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Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies at 87; Congress Gearing Up for Fight for Supreme Court Replacement; President Trump Makes Claims about Vaccine Timeline. Aired 3-3:30a ET
Aired September 19, 2020 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello, everyone, I'm Michael Holmes, welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.
We begin with the death of the U.S. Supreme Court justice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg. An American icon, for many reasons, for being the second woman appointed to the court. Her progressive rulings on social issues and her fiery dissents, her resilience, after multiple battles with cancer and even for her exercise routine.
Amid the morning comes a promise of a dramatic political showdown over her replacement. Just weeks before the presidential election, we will have more on, that in a moment. First, CNN's Jessica Schneider looks at Ginsburg's extraordinary life.
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JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ruth Bader Ginsburg's rise from a humble Brooklyn neighborhood to the nation's highest court was a classic American story.
RUTH BADER GINSBURG, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: What is the difference between a bookkeeper in New York's garment district and a Supreme Court justice?
Just one generation, my mother's life and mine, bear witness. Where else but in America, could that happen?
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): She was smart, tied for first in her class at Columbia Law School. But in the late '50s and early '60s, the glass ceiling stood firm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were 3 strikes against her, first she was a woman. Second, she was Jewish, third she had a young child.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): She turned to teaching law and fighting gender discrimination, for the ACLU.
MARGO SCHLANGER, FORMER GINSBURG CLERK: Very much with the model of the NAACP's local defense fund led by Thurgood Marshall, she had this idea that you have to build precedent step by step.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): In 1980, Ginsburg came a federal appellate court judge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So help me God.
GINSBURG: So help me God.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Thirteen years later, she was named to the Supreme Court by President Clinton, the second woman on the bench; the first, Sandra Day O'Connor, was glad to see her.
SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: The minute Justice Ginsburg came to the court, we were nine justices. It was not seven and then the women. And it was a great relief to me.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): As a justice, Ginsburg consistently voted in favor of abortion access and civil rights. Perhaps her best-known work on the court, writing the 1996 landmark decision to strike down the Virginia Military Institute's ban on admitting women.
She was also known for her bold dissents, like the one she wrote when the court stopped the 2000 Florida ballot recount struck down a key provision of the Voting Rights Act and ended the contraception mandate for some businesses under the Affordable Care Act.
GINSBURG: In our view, the court does not comprehend or is indifferent to the insidious way in which women can be victims of pay discrimination.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): In 2007, the high court ruled against Lilly Ledbetter, a factory supervisor at a tire plant, in a high profile pay discrimination case. Ginsburg urged Congress to take up the issue in her dissent. Twenty months later, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act was the first bill that President Obama signed into law.
After Justice John Paul Stevens retired in 2010, Ginsburg became the most senior of her liberal colleagues. But she didn't slow down. Stephen Colbert discovered that the hard way, trying to keep up with RBG's famously tough workouts.
STEPHEN COLBERT, CBS HOST: I'm cramping and I'm working out with an 85-year-old woman.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Ginsburg hired a trainer after treatment for colorectal cancer in the late '90s. In 2018, doctors treating the justice for broken ribs discovered cancerous growth on her lung. The surgery was successful, but the recovery caused Ginsburg to miss oral arguments of the Supreme Court for the first time in her career.
She was also treated several times for pancreatic cancer but always stayed up on her court work. Even after losing her husband of 56 years to cancer Ginsburg was back on the bench the next morning.
GINSBURG: I love the work I do. I think I have the best job in the world for a lawyer. I respect all of my colleagues and genuinely like most of them.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Her best friend on the bench was the late justice Antonin Scalia, her ideological opposite.
ANTONIN SCALIA, FORMER U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: What's not to like?
Except her views of the law, of course.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): They shared a laugh about Ginsburg drinking wine before nodding off at the State of the Union.
GINSBURG: I was 100 percent sober because, before we went to the State of the Union, we had dinner together and Justice Kennedy brought in --
SCALIA: Well, that's the first intelligent thing you've done.
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SCHNEIDER (voice-over): In her later years, she gained rock star status with Millennials thanks to social media.
GINSBURG: It was beyond my wildest imagination that I would, one day, become The Notorious RBG.
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SCHNEIDER (voice-over): The nickname was a play on the name of the late rapper, The Notorious B.I.G. There were books, clothing, tattoos, even a species of praying mantis in her honor, along with a recurring "SNL" sketch.
KATE MCKINNON, COMEDIAN, "RUTH BADER GINSBURG": Oh, you just got Ginsburned.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): There was a feature film, "On The Basis of Sex," and a documentary produced by CNN. "RBG" was an unexpected box office hit and gave the justice an even larger platform to share her lifelong mission of gender equality.
GINSBURG: People ask me, sometimes, when will there be enough women on the court?
And my answer is, when there are nine.
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HOLMES: Now president Donald Trump had just finished a campaign rally in the U.S. state of Minnesota on Friday night when he heard, former reporter, of the news about Justice Ginsburg.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She just died?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
TRUMP: Wow. I didn't know that. I just -- you're telling me now for the first time. She led an amazing life. What else can you say. She was an amazing woman whether you agree or not. She was an amazing woman who led an amazing life. I'm actually sad to hear that. I am sad to hear that. Thank you very much.
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HOLMES: Mr. Trump's challenger for the White House, Democrat Joe Biden, says that the U.S. is mourning the loss of an American hero.
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JOE BIDEN (D-DE), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We learned of the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg who is not only a giant in the legal profession but a beloved figure.
And my heart goes out to all those who cared for her and care about her. She practiced the highest American ideals as a justice, equality and justice under the law. And Ruth Bader Ginsburg stood, stood for all of us.
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HOLMES: The U.S. Democratic presidential nominee, went on to say that the confirmation of a new high court justice should wait until after the election.
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BIDEN: But there is no doubt, let me be clear, that the voters should pick the president and the president should pick the justice for the Senate to consider. This was the position the Republican Senate took in 2016 when there were almost 10 months ago before the election. That is the position of the United States Senate must take today.
And the election is only 46 days off. I think the fastest justice never confirmed was 47 days. And the average is closer to 70 days. So they should do this with full consideration. And that is my hope and expectation for what will happen.
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HOLMES: Democrats in Congress will certainly agree with Joe Biden. But some Republicans, already, indicating that they will fight to replace Justice Ginsburg.
The Senate majority leader says there is time for a vote on a Trump nominee, which would be highly controversial. CNN's Manu Raju, with more on what could be an explosive conflict.
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MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, he is in charge of the Senate calendar, he determines what comes to the floor for votes and for consideration.
He is making it clear that the replacement for Ruth Bader Ginsburg will get a vote before the end of the year. And that is very significant. That means, no matter what happens in November, if President Trump wins or loses to Joe Biden, whether or not the Republicans keep control of the Senate or Democrats win a majority, that McConnell will still push for a vote before the end of the year. And the Republicans will have this current majority until year's end.
So that gives them few months to get someone confirmed. The big question here, the timing, and the votes. One, the timing.
Will it happen before November?
At the moment it appears unlikely. It typically takes 2 to 3 months for a nominee to be confirmed. Right now, there simply, is not enough time. But there is a push among some Republicans to get someone confirmed before November, arguing that they need nine justices on the Supreme Court to help break any dispute, election year legal dispute that could occur from the November 3rd election.
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RAJU: So expect the argument to continue to play out. The bigger question for Republicans is do they have the votes to confirm someone?
Can they maintain three senators from defecting?
If there are more than three senators who defect, that means that no president Trump nominee will be confirmed.
Also a question, whether or not a special election in Arizona, where Martha McSally, the current appointed senator, is up against a Democrat, Mark Kelly, if Kelly wins that race on November 3rd, he could be sworn into that seat potentially by the end of November.
So that would make also the Republican majority 52 to 48 as well. So that would narrow the Republican majority. All of these calculations are started to be considered at the highest levels of Senate Republican leadership.
They're trying to make sure they have the votes. They're trying to see whether or not how their conference will react. So a lot of discussions will happen behind the, scenes. Members will talk more when they come back next week.
But no doubt about it. Republican leadership is ready to move forward and vote for a nominee setting up a historic fight over a nominee who could change the lives of Americans for years to come -- Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.
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HOLMES: Joining me now is former Michigan governor, Jennifer Granholm. She is also a CNN senior political commentator.
Governor, thank you for speaking to us. On this historic evening, in many ways, speak to the imprint that Justice Ginsburg leaves on the court.
JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First of all, to be, real she was the second woman appointed to serve on the Supreme Court. Just the second. Appointed in '93. Progress in this country, always hard, won and hard-fought. There were fewer people in our nation's history to advance our ideals better than Justice Ginsburg.
The recency of this historic tenure should make us realize the darker days of our past are closer than we think. One thing about her that was so amazing, she was so smart about when she was a lawyer, when she was a professor at Columbia, and she headed the ACLU's project for women's advancements, women's rights project, she decided that she wanted to make sure that the law gave women equal rights.
So instead of finding a woman to bring a case that would eventually go to the Supreme Court, she was worried that this all-male group of justices would not be in her favor and would not be sympathetic. So she found a man.
The man she found was a guy, who was an 18-year old, who couldn't buy beer in Oklahoma but his girlfriend, who was 18, could. So men were not allowed to buy beer until they were 21 but women could buy at 18.
So this case went all the way up to the Supreme Court, using a man as the plaintiff and when Craig v. Boren was decided, it said that men and women or that gender could not be -- you couldn't discriminate against somebody based upon their gender. But that was the genius of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
HOLMES: An extraordinary life, extraordinary career. It may see unseemly, but we have to talk politics. Mitch McConnell argued at the end of Barack Obama's term that it was wrong to appoint a justice in an election year.
In fact, we can put up his exact words.
He said, quote, "The American people will choose the next president who will in turn, nominate the next Supreme Court justice. #LetThePeopleDecide."
Of course, now, politics being politics, he says the opposite.
What can Democrats do to stop him?
GRANHOLM: This war will break out if Mitch McConnell tries to ram through a justice of the Supreme Court. First of all, it's too close of a time, 46 days until the election, to get someone confirmed before the election.
But he could try to do it in lame duck or before he leaves. If Democrats -- this means that this election will certainly, certainly, impact the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court will impact the election. So if they try to do this between November and January, then all hell
will break loose, I can just tell you. Democrats, already feel like their justice was stolen from them when he refused to put a vote up for Merrick Garland in the last year of President Obama's tenure.
He let it sit open for a year and if he now jams this through, Democrats will feel, rightly, that, they, when they win, if they win the Senate and the presidency, that they will seek to expand the number of justices on the court because they will have felt so wronged.
HOLMES: That seems -- I've been hearing that a lot tonight, that they could do that.
It's interesting, though, to do it in the lame duck session, there are already some senators on the record. Senator Murkowski said it would be a double standard to fill a position before 2021.
Senator Lindsey Graham, back on October 28, said if an opening comes in the last year of Trump's term and the primary process has started, we'll wait until the next election.
Democrats, I think they need four Republicans to not go ahead.
What are the odds of that?
GRANHOLM: Of Lindsey Graham of not voting with Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump?
Zero.
HOLMES: No chance.
GRANHOLM: However, I will say that some of these senators are up for election right now in tough reelections. So for example, Susan Collins, who may be persuaded to back off, for her, this is a big deal because, in Maine, there was a poll that came out from "The New York Times" this morning.
And the question was asked, who do you trust more on appointing Supreme Court justices?
And in Maine, Biden is trusted by 22 points over Trump. So at her peril she would say, yes, I'm going to vote to allow this to happen in lame duck.
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GRANHOLM: Similarly, in Arizona there is a big Senate race. The incumbent is a Republican, Martha McSally. This same poll says Biden is trusted by 10 points more.
Do I think that politics are going to play and that hypocrisy is going to be rampant?
Yes, and I think the Republicans will want to jam this through. But they do so, I think, at their peril.
HOLMES: Yes, mourning for the justice Ginsburg but the politics have already begun. Governor Granholm, thank you so much, I really appreciate it.
GRANHOLM: You bet. Thanks so much.
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HOLMES: We will have more reaction to the death of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg after a short break. We will be right back.
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HOLMES: Welcome back.
Former U.S. secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, revealed last year that she played a role in Ginsburg's nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court. Or as Clinton put it, expressed an opinion or two to her husband, who happened to be the president, Bill Clinton.
Upon learning of Ginsburg's death, Clinton wrote this on Twitter.
Quoting, "Justice Ginsburg paved the way for so many women, including me. There will never be another like her. Thank you, RBG."
And the former president, Bill Clinton, who took his wife's advice said, he knew within 10 minutes of meeting Ginsburg that he was going to ask her to take that Supreme Court job.
He also released a statement and he said, quote, "With the passing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, America has lost one of the most extraordinary justices to ever serve on the Supreme Court.
"Her landmark opinions advancing gender equality, marriage equality, the rights of people with disabilities, the rights of immigrants and so many more moved us closer to a more perfect union."
Earlier, we heard from the coauthor of "Notorious RBG: The Life and Times of Ruth Bader Ginsburg." Irin Carmon said Justice Ginsburg was a force of nature in her or Rick on the Supreme Court and in her life.
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IRIN CARMON, AUTHOR: She had a mind like a steel trap. She was somebody who remembered everything that you ever spoke to her about.
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CARMON: One of her friends once said there were no words that were not preceded by thoughts. She was someone who devoted her entire life to the cause of gender equality, to civil rights, to the court as an institution. She was someone with profound dignity and a profound sense of justice and what is right.
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HOLMES: Joining me now, with more, CNN legal analyst, Joan Biskupic. She's covered this for 25 years.
And it is fantastic to have you on. You know so much just about Justice Ginsburg. Speak to your Justice Ginsburg the woman, first.
JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Thanks Michael. Good to be with you. She has been on the court for 27 degrees now. But she had quite a career before she became a justice. She is a pioneer in women's rights litigation here in America.
Back in the '70s when the women's movement was gaining traction politically, she was at the Supreme Court, arguing six cases to expand women's legal rights, winning five of those.
Then, after she became a justice, she started out as a centrist. Not the liberal we see today. She had quite a transformation that means so much to Americans right now, because of what an iconic figure she became, the voice of women's rights on the Supreme Court as well as civil rights on the Supreme Court.
You can probably tell from her pictures, she was a small woman. I used to kid she was probably the only person living who would lie about her weight in the opposite direction. She was smaller than 5 feet, barely 100 pounds.
But when you spoke to her, she had such a clear, deliberate, steady way. She would leave a lot of pauses between her words. She was quite serious although she had a fabulous wry sense on the side.
She was many things including being a mother of two and a loving wife to Martin Ginsburg who helped her get on the Supreme Court in 1993. So a lot I can say about the human being and the personal side of Ruth Bader Ginsburg but to American law, she was so monumental.
And her death will set off a momentous fight for the future of the Supreme Court.
HOLMES: I was going to ask you that but I also want to ask you, she was the second woman appointed to the court.
How did she change the Supreme Court?
BISKUPIC: Ruth Bader Ginsburg came on in 1993. More than a decade after Sandra Day O'Connor and they were two completely different women. She was a Republican from Arizona, Ginsburg a Democrat from Brooklyn. She broadened the idea of the kinds of women who would be on the Supreme Court and, famously, she used to answer, when people asked how many women should be on the Supreme Court, she would say, nine. as in, 9 seats.
HOLMES: Joan, thank you so much, Joan Biskupic there, joining us.
BISKUPIC: Thank you, Michael.
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HOLMES: We will take a quick break. When we come back, on CNN NEWSROOM, our other big story, the coronavirus virus as it surges across Europe, the prime minister warns the second wave is arriving. New restrictions being put in place.
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HOLMES: Taking you now live, to Thailand's capital, Bangkok. Large crowds taking part in anti government and anti monarchy protests. At Thailand's Thammasat University, protesters have been demanding the removal of the country's prime minister, changes to the constitution and reforms to the monarchy, which is normally a taboo topic in the country.
Protesters say they will be marching from the university to the government house, in an effort to put pressure on the prime minister.
In the U.S., president Donald Trump is laying out a new coronavirus vaccine timeline, as the nation quickly approaches 200,000 deaths.
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HOLMES: He now claims all Americans will be able to get a vaccine by April, saying 100 million doses will be ready before the end of the year.
But a vaccine has yet to be approved. And the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says, one would probably not be widely available until the northern late spring or summer of next year.
Meanwhile, Europe is fighting what looks like a second wave of the coronavirus. Hospitalizations rising in France, the country reported on Friday more than 13,000 new infections.
And Britain is expanding local coronavirus restrictions across parts of England, as daily cases in the U.K. pass 4,000 for the first time since May. Prime minister Boris Johnson said the increasing infections pointing to a second wave.
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BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: There's no question, as I've said for several weeks now, what we could expect, we are now seeing a second wave coming in. We see it in France, in Spain, across Europe. It is absolutely inevitable, I'm afraid, in this country.
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HOLMES: For more on these latest developments, let's turn to journalist Simon Cullen joining us from London.
Good to see you Simon, this is a massive spike in infections and positivity rates.
Where is it headed in the U.K.?
What actions are happening or are likely?
SIMON CULLEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michael, there is little doubt that tougher restrictions are on the way. As you said, there is a rapid increase in the number of cases. 4,000 new cases every day. That compares with a peak earlier this year, about 6,000 new cases.
Now it's worth pointing out that it's actually likely to be much higher, because there is a shortage of testing. Even though the government has dramatically increased capacity, it is simply not keeping pace with demand.
As a result, the government is having to prioritize who can access those tests. It's also worth pointing out, even though the number of cases is dramatically increasing, that is not yet being translated into hospital admissions.
Earlier this year, at the peak, it was 20,000 patients being treated in hospital with coronavirus. The figure at the moment is over 1,000. Having said all that, the U.K. prime minister Boris Johnson is warning that tougher restrictions are likely.
Already, large parts of the U.K. are facing local lockdowns, about one-fifth of the population is currently affected. Here in London, the mayor is saying it's increasingly likely that similar measures will be required over here.
They last resort, Michael, is a second national lockdown, something the government does not want but it is a last resort option, Michael.
HOLMES: Simon Cullen there in London for us. Thank you, Simon. I appreciate that.
And thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM, for spending part day with me. I am Michael Holmes. don't go away, "AFRICAN VOICES" is up next. Natalie Allen will be with you in a few minutes.
