now the second -- now has the second most coronavirus infections in the world.

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[12:40:54]

KING: A top Olympic official says the Tokyo games will take place next July regardless of where the worldwide battle with COVID stance, the vice president of the International Olympic Games already calling them, quote, the games that conquered COVID. But it is still unclear remains to be seen if those games will allow spectators, more international headlines now from our correspondents around the globe.

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VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: Here in India, the country has surpassed Brazil's COVID-19 caseload. It is second only to the U.S. in known COVID-19 cases. For the last two days, India has reported over 90,000 new infections while India's population stands at over 1.36 billion. Brazil has a population of over 211 million.

India has confirmed death toll stands at over 71,000, the third highest after the U.S. and Brazil. One reason for the high number of infections being reported from India is aggressive testing. India has tested almost 15 million samples to date. As part of easing COVID-19 restrictions, metro services have resumed integrated manner, strict protocols to ensure social distancing has been implemented at stations as well as inside trains.

Later this month gatherings of hundred people or less will be allowed for public functions. According to the health ministry, 60 percent of India's total cases are being reported from five states.

Vedika Sud, CNN, New Delhi.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here in London schools across the country are back in session and the government is urging businesses to send their employees back to the office just as the U.K. records its highest single day coronavirus case count since May.

Across Europe, the second wave looks set to eclipse the first one and while more testing has inevitably captured more cases, the British health secretary says the current trend in this country is concerning. He's blaming young people particularly affluent ones for the sudden spike in cases and says he's worried that if they don't follow the rules, they could spread the virus to older, more vulnerable parts of the population.

So far, it doesn't seem like they have. There are 40 times fewer people on a ventilator today in British hospitals than there were at the peak of the pandemic. And the daily death tolls have been in the single digits. Still there is concerned that those numbers could rise as they have in Spain, where they just recorded recently, nearly 200 deaths in a single day, their highest tally since May. Scott McLean, CNN, London.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here in France, there are more worrying COVID-19 figures. French authorities have announced the 28 French departments are now circled red zones, that is areas where the virus is circulating actively and where local authorities can do things like decree that masks will be mandatory outdoors and close places like bars.

Another worrying set of figures the daily rises in the number of new cases, more than 8,500 announced on Saturday, just short of the record that was set on Friday, more than 8,900 cases were announced here in France. That is the single largest daily increase that we've seen yet. We simply hadn't even at the height of the outbreak seen anything like this before.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

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[12:44:13]

KING: Up next, Major League Baseball and the lessons it is teaching us about the coronavirus back to work challenge.

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KING: We're all learning the return to work experiment can be tricky. How often do you test? What are the rules for quarantine? What about travel? Major League Baseball is offering some important lessons. Louise Radnofsky is a sports reporter for The Wall Street Journal and joins us. Louise, I'm grateful for your time.

I love the piece you and your colleague Jared Diamond wrote, because it is quite instructive. We are watching in real time as sports fans but also as Americans. The baseball season play out, they don't have the NBA's bubble. So you make an important point you and your colleague on several important questions, baseball is setting an example. So let's just go through some of them. And number one, close contact and the lessons of the Miami Marlins.

LOUISE RADNOFSKY, SPORTS REPORTER, WALL STREET JOURNAL: The main tackle (ph) and high fives are pretty risky in terms of being in contact with a person who has coronavirus infection.

And so what the Marlins and Major League Baseball kind of learned the hard way here is that initial definition of close contact requiring isolation that said simply if you've been within six feet of somebody for 15 consecutive minutes, that's bad. If not, you're good to go wasn't enough and they actually upgraded that definition of close contact to include essentially handshake, high fives, that sort of thing.

[12:50:11]

So, again, you know, if you're going to use a definition of close contact, make sure that you include brief encounters within the six feet limit, like a high five.

KING: Brief encounters being very important. And we've all been debating for seven months now. What is the incubation period here? Is it three days? Is it five days? Is it 10 days? Is it 14 days? The St. Louis Cardinals offer some instruction here.

RADNOFSKY: They do so the official range is between two days and 14 days there are some experts who think that 14 days is probably pretty extreme and unlikely the median is more like four to five days. What the Cardinals learned when they got together on a plane after three days of no positive tests after they had several previously was that they didn't wait long enough. Three days before getting on a plane, it's probably not a good amount of time to wait.

KING: All right. And this one is one of my favorite, social distancing. The Philadelphia Phillies learning to stretch it out.

RADNOFSKY: Well, this is really good news for everybody. And the main message here is taken from baseball at anyway, go outside because what Major League Baseball has experienced is no documented case in which a player on one team has contracted the coronavirus from a player on the other team. It's almost like baseball being outdoors. And relatively distance really lends itself well to these kinds of things. But the most important takeaway is if you can move it outside, you probably might want to.

KING: And so on the pariah question, this one is fascinating for everybody in terms of if somebody breaks the rules in your neighborhood bubble, in your school bubble, in your office bubble, in your sports team bubble, somebody breaks the rules, people get mad, the Cleveland Indians are an example here, Mike Clevinger no longer with the team because of it.

RADNOFSKY: Right. I mean, there's a couple of takeaways. One is that you probably can't rely on people always to be truthful about their behavior. So that's the rule on one side. The other rule of thumb is if you're the person who's being untruthful about your behavior, you need to understand that there probably are going to be pretty severe consequences maybe not being treated, but certainly some very angry feelings if you get found out.

KING: If you get caught. Honesty upfront should help but don't leave the team bubble or don't break the rules if you have rules. And lastly, on the question of testing, this is a huge issue. Now we have kids back on college campuses, we have students going back to K through 12, people going back to the office, and all these athletes are part of it is because the leagues have resources, but we're learning different lessons and you say from the Reds, the Mets and the A's, and we can hone in on some key testing questions.

RADNOFSKY: Yes. This one is somewhat specific to baseball, which figured out the testing every other day with a potential time lag of up to 48 hours to get results wasn't going to be enough if crucially, what you were going to do in the intervening time between taking a test and getting the result is potentially traveled to another city and play at least one baseball game. So what you need to know here is the length of time between taking the test and getting the result is crucial, and what you do in that intervening period matters most of all. Now most institutions do not have the resources of sports. And this is obviously an interesting issue in order to test as frequently as they have. But regardless, the takeaway here, what you do from taking the test to getting the result is as critical as any other aspect of taking that test.

KING: Louise Radnofsky, very much appreciate your time and your insights. And whether you're a baseball fan or not, you should pick up "The Wall Street Journal" read the full article. It's really fascinating. Look, Louise, thanks so much for your time today.

[12:53:28]

Up next for us, a sneak peek at tonight's CNN special report, the fight for the White House.

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KING: This is just in to CNN, a Saudi court has jailed eight people over the killing of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi in 2018. That's according to a spokesman for the prosecutor. The defendants received sentences between seven and 20 years this coming four months after Khashoggi's children said they forgave their fathers killers, which spared five government agents the death penalty.

A U.S. service member undergoing treatment right now for an injury sustained when Al-Shabaab attacked U.S. and Somali forces in Somalia. That's according to the U.S. military, the service member said to be in stable condition, and the injuries do not appear to be life threatening.

This is of course the pandemic election and the incumbent's mistakes managing the response to the coronavirus threat. Well, they complicate his bid for four more years. CNN's Jake Tapper delves into that question in a new CNN special report.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Governors were left to fend for their states.

GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): It was just mass pandemonium.

TAPPER (voice-over): Maryland Republican Governor Larry Hogan.

HOGAN: It was a 50-state strategy, some states doing better than others, and really mad scramble to try to find these things.

TAPPER (voice-over): Hogan secretly sourced half a million tests for his state from South Korea.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I asked the President about that at a briefing we had.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We got to save a lot of money, but that's OK.

COLLINS: -- to go to South Korea for the testing kits?

TRUMP: No, I don't think he needed to go to South Korea. I think he needed to get a little knowledge would have been helpful.

COLLINS: He had been assuring that testing was amazing in the United States. And the question was, well, if that's true, then why is the governor of Maryland having to go to another country?

TAPPER (voice-over): Testing was lagging far behind despite the President's spin.

TRUMP: Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That's what the bottom line.

TAPPER (voice-over): That was a lie.

Experts agree one of the singular reasons that we still have so many cases and so many deaths is because the U.S. lacked in its ability to identify the virus through tests and isolate it.

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[13:00:03]

KING: Don't miss Fight for the White House Donald Trump's Presidency, that's tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Thanks for joining us. Hope to see you back here this time tomorrow.