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The Washington Post Reports, CIA Assessment Says Putin Probably Directing Influence Campaign Against Biden; United States Surpasses 200,000 COVID-19 Deaths; Esper and Milley Adopt Different Strategies to Deal with Trump. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired September 22, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:30:00]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: There is new and important reporting today about U.S. intelligence assessment of Russian interference in the 2020 election. The intelligence community is already on record saying Russia is interfering again and that its efforts are aimed at helping President Trump, just like back in 2016.

The new reporting details a new CIA assessment that this new meddling can be traced to the highest levels of Kremlin power. Josh Rogin of The Washington Post quoting from an August 31st CIA assessment, quote, we assess that Vladimir Putin and the senior most Russian officials are aware of and probably directing Russia's influence operations aimed at denigrating the former U.S. vice president, supporting the U.S. president and fueling public discord ahead of the U.S. election in November.

Rogin added some context a bit earlier on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH ROGIN, COLUMNIT, THE WASHINGTON POST: The government didn't want to release it, and I assure you that when I told the government that I was going to release it, they were not happy about it. But the bottom line is that this assessment came out on August 31st. It was published on the highest level classification, top secret, on what's called the CIA WIRE, the Worldwide Intelligence Review and was very, very closely held.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's discuss this now. With us, our CNN National Security Commentator Mike Rogers, the former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and our CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Staff Writer for The New Yorker, Susan Glasser.

Mr. Chairman, I want to start with you. If you were chairman of the House Intelligence Committee today and the CIA assessed that top Kremlin officials from Vladimir Putin and his team were, A, aware and, B, most likely or probably directing this, would you not expect your president to say or do something about it? MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Well, absolutely. And I would also expect the intelligence committee. So if I were chair, we would have started this a long time ago.

We do know in 2016 and before that, Putin was engaged in information operations, maligned information operations in the Baltic states and other places where there's a pretty large Russian ethnic-speaking population and then they exported that to the United States for the 2016 election.

And we watched them come back in 2018. I think the National Security Agency did a pretty good job playing whack-a-mole with their efforts. And back in '20 of February of this year, Congress was told, hey, guess what, he's back at it again.

He takes a special interest in this. This is his former KGB training, and he has, I think, a unique way of presenting this discord in America that's real concerning to me.

So, absolutely, the president should come out. Congress should be unified in this, by the way and pushing back at any foreign interference.

[11:35:00]

And, by the way, we know the Chinese are doing something, maybe not as sophisticate, but all of them should be pushed back and it should be a public joint unity effort to say, we won't tolerate foreign interference in U.S. elections.

KING: And yet, Susan Glasser, the president gave a speech to the United Nations General Assembly today, a perfect opportunity to call out Vladimir Putin, didn't happen. Yesterday at the White House, he was asked about the poisoning of the Russian opposition leader, and he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Who do you think poisoned Alexei Navalny in Russia?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We'll talk about that at another time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It is outrageous on every level, the president of the United States, his own secretary of state pointing the finger at Russia, saying he needs to answer questions about Navalny and the poisoning. Now, the president is aware, I'm sure, of this CIA assessment, and even before it, will not talk publicly again about Vladimir Putin. And so people have just left to ask the question, why, what is it?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, that's right, John. I think this is very significant new reporting because it underscores that we're essentially experiencing exactly the same thing we experienced four years ago. And I should point out, that you know, of course Vladimir Putin is likely directing this interference in the U.S. elections. This is a significant matter, and it's not a system where rogue operators in the Russian intelligence community are doing this just as it was not four years ago. What's extraordinary is that not only the president but the Republican Party has chosen essentially to ignore this.

You do have a situation where, once again, Trump appears to be in conflict with elements of his own government. The executive branch of the United States has one policy towards Russia in which office holders like Mike Pompeo can claim they are talking tough about Russia and yet the president of the United States refuses even to affix blame for the poisoning of Alexei Navalny with essentially a banned chemical weapon that's only under the control of the Russian government. And we've done and said nothing from the top levels of the government.

The other thing to point out in this reporting is that it is -- the Russian intelligence operative appears to be operating directly through Rudy Giuliani and other Republican members and Giuliani, of course, takes this information directly into the White House. Trump himself, in fact, has been accused of reading information that comes as part of this Russian intelligence operation and he publicly approved his own FBI director for speaking about this Republican interference under oath to Congress just last week.

This is something that all the systems in the U.S. should be blinking red high alert on and yet nothing is happening. Nothing is happening. We're letting happen again just as we did four years ago. It's pretty amazing.

KING: Pretty amazing is an understatement.

So, Chairman Rogers, back to you, I hate to put you on the spot. I know you're not in Congress anymore and I know you're not a fan sometimes of how this president operates especially on issues like this. But to Susan's point, let's listen to Christopher Wray the other day, one of the few administration officials who still has the guts to say publicly things he knows are going to make the boss mad. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We certainly have seen very active, very active efforts by the Russians to influence our election in 2020, an effort to both sow divisiveness and discord and -- and I think the intelligence community has assessed this publicly to primarily denigrate Vice President Biden. And what the Russians see as kind of an anti-Russian establishment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now the intelligence community -- the intelligence community has made a distinction. It's saying that Iran and China have a preference but that Russia is actively interfering to try to make a difference. And yet when my colleague, Wolf Blitzer, asked the attorney general of the United States, who has the same intelligence Director Wray has, listen to how he answered the question or didn't answer the question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you accept that Russia is once again interfering in the election?

WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I accept that there's some preliminary activity that suggests that they might try again.

BLITZER: Of those three countries that the intelligence community has pointed to, Russia, China and Iran, which is the most assertive, the most aggressive in this area?

BARR: I believe it's China.

BLITZER: Which one?

BARR: China?

BLITZER: China more than Russia right now?

BARR: Yes.

BLITZER: Why do you see that?

BARR: Because I've seen the intelligence. That's what I've concluded.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: the FBI does not believe that, Chairman Rogers. The CIA does not believe that. But the attorney general of the United States says he has concluded, at least he attributes it to himself, China, and he says he's seen some preliminary activity that they might try again in the context of Russia.

That is not what he has been told. He is told there's active activity, major activity, they are trying again, not that they might. Why?

ROGERS: Well, I can't -- I don't understand this notion that we're going to give Russia a pass.

[11:40:00]

And by the way, when I was chairman, I had some -- some information, some intel that came across my desk that suggested that the Russians were working on certain members of Congress, and there's ways to handle this had. One, I just invited the members to a meeting in my spaces with -- with the FBI to give them and run down the assessment on what those threats were and why they needed to be cautious.

And so, you know, everybody needs to be part -- you know, to have our hands on the oar to push back on the Russians here, including members of Congress, including the administration.

I will say this on China, and I agree with what the report said because we've watched it. I watched it as part of protecting democracy is the German Marshall fund, we track Russians bots and Russian misinformation and so we know how active they are, but we also are seeing China. And I think what they are saying -- maybe I'm being generous here. But I think what they are saying on China is they have really ramped up their intelligence operations targeting the United States, which is true. So they have done that part.

As far as these -- these influence operations trying to pit Americans against Americans, boy, I think the Russians have them beat hands down and we should be unified in opposition to this. This is not that hard.

KING: Right, call it all out then. If the Chinese are active, the Iranians are active, call it all out and with clarity and consistency, but we do not get that. Mike Rogers and Susan Glasser, grateful for the important insights, we'll stay top on this story as well, again, six weeks to Election Day.

And still ahead for us, election year tensions between the Pentagon and the commander-in-chief.

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[11:45:00]

KING: Some stunningly sad breaking news, the United States just moments ago reaching a devastating milestone surpassing 200,000 deaths from the coronavirus. Each one of those deaths a mother, a father, a son or a daughter.

CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta remembers just a few of those we've lost over the past six months.

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: One year ago David Nagy was a doting father of five and an even more doting grandfather. He was enjoying retirement with the love of his life, his wife Stacey.

STACEY NAGY, HUSBAND DIED OF COVID-19: I could be in the kitchen washing dishes at the sink and he'd come up and start kissing the back of my neck, you know, giving me chills in the back of my neck.

GUPTA: On July 22nd, the 79-year-old passed away in a hospital separated from his family because of COVID-19.

Naomi Esquivel and Carlos Garcia, married for 24 years, and as much as they loved each other, they loved their two boys, Nathan and Isaiah even more. None of them, none of us, had even heard of COVID-19 then. On July 2nd, Naomi was brought to the hospital that same day without her family by her side, the 39-year-old mother of two died. 14-year- old Isaiah thought standing over his mother's casket was the hardest thing he would ever do.

But just two weeks later, their father who had been recovering from the virus was also hospitalized for kidney failure. On July 17th, 44- year-old Carlos Passed away as well. ISAIAH GARCIA, BOTH PARENTS DIED OF COVID-19: I didn't get to say goodbye to my mom or my dad now, and that's what hurts me the most right now.

GUPTA: It was on February 29th when the first person in the United States was confirmed to have died from COVID-19, and since then these stories have been repeated more than 200,000 times.

It is true that age increases the risk for death. Someone who is 50 to 64 years old is 30 times more likely to die of COVID than an 18 to 29- year-old. For someone who is 56 to 74, that risk is 90 times higher.

But make no mistake. There is no one who hasn't been touched somehow, some way by COVID-19.

GARCIA: Since he passed, at least we got to be with our family, didn't have to go to an orphanage or anything, because I'd rather be here than anywhere else right now.

GUPTA: The comparisons are stunning. More Americans lost in this pandemic than have died in World War I, the Korean War, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan combined. We are now losing more than 800 people every day to this virus.

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: More people than die from suicide or overdose or homicide or HIV.

GUPTA: COVID-19 is already on track to be the third leading cause of death in the United States this year, just behind heart disease and cancer. And keep in mind COVID-19 is a disease we hadn't even heard of a year ago.

The flu pandemic of 1918 is probably the closest model we have to this pandemic. And in the first eight months of that year, around 75,000 people died from the flu. And, again, sadly, we have already lost 200,000 lives within the first seven months of this pandemic.

Ultimately, over the course of one year, 675,000 Americans would die in that pandemic of 1918 in tragic and terrifying waves.

[11:50:02]

The second, which started in September 1918 was the worst. An estimated 195,000 Americans died that October alone.

One influential model now estimates if we continue our actions, we could reach 378,000 deaths by January 1st.

But here is the thing, we don't have to. Even without a breakthrough therapeutic or a vaccine that same model estimates, we could save around 115,000 lives by simply wearing a mask and preventing over 100,000 families from having to go through what Isaiah, Nathan and Stacey have had to endure.

NAGY: He was the love of my life and I loved him. He was a part of me and I just -- I feel lost without him. GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

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KING: There are rare election year tensions between the commander-in- chief and top Pentagon officials. CNN's Barbara Starr reports the defense secretary, Mark Esper, and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Mark Milley, held an unusual call earlier this month with the White House Chief of Staff. Secretary Esper and General Milley were objecting to the president's public criticism of senior military leadership.

Now, since that call with the chief of staff, Mark Meadows, the two men are said to be taking a different approach to dealing with the president. Barbara Starr here from the Pentagon to share her reporting.

Barbara, take us inside this fascinating story.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, you will remember back on Labor Day, the president said that the top brass didn't like him because they were all about fighting wars and supporting America's defense companies. It didn't exactly go over well to be basically accused of war profiteering and that's when they got on the phone with Meadows. And Meadows tried to walk it back, but, essentially, the bad feeling, the damage done.

Now, intentional or not, Esper and Milley have taken very different approaches in the last several weeks and are expected to continue to do so right through the election. Esper continuing to travel, meet with troops, meet with foreign counterparts, traveling overseas, traveling in the U.S., he's on thin ice with the White House. So this allows him to say business as usual, I'm the defense secretary, I am out there doing my job.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Mark Milley on good terms with the president, it is believed, but he not intentionally perhaps isn't traveling overseas. Pandemic is keeping him home, his aides say.

[11:55:]

But by staying in Washington, General Milley is achieving one critical goal with the White House. He is just a short distance away, quick drive over to the Oval Office. If things start getting hot, he can meet with the president face to face and offer his military advice.

And one of the situations everyone here is watching very carefully is civil unrest, protests in cities across the U.S. Would the president try and put troops on the street? The Pentagon doesn't want that. John?

KING: Barbara Starr, very important reporting. I appreciate it very much. Thank you, Barbara.

And coming up for us, Dr. Fauci has some advice for Americans heading into the fall. The case count is trickling back up and the United States, just a moment ago, passing 200,000 coronavirus deaths.

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