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CDC Abruptly Reverses Guidance On How Coronavirus Is Transmitted; Arizona Senate Race Suddenly Most Consequential In Court Battle; Trump Reverses View On Supreme Court Selection In Election Year. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 21, 2020 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar, and I want to welcome viewers in the United States and around the world.

We are beginning with breaking news coming out of the CDC, the agency abruptly reverting to its previous guidance about how coronavirus is transmitted, removing references to airborne transmission that it had posted just days earlier.

I want to bring in CNN's Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen who is joining us now. This is key, Elizabeth. This is supposed to be consistent, even if it changes over time, this flip-flopping back and forth, what's happening here?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, I have to tell you, this is extremely unusual. I've been covering the CDC for the better part of 30 years, I have never seen this. I have never seen them put up guidance and then three days later say, oh, that was a mistake, we're taking it down and we're reverting back to the old guidance. This is really, really unusual and very surprising.

Let's talk a little bit about the old and the new guidance and then now we're back to the old. We'll start with the old guidance. The way -- what the CDC has been saying for months is that coronavirus is spread between two people who are within six feet apart, that that's the main way that it spreads. So, in other words, someone sneezes on you, they cough on you, they spit on you a little bit.

What they said on Friday was, actually, we think particles could be suspended in the air, droplets could be suspended in the air, which means they could float around, which means you don't have to be within six feet. It means that even if you're not within six feet, you could catch coronavirus from someone because those droplets are just floating around in the air.

That's what they posted on Friday. And they even gave recommendations for how to deal with that situation. And then just before noon today they said, oh, we didn't mean to post that. We've taken it down. It sort of leaves you wondering what's going on. I will give you my best bottom line right now, Brianna. In April, the National Academy of Sciences, a highly respected, very prestigious group of scientists, wrote to the White House saying this kind airborne transmission, these floating particles was for real, that this really happened. So if these scientists were saying this back in April and no one has disputed that since then, in fact, everybody -- if anything scientists have jumped on saying, yes, this is true, it does appear that this is a way that this can be spread. Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes. And that's really not helpful to people who are trying to figure out how they go about their daily lives and stay safe. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for that breaking news.

I want to bring in CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen, who is an E.R. doctor at George Washington University. So, Dr. Wen, the nation, of course, is reaching this 200,000 death mark in the U.S. And it's just kind of staggering that this many months out, especially considering it's not an issue of changing knowledge necessarily about what's going on, it's confusing guidance from the CDC. What do you make of this?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It's extremely confusing and that type of whiplash, especially without an explanation directly from the CDC, creates confusion and unfortunately leads to lack of trust in the CDC overall. I mean, we do expect guidance over time to change based on new science and new research.

And in this case, there's growing evidence about aerosol transmission that coronavirus is not something that's transmitted only through these large respiratory droplets. We have known for some time that it's transmitted through these much smaller aerosols that you expel just by breathing and speaking. This is the reason why we've been advising on masks, on distancing, on ventilation.

So I was glad when I saw the CDC guidelines first appear on Friday. Although we need to say that they didn't have a press conference. It's not as if they announced this change, it just appeared on the website. But the fact that they retracted this even though this is common scientific knowledge at this point, one has to wonder what's behind it. Was there political pressure, political interference that's driving this rather than science?

KEILAR: And we know that there -- because of reporting, good reporting that CNN has confirmed, we know that when it comes to the CDC, there has been interference on guidance from political appointees wanting to have guidance be a certain way and career scientists thinking that's not accurate, that doesn't match science to have guidance be a certain way.

[13:05:01]

So knowing that that's the environment that we are in, this is a relatively new report from last week, what are your concerns about whether what is on the website is actually what people need to know how to behave or it's something that is tracking more closely to a number of political officials in the U.S., including the president, wanting states, businesses, schools to reopen? WEN: The last thing that we need in the middle of this pandemic is this type of confusion. There was the whiplash that we saw around testing for asymptomatic individuals. And to be clear, the coronavirus is something that can be transmitted by individuals who don't show any symptoms.

And yet there was confusion about that I think has also led individuals, to testing sites, potentially turning away people, insurance companies also having some confusion about reimbursement. I mean, it's caused a lot of problems.

And now, I fear that this is happening again when it comes to the mode of transmission for coronavirus. This is something that can be transmitted through aerosols, through the airborne way. And the sooner we can recognize that, the more to put into place mitigation measures that help to improve people's safety.

That's what it's about at the errand of the day. It's not about politics. It's not about what looks good. It's about following the science so that we can reduce the number of infections and reduce deaths.

KEILAR: I want to turn now, speaking of that, to the current numbers that we are seeing on the pandemic today. There are actually signs that we may be starting to see this Labor Day surge that health experts had warned us about.

You have the nation's average of new cases in a single day ticking up now to just above 41,000. You can see that in the graph as we're moving up with the increase. More than half of the country, that's 28 states, are seeing a trend of more new infections than they had the week before.

But the president is giving himself the highest marks for his response to the pandemic despite knowing since at least February just how dangerous the coronavirus is.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're rounding the corner with or without a vaccine. They hate it when I say that but that's the way it is. We are rounding the corner of the pandemic and we have done a phenomenal job, not just a good job, a phenomenal job. Other than public relations but that's because I have fake news. I can't -- you can't convince them of anything. They are fake.

But we have done -- on public relations, I give myself a D. On the job itself, we take an A+.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Just to fact check that we aren't rounding the turn. Or if we are, it's like between turns one and two, okay? We're not -- this isn't the end of the race here. But he is grading himself an A+. What grade would you give him? WEN: An F. All we have to do is look at the fact that we have about 200,000 deaths in the U.S. And we're going to have 200,000 more deaths by the end of the year if we go on the trajectory that we are at. And none of this had to be this way.

Maybe you could say at the beginning of the pandemic that mistakes were made, hindsight is 20/20 but we have known about the importance of a national coordinated response. We have known for many months now that this mixed messaging has been actively destructive towards our procedures and our progress as a country.

We have known for many months now about quarantining, about isolation, about all these basic public health measures, mask-wearing, that the president has not been supporting. And we still don't have a national strategy. We are not anywhere close to turning the corner.

But it didn't have to be this way and it doesn't have to be this way going forward. But, unfortunately, it is heading in this direction given the leadership that the Trump administration unfortunately has not exhibited.

KEILAR: Yes, nothing is changing. It is incredibly frustrating. Dr. Leana Wen, thank you so much.

In just seven months, America is on the verge of losing more than 200,000 lives to the coronavirus. For perspective, that is three NFL stadiums worth of mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, daughters sons and friends, three. That is more than the number of Americans who died in World War I, the Vietnam War, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq combined in just seven months.

And as the nation continues to divide itself, millions of Americans worry they or their loved ones are next and they're grieving those who are gone.

Jonathan Coelho, a 32-year-old husband and father, who wrote a goodbye note to his family before he died, which his wife later found on his phone.

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KATIE COELHO, WIFE OF JONATHAN COELHO: It breaks my heart and I know he was so scared to miss out on them growing up and he didn't go feeling like he had done everything he needed to do. I know he left feeling scared and not wanting to go.

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KEILAR: Barbara Birchenough, a nurse, just days away from retirement when she was admitted to the same hospital where she cared for patients.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She took so much joy and happiness of others and in our happiness and our success, and that was most important to her. [13:10:05]

We are just so proud of all she did and we're so fortunate to have had her as long as we did. But we will certainly miss her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Brittany Ringo, just 32 years old, a beloved sister whose family says she had a kind heart.

James Means Jr., a 73-year-old dad and husband whose family says his best quality was that he was a good listener.

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MINDA MEANS, WIFE JAMES MEANS JR.: We've been married 53 years, and he was a workaholic. I used to tell him, look, you owe me Fridays and Fridays are my days and that had been our date day up until he passed. And we would go to the movies and he would always take me out to eat, which I loved to do. He's my best friend.

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KEILAR: Augusto Valderas, 58, he had a wife, he had three children. They described him as a family man. He was a social worker and a youth basketball coach.

Benjamin Bush Jr., another youth coach, 42 years old, a married father of four.

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ANGELA BUSH, WHIFE OF BENJAMIN BUSH JR.: Children just naturally gravitated towards him. He was just like a big kid himself. He was able to relate to them, be on their level no matter what level of skills the children had, whether they were just beginning, new to the team or they were the more experienced players. He was ability to connect with them.

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KEILAR: Hucey Mead (ph) was a grandfather whose family planted a tree in his honor.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was the best papa that anybody could ever ask for. They had rap (ph). He would do anything from playing dress-up, tea parties, riding bikes or trying to ride a bike.

I miss his hugs. He had a way of like when you hugged him kind of like all of your stress is kind of released, like you felt safe. It was weird. Now, I don't feel so safe. He's not here to give me that hug either.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Joe Lewinger, a 42-year-old husband who wrote his wife letters and left them in her lunchbox each day.

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MAURA LEWINGER, WIFE OF JOE LEWINGER: I finally talked to a nurse and her words to me were, we have thrown the kitchen sink at him and I'm afraid he doesn't have any more time. And so I said, then I need to be on FaceTime again. I need to be with him. And she did and I thanked him.

I thanked him for being the most amazing husband and for making me feel cherished and loved every single day. And then the doctor took the phone. And he said, I'm sorry but there's no more pulse. And then I played our wedding song for him. So I was with him when he passed.

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KEILAR: John Herman Clomax, a 62-year-old storyteller whose family describes him as a trail blazer on Wall Street.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He would give like these bear hugs that were like literally lift you up off the ground. When we were kids, he was always saying, I'm going to buy a house and mom a house and we used to be like, yes, John, but, you know, he managed to do that.

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KEILAR: Reza Shah (ph) Chowdhury, a doctor whose kids remember their dad bringing home gifts from his patients.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we were ever at like a wedding or some kind of like big party, he was always just like dance crazily.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just the things that he does that would normally like just make me cringe or whatever, like those are the things that I miss the most.

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KEILAR: Bernice Greene, a mother that loved to shop so that she could give to others.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The hardest thing is because I talk to my mom probably two or three times a day, once in the morning and once at night. She taught me what unconditional love is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We miss her. We got hole in our heart. Best friend.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Conrad Buchanan, a 39-year-old father and a D.J. who loved dancing with his daughter.

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NICOLE BUCHANAN, WIFE OF CONRAD BUCHANAN: There is no discrimination when it comes to this virus. And seeing what my husband had to go through was horrible. I bought him to the hospital and never saw him again. I never got to say I love you, nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we always liked to watch the Flash together. We just like shared everything. He brought me to school. He brought me to ballet, like he was my everything. I thought he was pretty cool.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: This is a nation of families grieving and sadly there is no end in sight as we are heading deeper into the fall.

[13:15:05]

Just to add the situation overseas is getting serious as cases are doubling in the U.K.

Plus, the historic fight over whether President Trump gets to fill Justice Ginsburg's seat may hinge on the outcome of a Senate race. And if Republicans succeed in this battle, Obamacare will likely be struck down. So what happens to millions of Americans who rely on it?

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KEILAR: The state of Arizona has suddenly become a player in the political collision between the November election and the nomination fight over Justice Ginsburg's open seat on the high court. The U.S. Senate race between Republican incumbent Martha McSally and her Democratic challenger, Mark Kelly, may be the most consequential in this Supreme Court battle.

[13:20:04]

McSally was appointed to finish the term of the late Senator John McCain and she is now running in a special election to hold on to the seat permanently but she's trailing in the polls. According to the Arizona Republic, if Mark Kelly wins, state law could send him to Capitol Hill by the end of November, which could give the Democrats one more Senate seat and a possible leg-up in this nomination fight.

Yvonne Wingett Sanchez is the National Political Reporter for the Arizona Republic and she is joining us now. Thank you so much for being with us.

Tell us what is shaping up, how is this race shaping up right now? What's it like from the ground? What are people saying?

YVONNE WINGETT SANCHEZ, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, ARIZONA REPUBLIC: Sure. All indications are that the race is potentially tightening up a little bit. Mark Kelly, who is a former NASA astronaut and is the husband of former Arizona Representative Gabrielle Giffords, has been leading in the polls for months now and by pretty wide margins.

Martha McSally, who was appointed following the death of John McCain and (INAUDIBLE) by Senator Jon Kyl, she is running for the seat, she is running behind. And since Ginsburg's death, she spent a lot of time over the weekend talking a lot about how consequential this seat is.

I would expect Mark Kelly to play up over the next several months or weeks now, really, how consequential the Supreme Court pick could have on health care, which has been cornerstone of his argument to voters since entering the race last year, and on climate change, which is something that he has been talking a lot about, particularly from his unique vantage point. He's talked a lot about how he's seen the earth change from space.

So expect both candidates to really kind of play this up but really differently. Martha McSally is often talking about how this seat could really stand in the way of Republicans majority in the Senate, and by all measures, she is right.

KEILAR: And I wonder, with this vacancy on the court, is this a problem for McSally? Who does that play to more or is it even clear at this point in time? Is this a better argument for McSally to have that she would serve this role in assuring a nomination?

SANCHEZ: I think it's really important to remember that McSally and Republicans here in Arizona have been talking a lot for years now about the conservative judges that they have installed on the federal judiciary. That has not really been a message that has resonated in a meaningful way with moderate Republicans and potential swing voters who have the ability to really tip this race.

Back in 2018, when she wasn't in the Senate but when she was running for former Senator Jeff Flake's seat, in the final stretch of that campaign, she talked a lot about why it was important to seat Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court, and yet she lost that race by 2.3 percentage points or about 90,000 votes. So she needs to pick up those people that she lost in 2018 or find new voters along the margins and in the suburbs of Maricopa County. And all indications are that Mark Kelly is still winning with those voters.

KEILAR: Yes, she has an uphill battle here.

Yvonne Wingett Sanchez, thank you so much for being with us.

SANCHEZ: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: So, will Republicans have enough votes? The White House will join me live next.

Plus, two red carpet hosts testing positive for the coronavirus just before they were scheduled to be on the air for the Emmys.

And breaking news, the Dow falling hard as fears of a second coronavirus wave rattle the markets.

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[13:25:00]

KEILAR: The president's decision on a nominee to replace Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg will come Friday or Saturday. With only 43 days until the election, he is moving at warp speed. But in 2016, then candidate Donald Trump had a much different view about who should make the call on a Supreme Court nominee during an election year.

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TRUMP: Because I think the next president should make the pick and I think they shouldn't go forward and I believe -- I'm pretty much in line with what the Republicans are saying. I think that the next president should make the pick. We don't have a very long distance to wait. Certainly, they could wait it out very easily, but I think the next president should make the pick. I would be not in favor of going forward.

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KEILAR: I want bring in White House Deputy Communications and Deputy Press Secretary Brian Morgenstern. Brian, thanks for coming on.

BRIAN MORGENSTERN, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR AND DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: My pleasure, nice to be with you.

KEILAR: So you heard the president then candidate Donald Trump saying it himself, the next president should make the pick. So why has he changed his mind this time?

MORGENSTERN: Well, it's a different scenario this time. The Republican majority, which was expanded in 2018, running on confirming constitutionalist judges is in charge, that the president and the Senate of the same party over history.

[13:30:00]

There have been 19 such vacancies, 17 of them have been confirmed.