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Coronavirus Surge across Europe; Remembering Justice Ginsburg; McMaster on Troop Withdrawal. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired September 21, 2020 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[09:33:13]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's take a live look at the market here. You've got the Dow just after the open off 445 points. Futures were sharply down this morning. Soaring coronavirus cases in Europe just -- and here in the U.S., just reminding everyone that we are not yet around the corner in this pandemic. We'll keep an eye on the markets and bring you any updates.
Jim.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, as Poppy mentioned, after successfully, or relatively successfully, tamping down the first surge of coronavirus, Europe is now seeing a dangerous second wave with new daily cases reaching record highs. British officials say that they are going in the wrong direction, obviously, and a second national lockdown in the U.K. may be necessary.
CNN's Scott McLean joins us now from London.
Scott, they've resisted and the U.K.'s had a whole host of responses of this, right? I mean early on there was talk of just going for herd immunity. What are officials talking about right now and what do they say is behind the surge?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a good question, Jim. You know, a couple weeks ago the answer would have been young people. Now it's not quite as simple. And so while you have President Trump saying in the U.S. they're rounding the corner on the pandemic, here in the U.K., health officials were pretty blunt, saying this country has turned a corner in a bad way, meaning things have gotten worse.
Last week the U.K. imposed new restrictions on social gatherings and even in some parts of the country effectively banned almost all in- person socializing with people outside of your own household. But a week later it's not so clear whether or not those measures have had so much of an impact. Health officials announced this morning that the virus is doubling every seven days. If that trajectory were to continue, that would mean that the U.K. could see some 50,000 cases per day in just four weeks. That would be more than even the U.S. has. By mid-November, this country could be seeing more than 200 deaths per day. So to avoid that kind of a situation, officials here have promised to
crack down on -- you know, or enforce -- better enforce the rules that are in place right now, particularly around quarantine, which up until this point enforcement has been pretty lax if there's been any at all. In fact, a survey from the summer showed that only one out of every five people who were actually meant to quarantine were actually doing so. And so the government clearly wanting to turn the tide and the health secretary being quite clear that if people can't follow the rules, well, more stringent ones could come, maybe even that second national lockdown.
Jim.
SCIUTTO: Yes, Dr. Fauci said very early on, that the virus sets the timeline, and we're seeing that here.
Scott McLean, thanks very much.
Poppy.
HARLOW: Scott, thank you.
Well, those Coved cases are also surging in France and across Spain.
Let's go to Melissa Bell. She joins us this morning from Paris.
Good morning.
I mean from what I've been reading and sort of seeing in the pictures of, you know, people gathering in groups along the (INAUDIBLE), et cetera, the real big concern from the WHO head in Europe is young people spreading this.
[09:35:09]
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, they've very much been behind, Poppy, this surge in the numbers here on the European continent. We've seen, over the course of this summer, in August, and the beginning of September, a very clear mapping of these rises, France, Spain, Italy, but also countries that hadn't been so hit by the first wave, Croatia and Greece, essentially all that Mediterranean basin (ph). And people had headed off on their holiday and they've gotten sick. And it was especially the young that were responsible for that surge.
Now we're seeing something new and perhaps even more worrying, as people have come back from their holidays, as the young have continued to go out and they've gone back to school, back to work, it is the big, urban centers. Places like Paris, Madrid that are seeing incredibly fast rises, increasingly worrying.
We've seen another record hit over the course of the weekend here in Paris. And in Madrid, something quite new, those sort of lockdown measures that we'd seen applied nationally this time applied to a city simply because they realized that that's where the largest number of rises were happening. So 850,000 people in the Spanish capital find themselves from today, Poppy, under lockdown, only those people in that part of the city, the sort of lockdown that we saw back in March.
And I think this is something you're going to like -- see more and more across the European continent. We just heard Scott a moment ago saying how the British have not excluded the idea of a second national lockdown. Well, here in Europe, a number of governments, including the French, have said, look, we're just not going to go down that road because the economy would be hit hard and they simply can't cope.
I think you're likely to see powers handed to local authorities as we've seen in France and cities making their own decisions about lockdowns, Poppy.
HARLOW: I think so.
Melissa Bell in Paris for us, thank you very much.
Up next, we're going to be joined by a former law clerk for Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. She's here to remember and honor the late justice's life, legacy and, of course, that notorious spirit.
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[09:41:29]
HARLOW: Welcome back.
As the battle rages on Capitol Hill over who will fill the late Justice Ginsburg's seat, of course we're also remembering her life and her legacy.
With us now is Gillian Metzger. She clerked for Justice Ginsburg in the late '90s.
She's one of the first clerks. You were there and now you're a constitutional law professor at Ginsburg's alma mater, Columbia.
Good to have you. Thanks for being here.
GILLIAN METZGER, CLERKED FOR JUSTICE GINSBURG FROM 1997-1998: Thank you for having me.
HARLOW: Of course.
You know, you've talked about how she was a role model for you in life and in law and you've talked and written about her precision, which was so striking to me, and that she put care into every comma. Your "Times" op-ed over the weekend was really moving. The headline, her black coffee always brewed strong.
What is the most important lesson she taught you, aside from her endless -- endless hard work? I know you said she worked harder -- she asked you to work hard but she would work even harder. But what about the life lessons?
METZGER: Well, the life lessons were quite important. I mean at the time when I was sort of coming into my professional life and, you know, you wanted to have a family, you know you wanted to have a career, how you would marry those two things. I think it's actually honestly a constant challenge for women that I know today. And you saw in the justice someone who had done that, who had had this incredible career and had also had a family. And the key to it that she always said was your partner and having an equal partnership.
HARLOW: Yes.
METZGER: The one that -- the amazing marriage that she had with Marty. And that was an important lesson to see, both to see how someone could do that but also to see what it took to be able to do that.
HARLOW: And famously saying, you can have it all but not all at once, which I think we all are living and know is pretty true.
METZGER: Yes.
HARLOW: I was struck by what she told me about her mother. I interviewed her about two years ago also at Columbia and she said this about her mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTICE RUTH BADER GINSBURG, SUPREME COURT: When I talk about my mother, I sometimes ask the question, what is the difference between a bookkeeper in the gowman (ph) district and a Supreme Court justice? One generation. My mother's life and mine.
HARLOW: Wow.
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HARLOW: Do you think that in many ways she was trying to be able to accomplish what her mother, who was also a brilliant woman, couldn't because of the times?
METZGER: I think that she was keenly aware of the limitations that her mother faced because of the times, because of her life. And her mother's early death also was, of course, one of the -- one of the very sad moments in the justice's life.
And I -- so I do think that she -- that experience gave her that kind of real understanding of what sex and equality meant in life.
HARLOW: Yes.
METZGER: And if you look at the justice's opinion, and I do think that this is why they speak so much to people, is that she insisted on showing how sex discrimination harms people in everyday life. And that's partially, I think, why she used --
HARLOW: So --
METZGER: Sorry. Yes.
HARLOW: Yes. No, just to your point, I -- you know, we talked so much about gender equality and women's rights with her, but it was about taking women out of that cage or off that pedestal, right, to quote Breyer, but also it was about equality for men as well, right, just ask Stephen Weissenfeld (ph).
[09:45:02]
And I think that's -- that's such an important point that gets a bit missed.
METZGER: No, I think that's exactly right. I think she wanted to show both sides are harmed by this. It's not just a women's issue. It's a human issue. It's a human equality and liberty issue. And that really drove her litigation strategy and just drove how she understood the challenge of women's equality.
HARLOW: When you -- you interviewed her a few times, I believe it was back in your interview with her in 2013, when you asked her about Roe versus Wade. And I bring up that '73 decision now because the future of abortion rights in this country are in question depending on where this seat goes, et cetera.
Can you explain to people who may be confused when they read or they hear that she actually didn't think that Roe was decided in the right way in terms of how quickly it moved and how the court took it up, because of where we are now. Wasn't she very concerned that the way it was done would lead to it being chipped away at later on?
METZGER: Yes, I mean she -- if you -- one thing not to lose track of is, of course, that she was an advocate, so she was very careful and thoughtful about advocacy strategy. And her approach was that you had to build incrementally, you had to get the public aware and behind the campaign that you were doing. And if you got too far ahead too fast, then the changes you're trying to seek would not necessarily stick.
And you saw that in her litigation strategy. She, you know, told me in another conversation once that there were some cases they didn't take because it was just too soon.
HARLOW: Yes.
METZGER: Some issues about women in the military. You just -- you just couldn't do.
And so I think that was what was underlying her concern that Roe came too far and too complete at once, but I also think that what she felt was missing from the early descriptions of Roe was its deep connection to women's equality. That's something that I think has come into the law in later years, but for someone who really focuses on women's equality, the real issue was that if you can't control when and whether you have a child, you can never actually achieve that full citizenship stature that you wanted for both men and women.
HARLOW: Gillian, it's really nice to have you. I'm sorry for your loss. Obviously she was a friend as well.
METZGER: Thank you. HARLOW: Thank you so much for your time.
METZGER: Thank you.
HARLOW: All right, we'll be right back.
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[09:52:28]
HARLOW: President Trump's former national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, with a warning for the U.S. He says, quote, terrorist organizations who pose a threat to us are now stronger than they were on September 10, 2001.
SCIUTTO: Yes, we're going to speaking to him on this broadcast later this week. The retired three-star general told "60 Minutes," the president's new policy in Afghanistan essentially is, quote, partnering with the Taliban against, in many ways, the Afghan government. Calls it unwise. A remarkable statement.
Let's go to CNN national -- senior national security correspondent Alex Marquardt.
Alex, McMaster, deliberately with this book, was trying to avoid politics. I mean he says it -- he says it sort of very much up front. But on these issues that are very close to his heart, force presence in Europe, force presence in Afghanistan, I mean he could not hold back the criticism.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, McMaster was hesitant to talk about what happened behind the scenes with his old boss, but he was ready to criticize the president for pulling U.S. troops out of areas that McMaster believes they should remain, like Germany and Afghanistan. Remember, McMaster had pushed for more U.S. troops in Afghanistan initially. He was successful. The president then reversed that. McMaster now telling "60 Minutes" we kind of forgot about Afghanistan, and he is critical in his new book about the ongoing peace talks with the Taliban, saying that they have cheapened the sacrifice of the more than 2,000 Americans who have died in the war in Afghanistan.
Take a listen to part of what he had to say last night.
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H.R. MCMASTER, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think what he did with this new policy is he, in effect, is partnering with the Taliban against, in many ways, the Afghan government. And so I think that it's an unwise policy and I think what we require in Afghanistan is a sustained commitment to help the Afghan government and help the Afghan security forces continue to bear the brunt of this fight.
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MARQUARDT: And, Jim and Poppy, as you noted at the top, he also talked about the terrorist threat against the United States. And when comparing it to the terrorists who attacked the U.S. on 9/11, he says that their successors in al Qaeda and ISIS are orders of magnitude greater and have access to much more destructive capabilities than their predecessors.
Jim and Poppy.
HARLOW: Before you go, and it was such a striking interview, and I know, Jim, you're going to interview him on Wednesday, which will be great. It's a fascinating, fascinating book that he laid out.
Before you go, Alex, what can we expect in the president's speech tomorrow at the U.N. General Assembly?
MARQUARDT: Well, as you both know, the U.N. General Assembly happens every year at this time.
[09:55:01]
It's a pilgrimage for leaders from all over the world descending on New York. This will be a UNGA unlike any other. It is expected to be almost entirely virtual with pre-recorded speeches from those world leaders. The president is going first tomorrow morning. And one thing that he is expected to talk about, although the White House really hasn't given many details, is these so-called snap-back sanctions, the re-imposition of U.N. sanctions on Iran that had been lifted because of the nuclear deal.
HARLOW: Right.
MARQUARDT: That has been -- that was announced over the weekend by Secretary Mike Pompeo. But the other members of the U.N. Security Council say that the U.S. cannot do it alone and that the move is legally void.
Jim. Poppy.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And, meanwhile, news that Iran is much closer to a nuclear weapon than it was prior as well.
Alex Marquardt, thanks very much.
Coronavirus cases, they're spiking this morning more than half of the U.S. Why is this happening now? And, crucially, what can be done to stop it?
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