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Global Coronavirus Case Count Eclipses 30 Million; Trump, Biden Tell Conflicting Coronavirus Narratives; Source: CDC Guidelines on Tested Posted Last Month By HHS, Not CDC Scientists; Ex-Pence Aide: Trump "Doesn't Actually Care about Anyone Else"; Biden's New Effort to Win Over Working-Class Voters. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 18, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Maybe all the money they spend on those parties ever year could be donated to the fire-relief efforts.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

HARLOW: And folks that lost their homes and need it there. Just an idea.

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: First responders, all of them.

HARLOW: Yes.

Thank you.

Thanks for joining us, everyone. Have a great weekend. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

"NEWSROOM" with our colleague, John King, starts right now.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you so much for sharing your day with us.

Today, both the president and the Democratic nominee campaign in Minnesota. Last night, at a CNN town hall, Joe Biden borrowing from his biography to frame the November choice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I really do view this campaign as a campaign between Scranton and Park Avenue. All that Trump could see from Park Avenue is Wall Street. All he thinks about is the stock market.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: Much more on the state of the 2020 race ahead.

But we begin this hour with a numbing global milestone. The worldwide coronavirus case count crossing 30 million infections.

The United States tops the global charts in both cases and deaths, which will soon number 200,000 American lives lost.

The nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, says it is possible to avoid what he calls a fall double whammy. That is good news.

This though more worrisome. The U.S. added 44,000-plus new cases yesterday on Thursday. And the seven-day average of new cases is creeping back up. Yet, the president says we have rounded are the final corner.

New reporting today proves, sadly, it isn't just the president's words that put politics over the coronavirus reality. Politics, not science, we are told, was behind changes to critical CDC guidelines about who should get tested.

A source telling CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta the guidelines posted last month came from political officials inside the Department of Health and Human Services, not CDC scientists.

The recommendations also did not go through the normal review process, which includes CDC scientists and fact-checkers. Those changes were uploaded to the agency's Web site in the dead of night.

Let's take a closer look now at some of the trends. And we'll bring in Dr. Gupta to talk about some of the news.

If you look at the map -- I'll put the paper down. This paper has taken a decided turn for the worse, a decided turn for the worse. The president says we've rounded are the final corner. This is a turn for the worse.

And 30 states now reporting -- you see them in red and orange -- 30 of the 50 states reporting more now infections this week compared to the data last week.

That is not turning the final corner. This is turning in the wrong direction. And 30 states trending in the wrong direction. And we know when cases go up deaths follow.

Right now, 23 states -- you see them there again -- orange and red. Some in the deep red. The deeper the red, that means 50 percent more deaths this week than last week. Orange is between 10 percent and 50 percent more this week than last week.

And 23 states trending in the wrong way when it comes to the coronavirus death counts. That's not turning the final corner.

So here's the big question. Where are we headed? Summer surge, started to come down, got below 40. Thursday, yesterday, almost 45,000 new infections just yesterday.

We're starting now to get the sense what have happened on Labor Day. Will we have another post-holiday spike? Next week we'll know more.

But you do see -- look at that line, red line heading up. Red line heading back up. Plateaued around 40,000 and dipped below it and now heading back up. A dangerous turn. Let's watch it to see if it's a blip or if it continues.

But, if you look here, when cases go up, deaths tend to follow.

Finally, we've gotten -- this is the blue line, the seven-day average of deaths. Finally had it shoved down below 1,000 and you're seeing it's trickling back up. Still in the ballpark.

And 870,000 Americans died yesterday from the coronavirus. Still in the ballpark of 1,000. The question is, can you push it down. At the moment, it appears to be trending back up.

And here's the problem map. On this map, the lighter the better. See all this dark blue? That means double-digit positivity.

And we know how this works. We've been through it for seven months. Higher positive rate today leads to more cases tomorrow. And wait for three weeks and the death total goes up.

Look at the double-digit positivity. Florida, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi near 20. Kansas at 15. And out here in the heartland, 15 percent South Dakota, 11 percent Nebraska, 15 Wisconsin, 14 percent Iowa, 16 percent Idaho, 15 percent Utah.

Double-digit positivity, we know where that takes you. Higher positivity today is more cases tomorrow.

Because of this map, the CDC, despite what the president says, now increasing its projected death total. It says 218,000 Americans will die of coronavirus by October 10th. We're approaching 200,000 already.

That number, they say, by the middle of October, by the middle of October. You can see that number right there. I don't want to repeat it. More than 197,000.

So what you have right now is bad numbers in the late weeks of the campaign.

Last night, on the trail, the president in Wisconsin, Joe Biden in Pennsylvania, trying to frame how you should vote when you think about this pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're doing great. We're doing great with vaccines and therapeutics, Remdesivir, all sorts of other things that are bringing the rates down, like, at numbers that nobody can believe.

BIDEN: We have to make sure that we lay out to the American people the truth. Tell them the truth.

[11:05:01]

He doesn't want to see anything happen. It's all about his re- election. It should be about the American people, and they are in trouble.

This president should step down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's turn now for more on that damning revelation about the controversial guidelines on who should get tested for the coronavirus.

A source confirming CDC scientists did not write the recommendations nor did the recommendations go through the normal vetting process.

Here to discuss what this means, our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, this is politics, forgive the word, trumping science.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No question about it. I mean, you know, we've been sort of talking to sources within the CDC and task force for some time now, and it's just as you laid out, John.

Let me just remind people. We can show on August 24th, there was a change that showed up on the CDC's Web site, and it specifically had to do with people who have had close contact with someone subsequently diagnosed with COVID.

We can put that up and show you what the guideline change was. Basically, said you do not necessarily need a test unless you are a vulnerable individual or your health care provider recommends you take one.

That was a significant change, John, because we've known for some time now that people without symptoms can spread this virus and they do.

According to some studies, about half of the spread in this country is coming from people who don't have symptoms at the time they spread the virus.

We asked the CDC about it at the time and asked them again yesterday. And quickly want to put up their response to this, the response that the guidance on the site did not follow the data.

And what they basically said at that point was that "The guidelines were coordinated in conjunction with the White House Coronavirus Task Force, received appropriate attention, consultation, and input from task force experts."

That's what they say.

John, here's what we know happened. There was guidance that was sent over to the CDC that did not originate from the CDC.

It was supposed to go through a vetting process that involved an assistant director of science, fact-checkers and cross-checkers. It's quite an extensive vetting process.

The documents started to go through that process. My source says, the next morning, woke up, and basically the unaltered document that was all of all these -- this incorrect guidance just showed up on the Web site.

It did not go through the vetting process, did not originate from the CDC.

And this person who called me was very alarmed by this and says it's happened before, not only with the asymptomatic testing issue but also with many of the school guidance issue that came out several weeks earlier.

KING: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, appreciate that very important news.

And I'll just say it right here. That guidance suggested fewer people get tested. Fewer people get tested, you have fewer positive results, so the numbers are lower, which is what the president wants heading into the election.

It doesn't mean they are really lower. It means what we know. It just means the coronavirus is out there but we don't know it.

Sanjay, very important reporting. Appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Let's continue the conversation now. Margaret Talev, of "Axios," joins us and Lisa Lerer, of "The New York Times."

Margaret, I just want to start with you.

Because, as Sanjay noted, this is not the first time the CDC or other agencies in the government, where science normally carries the day, where you have processes in place to run things two times, three times, four times past the scientists and past the fact-checkers, have been twisted in this administration.

Because the calendar and the pandemic, in the president's mind, are not in sync because of the election.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: John, that's right. And in retrospect now we know this has been true since late January when Peter Navarro was privately telling the president, you could have a couple million people in terms of casualties here.

And I think that's what we're seeing now, with Olivia Troye coming forward, is a recognition and some level of a speaking out from folks who have been behind the scenes and understand what has actually been going on.

KING: And so let's listen to Olivia Troye, Lisa. She's a former aide to Vice President Pence, who worked on the Coronavirus Task Force.

Her Republican lineage goes back to working for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld so no question she's a Republican policy aide. She's left the administration.

And she says -- listen to her in her own voice here -- that the Coronavirus Task Force was trying to do its job, that the vice president was trying to do his job, that they were trying to take this seriously, but.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER AIDE TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Towards the middle of February, we knew it wasn't a matter of if COVID of would become a big pandemic in the United States. It was a matter of when.

But the president didn't want to hear that because his biggest concern was that we were in an election here and how was this going to affect what he considered to be his record of success.

The truth is he doesn't actually care about anyone else but himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: From the White House now, Lisa, you get disgruntled employees. She left. Her resignation letter was quite complimentary.

What is the power of that, a Republican who worked inside the Coronavirus Task Force, saying we were trying to do our job and the president just wanted to win re-election?

[11:10:02]

LISA LERER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There's been a big push from Republicans who are unhappy with the president to come out and say that they don't believe he should be re-elected.

Most often, we've seen people in the White House come out through anonymous quotes or through tell-all books. They try to monetize their experience in some way or protect themselves.

So what she's doing is fairly brave. She will get attacked for this. There's no question about that.

Now whether it moves the president's base is a very different question. It's hard to see that happening, given how much of a hold the president has on his base.

But it is another headwind for president as he tries to win over or win back Independent voters, win people who maybe didn't vote in 2016 or voted third party.

This isn't the kind of thing a president running for re-election wants to come out less than two months before Election Day.

KING: And so we're just told the president now plans a 2:00 press conference today, press briefing at the White House. This is part of his strategy.

But he knows -- and we're going to talk about this later in the program. He knows, if you look at the battleground states, he's trailing in the polls.

He knows, six weeks to go, six-plus weeks, right now, the election is tilted, the map is tilted heavily in favor of Joe Biden's favor.

So the president is trying every day to do something every day to do something, which means also he has to answer questions about Olivia Troye, about the uptick in infections, even though he says we've turned the final corner.

And, Margaret, the vice president, last night at his CNN town hall in Pennsylvania -- we just talked about the CDC guidelines done relatively recently.

The vice president says listen to the Woodward recordings, what the president was telling Bob Woodward at the time he was telling the Americans something different.

Vice President Biden making the case, from the very early days of this pandemic, that the president has put his interests ahead of yours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Back in March, I was calling for the need for us to have masks, have the president stand and tell us what's going on. But he knew it. He knew it and did nothing. It's close to criminal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: At the moment, if you look, especially when you go through the battleground state polling, a majority of voters tend to agree with the former vice president. They may not choose that word.

But president's handling of the coronavirus is the biggest source of his problem right now.

TALEV: Well, yes. I mean, and that's what Biden is driving into.

If you look at the contours of this race though, the president's message on the economy, which is what Biden is trying to say, like he cares more about the economy than he does about your health.

But there are also many voters who think that the economy is a more pressing concern than the pandemic. And it tends to be because of their proximity or lack of proximity to the impacts of the pandemic.

So in the key states -- I mean, every state matters. Every state is key and every vote matters. But in the states that we think of as the most key, this really is fundamentally a question.

It's a referendum on President Trump. Do you think he's prioritizing public safety and concern for the American people above his own kind of base political needs or do you think that he is prioritizing the economy because he cares the most about the American people?

And this is the very nuanced question where Biden has to drive hard into what we're seeing with the politicization of science and all of this.

But he also has to acknowledge that he cares about the economy.

And in Pennsylvania, in particular, on some of these issues like fracking, some of these issues like working-class mentality, he has to get his messaging straight.

And you can see him working on this in terms of trying to say I'm common man. President Trump, is you know, Park Avenue. But this is more complicated than it looks. And we saw some threads of that in this town hall last night.

KING: It is more -- coalition-building is very complicated. And the vice president trying to thread a needle in some ways.

We call out the president sometimes, we call out the president often when he says things that simply aren't true.

And if you're the former vice president, Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee, you're trying to make the case that the president can't get his facts straight when it comes to the pandemic, then he has a responsibility to get his straight, too.

This was the case of the former vice president being off. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: His own CDC director contradicted him recently. He said, if, in fact, you just wore this mask, nothing else but this mask, you would save between now and January another 100,000 lives.

And so we have to be honest with the American people. They are tough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Redfield did not use a number.

He did hold up his mask at a congressional hearing and say it was by far the best weapon, especially right now without a vaccine, against the coronavirus.

He actually said it would be just as good a weapon even if we did have a vaccine.

But, Lisa, he did not use the number.

The Biden campaign said the former vice president was maybe confusing things that the IHME model does say, that if more people wore masks, they would save around 100,000 lives.

My point being, if we're going to call out the president, he needs to be careful as well. LERER: Of course. We -- that's our job. And we want all candidates to

say things that are truthful and factual. And if they don't, we're going to hold them accountable.

But I do think there's a dynamic here where the president lowered expectations for Biden so much over the summer. I mean, listening to the president, you would think that Joe Biden couldn't even string a sentence together.

[11:15:02]

And it was a strategy that was confusing to Democrats but also to some Republicans, who want to see Trump re-elected.

Because if you lower expectations so much for your opponent, if they get up there and can just answer a question with some fluency, they are exceeding the bar the president has set. Joe Biden is exceeding the bar that the president has set.

So I think we saw some of that dynamic at play last night, where voters that are just tuning in now, which is, let's be honest, most voters expect to see a Joe Biden that can't quite keep it together. And instead, they see someone who can have some policy fluency.

KING: We are heading into the final weeks. You're right, most people who are business and extra busy and stressed in the pandemic, just starting to tune. A little preview of the debate last night, without a doubt, the debates.

Lisa Lerer, Margaret Talev, grateful for the reporting and the insights. Thank you so much.

Up next for us, we continue the conversation. Joe Biden's new effort to win over working-class voters.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:20:16]

KING: Joe Biden sees his blue-collar Scranton roots as a way to cut into President Trump's appeal with white working-class voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I really do view this campaign as a campaign between Scranton and Park Avenue. And I really mean it.

Because, you know, the way we were raised up here in this area, an awful lot of hard-working people busting their neck. All they asked for is a shot, just a shot.

All that Trump can see from Park Avenue is Wall Street. All he thinks about is the stock market. Telling, we're going to do all right, everybody owns stock.

How many of you all own stock in Scranton? In my neighborhood in Scranton, not a whole hell of a lot of people own stock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: But coalitions are complicated. And Biden must also be mindful that to avoid a 2016 repeat, Democrats need enthusiastic support from African-Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Do you see ways that you've benefited from white privilege?

BIDEN: Sure. I've benefited just because I don't have to go through what my black brothers and sisters have had to go through, number one.

But, number two, grow up here in Scranton. We're used to guys who look down their nose at us. We look to people who look at us and think that we're suckers. Look at us and they think that we don't -- we were not equivalent to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: CNN political commentator, Democratic strategist, Angela Rye, joins us now.

Angela, so coalitions are complicated, the point I made at the top, and everybody looks at things from a different perspective.

You know the conversation right now among some Democrats, is the Biden campaign doing enough to motivate African-American turnout, is the Biden campaign doing enough especially with African-American men.

If you look at 2016, you can see why Democrats would be concerned about that.

When you watch a town hall last night, it's in blue-collar Scranton, aimed primarily in that community at white working-class voters.

But did you see what you need to see on the broader coalition questions?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the campaign still has a lot of work to do. And I think, in the recent weeks, they have made a number of strides.

By the way, John, happy National Black Voter Day. It is a new thing, but it is happening.

And, you know, today is a great opportunity and a great day for the campaign to do several things.

I think the first thing that the campaign should do and really must do, there was an agenda released last year from Black to the Future. It's called the Black Agenda 2020.

And that agenda includes specific bills that should be passed, specific priorities from talking to 30,000 black people all over the country.

It's the work of Alicia Garza, who is also co-creator of Black Lives Matter.

That's something they can immediately do. They should immediately be in conversation with the movement for black lives -- I understand there have been some conversations -- but to talk about a path forward.

When we start talking about an agenda for black people and what will move folks to the polls, it's always true that black people are issue voters. And you're not likely to just get energizing, invigoration around a ticket alone. There has to be policy that bolsters that.

I'm a tremendous Kamala Harris fan. And the reason for that is I know that we're in alignment on issues.

And I think that this is the time for Joe Biden to bridge the gap from his past to the present and to the future.

What are the bills that he will immediately sign into law when Congress passes them as president? Those are many so of the commitments that he can be making.

At the town hall last night, when talking about police violence, Joe Biden was just a hair shy of saying that he would sign Justice in Policing into law.

Justice in Policing is a bill that Kamala Harris championed and led on the Senate side. It has not yet passed the Senate but it did pass the House.

Those are the types of substantive commitments he can make.

It's not enough to say that he can empathize with his black brothers and sisters.

I think it's more important that he says, I know I've benefitted from white privilege. I know that policy-making tends to benefit those who look like me, but here are the things that I know I need to do to shore up support from people who do not.

KING: Let's listen to some of that then because you mentioned his past. And for those old enough to remember or those who want to use the Internet to look it up, Joe Biden gets skepticism in the African- American community because of his support back in 1994 for the crime bill, but some other things, too, but that's the big one.

He's also -- he faced some resistance in the primaries for this. The Trump campaign tried to Joe Biden is for defunding police. He is not.

Listen here. Here's both the president and Joe Biden on the issue of race and policing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I do feel that we also have to take into consideration that, if you look at our police -- they do a phenomenal job -- you'll have people choke, make mistakes. And they happen. It happens where they have to make a fast decision and some bad things happen.

[11:25:04]

BIDEN: Very few white parents have to turn to say to their kid, once they get their license, make sure if you're pulled over, put both hands on top of the wheel, don't reach for the glove box, make sure you do whatever the police officer says.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Your take on that? If I'm hearing you right, that's good but not good enough?

RYE: I was actually referencing another part of the answer. I think that that part of the answer demonstrates that Joe Biden has certainly been in communication with folks in the black community.

The talk is a very real thing. Of course, it was referenced in the question. It's something that I have to talk to my godsons, who are 10 and 16, about. And 10 years old.

My godson, just the other day told me -- I said are you afraid of the police, and he said, no, not yet. And I said when do you think you'll become afraid of the police? He said probably about 13. That's a very dangerous thing, right?

And I understand certainly that Donald Trump has no concept for what is problematic about police behavior.

But we also have to get rid of this narrative that it's about a few bad apples that spoil the whole bunch. It's about bad systems and systems that have to be overhauled.

The one recommendation I would give the Joe Biden campaign is that you can't continue to reference the 21st Century Council on Policing as the path forward. It was great in 2014. Now we need 2020 solutions.

KING: Angela Rye, appreciate your insights. We'll continue the conversation in the final six weeks of a more than interesting campaign.

And to that point Joe Biden and Donald Trump face off. The first presidential debate is 11 days from now. You can watch, you should watch it all play out live right here on CNN. Our special coverage starts Tuesday night, September 29th at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Coming up for us, you see some live pictures now. More states, beginning today, allow in-person early voting. Look at that. That's democracy at work. Long lines. That's amazing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)