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Trump Administration Continues to Confuse COVID-19 Science; Flu Season May Be Mild This Year; Olivia Troye Endorses Joe Biden. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 18, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

WESLEY BLACK, COMBAT VETERAN WITH STAGE FOUR CANCER: And I'm essentially -- you're essentially looking at a dead man walking.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Now, you can find that story on CNN.com/Homefront. Please e-mail questions, comments and also story ideas to Homefront@CNN.com.

It is the top of the hour, I am Brianna Keilar. And any moment now, we're expecting President Trump to speak to reporters at the White House. We will be listening live to that.

And there is a lot that the president has to answer for because there is plenty of evidence this week that the Trump administration is manipulating what you see and hear in the middle of a global pandemic.

For starters, CNN confirmed that the Trump administration sent the CDC a document of controversial guidance that people without coronavirus symptoms don't need to get tested even if they've been exposed to someone with coronavirus. Well, we're now learning it was published, despite objections from CDC scientists. And then moments ago -- just moments ago -- the original guidance, based on science, was restored to the site.

The president also demeaned and dismissed the CDC director's testimony under oath that masks may be even more important than a vaccine, and that a vaccine likely won't reach the general public until next summer.

A former top aide to Vice President Pence on the Task Force, who had been there since the beginning, has resigned and is accusing the president of a flat-out disregard for human life, saying that the response was all about the election, not public health.

And we're also learning that the White House nixed a plan to send 650 million masks to Americans in April through the mail because they said they didn't want to spark panic.

And then on the post office, a federal judge just rebuked the president and his postmaster general for, quote, "a politically motivated attack to make changes to the service that could disrupt the 2020 election." I want to bring in CNN's chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta. Jim, we're waiting for this news conference to get under way. What are you expecting to hear from the president as he's facing this onslaught of negative headlines?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, it is an onslaught, but the White House press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, just said a little while ago that the president is expected to give an update on the development of a coronavirus vaccine, how the administration plans to distribute it.

She was saying on "Fox Business" earlier this morning that they are still looking at a target of trying to get vaccines distributed by the end of the year, and hopefully have a vaccine as early as October.

That is echoing essentially what the president has said all along about his expectations for a vaccine. Of course, those comments from the president, from the White House press secretary don't exactly line up with some of the cautionary language we're hearing from people like Dr. Anthony Fauci, Dr. Robert Redfield, who have cautioned that yes, while we may see a vaccine by the end of the year, it's going to take many months for it to be distributed and for the public to be fully vaccinated, to start warding off COVID-19.

But as you were just saying a few moments ago, Brianna, ticking through all these various examples, the president and his team sort of politically meddling in this COVID-19 response. There's a lot to answer for.

And so I suspect the president will be asked about this proposal that was first reported on in "The Washington Post" that the U.S. Postal Service was being looked at to distribute hundreds of millions of masks around the country but the White House nixed that because they didn't want to cause a panic.

The president, I was standing right next to a reporter yesterday at a departure on the South Lawn of the White House, where a reporter tried to ask the president about that. The president claimed to not hear the question.

The other thing we should point out, Brianna, is this whole issue at the CDC, and how its website was changed. Essentially, HHS was injecting language into the CDC website, dictating, you know, guidelines for when people should be tested for the coronavirus, saying that asymptomatic people might not need to be tested.

Well just in the last several minutes, the CDC has reversed that. The administration has reversed that, and guidelines have gone onto the CDC website, saying asymptomatic people should be tested because obviously, as we've known all along -- we've heard from Dr. Fauci -- asymptomatic people pose a very serious threat to spreading the coronavirus around the country.

And so it's almost, you know, Brianna, a -- you know, catch-us-if- you-can atmosphere over here at the White House, where you see instances time and again, the president and his team attempting to politically meddle in the COVID-19 response to advantage the president politically with the election coming up, and sort of getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar from time to time as these things get reported out -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Jim, thank you so much for that report, live for us there from the North Lawn of the White House.

Dr. Rohini Raj is an associate professor of medicine at NYU Langone Health and a contributing medical editor at "Health Magazine" as well. Doctor, it's great to see you again. And I want to start with the CDC testing guidance that was published over the objection of CDC scientists.

[14:05:06]

It was strange when it went out, wasn't it? That the idea that people might be exposed to someone with coronavirus, but that didn't mean you need to get tested. And now we have learned that the web page has just changed back. How significant is this, that the CDC was essentially railroaded by political appointees changing this, and also now that it's back where it should be?

ROSHINI RAJ, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, NYU LANGONE HEALTH: You know, it's very frustrating to hear all of this, and it was very surprising when that CDC recommendation came out against testing asymptomatic individuals because as we learned very quickly about this virus, the asymptomatic spread was a very real factor, particularly in this country. So it was very odd when that happened. And now, we're hearing that maybe there was some political motivation for it.

You know, what's frustrating, Brianna, is that already this virus is so, you know, diabolical in so many ways, in the sense that it's new, we don't know a lot about it, our knowledge is evolving and changing. So it's already difficult to get a handle on this virus without the political, you know, machinery getting involved.

And so when you add that layer on, it really makes it difficult for the trusted health officials to spread the correct information and for the public to have confidence in that information. And that's going to be -- it already is a real issue when it comes to people wearing masks and some people not believing that masks work, or even the social distancing.

But particularly when the vaccine comes, the fact that many people are going to be unsure about its safety, its efficacy, whether or not they should get it. We already have a distrust of vaccines in some sectors of this country, and all of this conflicting information and questions of political motivation are really hampering the efforts to take control of this virus and get back to our normal way of living.

KEILAR: I wonder what you think as a medical professional, and you're watching some of -- look, the voices in this administration that are guided by science like the CDC director.

Because on the one hand, you know, I've heard scientists argue -- and I think it's something you can definitely relate to, this idea that it's so important these people stay in their positions, that they're a counterweight to anti-science advocates. But then on the other --

RAJ: Yes.

KEILAR: -- hand, there's this point of, like, at what point are they enabling misinformation, at what point do they need to resign and actually resigning could signal something more significant than them staying in their position? Where is the line, do you think, or should it be for the current CDC director Robert Redfield?

RAJ: I think for all of the top health officials, you know, when we're in the field of science or in medicine, there are no kind of spins or -- it's very clear and black and white. We don't know all the answers necessarily, but we need to be honest about that and honest about what we do know.

And whenever you're feeling pressure or an inability to really convey that clear information, lives are at stake. And in this case, millions of lives are at stake. So I do think, you know, possibly resigning is -- might be the best course of action for people who feel like they can't get the proper information out there because you really are risking people's lives when you're giving them the wrong information.

You know, we have the top health officials in the world now being questioned by a lot of the population because things are changing and we're hearing that there's been pressure put on certain individuals.

We had -- you know, the top pharma companies who are making the vaccines come out last week with their policy statements, saying, we stand by science, and pledging that they will not release a vaccine until it's safe and effective. The very fact that they needed to do that shows the climate of distrust that we're in right now.

And it's not a good thing. It's difficult enough to manage and control this virus without these questions of credibility being, you know, called into question.

KEILAR: I want to ask you about a plan the White House nixed, which would have distributed 650 million face masks through the mail, you know, to all Americans. And an official said that they didn't end up doing it because they didn't want to, quote, "panic or concern people." What do you think about that?

RAJ: Well, I think the reason to not panic people was absolutely misguided. And if anything, people needed to understand the seriousness of the disease and the fact that masks could be very effective in preventing the spread. So I think, you know, they absolutely should have distributed them if they didn't need them elsewhere.

Now, the HHS is saying that actually 600 million masks were delivered to more kind of infrastructure-related individuals and health care workers. So if the masks had to go to certain groups as a priority, that I understand.

But if the reason to not send masks to every household was just because you didn't want to create panic? Absolutely misguided. You know, that would have actually sent a very strong message that masks work, and maybe we wouldn't be dealing with some of this mask backlash that we're dealing with right now if it came straight from the top.

[14:10:03]

KEILAR: Yes. And just the heartbreaking stories we've heard of people who are in the hospital who thought that this wasn't a big deal, and wish that they'd known that it was. Dr. Raj, thank you.

RAJ: Thank you.

KEILAR: As the COVID numbers creep back up, many are concerned about what that means for flu season. But the nation's top infectious disease expert. Dr. Anthony Fauci, says their fears may not become reality.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES (via telephone): We still should be getting our flu shots for sure, the way we always do. But it is entirely possible that despite the fear that we were going to have a double whammy, namely flu season superimposed upon a continuation of COVID-19, that may not be the case.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is joining us now.

I mean, this would certainly be good news. We're also hearing from Dr. Fauci how important it is that people go and get their flu shots. So just explain the reasoning here behind his comment.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So the reasoning here -- according to experts that we've spoken with, both in Australia as well in the United States -- is that they had an easy flu season, almost a nonexistent flu season, in the summer hemisphere because of COVID.

And I know that sounds odd, but in large part it was because of COVID. Because COVID is out there and there's so much attention on public health, more people did get flu shots. That's sort of what's believed in Australia and other places, that there was this special sort of emphasis on getting flu shots that hasn't been there before.

So that's one thing. Another thing -- and this is actually pretty obvious when you think about it -- people are wearing masks, people are doing social distancing. Those two things helped stop the spread of COVID, they also helped stop the spread of flu.

So when we hear Dr. Fauci say, hey, we could have a really easy flu season? I want to add on a second half to that: if we do the things we're supposed to do, if we get our flu shots and if we continue to mask and do social distancing. We are told that that's what made it work in Australia, we would need to do the same thing in the United States.

KEILAR: Yes, because when you think about when flu shots would have been taken in Australia, right? It would have been at a time going into the pandemic, where -- I don't know, it seems like maybe people are more comfortable now, you hear so many people who -- they're worried, right? About leaving, or they're not going into work where flu shots might actually be available.

COHEN: Right, so that is a problem. A lot of adults get their flu shots at work, that's not going to happen in a lot of workplaces now and so people are going to have to go to their doctor or go to a pharmacy, which isn't that big of a deal but it is something they need to think through.

And, Brianna, you're absolutely right, the flu season in the southern hemisphere has just ended. And so when it was starting and when people were thinking about getting flu shots, and getting flu shots, it was sort of, you know, in the -- around kind of in the spring.

And so that was the time when there was so much emphasis on, you know, preventing COVID and doing what you need to do, so there was more of an emphasis, we're told from people in Australia and other countries, on getting a flu shot. We need to keep up that emphasis here in this country.

KEILAR: And Elizabeth, there's also some new guidance out today on the return of youth sports. What are the recommendations here?

COHEN: Yes, the American Academy of Pediatrics has some very specific recommendations. The first thing I should say is that they say if a student athlete has been exposed to someone with COVID, then they should sit out. They should be sitting out for at least 14 days, so we'll start with that.

TEXT: Guidance on Return to Youth Sports, American Academy of Pediatrics: Testing discouraged unless there are symptoms or known exposure; Masks worn by coaches, spectators -- for athletes, only on sidelines; Athletes with moderate symptoms, like prolonged fever, should get heart exams.

COHEN: Now after that ,they stay that testing is discouraged unless there are symptoms or a known exposure. In other words, every student athlete doesn't need to get tested; they need to get tested if they have symptoms or if they were known to be exposed to someone with COVID.

They say that masks should be worn by coaches and spectators, and that athletes should wear them while sitting on the sidelines.

They also say that athletes with moderate symptoms like a prolonged fever should get a heart exam before they return to their athletic program. Now, there's a couple of reasons for that. One of them is they just want to make sure that these young people are fit to go back to sports. COVID can have an effect on various organs including the heart. Also, sometimes young people have congenital heart defects that no one

knew about. And certainly when you're challenged by someone with something like COVID, you want to sort of check things out and make sure that they're ready to go back and resume a sport.

KEILAR: All right. Elizabeth, thank you so much for that.

Right now, I want to let our viewers know we are awaiting President Trump coming to the podium any moment, is what we're expecting here. We're going to be bringing this to you live.

Also, a woman who used to serve on the White House Coronavirus Task Force, now blasting the president's response to the pandemic. We'll have a look at the long list of former Trump officials and Republicans who have now endorsed Biden.

[14:14:49]

And later, how the rich are getting richer from the pandemic as the rest of the country faces the worst unemployment since the Great Depression.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: A former member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force is endorsing the president's political rival, Joe Biden. Olivia Troye was Vice President Pence's lead staffer on the task force. She also served as Pence's counterterrorism advisor, and she is now featured in this new video by a group called "Republican Voters Against Trump."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER MEMBER, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: Towards the middle of February, we knew it wasn't a matter of if COVID would become a big pandemic here in the United States, it was a matter of when.

But the president didn't want to hear that because his biggest concern was that we were in an election year, and how is this going to affect what he considered to be his record of success. The truth is, he doesn't actually care about anyone else but himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:20:03]

KEILAR: Pence's national security advisor, retired Lieutenant General Keith Kellogg, says he was in those meetings and he never heard that from the president. In fact, he called her claims "egregious."

CNN politics reporter and editor at large Chris Cillizza is joining us now. And Chris, Olivia Troye is joining -- we should point out -- a long list of former Trump officials and Republicans who have now endorsed Biden. She's not alone.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR AT LARGE: No, a very long list. And, Brianna, before I go through some of them, I want to highlight for people, these are not low-level junior staffers. These are high-level aides, and many of them high-profile folks. So let's go through some.

As you mentioned, Olivia Troye, Mike Pence's top person on the Coronavirus Task Force, OK? So that's her. How about Josh Venable, chief of staff to Betsy DeVos, secretary of education? He has now endorsed Joe Biden and spoken out against Donald Trump. Miles Taylor, former chief of staff to former Department of Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen. Again, chiefs of staff. These are not fly- by-night folks who come in and pop out, these are senior-level officials.

Let's go to the second side, Brianna, which has -- these are former Trump administration officials who have spoken out against Donald Trump, but not endorsed him at least as of yet.

So there's John Kelly, his former chief of staff. There's Jim Mattis, the former secretary of defense. There's Kirstjen Nielsen -- as I mentioned before, the former head of the Department of Homeland Security. There's Rex Tillerson, the former CEO of ExxonMobil and the former secretary of state?

These are serious people who I would encourage our viewers, just go back and Google when Donald Trump nominated these folks, what he said about them. He'd talk about Rex Tillerson as the crown jewel of his cabinet, a man that only he could recruit to come to Washington and work for the good of the country.

That these people -- trusted military generals, John Kelly, Jim Mattis: These are people with impeccable credentials through decades in the military, that they would speak out tells you something. It's not just a disgruntled one or two people. Yes, in every administration there's some of that, people who go into the administration, come out and they're not happy. This is an absolute laundry list.

Let's keep going. Let's go to the next slide. These are Republican bigwigs, let's call them, who have endorsed against Donald Trump. There's Colin Powell, the former secretary of state. There's Cindy McCain, John McCain's late wife.

There's two people who ran against Donald Trump for the Republican presidential nomination, Carly Fiorina -- who you'll remember had a short-lived time as Ted Cruz's announced running mate -- Ted Cruz didn't wind up being the nominee, but Carly Fiorina, John Kasich, CNN contributor, also the former governor of Ohio? These are people who have come out and endorsed against Donald Trump.

And I'll note -- we have a little icon there about former staffers for George W. Bush who have come out as a group and endorsed Joe Biden.

Now with George W. Bush, himself obviously has not said or done anything in that regard. But if you're looking through tea leaves, reading it, seems as though a lot of the people who worked for him -- including by the way Colin Powell -- feel a certain way about Donald Trump, and feel that way strongly enough that they've come out publicly and endorsed Joe Biden.

The thing to end on, Brianna, this is not normal. Yes, one or two, a handful, maybe. This is a laundry list of senior officials and senior staff. For them to do this in so public a matter, it is not normal -- Brianna.

KEILAR: It is not. All right, Chris Cillizza, thank you so much.

And still ahead, President Trump defending Russia once again, in direct contrast to the word of his own FBI director. I'll be getting reaction from former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe, next.

[14:23:58]

And of course, we'll take you live to the White House, as soon as President Trump's news conference begins there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: FBI director Christopher Wray, warning that Russia is interfering in the upcoming presidential election. Those comments, coming in sharp contrast with what we've heard from President Trump, who continues to downplay Russia as a threat. Here is Wray under oath before Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We certainly have seen very active -- very active -- efforts by the Russians to influence our election in 2020 through what I would call more the malign foreign influence side of things: social media, use of proxies, state media, online journals, et cetera. An effort to both sow divisiveness and discord and -- and I think the intelligence community has assessed this publicly -- to primarily to denigrate Vice President Biden and what the Russians see as kind of an anti-Russian establishment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: President Trump was quick to push back, taking to Twitter to say China poses a greater threat to election security than Russia does, which is a claim that is being echoed by other Trump administration officials, though it is not based in fact according to U.S. intel assessments.

[14:29:52]

I'm joined now by former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe. And you are, Andrew, the author of "The Threat: How the FBI Protects America in the Age of Terror and Trump." So let's break this down. What do you make of Wray's assessment and also the president's reaction to it?