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Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies at 87; U.K. Expands COVID-19 Restrictions across Parts of England; Demonstrations in Thailand against Government, Monarchy; Outgoing U.S. Ambassador: China's Actions Have Alienated Many. Aired 4-5a ET

Aired September 19, 2020 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): A brilliant legal mind and a pioneer for equality in America's highest court is gone. How Ruth Bader Ginsburg's death could make the race for the White House even nastier.

Also this hour, expanding restrictions in England as COVID-19 cases balloon and the prime minister points to a second wave of the virus on the horizon.

And daring to challenge Thailand's monarchy, tens of thousands protest in Bangkok.

Live from CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta, welcome to our viewers around the world. I'm Natalie Allen. This is CNN NEWSROOM.

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ALLEN: And thank you so much for joining me.

Expressions of respect and mourning have been pouring in following the death of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. A stalwart of the court's liberal faction for almost three decades, she died at her Washington home on Friday after a long battle with pancreatic cancer. She was 87 years old.

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ALLEN (voice-over): And this happened. A crowd of admirers soon formed outside the Supreme Court building in Washington to hold a vigil and applaud Ginsburg's legacy. American flags at the White House and the U.S. Capitol are lowered to half staff. U.S. embassies around the world are ordered to lower the flag in her honor.

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ALLEN: Although a small woman, Ginsburg's fiery legal opinions towered over the court and helped transform America. In recent years, she emerged as an iconic cultural figure because of her lifetime of work on abortion rights, gender equality, same-sex marriage and other progressive social issues.

Now with her death less than two months before the election and speculation of when she would be replaced, the U.S. could be heading into one of the most volatile and uncertain political seasons it has ever experienced.

Two women who knew Ginsburg well and were involved in the "RBG" book and documentary talked with CNN about what drove her. Here they are.

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IRIN CARMON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: One of her most incredible qualities was her mind, her ability to think creatively and innovatively about how to get to gender equality.

She was strategic. She was smart. She also wasn't just working toward women's equality. She would like to say she was working for women's and men's liberation. If she hadn't lived such a full life herself, I don't think she would have thought about such an expansive vision of equality.

So she was someone who both had a loving marriage and loved to go to the opera and loved to laugh at boisterous jokes while also having this deep reserve of commitment to justice and the law.

BETSY WEST, FILM DIRECTOR, "RBG": This was an extraordinarily determined woman. You know, energetic. The one thing I want to say is she loved her job. You know, she loved the work. I think part of the determination was that. She felt she was making a contribution to her society and she wanted to keep doing it.

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ALLEN: Ruth Bader Ginsburg's impact on the Supreme Court and on American law cannot be overstated. Her impact on women's equality and civil rights and other progressive issues promises to frame American democracy and life, potentially, for generations to come.

Here's how several top legal scholars describe her lifetime of work.

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LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: When a new opinion came out on the Supreme Court, I would read her dissent before I even barely perused the majority holding.

Why?

Because I wanted to know how a real mastermind was able to frame the question and I would dare that majority opinion to try to reconcile how they could not see it her way. This is somebody who was an intellectual powerhouse.

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COATES: And also was somebody who could relay information and convey it in a way that simply took into account sociological factors, the political factors and common sense.

If you believe in same-sex marriage, if you believe in gender equality, if you believe in equal pay, if you believe in disability rights, that there should not be electoral disenfranchisement, you believe in Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

She was notorious -- and I know that was very tongue-in-cheek -- but she was notorious in being able to demonstrate the reasoning. And she knew the gravitas. She knew the weight of her opinion and her dissents on future holdings. And it is such a loss today.

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JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: It is so hard even to remember how there were jobs that were simply not available to women. There were women's classified ads in the newspaper and men's classified ads in the newspaper, things that we can't even imagine today.

So Jimmy Carter appointed her to the D.C. Circuit toward the end of his term. Then Bill Clinton put her on the Supreme Court in 1993.

You know, 27 years on the Supreme Court, she was a liberal in conservative times. And there's no sugar coating the fact that she was in dissent in many of the most important cases of her time.

But in spite of that, she remained and became an icon to so many people, mostly women but not exclusively, and a symbol of how you don't have to be more than 5 feet tall or weigh more than 100 pounds to be as tough as an NFL linebacker.

Because she was that tough intellectually, she was that tough physically and she will be remembered long after most Supreme Court justices are footnotes to history.

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JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: She actually became The Notorious RBG after her 2013 dissent in the case known as Shelby County versus Holder when the five justice conservative majority cut back on the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

And with each year, she dug in harder and harder on the Left and, frankly, was more critical of president Donald Trump. You probably remember in 2016, when she ended up speaking a bit out of school, saying he is such a faker and he has such an ego. She ended up retracting those statements that she had said to me in an interview.

But she has remained pretty harsh against him and during the recent Trump documents cases at the Supreme Court, she noted that he still hadn't turned over his tax returns. So she only became more outspoken and moved more to the Left, a sort of personal transformation.

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ALLEN: President Trump had just finished a campaign rally in the state of Minnesota Friday night when he heard from a reporter the news about justice Ginsburg.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She just died?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TRUMP: Wow. I didn't know that. I just -- you're telling me now for the first time. She led an amazing life. What else can you say. She was an amazing woman whether you agree or not. She was an amazing woman who led an amazing life. I'm actually sad to hear that. I am sad to hear that. Thank you very much.

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ALLEN: Mr. Trump's challenger for the White House, Joe Biden, says the U.S. is mourning the loss of an American hero.

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JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We learned of the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg who is not only a giant in the legal profession but a beloved figure.

And my heart goes out to all those who cared for her and care about her. She practiced the highest American ideals as a justice, equality and justice under the law. And Ruth Bader Ginsburg stood, stood for all of us.

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ALLEN: The U.S. Democratic presidential nominee there went on to say the confirmation of the new high court justice should wait until after the November election.

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BIDEN: But there is no doubt, let me be clear, that the voters should pick the president and the president should pick the justice for the Senate to consider. This was the position the Republican Senate took in 2016.

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BIDEN: When there were almost 10 months ago before the election. That is the position of the United States Senate must take today.

And the election is only 46 days off. I think the fastest justice never confirmed was 47 days. And the average is closer to 70 days. So they should do this with full consideration. And that is my hope and expectation for what will happen.

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ALLEN: A source close to President Trump says he is eager to nominate a replacement for Ginsburg as soon as possible. That apparently weighed on Ginsburg's mind in her final hours.

According to NPR, she dictated this statement to her granddaughter just days before she died.

"My most fervent wish is that I will not be replaced until a new president is installed."

The U.S. Senate must confirm the replacement. But back in 2016, Senate Republicans refused to consider President Obama's pick because they said it was too close to the presidential election, even though it was nine months away.

They insisted they were standing on principle. Majority leader Mitch McConnell said at the time that such an important decision should be left to the American people.

Well?

That was then. When a Democrat was in the White House. Now that Republican Donald Trump is president?

The Republicans say it's different. CNN's Manu Raju explains how McConnell may be lighting the fuse to an explosive confrontation.

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MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, he is in charge of the Senate calendar, he determines what comes to the floor for votes and for consideration.

He is making it clear that the replacement for Ruth Bader Ginsburg will get a vote before the end of the year. And that is very significant. That means, no matter what happens in November, if President Trump wins or loses to Joe Biden, whether or not the Republicans keep control of the Senate or Democrats win a majority, that McConnell will still push for a vote before the end of the year. And the Republicans will have this current majority until year's end.

So that gives them few months to get someone confirmed. The big question here, the timing, and the votes. One, the timing.

Will it happen before November?

At the moment it appears unlikely. It typically takes 2 to 3 months for a nominee to be confirmed. Right now, there simply, is not enough time. But there is a push among some Republicans to get someone confirmed before November, arguing that they need nine justices on the Supreme Court to help break any dispute, election year legal dispute that could occur from the November 3rd election.

So expect the argument to continue to play out. The bigger question for Republicans is do they have the votes to confirm someone? Can they maintain three senators from defecting?

If there are more than three senators who defect, that means that no President Trump nominee will be confirmed.

Also a question, whether or not a special election in Arizona, where Martha McSally, the current appointed senator, is up against a Democrat, Mark Kelly, if Kelly wins that race on November 3rd, he could be sworn into that seat potentially by the end of November.

So that would make also the Republican majority 52 to 48 as well. So that would narrow the Republican majority. All of these calculations are started to be considered at the highest levels of Senate Republican leadership.

They're trying to make sure they have the votes. They're trying to see whether or not how their conference will react. So a lot of discussions will happen behind the, scenes. Members will talk more when they come back next week.

But no doubt about it. Republican leadership is ready to move forward and vote for a nominee setting up a historic fight over a nominee who could change the lives of Americans for years to come -- Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.

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ALLEN: Former president Barack Obama quickly noted the hypocrisy of Senate Republicans now that they stand to gain another conservative Supreme Court justice. He released this statement.

"A basic principle of the law and of everyday fairness is that we apply rules with consistency and not based on what is convenient or advantageous in the moment. The rule of law, the legitimacy of our courts, the fundamental workings of our democracy all depend on that basic principle."

The battle lines in the Senate are already taking shape. Minority leader Chuck Schumer, a Democrat, repeated the Republicans' argument from four years ago, that the Supreme Court vacancy should not be filled until after the election.

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ALLEN: He tweeted his condolences on Ginsburg's death, calling her "a giant of American history who would want everyone to fight to preserve her legacy."

In a Democratic controlled House, progressive firebrand Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez lamented that Ginsburg's final days were preoccupied by what might happen after she was gone and vowed to keep fighting.

As news of her death spread, many rushed to the steps of the Supreme Court to pay respects. Crowds held a candlelight vigil for the iconic justice. CNN's Jessica Schneider has more on what happened.

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JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Within minutes, people started gathering here, the crowd growing exponentially. I talked to people who said, as soon as they heard the news, they came out here to the court.

You can see the crowds behind me. You see the growing pile of flowers and candles out here. I talked to one woman who said she lives in this neighborhood, in Capitol Hill. She came out here because she wanted to honor Justice Ginsburg. She said that she was a woman of fairness and intelligence. I thought that was a great way to put it.

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ALLEN: Ruth Bader Ginsburg was 87 years old.

Breaking news coming to us now of what police describe as a mass shooting in New York State. It happened in the city of Rochester early Saturday morning. Police there have just held a news conference and announced two people were killed and 14 wounded when gunfire erupted at a party on the city's East Side.

A witness says the gunfire sounded like the Vietnam War.

A campaign rally with few masks and big COVID promises. Next, hear what President Trump has to say about a vaccine that doesn't yet exist.

Also how Britain is battling what prime minister Boris Johnson is calling a second wave of coronavirus. The latest on the restrictions live coming up here.

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ALLEN (voice-over): What you are seeing here is another Trump campaign rally and, as you can see, hardly any face masks or social distancing Friday night among Trump supporters in the state of Minnesota.

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ALLEN: Mr. Trump spoke for nearly two hours and joked about his plans for the U.S. Supreme Court. Not appearing to know the news about high court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Before that rally, the president promised every American would have access to a coronavirus vaccine by spring. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: As soon as a vaccine is approved, the administration will deliver it to the American people immediately. Distribution will begin within 24 hours after notice.

We'll have manufactured at least 100 million vaccine, doses before the end of the year and likely much more than that. Hundreds of millions of doses will be available every month and we expect to have enough vaccines for every American by April.

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ALLEN: But the question remains, 100 million doses of what?

A vaccine proven to be both safe and effective does not exist. The United States is on track to mark a devastating milestone potentially as soon as this weekend. It is closing in on 200,000 Americans dead from coronavirus, the worst death toll of any country in the world.

Even as Mr. Trump continues to push for a vaccine to be approved before the presidential election, experts at the World Health Organization say while the vaccine is critical there are measures the world can take now to combat the spread, including isolating patients and quarantining contacts.

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MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, WHO: I know there is a lot of emphasis on the vaccine and that is important. Absolutely important. But we have tools right now that work. We have tools right now that everybody can be doing and all governments can be doing to bring the outbreaks under control.

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There are more indications that the coronavirus is reemerging in areas of Europe that once had it under control. France set a daily record on Friday with more than 13,000 new infections, the most since the pandemic began. That brings the total confirmed cases to 428,000.

Britain is expanding local coronavirus restrictions across parts of England as daily cases surpass 4,000, the first time since May. Prime minister Boris Johnson says the increase in infections point to a second wave.

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BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: There's no question as I've said for several weeks now that we could expect a second wave coming in. You see it in France and across Spain and across Europe. It has been absolutely, I'm afraid, inevitable that you see it in this country.

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ALLEN: For more on the latest developments, let's go to Simon Cullen. He joins me from London.

Good morning, Simon.

What is causing the second wave?

SIMON CULLEN, JOURNALIST: Good morning, Natalie. A few factors at play here. Over the summer, travel restrictions were eased and people started to go back into the workplaces. Bars and restaurants have been reopening.

That initial second wave was first noticed among younger people. People who were going back into the restaurants and now we are seeing it in the older population as well, particularly in care homes. As you say, 4,000 new cases a day, compared with the peak of 6,000 during the earlier first wave.

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CULLEN: It is worth pointing out, Natalie, these figures are likely to be much higher because of the shortage of testing. The government increased capacity for testing. But it is not keeping pace with demand.

The result is the government is prioritize who accesses the tests. The second thing to point out is we are seeing a spike in the number of cases but it is not yet translated into an increase in hospitalizations.

During the first wave, there was a peak of 20,000 people treated in hospital for coronavirus but now that figure is just over 1,000. Now the prime minister Boris Johnson says it is likely tougher restrictions will be needed to curb the second wave.

Already large parts of the U.K. are in local lockdown, affecting millions of people. Here in London, the mayor is saying it is likely that similar restrictions will be needed here, too. Of course, the nuclear option is a second national lockdown. That is something the government doesn't want to do but the government is not ruling out -- Natalie.

ALLEN: Those are a lot of options.

I'm curious, Simon, are you getting a sense of public reaction to what could be very strict restrictions coming up again?

CULLEN: Absolutely. Certainly the opinion on further restrictions is divided. Authorities in the U.K. seem to be preparing the groundwork for the tougher restrictions. All the indications are that will take place.

There is also coronavirus restriction fatigue. If you go into supermarkets here in London, lots of people are not wearing face masks and social distancing is not always happening. One of the things the government could do is just enforce the rules as they exist. At this stage, there are a lot of people not following the rules. Natalie.

ALLEN: We can tell. All right. Simon Cullen in London, thank you.

Remembering Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. A deeper look at her incredible life coming up next.

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ALLEN: Welcome back to viewers joining from us all around the world. I'm Natalie Allen. You are watching CNN NEWSROOM.

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ALLEN (voice-over): This applause you hear wasn't planned. It wasn't coordinated in any way. It was merely a spontaneous expression of respect for a revered keeper of the law. At the steps outside the Supreme Court on Friday, the applause lasted 40 seconds. One of many tributes to Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg who died Friday at the age of 87.

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ALLEN: She was just the second woman appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court and she gained fame and admiration for her progressive rulings on social issues and her fiery dissents. Her resilience after multiple battles with cancer over the years and even for her exercise routine late in life.

Amid the mourning comes the prospect of a furious political showdown over her replacement just weeks before the presidential election. We'll get to that in a moment. First, CNN's Jessica Schneider looks at Ginsburg's extraordinary life and service.

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SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Ruth Bader Ginsburg's rise from a humble Brooklyn neighborhood to the nation's highest court was a classic American story.

RUTH BADER GINSBURG, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: What is the difference between a bookkeeper in New York's garment district and a Supreme Court justice?

Just one generation, my mother's life and mine, bear witness. Where else but in America, could that happen?

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): She was smart, tied for first in her class at Columbia Law School. But in the late '50s and early '60s, the glass ceiling stood firm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were 3 strikes against her, first she was a woman, second she was Jewish, third she had a young child.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): She turned to teaching law and fighting gender discrimination, for the ACLU.

MARGO SCHLANGER, FORMER GINSBURG CLERK: Very much with the model of the NAACP's local defense fund led by Thurgood Marshall, she had this idea that you have to build precedent step by step.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): In 1980, Ginsburg came a federal appellate court judge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So help me God.

GINSBURG: So help me God.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Thirteen years later, she was named to the Supreme Court by President Clinton, the second woman on the bench; the first, Sandra Day O'Connor, was glad to see her.

SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: The minute Justice Ginsburg came to the court, we were nine justices. It was not seven and then the women. And it was a great relief to me.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): As a justice, Ginsburg consistently voted in favor of abortion access and civil rights. Perhaps her best-known work on the court, writing the 1996 landmark decision to strike down the Virginia Military Institute's ban on admitting women.

She was also known for her bold dissents, like the one she wrote when the court stopped the 2000 Florida ballot recount struck down a key provision of the Voting Rights Act and ended the contraception mandate for some businesses under the Affordable Care Act.

GINSBURG: In our view, the court does not comprehend or is indifferent to the insidious way in which women can be victims of pay discrimination.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): In 2007, the high court ruled against Lilly Ledbetter, a factory supervisor at a tire plant, in a high profile pay discrimination case. Ginsburg urged Congress to take up the issue in her dissent. Twenty months later, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act was the first bill that President Obama signed into law.

After Justice John Paul Stevens retired in 2010, Ginsburg became the most senior of her liberal colleagues. But she didn't slow down. Stephen Colbert discovered that the hard way, trying to keep up with RBG's famously tough workouts.

STEPHEN COLBERT, CBS HOST: I'm cramping and I'm working out with an 85-year-old woman.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Ginsburg hired a trainer after treatment for colorectal cancer in the late '90s. In 2018, doctors treating the justice for broken ribs discovered cancerous growth on her lung. The surgery was successful but the recovery caused Ginsburg to miss oral arguments of the Supreme Court for the first time in her career. She was also treated several times for pancreatic cancer but always

stayed up on her court work. Even after losing her husband of 56 years to cancer Ginsburg was back on the bench the next morning.

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GINSBURG: I love the work I do. I think I have the best job in the world for a lawyer. I respect all of my colleagues and genuinely like most of them.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Her best friend on the bench was the late justice Antonin Scalia, her ideological opposite.

ANTONIN SCALIA, FORMER U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: What's not to like?

Except her views of the law, of course.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): They shared a laugh about Ginsburg drinking wine before nodding off at the State of the Union.

GINSBURG: I was 100 percent sober because, before we went to the State of the Union, we had dinner together and Justice Kennedy brought in --

SCALIA: Well, that's the first intelligent thing you've done.

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SCHNEIDER (voice-over): In her later years, she gained rock star status with Millennials thanks to social media.

GINSBURG: It was beyond my wildest imagination that I would, one day, become The Notorious RBG.

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SCHNEIDER (voice-over): The nickname was a play on the name of the late rapper, The Notorious B.I.G. There were books, clothing, tattoos, even a species of praying mantis in her honor, along with a recurring "SNL" sketch.

KATE MCKINNON, COMEDIAN, "RUTH BADER GINSBURG": Oh, you just got Ginsburned.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): There was a feature film, "On The Basis of Sex," and a documentary produced by CNN. "RBG" was an unexpected box office hit and gave the justice an even larger platform to share her lifelong mission of gender equality.

GINSBURG: People ask me, sometimes, when will there be enough women on the court?

And my answer is, when there are nine.

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ALLEN: She did have a wonderful sense of humor. Former U.S. secretary of state Hillary Clinton revealed last year she

played a role in Ruth Bader Ginsburg's nomination to the court. Clinton put it, she expressed an opinion or two to her husband, then president Bill Clinton. Upon learning of Ginsburg's death, Hillary Clinton wrote this on Twitter.

"Justice Ginsburg paved the way for so many women, including me. There will never been another like her. Thank you, RBG."

Former president Bill Clinton, who took his wife's advice, said he knew within 10 minutes of meeting with Ginsburg that he was going to ask her to take the Supreme Court post. He released this statement.

"With the passing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, America has lost one of the most extraordinary justices on the Supreme Court. Her landmark opinions advancing gender equality, marriage equality, the rights of people with disabilities, the rights of immigrants and so many more move this closer to a more perfect union."

Many are telling CNN the death of Justice Ginsburg means a seismic shift for the Supreme Court. And Nina Totenberg for NPR agrees.

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NINA TOTENBERG, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO ANCHOR: She did love her job. She had planned, in fact, to retire and be replaced by a nominee of the first woman president. She really thought that Hillary Clinton would be elected.

And fate dealt her the cards not that way. And she just soldiered on. She played -- she could have taught an NFL defensive end how to play hurt. I have never seen anybody play hurt, broken ribs, chemo, radiation, shingles, you name it, this woman endured it. And continued to do the most incredible quality work.

One of the last things she said to -- she dictated to her granddaughter and it said, "My most fervent wish is that I will not be replaced until a new president is installed."

By that she meant a new president post-election. She knew what was to come. Her death will have profound consequences for the court and country. Inside the court, the court has lost the leader of the liberal wing. Chief Justice John Roberts no longer holds the controlling vote in some of the closely contested cases, like about DACA or the census, where he has cast a deciding vote, voting in those cases with the liberal justices or himself writing the court's opinion.

But he would have a fifth vote and more. In all likelihood, the court will either be at loggerheads in a tie vote.

[04:40:00]

TOTENBERG: Or Republicans will be able to muscle through a nomination from President Trump to replace Ginsburg. Which is clearly something she did not want. (END AUDIO CLIP)

ALLEN: Next, we turn to other news. University students in Thailand are demanding changes at the highest levels. The risks they are taking in speaking out. We will take you to their rally and protests live.

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ALLEN: We want to take you live to Bangkok, Thailand, where large crowds of people are taking part in anti-government and anti-monarchy protests at Thailand's Thammasat University.

Protesters are demanding the removal of the prime minister and changes to the constitution and reforms to the monarchy, which is a normally taboo topic in the country. For more, we will go to Jonathan Miller in Bangkok, a reporter with ITN.

Jonathan, thank you so much.

How did this protest movement arise?

Tell our viewers how unprecedented this is in Thailand, where it is illegal to even criticize the monarchy.

JONATHAN MILLER, JOURNALIST: Natalie, welcome to what the Thais like to call the land of smiles. In the recent weeks and months, there has been an outpouring of anger by students toward what they see as the incompetent and corrupt dictatorship of a government and increasingly the protests are targeting the monarch himself who has been not only unaccountable but untouchable.

He spends most of his time in Germany. He is not here at the moment. You see the grand palace behind me. The king is protected by some of the most strict anti-defamation laws in the world and sedition laws, used in recent weeks to round up student leaders and lawyers. Now all this has happened quickly.

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MILLER: It is not that the government is caught flatfooted. It has been seen coming.

The question is how far are the students going to go and what is the government going to do about it?

They are looking increasingly panicked.

ALLEN: Yes, Jonathan, how dangerous is this for the students?

Do they fear arrest?

Could that happen? MILLER: Absolutely, they fear arrest, Natalie. There have been a number of arrests already. This is unlike past protests in Thailand, which range between anti-monarchists and pro-royalist people.

These are the sons and daughters of the Bangkok business elite. The government is between a rock and hard place deciding about how to handle it. If they crack down hard, it will not end well.

This protest movement is showing signs of gathering momentum. The very place where the protest is happening today is symbolic. It is Thammasat University, right in the heart of royalist Bangkok.

It was here 44 years ago that right-wing paramilitary and royalist supporters carried out a massacre in which at least 45 students died. There were lynchings on this compound. Nobody wants that to happen. But here in Bangkok right now, anything can happen.

ALLEN: And I was also reading that this all started with one young female student.

What do we know about her?

MILLER: Yes. The young female student you are referring to -- broke out slightly -- this is a rumor. She is a student at Thammasat, ranks at the university compound inside Bangkok. But what she did was ramp things up massively.

On the 10th of August, what she did, is instead of talking about the end of dictatorship, she unfurled a 10-point charter calling for royal reform. This is something that has not done in Thailand before. This is uncharted territory.

This is why the government is in such a difficult position. It might be a dictatorship but the man who calls the shots is the king. And we don't know what he is thinking.

ALLEN: We appreciate your reporting. We will continue to follow this. As you say, the fallout could be interesting. Jonathan Miller, thank you.

We are hearing more from the outgoing U.S. ambassador to China after the announcement he would be stepping down. Terry Branstad is laying the blame for the coronavirus pandemic on Beijing. Here is what he told David Culver in the exclusive interview.

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TERRY BRANSTAD, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: The Chinese system is such that they covered it up and they even penalized the doctors that were pointing it out from the very beginning. The result was what could have been contained in Wuhan ended up becoming a worldwide pandemic.

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Trump's approach has been a little bit all over the place, to be quite honest. We saw he was saying that President Xi was a good friend and a gentleman, complimenting his leadership even as the outbreak was starting. Now he has not criticized President Xi by name but he's slamming China and the party.

BRANSTAD: The president has been called -- there has been more telephone contact between Trump and Xi than any other American president with a Chinese leader. Initially, I think President Trump believed the Chinese when they said what they said about the virus.

Then he and the rest of the world found out that what they said was not true. And misinformation and coverups occurred. And the result was we are faced with a worldwide pandemic. It is really, I think, the Communist system of China and their unwillingness to admit wrongdoing that caused this whole thing to happen.

CULVER: As you point out, in some ways, President Trump has been tough on China. Specifically with trade.

However, when you look at all of the other issues here, is this a diplomatic failure?

BRANSTAD: Actually what happens is China, because of its actions in these areas, the mistreatment of the Uyghurs, what they've done in Hong Kong, South China Sea, they've alienated a lot of people in the rest of the world.

India, which has been a neutral country, what they've done to India has caused them real problems. The misinformation they put out throughout the world and their wolf warrior approach toward the COVID virus has reduced the respect people have for China.

CULVER: You are going back to campaign?

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CULVER: Is it fair to say that?

BRANSTAD: My focus is primarily to share with the American people what this administration has done, with bipartisan support, by the way, to take a tough stand against the unfairness we've had in China for so long that we are now working to get fairness and reciprocity in trade but also in access for our diplomats and for our media.

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ALLEN: Ruth Bader Ginsburg's rise to the U.S. Supreme Court is a story that inspired generations. Next, one of her former law clerks remembers RBG as her idol.

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ALLEN: Back to our breaking news story, Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died at the age of 87. Flags at the Capitol and White House are flying at half staff. Ginsburg was known especially for her work on gender equality. Her death could now shift the balance of power further to the Right in the highest court of the land.

She was nominated to the Supreme Court by President Bill Clinton and sworn in on August 10th, 1993.

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ALLEN: She died Friday at her home in Washington surrounded by her family.

Amanda Tyler is a U.S. Supreme Court expert ad a law professor at the UC Berkeley School of Law. She served as a law clerk to Ms. Ginsburg. Here is what she said about her legacy to Anderson Cooper.

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AMANDA TYLER, FORMER GINSBURG LAW CLERK: She was resilient, she was tenacious and she was a fighter. My favorite image of her is of her holding up her fists in a mock fighting mode during her confirmation proceedings. I think that is Ruth Bader Ginsburg in a nutshell.

She was determined. She was not going to let anything stop her from achieving her full human potential. And she has made it her -- she made it her -- I'm sorry. I hesitate when it becomes past tense.

She made it her life's work to make sure that everyone could have the opportunity to live up to their full human potential. That's what she was about.

And that's pretty special. She left an enormous legacy. She made our country better. And she did it first as an advocate and then as a judge. And I think it was the drive to contribute, to leave the world a better place than she found it that kept her going right up until the end.

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ALLEN: Thank you for watching this hour. I'm Natalie Allen. More on the life of this amazing woman and leader just ahead here on CNN.