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Trump Falsely Claims Virus Not Dangerous to Young People; U.S. Closes in on Grim Milestone of 200,000 Deaths; Trump Says He'll Reveal Nominee on Saturday. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 22, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: The president says he will reveal his Supreme Court pick on Saturday. And a swift confirmation now appears very, very likely. The Republican Judiciary Committee chairman promises a full set in vote before Election Day. And two GOP senators viewed as potential obstacles to that fast-track approach, Mitt Romney of Utah and Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia, said today, they are onboard with the president's plan.

There's also quite a crowded day on the campaign trail. We are now six weeks from today. We count the votes. President Trump heading to battleground Pennsylvania today. Vice President Pence headlines a big New Hampshire rally. Kamala Harris, the vice-presidential nominee in the Democratic side is in battleground Michigan.

But we begin this hour with a new interview and new warnings from Dr. Anthony Fauci.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: What worries me the most -- what worries me is that in those areas of the country which is a large country heterogenous in many ways, if you don't have the control now as we get towards the end of September of getting such a low percentage that it is entirely manageable. We know we could get into serious trouble if we don't do certain things. And I hope that that understanding is not going to frighten people but will jolt them into realizing that it is within our hands to prevent that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Dr. Fauci says a false slide into more hospitalizations and more death is not, in his view, inevitable but the metrics this morning simply do not look good. Just under 40,000 new infections per day on average right. Only six states right now pushing down their infections curve.

Fauci -- Dr. Fauci also taking issue with CDC guidelines. He says you can be certain, quote, "some transmission of coronavirus comes through particles in the air." And Dr. Fauci calling this "sobering" and "stunning." Those are his words. The United States now just shy. Just shy of 200,000 coronavirus deaths. 200,000 American lives lost, 35 times the number of casualties the country suffered in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is within shouting distance of the number of Americans who perished in four years of bloody civil war, but listen to the president telling a rally crowd last night, "nobody died," he says, "who wasn't already at risk."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It affects elderly people. You know, in some states thousands of people, nobody young, below the age of 18 like nobody. It affects virtually nobody. It's an amazing thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The Democratic nominee Joe Biden last night asking voters to pay no attention to the president and please do not forgot the cost, 200,000 lives. Joe Biden says that is because of the administration's poor response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We've been living with this pandemic for so long. I worry we're risking becoming numb to the toll it has taken on us. You can't lose the ability to feel the sorrow and the loss and the anger for so many lives lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So many lives lost is right. The question now is which direction are we headed? Let's take a look at the latest trends when you go through it. And this is simply bad news. There's no other way to cast it.

Red and orange are bad, and you see a lot of red and orange. What does that mean? States heading in the wrong direction. More new infections now than a week ago.

Eight states reporting 50 percent more new infections this week compared to the data last week, eight. 50 percent, 16 reporting between 10 percent and 50 percent, higher infection rate this week than last week.

Look at that. 24 states heading in the wrong direction right now. 20 holding steady. Only six states reporting fewer infections this week.

Let's just take a look. Remember all this red, right? This is a month ago. One month ago, we were heading in a much better direction. We had 26 states trending down and only nine states trending up. This is what you want the map to look like. Green is better and very sad and sobering trend map at the moment as we head into fall.

Now let's take a look at the case curve. Where we are in new infections. This is troubling. Yesterday's number. Let hope it's a one-day blip. Yesterday's number back above 50,000. 52,000 new infections. New coronavirus infections reported in the United States yesterday. You see the trend line is heading back up.

We're averaging about 40,000 new infections a day. Yes, down from the summer surge but still more than double where we were heading into Memorial Day. This is the big question. Why couldn't we keep it down here? Why wasn't it pushed down more? Instead, we've gone through this painful summer and now into the fall of new infections here. And when you have all these new infections it is inevitable.

This map looks sad as well. 20 states reporting more deaths this week, more coronavirus deaths this week than the data a week ago. 20 trending up, nine steady, 21 trending down.

Here's where we sit, and this we thought this would happen yesterday. It's I suppose good news that it didn't but today the United States will hit 200,000 coronavirus deaths. We're just several away from it now. 200,000 coronavirus deaths.

And this is the question going forward. All that pain in the rearview mirror. How much pain is still to come? Well, if you look right here, you see 27 states in red on this map.

[11:05:01]

That means positivity rates increased. In 27 states, higher positivity rates in the coronavirus test this week heading into next week which puts us as a crossroads. That's what Dr. Fauci talked about today in that conversation with CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta. 200,000 deaths. Sad, stunning, sobering, Dr. Fauci says.

The question is will Americans do what it takes? Do what it takes to push this down. To push this case curve. Push the baseline down. That's what Dr. Fauci says is imperative.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: The idea of 200,000 deaths is really very sobering, and in some respects, stunning. We have the capability by doing things that we've been speaking about for so long, Sanjay, that could prevent the transmission. The universal wearing of masks, the attention to keeping distance, the avoiding of crowds, the trying to be outdoors more than indoors, frequent washing of hands. They sound so simple, Sanjay. We said them so many times, but they are not universally implemented and employed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now. Sanjay, it was a fascinating conversation. Dr. Fauci trying to urge Americans. Get it together now so that things don't get worse again. And I'm going to use my term being diplomatic, urging people to do things that are contrary to what the president of the United States keeps doing.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEFICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, you know, John, it was a - it was very unusual conversation because he is by nature a hopeful and optimistic person you know which is I think you know something that has been of benefit but this idea that so many of these deaths looking backward for a second could have been preventable deaths. I mean nobody likes to think of it like that because you know people whose families that I keep in regular touch with, who have lost family members, the idea that their loved ones death is described as preventable. I mean, that's heartbreaking, right, John? But there are, as you point out, significant things that can still be done now going forward so there are not more preventable deaths.

One of the big issues, John, is still this idea of just exactly how does the virus spread? I can tell you in the public health and scientific community for some time, the belief has been that this can spread like an aerosol, not just through respiratory droplets, think of it more like smoke, right? Like how smoke might move through an indoor space. I mean, it -- it can linger, it can move beyond six feet. That changes a lot of things in terms of how we think about the virus.

The CDC acknowledged that on Friday. Then they took that guidance down. It's a mess in terms of what people should believe, but I did ask Dr. Fauci about that specifically and here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: You can make a reasonable assumption, Sanjay, that some aspect of transmission can be and is by aerosol. The interesting thing about that is that it doesn't change anything that we've been saying. It the means wear your mask. It means avoid close contact. It means avoid crowds, and it means what we've been saying the third or four things that I mentioned to you just a little while ago is that outdoors is better than indoors because if you have aerosol, indoor, you can have some recirculation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: So, John, as he points out, Dr. Fauci, it doesn't really change what we should be doing which is wearing masks. But, John, you know, it's a situation if you believe that this could potentially be traveling by aerosol, wouldn't you wear a mask whenever you were indoors constantly? I mean, people say, well I'm six feet away, I don't need to wear the mask anymore. I think the idea of aerosol, what changes as a result that have belief is that you should wear a mask when you're indoors even if you're sort of keeping away from people. The virus can linger. It can us suspend and it can travel.

KING: I was also struck, Sanjay, in the conversation where you were politely asking Dr. Fauci about who gets hurt by this virus and in the context of the president in a way that is remarkably insensitive last night saying, you know, the only people who are getting really sick and the only people who are dying are those who are at risk. I am also so what attitude from the president of the United States last night. And Dr. Fauci was trying to clarify that.

GUPTA: Yes. He was pretty you know - pretty definitive on this. I said, look, my father watches. He's in Florida. He's in his late 70s. He's got heart disease. He hears this. It's just elderly people with heart disease.

I mean, first of all, how does it make him feel. And second of all, it's not just elderly people. Here's what Dr. Fauci said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: It's very disrespectful to me because I'm in my 70s. I'm like your father. I could be your father, Sanjay.

The thing we need to remember, Sanjay, that there are a number of people in our society of a substantial proportion who have underlying conditions. And if you look at the two groups that are at risk for serious conditions, is the elderly and people at any age with underlying conditions.

GUPTA: Right.

FAUCI: Underlining any age.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:10:05]

GUPTA: And as you know, John, I mean if you start talking about these pre-existing conditions. It's a significant percentage of the population that has some sort of preexisting condition. Bottomline is you don't want this disease. No matter your age. You don't want this disease. You don't know what it's going to do to you. How long the symptoms will last. And I think that's the point he was trying to make.

KING: Right. Every one of those numbers on that screen is a human being, a family member, a friend, a neighbor, a parent, a child, and they should all be trated with the utmost of respect. Dr. Gupta, it was a fascinating conversation. Thanks for joining us to share perspective on it with us.

We're noting, we will hit 200,000 American lives lost to the coronavirus. Today, President Trump still downplaying the virus and sometimes disrespecting its victims.

Joining me now to continue the conversation, Dr. Amesh Adalja. He is senior scholar at John Hopkins University for Health Security. Dr. Adalja, it's good to see you.

I want to start with something Dr. Fauci said in the conversation because he has been quite repetitive about this throughout the summer surge and now into the fall. 52,000 new coronavirus infections reported yesterday. Let's hope that's a one-day blip but the trendline is heading back up. And we got it below 40 and if it's starting to trend back up into the 50s we're in some trouble.

Listen to Dr. Fauci explaining why it's so important to him to shove down that baseline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) FAUCI: The metric for me is the concern I've had and continue to have for this baseline of cases that we have every day. When you have a lot of cases floating around, it's much more difficult to contain that. It's unacceptable to not realize that we -- that we are entering into a risk period and we've got to the act accordingly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: If you continue to have a concern and if you keep repeating yourself, that means what you're doing is not working, right?

DR. AMESH ADALJA, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: Yes, but it is simply true that we do have tens of thousands it of cases occurring every day, and people's behavior has been modified somewhat but people are still not realizing that we're in a pandemic which doesn't mean that you have to stay at home but means you have to be very mindful that the virus is with you, and take commonsense precautions. Wear a face covering. Try and avoid crowds.

All of that is really going to be important to try to get that number down because if you're a case contact investigator in the town, if you've got hundreds of cases occurring every day, you can't keep up. And eventually, chains of transmission will land on vulnerable people and put them in the hospital. And that's what we can't happen - let happen.

But this is what's become the new normal now. And I do think we have to prepare for acceleration in the fall when people can't be outdoors and that 40,000 may go up to - to an unsustainable level.

KING: I hope it doesn't turn out that way, but you're the expert on this and you have been right for months which is why we keep bringing you in. I want you to listen to the president last night because I was just making the point with Sanjay. Every one of those numbers, they are numbing. They are numbing. On the side of the screen is a human being, but the president making the case last night, he's handled the coronavirus very well. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Now we know that it affects elderly people, elderly people with heart problems and other problems. If they have other problems, that's what it really affects, that's it. You know, in some states, thousands of people, nobody young. Below the age of 18, like nobody. It affects virtually nobody. It's an amazing thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Nearly 7 million infections in the United States. We will hit 200,000 American deaths today. It's an amazing thing? It affects nobody, really? That's nuts.

ADALJA: Yes. This is completely backwards and wrong. And as what many things on coronavirus, the person not to listen to is the president because most things he says are misleading or outright lies about what this virus represented and what has happened to this country because of this virus.

Everybody is susceptible to infection. And while it is true that those who die or get hospitalized usually are older or have underlying conditions. We do have younger people who can be hospitalized and have died and have long haul symptoms.

So, this is as Dr. Gupta just said, something nobody should want to get. And I don't think that you can give the president or federal response this any kind of credit because they didn't have to be this way. We could have acted decisively in January, in February and March, instead of evading the problem. We could have been like Taiwan, but we took a different route and now we're all paying for it. And these consequences are very severe and will continue to be severe.

KING: Dr. Adalja, as always, grateful for your time and your expertise and insights. We'll talk to you again. I'm sure as we now head into the fall crossroads. The numbers are heading back up. Doctor, thank you so much.

Up next for us, we shift to the Supreme Court and full speed ahead. Senate Republicans believe they have the votes to fast-track the president's new Supreme Court nomination.

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[11:18:50]

KING: President Trump hopes to fill the Supreme Court vacancy before the November election, are getting a major boost today. Democrats need two more Republican votes to block swift action but those Democrats now quickly running out of options. Senator Mitt Romney said today he has no objection to acting quickly. And Senator Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia also supports swift Senate action. The Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham says he has the votes to move quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The nominee is going to be supported by every Republican in the Judiciary Committee. And we've got the votes to confirm the judge, the justice on the floor of the Senate before the election and that's what's coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The premium on speed requires that this process be historically quick, about four weeks, from start to finish.

Let's get straight up to Capitol Hill. CNN's Manu Raju. Manu, Senator Romney today, a lot of movement now in the president's favor today.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. A lot of momentum on the Republican side for quick confirmation, you named it. This will be one of the quickest confirmation proceedings in modern times. Typically, it's two to three months by the time the president names a nominee, probably on Saturday. We're about 38 days away from Election Day and the vote would happen before Election Day.

[11:20:00]

So, we're looking about a month's time to push this nominee through and behind the scenes Republicans are planning a quick confirmation fight. I just talked to Lindsey Graham, the Judiciary Committee chairman, he told me he is -- they are planning to move forward with October confirmation hearing, probably three days' worth of hearings and then votes will probably happen soon after.

John Thune, the Senate majority whip, told me this morning that he does believe they're going to push to have that vote before Election Day despite their own position in 2016 against moving forward when President Obama's nominee back in March of that year because they said at the time it was too close to the election. But nevertheless, they are pushing ahead. And they got that boost today from Mitt Romney who would yet to say what he would do and whether he would - could join calls to delay this vote or back the president. He made very clear, he's backing the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): The decision to proceed now with President Trump's nominee is also consistent with history. I came down on the side of the Constitution and precedent as I've studied it. It's also appropriate for a nation which is if you will, center right, to have a court which reflects center rights point of view which, again, are not changing the law from what it states but instead following the law and following the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And I asked Mitt Romney whether or not he would support a nomination vote, confirmation vote after the election if it were to slip after the election, even if Joe Biden were to win and that vote would happen in the lame duck session of Congress before the new Congress is sworn in, before a new president were sworn in. He indicated he didn't want to deal with that. He said that's speculation. But he made clear he's ready to vote and ready to vote before Election Day. John?

KING: The fast-track is about to begin. CNN's Manu Raju, a very important day on Capitol Hill. Manu, thank you very much. Joining me now to share their reporting and insights, Jackie Kucinich of "The Daily Beast" and Toluse Olorunnipa of "The Washington Post."

And Jackie, it is stunning in the sense that there are - you know - you'll see from interest groups how can they do this. Why don't they wait? Joe Biden says early voting is underway. The Republicans have no hesitation about using their power and if you're Mitch McConnell or President Trump you have to face the reality. Odds are today, a lot can change in six weeks, but odds are today that Joe Biden wins the presidency, odds are today Republicans may lose their majority in the Senate. They see this opportunity to get a 6-3 conservative majority and they are going to use their muscle and exercise it. JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely, and that's why it's not terribly surprising to see all of these Republican senators really falling in line on this. This has been a goal to have the court locked down like this for a very long time. And so, having a bird in the hand, right? They have the votes they need, and they are going to push forward with it.

Now - and they really don't have -- Democrats really don't have any recourse. There isn't any kind of tools in the toolbox that they can do to stop this, so the opportunity is there. This is about power. This is about changing the Supreme Court for, you know, many, many decades to come, so -- potentially, so you -- it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who has watched the Senate, particularly over the last couple of years, that this is coming down the pike.

What Democrats do have is political pressure, and that I think you're going to see really ramp up in the days to come.

KING: Right. They will have to make a campaign issue of it now because it looks unlikely, unless something changes in the confirmation process itself.

KUCINICH: That this one is on a fast-track. And Toluse, to that point, the president says he will make his pick Saturday. He's waiting for the services to remembrances of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. He will make his pick Saturday. We are told by many sources, Amy Coney Barrett, a federal appeals court judge is the favorite at the moment. Again, a lot can change in a few days. But the administration, it's also an interesting calculation for the administration signing on to this let's get this done before the election. To essentially deliver one more -- one more deliverable to the president's evangelical conservative base.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. The president is definitely looking at his own reelection. He's obviously is caring about his place in history as the 45th president, someone who potentially will have appointed three justices to the Supreme Court, but he's also looking at November 3rd. He wants to have this justice in place so he can go to his evangelical base and say look how I've changed the Supreme Court. Even if you don't like my tweets. Even if you don't like my demeanor. Look how I've shifted the balance in favor of an ideology that is much more in line with sort of your evangelical views and your moderate or, you know, very conservative views on social issues.

So, the president is clearly trying to get this win and secure this justice and have them in place before Election Day. He has also been sort of discussing the idea that, you know, the election could be challenged in the court and that could also go to the Supreme Court. So, this is a president who has relied on the Supreme Court on the majority of the Supreme Court for a lot of the major things that have happened under his presidency, from immigration, to voting rights, to the separation of powers and even his own taxes.

So, he wants to have this in place as soon as possible and not leave anything to chance knowing that after November 3rd anything could happen with the Senate majority or with his own position as president. So, I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to put a lot of pressure on all the Republicans to get this done as quickly as possible.

[11:25:13]

KING: It looks like they are going to move very quickly. To your point, Jackie, earlier about politics. You know, of course, Obama's pick was denied in 2016. Merrick Garland was appointed by President Obama with nearly 300 days to Election Day. That's what Joe Biden says is different this time. He says the Democrats deserved their vote in 2016 but Trump does not deserve his in 2020. Listen here. He says because some people are already voting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We're in the middle of an election. By the time that vote comes up, if it comes up, there will have been close to 40 percent of the people who have already voted. It's a violation of the spirit of the Constitution to suggest that he should not wait until the outcome of the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It is clear though Republicans are not going to listen to Joe Biden on this matter. My question is will Biden now feel more pressure from progressive to ramp up talk of expanding the court to add more justices, abolishing the filibuster, doing things like promising if Democrats win the presidency and the Senate along with keeping the House that they will fast-track statehood for D.C. or Puerto Rico to try to change the math in the Senate. Will he have to answer to progressive pressure now?

KUCINICH: He'll have to answer it. But right now what they are choosing to do instead of caving to that pressure or really addressing it with any sort of -- with any sort of length is they are choosing to focus on things that could change at the Supreme Court and with the distribution that the -- the 6-3 distribution, things like the Affordable Care Act could be in danger, abortion rights could be in danger. Those are the things and -- those are the things you're hearing Biden and the surrogates talk about particularly on healthcare because suburban women, people in the middle of the pandemic who are dealing with their health -- might not necessarily want to see their healthcare taken away. So, they are focusing on more of these tangible issues rather than the progressive pressure. We'll see if they are able to keep that focus as the days go on, but, you know, that's where we are right now.

KING: Jackie Kucinich, Toluse Olorunnipa, appreciate the reporting and insights today. It's a fascinating moment both in the Supreme Court chase and in the campaign. Six weeks from today, we count the votes. Thank you both.

Coming up for us, a new "Washington Post" report says Vladimir Putin is most likely personally directing Russian interference in the 2020 election.

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