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Sources Say, HHS Sent Heavily-Criticized Guidance on Testing to CDC, It Was Posted over Serious Objections from Scientists; Long Lines in Virginia for First Day of Early In-Person Voting; 80 Providence College Students Test Positive in Two Days. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 18, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good Friday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

This morning, a source confirms to CNN that highly criticized testing guidance that we got just about a month ago from the CDC, remember that, it said that asymptomatic people don't need to get tested unless they are part of a vulnerable population. Well, in fact, we now know that was posted over serious objections by the CDC, not written by their scientists and skipped the normal scientific review process.

That news is very alarming as 30 U.S. states are seeing a rise in COVID-19 cases, and a key model now predicts up to 20,000 new deaths over the next three weeks.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Something has taken a negative turn sadly in those numbers. Well, this as new data shows a vast majority of Americans are worried that a vaccine is being rushed to the public. Nearly half now say they will not get a vaccine when one is ready. This is a big deal. Vaccines don't work unless the population trusts them.

CNN's Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now. Okay. So tell us first about the testing guidance because this confused everyone when it happened. I mean, I was talking to Dr. Fauci on the air. Clearly, it was not in line with his thinking. How did this happen and has it been corrected since then?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It has not been corrected, and I think that we should all keep an eye on CDC website to see if they do correct it. Here's sort of the -- the narrative of what happened.

The CDC, all of a sudden, a few weeks ago, said, you know what, you don't necessarily need to get tested if you've been exposed to someone with COVID as long us a don't have symptoms.

So you've spent, you know, 15 minutes or more near someone with COVID, so you've been exposed but you don't have symptoms, you don't necessarily need to get test. And that is counter to what every expert says is, yes, you do need to get test. Get yourself tested.

So this change was made. Nobody could understand why. It just appeared on the CDC website. It was very mysterious.

And what The New York Times is reported and what our Dr. Sanjay Gupta has confirmed is that this was straight from the Department of Health and Human Services. They told the CDC basically put this on your website and the CDC sort of woke up and there it was on their website. It will be interesting to see if they switch it back.

Now, I will say that the director of the CDC Dr. Robert Redfield says that this review did get -- that this -- I'm sorry, this new guideline did get review from the proper scientific authorities. But what we're hearing is that the CDC was not involved in that review. It just kind of appeared on their website. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Wow. There's that. And I know you'll keep a close eye on that website.

Before you go, the World Health Organization warning of, their words, very serious situation in Europe in terms of spiking cases.

COHEN: Right. I mean I think we all hoped that when the numbers started to come down at different points in different parts of the world that they would just sort of go down and stay there. But you know what, this is a roller coaster ride. They go down. The numbers then go up. It depends in large part how careful people are being.

Let's take a look at what's happening in two European countries. We'll start with the U.K. In the U.K. this month, they saw 167 percent increase in positive cases. The number of people hospitalized doubles every eight days.

In France, they saw more than 10,000 new cases reported on September 13th and a 25 percent increase in ICU patients this week.

Let's take a look at the U.S., because similar kinds of things are going on here. If you look at this map, what you can see in the red states, more than half the states had more cases last week than they did the week before. Those dark red states, seven states, some more than a 50 percent increase over that one week period of time. Poppy, Jim?

HARLOW: Elizabeth, we appreciate your reporting on both fronts this morning. Thank you so much.

Let's discuss all of these developments, and there are a lot overnight, with Dr. Syra Madad, Senior Director for Special Pathogens Program at New York City's Health+ Hospitals. Good morning. Thank you, Doctor.

DR. SYRA MADAD, SENIOR DIRECTOR, SPECIAL PATHOGENS PROGRAM AT NYC HEALTH+ HOSPITALS: Good morning. Thanks for having me.

HARLOW: What do you think the implications are of the fact that that CDC guidance still exists and clearly was not vetted thoroughly by their own scientists that only, you know, symptomatic people should be getting tested? What does that mean?

MADAD: That means that the political interference is ongoing. So you think that, you know, after there was a huge uproar from the medical and scientific community that we're not supposed to be doing things like this, you need to let science and evidence and the scientific process that we've established be kind of the frontrunner. It's basically showing that that's taking a back seat and that political interference is what we're dealing with.

And this is the most crucial time that we really need to make sure that we're putting trust in these agencies and these representatives because, you know, we know that a vaccine is close to being rolled out, you know, in the coming months to maybe sometime next year.

[10:05:05]

And this is exactly when we need to make sure that we are putting the trust in those agencies so people are actually willing to take these vaccines.

HARLOW: When you look at that, I just wonder if you think it's too far a jump to make -- to ask the question of does it cost lives. Because if you don't test as much, you don't know all the cases out there, but they are still out there. And if someone doesn't know, then they will go and they will interact at least a bit more with others.

MADAD: Absolutely. So that recommendation is absolutely not based on science. It's not based on epidemiology. We know that anybody that has come in close contact with somebody that is even suspected or confirmed to have COVID-19 needs to get tested, needs to quarantine. That is how we're going to get this pandemic under control. And we know that asymptomatic spread is one of the primary drivers of this pandemic.

And so to have, you know, a guidance that completely counters that is just mind-boggling. And, really, it just shows you, it's not based on science, and so it's really important that we go with the facts.

You know, I think -- another thing to potentially just highlight is the number we're seeing just in the past few weeks, the political interference of not just the guidance, but you're seeing the MMWR, you know, kind of epidemiological bible for many of us, you know, being implicated and basically trying to rewrite some of those articles, if you will.

And this is absolutely ridiculous. I mean, you cannot do things like this that completely undermine the entire medical community and public health community.

HARLOW: The fact that the Pew numbers show that only 51 percent of Americans say they would get a vaccine if it were available today, a 21-point drop since May, that is staggering in and of itself. What needs to be done and by whom to convince most Americans of the safety once a vaccine is FDA-approved?

MADAD: Well, I think that, first and foremost, you're seeing a lot of dates being thrown out that a vaccine will be available by October, by November, by December. And, you know, it's not the date that, you know, that's going to dictate when this is available. It's real the data. And so we need to make sure that we have appropriate readouts and benchmarks when this vaccine is made available.

And so once that data is available, you want to then make sure that, you know, along with it, you're having a very strong public health and educational campaign. And this is where you want to bring a trusted leader from the community, not just public health leaders but also the community, religious leaders that have a very significant role to play that have that trust in, you know, their population and their community that can help, you know, show that this vaccine is safe and effective once that data is available.

So there's a lot that needs to happen between now and when this vaccine is available, not just on the public messaging end but also on the logistic end. There's a lot of hurdles that you need to overcome. There's this huge financial implication behind this and we need funding for this.

HARLOW: Dr. Syra Madad, good to have you. Thank you.

MADAD: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: So, also this morning, the White House is playing defense this time against stunning criticism that is now coming directly from a woman who worked just weeks ago in a central role on the coronavirus task force.

SCIUTTO: Listen, Trump administration, Trump appointee, key role in the coronavirus response. CNN's John Harwood joins us now from the White House.

She was top aide in particular to the vice president. The White House again using this word, disgruntled. You've been covering that building for some time. It's a dismissal they have used for a whole host of senior Trump administration officials from the Mattises to Kellys to Troye in this case. And yet they all have the same criticism, do they not?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Jim. And that's the point. The number of disgruntled former employees, aides, associates is getting longer and longer and reaching higher and higher into the most important jobs and the most important issues facing the administration.

Olivia Troye, of course, was an aide to Mike Pence on the coronavirus task force, which is the number one issue in the election. We can all see from the deaths and case counts that the administration's response has been inadequate.

But Olivia Troye is someone who saw President Trump operate behind the scenes and what she saw disturbed her.

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OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER AIDE TO MIKE PENCE: It was shocking to see the president saying that the virus was a hoax, saying that everything is okay when we know that it's not. The truth is he doesn't actually care about anyone else but himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: Now, the thing to remember is that people like Jim Mattis, John Bolton, John Kelly, Miles Taylor from the Department of Homeland Security, and Olivia Troye, all essentially telling the same story of a president consumed almost exclusively with himself, unable or unwilling to do the basic responsibilities of the job as president, which is to process information, make decisions, take responsibility.

[10:10:11]

Instead, what the president is try to talk his way out of problems, and if you can't do, that blame other people. He's shown that himself in public this week at the town hall where he said the virus -- repeated that the virus is going to go away. His efforts to say that we're doing a great job except for those blue states. Olivia Troye is the latest in the people coming out and telling this story, but there is no indication, guys, that she is going to be the last to speak out.

HARLOW: Yes, that's a good point. John Harwood, thanks a lot for the reporting from the White House.

Election Day just days away, 46 days away. But in-person voting actually begins today in several key states. Take a look at the lines already forming. That's in Fairfax, Virginia this morning. Much more during a live report.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You think folks are interested in this election, 2020?

Plus, a new report shows as many as 51 percent of all school employees have an increased risk of COVID-19 infection. And as pressure grows on some Florida schools to reopen, teachers there are making it clear they are worried. We're going to speak to one.

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HARLOW: Take a look at this. This is a line already this morning. Why? It's the first day of early in-person voting in Virginia. Dozens of people have already lined up to fill out their ballots.

SCIUTTO: In-person voting also begins today in Minnesota, South Dakota and Wyoming.

Let's begin though in Virginia. CNN's Kristen Holmes is at a polling place in Fairfax. Kristen, you know, beyond the interest this shows at this stage, you know, the turnout is incredible in the midst of a pandemic, right? I mean, you see folks there in masks. They are distancing but clearly getting over that fear, it seems.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's absolutely right, Jim. And I just want to step out here so you can see just how far back this line goes. I mean, it's about two football fields here. Keep in mind, this is a huge government building in Fairfax, Virginia, the biggest county here, and they are at capacity inside of the building.

Now, they are trying to keep people outside socially distance, but as you can see, it is difficult particularly given the fact that this line is so enormous. And once they actually get inside the building, there is still at least an hour and a half wait.

Now, we have talked to several of these voters about why it is that they chose to show up early. Many of them saying they knew it was going to be a very big election, that it was critical, that there was going to be a lot of interest, they wanted to be one of the first people to cast their ballot. But we also heard about mistrust of the Postal Service. Take a listen to this.

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JIM O'CONNER, VIRGINIA VOTER: I don't trust the mail right now. That's why.

HOLMES: And so that's why you decided vote in-person?

O'CONNER: If I've got to stand here all day, I'm going to vote today.

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HOLMES: And I will say, we have heard that over and over again, particularly if people have to stand here all day, they will, several people already waiting more than two hours to cast their ballot.

And it is so important to keep in mind that this is a rolling process. They do not have to cast their ballot today. They are choosing to do so. They want to get out there. They want to have their say, and a lot of them want to actually see their ballot being cast. They don't believe that the mail system is working right now. They believe it's broken, and they are too scared to submit their ballot that way.

And just to give you an idea of how unprecedented that is here, I spoke to someone who has been working at elections here in Virginia for 20 years, and she said she's never seen any sort of a turnout like this. They expected a small crowd. Usually when absentee in-person begins, it's 10 or 20 people, nothing like this, hundreds and hundreds of people lined up here.

SCIUTTO: Well, you know, I think people want their votes counted, right? They are concerned. They want their votes counted. Kristen Holmes, good to have you there. We're going to continue to follow this.

So, where does this election stand 46 days out, can you believe it? Both the president and Joe Biden are in the crucial swing state of Minnesota today. We'll follow it there.

HARLOW: Our Jessica Dean is in Duluth ahead of Joe Biden's stop there. Our Senior Political Writer and Analyst, Harry Enten, joins us as well.

The president is going to be in Bemidji. So it's interesting, they're not in the twin cities. They are more in rural parts of the state.

Jessica, let me begin with you. So, I mean, it's increasingly become a battleground state. What are we expecting to hear from both the president and Joe Biden today?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to you, Jim and Poppy. Yes, he will be in Duluth, Minnesota, today, about 150 miles from where President Trump will be tonight. And as you both noted, early in-person voting starts in Minnesota today. So no coincidence that they are here on the ground talking to voters, and, really, Joe Biden especially targeting white working class voters.

We heard him at our town hall last night really defining this race as his Scranton roots versus President Trump's Park Avenue. Take a listen.

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JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I really do view this campaign as a campaign between Scranton and Park Avenue. And I really mean it, because, you know, the way we were raised up here in this area, awful lot of hard working people busting their neck, all they asked for is a shot, just a shot. All that Trump could see from Park Avenue is Wall Street. All he thinks is about the stock market.

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DEAN: And pay attention too to where Joe Biden has been travel in the last week. He has been to Scranton, Pennsylvania, last night. He's going to be here in Duluth, Minnesota. He went to Michigan. He is taking that message of his working class roots to the small rural communities that he wants to talk to and really get the support of white working class voters, voters that may have gone to President Trump last time.

[10:20:09]

The Biden campaign believes that Joe Biden is uniquely positioned as Middle Class Joe to really draw their support. He will be at a carpenter union hall today. He has been talking to different unions, car manufacturers in Michigan. We can expect more of this type of messaging, Jim and Poppy, as we get ever closer to Election Day.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, you can tell where the candidates think the election is going to be decided based on where they show up.

Harry Enten, 46 days out, number one question on many people's minds is where does this race stand? I'm not asking you to look at a crystal ball, just look at the data as we have it. HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes. I mean, look, here is where the race stands. Joe Biden is ahead. And you can see that nationally where he's up seven points, but you can also look at the six closest swing states that Donald Trump won in 2016. And what you see in the polling averages is that Biden is ahead in all six of those.

Now, some of those are very close, like North Carolina and Florida, but here is the key nugget, right? If you look at Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, Biden has leads of at least five points in all those places.

And, indeed, Biden's easiest path to win this entire thing, to get to the 270 electoral votes is pretty gosh darn clear, he does not in fact need either Florida nor does he need Pennsylvania. He can get to 270 electoral votes merely by winning Michigan, Wisconsin and Arizona. And right now, he has leads of five points or more in all of them.

HARLOW: Jessica, since you're on the ground there, I would like your take there on Minnesota because you've got parts of the state, the northeast that have become markedly more conservative in recent years. Two Republicans picked up House seats there in the midterms.

You've also got a huge refugee population. You've also got the place where George Floyd was killed by police sparking all of these protests. And you've got a city where protests, you know, broke out for weeks on end. You had the police station burned there. So I guess there's all of these different dynamics playing in that each of the candidates will talk about differently. And I wonder what you're hearing on the ground there.

DEAN: Yes, Poppy, you're exactly right. I actually did the drive from Minneapolis up to Duluth last night.

HARLOW: Yes, striking, right?

DEAN: And just kind of taking a look at the billboards -- yes, right, just taking a look at the billboards, taking a look at kind of the signage. Everyone always talks about political signs, that sort of thing. And you really do see a mix as you go up the interstate.

And you can certainly tell, Poppy, again, it was the same thing when we were in Pennsylvania last week with Vice President Biden. He went right into Trump country there and then also in Macomb County as well. And so we see Vice President Biden going into these counties that maybe did trend toward President Trump, where Hillary Clinton didn't perform as people thought she would in 2016. And the Biden campaign really thinking this message is going to connect with people here on the ground.

SCIUTTO: Harry Enten, when we see interest in early voting, like we're seeing in a place such as Virginia today, does it favor either candidate?

ENTEN: I don't think it necessarily Does. I mean, look, obviously, we know from the polling that Democrats say they are more likely to vote early, especially by mail, but, of course, voting, whenever you vote as long as you vote by Election Day, it all counts the same.

But what I will say, Jim, is it does indicate a lot of interest in this election, which is the same that the polls say. I think we're going to see record turnout, you know, for a long period of time, certainly as long as I have been alive. And I think we could can be looking at more than 150 million people voting.

So the American people are going to go out there and they're going to have their say.

SCIUTTO: That's good, right? That's good. More people vote. It's all of our responsibility.

Jessica Dean, Harry Enten, thanks to both of you.

ENTEN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, a push to reopen schools in South Florida has some of the teachers there on edge. What do they need to see to feel safe enough to return to classrooms? The head of the Broward County Teachers Union will join me next.

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[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Well, as they have been opening up colleges and universities have been experiencing coronavirus outbreaks, the latest, Providence College in Rhode Island, that school is temporarily moving to remote learning after more than 80 students tested positive in just the last few days.

HARLOW: Our Senior Global Affairs Analyst, Bianna Golodryga, who has been covering education very closely, has more on this.

So, what have you learned, and I assume they can't send these kids home, right, because they don't want to spread it?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: No, and that's what every leading doctor has said. If you have a case on campus, you've got to keep it on campus. And that's why you have this new mandate from Providence College, those 80 students tested positive, so they are going to move to online learning through at least next Saturday.

And what that means for everybody else on campus is they have to be on lockdown. Students who live on campus can't leave their apartments and they will have access to testing. Those that live off campus need to stay at home as well.

And you've got to remind yourself that this is a population where they have seen a real decline in positivity.

[10:30:00]

They have a positive rate of about 1 percent and 4,400 students in Providence. So they are clearly wanting to capture this and contain it as soon as.