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Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ) and Rep. Tom Reed (R-NY) are Interviewed about a Stimulus Deal; Trump Attacks FBI Director; Aired 9:30-10a

Aired September 18, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

CROWD: (singing).

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And you heard them say sawers (ph). If you don't know, sawers are the persons who grab that saw and help cut down trees to create fire breaks.

Back to you, Jim, Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I am so glad you showed us that because, you know, they can be so hopeful in the midst of such a tragedy is remarkable.

Paul --

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: They look -- they look exhausted too.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I mean, you know, splayed out. You can just imagine what they're facing there.

HARLOW: Exhausted but still smiling and singing. Pretty on pitch too.

Paul, thanks very much.

Well, Speaker Pelosi holding her ground on another round of stimulus for struggling Americans, but is she holding too long and will the White House come to the table? What is going on here? Is there a bipartisan deal? The president actually signaling support for the plan put forward by a bipartisan group of lawmakers. Two of them join us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:35:14]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is set to speak an hour from now as Congress continues to battle over financial relief for millions of struggling Americans. The president interestingly signaling that he could get behind a bipartisan plan released this week by the House Problem Solvers Caucus. It includes a lot.

Here are some of the top lines that are striking. $1,200 one-time stimulus check with an additional $500 per child, $450 per week in increased jobless benefits for eight weeks with a possible extension, $500 billion in state and local government aid, but there are contingencies to that, and $25 billion for eviction moratoriums and rental assistance. And there's a lot more.

Still, though, this was immediately rejected by Democratic House leadership. And moments ago, Goldman Sachs came out with a report saying that it will likely downgrade its fourth quarter economic growth forecast for the U.S. if stimulus doesn't pass soon.

With me now are the bipartisan co-chairs of the Problem Solvers Caucus, Republican Congressman Tom Reed of New York and Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey.

Good morning, gentlemen, and thank you for being here.

Congressman Gottheimer, let me begin with you.

Can you get Democratic leadership on board and is Speaker Pelosi basically taking the position that perfect is the enemy of the good here and not willing to move?

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): I think, you know, frankly, what I heard this week (INAUDIBLE) along with Senator Schumer's willingness and the White House's willingness to go back to the table to me gives me faith that we're going to get there.

You know, both sides are just -- we -- you know, the key -- our whole framework in the Problem Solvers Caucus, which is 25 Democrats and 25 Republicans, was really to show a way forward where you can get Democrats and Republicans to agree and hopefully get the negotiators to sit back down and get this done.

As you know, the country is hurting. Americans are hurting. Families need help. Small businesses need help and so do our communities and states. And this is really a road map forward. And you've heard from Democrats and Republicans this week alike, not just leadership, but rank and file members that they want us all to get back to the table and get something done.

HARLOW: Well, I actually heard from eight Democratic leaders that this wasn't it for them. That this wasn't enough. But it sounds like you're saying that this is going to happen.

What about you, Congressman Reed, because the president said, quote, go for the much higher numbers, Republicans. What do your Republican colleagues think about that? Even more money all of a sudden?

REP. TOM REED (R-NY): Well, no, I'm definitely hearing from Republican colleagues. And then also when you see people like Jim Clyburn, I think, on your network, positive comments about what we did in the Problem Solvers Caucus. And I'm seeing comments even -- Mitch McConnell made some comments publicly that -- willing to go into the room and finish off this deal. And that's -- that's a good sign. That's what we were looking for in the Problem Solvers Caucus was the thawing of the gridlock.

You know, what Mark Meadows said at -- publicly at a press conference was, we've had more movement in the last 72 hours than the last 72 days.

HARLOW: Yes.

REED: And so that's a (INAUDIBLE) to the American people. But I think we can get there.

HARLOW: I -- I thought this thing was DOA, frankly. Not criticize you guys, but that was the reaction from both sides, you know, a few days ago and it really does thing -- seem like things have changed in the last 24 hours.

Congressman Reed, just a follow-up to you, because we heard Larry Kudlow, the chief White House economist, say yesterday that recovery is not, quote, contingent on more stimulus.

But looking at your district, looking at Ithaca, where just a few weeks ago that they we're going to have to furlough some 25 percent of city employees because of our dire financial straits, is that true for Ithaca that a recovery is not contingent on stimulus or is Kudlow wrong there?

REED: I think, you know, if you look across the entire country, there are pockets of people that are hurting. There are areas that are still suffering. And you've got potential on the horizon after October 1st furlough notices going out now.

And this is about what we did in the caucus saying, we recognize those voices. We hear those voices. And that's why I think you saw the change in the movement of the public comments from the White House, the president, that they recognize, we need to do a deal. And I'm just heartened that we were able to be a part of the effort to get these folks hopefully back into the room and do a good faith deal for the American people.

HARLOW: Congressman Gottheimer, your fellow Democrat in the House, Max Rose, whose also on the Problem Solvers Caucus with you guys, reacted to the Democratic leadership rejecting this outright earlier this week and said this is, quote, all the reasons why people hate politics. And then he said, it makes him, quote, disappointed to be a Democrat.

Do you feel the same?

GOTTHEIMER: No, I'm very proud to be a Democrat. I'll tell you this though, you know, what -- even with our -- all the priorities that our chairs laid out and that we've been focused on, whether it's helping our small businesses or making sure that families are going to have to put food on the table and, you know, help them with unemployment, all the things -- all of our priorities are in this proposal. What we did was just figure out a way, let's shorten the timetable.

Let's just help people now get through the next months.

[09:40:00]

They're facing very tough times. As Tom just pointed out, we've got 14 percent unemployment here in New Jersey. So many people need help. And this is really just a framework. This can get folks talking again and it shows that Democrats and Republicans can agree and put country ahead of party.

And I think that's what needs to happen right now. And, you know, the Problem Solvers Caucus, we're just sick and tired of people yelling. We just want them to solve the problems for the public that they're telling us every day, we just want you to get it done.

HARLOW: Do you, Congressman Reed, have a message for Democrats and Republicans who feel like this isn't perfect, this isn't what they wanted and so we can wait? And I ask that from the lens of you not only as a member of Congress, but as a -- you know, as one of 12 children raised by a single mother, because those are the households I'm thinking about now, single parent households, many of their kids aren't even in school, they're remote learning, they may have lost their job or they don't have enough to afford child care and they're waiting on you guys.

REED: Absolutely. Remember the faces of the people we represent. People who have been home. That's why I think when Congress returned this week, you saw a change in the tone by the rank and file members. Most of us in the Problem Solvers Caucus saying, you know what, leadership, if you don't want to lead and you don't want to hear those voices, then allow us to hear and allow us to lead and set this tone.

And that's where I think leadership's listening. And that's why you see the change in the direction of these negotiations. They're getting back in the room and that's what we asked and now let's just finish it off. Don't play any political games because those are real people behind those numbers that you're hurting.

HARLOW: Congressman Gottheimer, let me end --

GOTTHEIMER: Yes, it's time -- yes, go ahead, sorry.

HARLOW: Oh, that's OK. Let me -- let me just end on this because the -- the immediate sort of rejection by Democrats in the House of this leadership had Republicans, like Senator Marco Rubio, saying, quote, congressional leadership is just thinking about what helps them in November. It had Senator Kevin Cramer, Republican, saying they benefit from not having a deal.

Does the speaker want a deal here or does she fear it gives the president a win 46 days from the election?

GOTTHEIMER: No, no, she -- I've talked to her about this. She wants to get something done. It would be unconscionable to go home without it. And let's -- let's be clear, both sides, you know, and -- and the Republicans didn't act for -- we sent them legislation four months ago. It took them months to do something and then they -- you know, the -- Senator McConnell, to me, that was pretty -- pretty anemic last week.

So let's just be clear, both sides need to get back to the table here, stop pointing fingers at each other and just remember who we all represent, the country that needs help and Americans who need help and small businesses who need help and cops and firefighters and teachers who need help. So, I mean, that should be our job and stop the games, as Tom said, and just get it done. And that's what -- I'm really confident we're going to get something done over the next couple weeks.

HARLOW: OK. Well, couple weeks is a long time for folks, so let's see if something can happen sooner.

Congressman Gottheimer, Congressman Reed, thanks for giving us a little bit of hope that you guys do work together, sometimes. Thank you.

REED: Thanks for being on.

GOTTHEIMER: Thank you.

HARLOW: Sure.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Let's hope they keep talking.

President Trump's FBI director says that Russia is at it again, sowing divisiveness and discord in the upcoming election. So why is the president slamming that intelligence? It's been consistent. He won't accept it. We're going to discuss, next.

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[09:47:40]

SCIUTTO: Listen, the intelligence has been consistent. Russia is interfering again in this electing to a great degree, yet the president, again, repeatedly downplaying those threats. Yesterday taking the step of slamming the director of the FBI, who he appointed, over his warnings of Russian election interference under oath, mind you, on The Hill.

FBI Director Chris Wray told Congress that Russia is actively engaged in a disinformation campaign to, quote, denigrate Democratic Presidential Candidate Joe Biden, much as it did Hillary Clinton in 2016. Wray warned Americans not to get their election information from social media because the Russians are using it to sow divisiveness and discord.

Joining me now to discuss this and a whole bunch of other tech stories, CNN business reporter Donie O'Sullivan and business reporter for "USA Today," Nathan Bomey. Thanks to both of you.

SCIUTTO: Let me begin with you, Donie, because, sadly, this intelligence has been politicized, like so many other things in this country, but it has been consistent. You know, Russia's active in this election again. Same goal, promote the president, hurt his Democratic opponent.

Can you explain why the intel community and other experts see Russian interference as different from interference, which is true, from other foreign actors, such as China and Iran?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, Jim, certainly what we know about publicly is that when it comes to social media disinformation and really sort of acting on information that an intelligence agency might have hacked, Russia is more likely, as we saw in 2016, to weaponize that and leak that. And a bit unlike 2016, when we didn't really know what Russia was doing on social media until 2017 when --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

O'SULLIVAN: To figure it out, we now know what this looks like. And just two weeks ago, FaceBook took down acting on a tip from the fib, by the way, what reported to be an independent left-wing website called Peace Data.

And we can show you some of the sort of posts that Peace Data was posting. They are what left-wing attacks on Biden and Harris from the left, which is precisely what Russia was doing in 2016 to Hillary Clinton. And not only that, this website, which got taken down a number of weeks ago, was also hiring unwitting American writers, journalists, to write --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

[09:50:05]

O'SULLIVAN: To attempt to make it appear more legitimate. So this is happening right now.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's clever.

OK, so the social media platforms, right, that are the conduit for this disinformation, they got a lot of grief post-2016 for not policing well enough. As Donie said, they're doing it more now, right? I mean they're taking down some of these sites. I just wonder, they still, though, make a lot of money, right? I mean from ads, you know often false ones, et cetera, and just general traffic.

Big picture, are the FaceBooks and Twitters, Nathan, doing a sufficient job this time around to police this kind of stuff?

NATHAN BOMEY, BUSINESS REPORTER, "USA TODAY": Well, you know, it's really difficult to say. I think after the election we'll have a better understanding of whether they have done enough. I think the problem is you have to take a step back and look at where

we've come from. We've come from a culture in this country a couple decades ago in which professional journalists largely controlled the information, the facts and the figures that most Americans came into contact with.

Now we've shifted to a culture in which we have new gatekeepers, FaceBook, Twitter and other social media algorithms, that decide what people do and do not see. And the problem is that the culture clash there is journalists put the truth first and social media algorithms put community and what your friends and family want to see first. And when that's in control, misinformation is going to continue to flourish.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, it's a vicious cycle, too, right, because the more you're in your bubble, the more it kind of generates this stuff.

OK, so, Nathan, another -- beyond the stuff coming from outside the country, right, you have enough damaging disinformation coming from inside the country from a group, for instance, such as QAnon. I mean it's a whackadoodle (ph) conspiracy theory and yet, as you've written, a lot of this BS, frankly, right, has migrated into the mainstream out of the kind of dark corners of the web.

Explain that to folks who are watching now and might not be aware of it.

BOMEY: Yes, it's very disquieting to see. I think a lot of times people do describe QAnon as a conspiracy theory, but that's not enough. In fact, one expert we talked to at "USA Today" called it a digital cult because it's a very pseudo religious organization that enthrones President Trump as this religious figure whose rooting out this evil.

And the problem is that although you may not believe in the actual basic QAnon theory that -- about the child sex trafficking ring, you are coming into contact now with some of the information that's coming into your main FaceBook news feed or Twitter feed, and that's the issue. A lot of times regular folks don't realize they're coming into contact with that content.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, just -- if folks forget, right, I mean, this is the source of the whole pizza-gate thing, this idea that Democrats have a child sex ring based in the basement of a pizza place down the street here, which, by the way, you know, I took my son to a birthday party to and then a guy shows up with a gun there, you know, weeks later. Anyway, this stuff leads to real danger.

Donie, an issue on QAnon, right, is that it is not confined to the dark corners of the web. Many messages amplified by the president himself. I mean he endorsed a candidate for Congress who is a QAnon supporter who also is a 9/11 denier, right? I mean how does that further weaponize this information when you have the commander in chief sharing some of the same disinformation?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes, exactly, Jim. And, I mean, the proponents of this conspiracy theory look at that and they look to when President Trump was asked at the podium in the White House to disavow QAnon. And when he doesn't do that, they see that as a good signal.

And, I mean, getting back to the point of these social media platforms, QAnon started three years ago in 2017, and it was only this summer, it was only over the past few weeks that both FaceBook and Twitter decided to start taking big action against QAnon.

And just like everything else, these companies are taking the action after the horse has bolted.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

O'SULLIVAN: I mean they have left the buildup to become something which has now seeped into the main stream and are only now taking action.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and after they made a bucket load of money on it, right? I mean we have to remember that, you know, finances drive this.

Nathan, I mean, another issue here, right, beyond the QAnon stuff, right, is the activity of white supremacist groups on these outlets. And we saw the result of that, right? I mean militias turning up in Kenosha and end up shooting someone, right? You know, the case of -- case of Rittenhouse. I mean FBI Director Wray very clear as the data shows that the primary domestic terrorism threat is from white supremacist groups. Of course the president himself has not called that out.

Are technology companies policing that well or no?

BOMEY: Well, I think it's pretty clear that they're not doing enough to stop it if your, you know, belief is that they should take action. And, again, it goes back to how, as journalist, we believe that the truth and the facts matter and that we need to have some sort of filter on the kind of extremism information that people can come into contact with if they are solely responsible for sorting fact from fiction.

[09:55:10]

And the problem is that in schools we don't teach kids how to do that. So people grow up and they now encounter this chaotic, wild, wild west of the digital universe and they are encountering information that they may believe is true or they may want to believe is true and they have no one else to tell them that it's not.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and sometimes they have someone as powerful as the president telling them they have every reason to believe it.

Listen, we've all got to be smarter about how we process this information and judge it.

Donie O'Sullivan, Nathan Bomey, thanks to both of you for helping us understand.

BOMEY: Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, ahead for us, pressure is growing in states like Florida to reopen schools, but teachers in south Florida say the state is being reckless about reopening. What is the best way forward? We'll talk about it ahead.

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[10:00:08]

SCIUTTO: A very good