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U.S. Surpasses 200,000 Deaths from Coronavirus in Grim Milestone; The Washington Post Reports, CIA Assessment Says Putin Likely Directing Anti-Biden Operation; Republicans Fall in Line, Back Trump's Push to Fill Seat. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 22, 2020 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar, and I want to welcome viewers here in the United States and around the world.

A large part of the divided nation is becoming numb to an astounding loss of life even as millions of Americans grieve and worry about being next. The coronavirus has now killed 200,000 Americans in just eight months. That's more than 9/11, World War I and the Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq Wars combined, in just eight months.

These aren't just numbers, they're people. They are Timothy Montgomery, a 56-year-old pop artist and actor who even appeared on Stranger Things, and leaves behind a son and six sisters and brothers.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody say hi to Tom, my twin brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just had a smile and happy personality no matter what the situation was. He just wanted to be remembered for doing something beautiful or something moving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He really blessed this world on top of the world.

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KEILAR: They are Anne-Marie Robane (ph). She was a phenomenal cook who worked at the Federal Reserve Bank in New York, raising five children after immigrating from Trinidad.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was a kind person, a giving person. She loved to cook. She loved travel. And she loved her politics. She absolutely loved politics. She would talk to anybody about politics all day. She watched CNN literally all day.

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KEILAR: They're Bobby Barber from Washington who loved his family dearly.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With my grandfather's passing, they lost a great man. He was someone who would give the shirt off his back to anyone and would help anyone whenever he had the opportunity and the chance to do so.

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KEILAR: They are Ellen Shriner, a hospice nurse for 45 years who loved NASCAR and scrapbooking.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they took my sister off the vent, my nephew and I were able to be in the room with her. Her eyes opened just a little bit, a tear ran down her face and it looked like she was trying to say goodbye and I love you or something. And my nephew and I both had to tell her it was okay. It was okay. She'd done everything that we asked her to do and it was okay for her to go.

She wasn't off the vent 20 minutes and she died.

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KEILAR: They are Ramon Roman, a father of four and a police department volunteer.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Although he is gone in body, he remains within his friends and family in spirit. We hope he finds some solace in knowing that some of his greatest qualities have been engraved in his oldest son, Ricardo Roman. Rest in peace, dad. We love you.

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KEILAR: they are Sheree Mounts-Beckwith, an elementary school teacher who loved to travel.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The world is lessened because her presence is no longer here and we are heartbroken. And I will remember most her love, because even when I was alone, she loved me.

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KEILAR: They were Julius Bowens from Brooklyn, whose children were his pride and joy.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a very laid back guy who likes to sit on the porch and talk to the neighbors. A lot of the neighbors won't even come up the stoop anymore because they're like he is supposed to be sitting there, from the UPS guys to the neighbors, to the mail man, to the sanitation men.

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KEILAR: They are Alfredo and Susana Pabatao, health care workers married for 44 years. She was admitted to the hospital shortly after her husband and they died in separate rooms just a few days apart.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's beyond hurt. It's beyond pain. You know, losing one parent is hard enough but losing both of them is just tragic because our parents, they're our world, you know? Like we put them on the pedestal and my parents are my life.

I have so many blessed with them because my dad was only waiting for my mom to retire and this was the year that they're supposed to retire.

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KEILAR: Dr. Anthony Fauci reflecting on the unprecedented loss of life from the coronavirus during an interview with Sanjay Gupta for Citizen by CNN conference today.

[13:05:06]

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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The idea of 200,000 deaths is really very sobering and in some respects stunning.

We have the capability by doing things that we have been speaking about for so long, Sanjay, that could prevent the transmission, the universal wearing of masks, the attention to keeping distance, the avoiding of crowds, the trying to stay outdoors more than indoors, frequent washing of hands, they sound so simple, Sanjay. We said them so many times but they're not universally implemented and employed.

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KEILAR: And on Trump giving himself an A+ for handling of the virus, Fauci, the expert on infectious disease, had this to say.

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FAUCI: They're not helpful. Take a look and make up your own mind. I mean, we don't need a sound bite for me. Take a look at the numbers.

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KEILAR: Take a look at the numbers.

Along with the heartbreaking death toll, 24 states are experiencing an increase in new cases. This is compared to just last week.

I want bring in Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, an internist and a viral specialist.

Dr. Rodriguez, 200,000 Americans are now dead from the coronavirus. What do you make of how the country has handled this pandemic as we experience a larger loss of life than any other nation in the world?

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNAL MEDICINE PHYSICIAN AND VIRAL SPECIALIST: Well, first of all, let me commend CNN for putting faces to these numbers because these are not just numbers. These are husbands, wives, children.

We've obviously not handled it as well as we can. We know that if we had acted more quickly, if we had acted sooner, we could be saving at least 50 percent of the lives that had been lost saved. And it is outrageous. It's almost immoral and ghoulish (ph), the political prestidigitation, right, the sort of sleight of hand that says nothing is really wrong. You don't have to worry unless you're one of the weak people that has medical conditions, you know, that predisposes you to die from COVID.

We know that, medically, that's absolutely not true. Anyone can get this virus. Anyone can get seriously ill and die from this. And on top of that, even if you don't, if you're one of the luck people that survives it, you can spread it to unlucky people. That's the medical component.

The political part, you're not asking me but I want to give you my opinion on that, you know, you saw the families of people that died. This is not just about the 200,000 people that are no longer voters. You cannot keep the truth from the family members, the friends of the people that suffered and died. The truth is this affects anybody and that this is serious.

KEILAR: Yes. I mean, when you think of the ripple effect, 200,000 people, and then you think of the magnitude that that increases by exponentially because of the people who know those folks who are gone, whose lives are irreparably damaged and transformed because of the loss.

Dr. Fauci said this about the country's need to contain the virus at this point.

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FAUCI: When you have a very low baseline and you start to get the blips, as I call them, you don't want them to turn into surges or rebound.

We have got to keep the slope coming down and you do that by looking at where you are, in what region of the country and acting accordingly according to the guidelines.

That's not rocket science. It's pretty clear. But we have got to do it together. We've got to be in this together. When you have weak links in the chain and some components of society are not doing it, it just makes it very difficult for the rest.

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KEILAR: I wonder, Doctor, at what point do we have a chance at reducing the numbers, right, when we're talking about what can be done to reduce these infections.

RODRIGUEZ: Right now, we are at the point where we can reduce the numbers. Right now, we're at the point where we can do something if we act in a unified way. If you look at the successes of New Zealand, of certain parts of Canada, it is because they saw this as a countrywide issue, not just as a red or a blue issue.

And Dr. Fauci is right. We need to keep the baseline low so that when the surges happen, and they are going to happen, we need to minimize those.

Listen, it is all about the weakest link in the chain and I'm so glad that he said it just like that.

KEILAR: I want to also -- you mentioned this before, this idea of, well, who can become infected, because this is something that the president said and this really matters.

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Here are his words.

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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Now we know it. It affects elderly people, elderly people with heart problems and other problems. If they have other problems, that's what it really affects. That's it.

You know, in some states, thousands of people, nobody young, below the age of 18, like nobody, it affects virtually nobody. It's an amazing thing.

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KEILAR: I mean, set the record straight here for us.

RODRIGUEZ: Well, first of all, that's just hyperbole. It's completely wrong. It affects nobody under a certain age, completely incorrect. The virus does not discriminate. It will affect everybody. If you don't -- if you have the luck of not becoming seriously ill, you are also somebody that will carry it and spread it to somebody that does.

The virus affects everybody. It has affected people of all ages, all races, all genders in every state in this country. There are almost a million people in this world that have died of this. This is not just a joke. This is not just about certain people.

It seems if his message is basically, you know what, only the weak will die, let the strong survive. May the odd be ever in your favor. It is not that. It is about people and we are all responsible for ourselves and the people around us. I mean, that's incredible.

KEILAR: Yes. Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, thank you so much for joining us.

RODRIGUEZ: You're welcome.

KEILAR: Now, let's talk about the election. Just a few days ago, FBI Director Christopher Wray warned that Russia is actively working to attack the November election and to denigrate Joe Biden. Now we're learning that Russian President Vladimir Putin is likely personally orchestrating this effort.

According to The Washington Post, at top secret CIA assessment lays this all out. It says, quote, we assess that President Vladimir Putin and the senior most Russian officials are aware of and probably directing Russia's influence operations aimed at denigrating the former U.S. vice president, that would be, of course, Jose Biden, supporting the U.S. president, that would be Donald Trump, and fueling public discord ahead of the U.S. election in November.

I'm joined by former White House Ethics Czar and former Ambassador to the Czech Republic, Norman Eisen. And he is also the author of the book, A Case for the American People, the United States Versus Donald J. Trump. Norman, thanks for being here.

NORMAN EISEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS CZAR: Thanks you for having me back, Brianna.

KEILAR: Let's listen to what the president said. He was talking about Vladimir Putin just last night, and a few days ago at two campaign rallies in key battleground states.

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TRUMP: We have been very rough but at the same time we get along. I like Putin. He likes me. We get along. Isn't it smart to get along, okay? Smart.

If I got along with Putin, somebody said, he gets along well with Putin. I'm saying to myself, but isn't that sort of a good thing? Is that bad? He gets along with Putin. That's a bad thing. But, you know, you saw the head of the FBI yesterday saying, Russia is looking at our election. Russia. Here we go again.

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KEILAR: I mean, yes, it is bad, right? We know that he is getting along with someone who is meddling in the election. He doesn't even seem to bring this up with Vladimir Putin. Why is this a problem that he gets along with Putin, as he puts it, meaning, he doesn't say to Putin, get out of this?

EISEN: When you have an American president who greets the 2016 attack on our elections by Russia, the continued assaults by Russia after that, including allegedly paying bounties for the killing of American soldiers, and now, once again, Russia preparing to attack our elections and when an American president says, we get along, the message that that sends is appeasement, impunity. No wonder Putin is assessed as likely directing another attack against our current. Trump is encouraging it.

I can't use strong enough words to say this is treasonous by an American president to behave this way. What a shock if there could be any shocks left in the era of Trump, those statements would shock you. But, unfortunately, we all see who we're dealing with as the president of the United States when it comes to Russia, tragic, horrible.

KEILAR: Norman, I want to ask you about something we've learned. One of Special Counsel Robert Mueller's top deputies, Andrew Weissmann, is out with a new book. And he says that they, the Special Counsel's Office, could have done more and essentially they pulled a punch or more than a punch. He said, they could have subpoenaed Trump, they could have interviewed Ivanka Trump and Donald Trump Jr. and they didn't. What is your response to that?

EISEN: Well, it's more evidence of the case that I argued to the American people in my book.

[13:15:00]

I make the identical point that, and I make that point precisely too, because we are now coming to the voters to pass judgment on Donald Trump that Robert Mueller fell short. And in that timidity, which Weissmann was rightly upset about within the team, we could see it from the outside when I served among the impeachment counsel for the House Judiciary Committee, when we tried to negotiate to get Bob Mueller to come in. The same deputy that Weissmann charges with this risk-averse strategy, Aaron Zebley was the one we negotiated with and it was a similar failure to act.

And I write in the book about the tragedy, why was Donald Trump not required to testify as previous presidents have been so he could be asked questions about the subject matter, including of our first part of our conversation, his disturbing relationship to Russia.

So we saw the identical things, including, as Weissmann writes in his book, the proof of obstruction of justice. It was in the report. Bill Barr helped conceal it but, Mueller's timidity also had a lot to do with the American people not being presented squarely with that case. That's why I wrote my book to make the case to them so they can to take it into account as they pass the ultimate judgment on the president.

KEILAR: Norman Eisen, thank you for coming on. We appreciate it.

EISEN: Always a pleasure.

KEILAR: Mitt Romney paving the way for Republicans to confirm a Supreme Court justice before the election. And Democrats are saying that this will destroy the Senate.

Plus, a Fox News doctor wildly speculates that Joe Biden is on speed without so much as a shred of evidence. We're going to fact check the heck out of that one. And the NFL fining several coaches for not wearing masks. Hear their responses.

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KEILAR: Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's death has pushed the country's stark divisions into the forefront, the power struggle of Democrats and the GOP only magnified now that Republicans say they have the votes to fast-track a contentious but constitutionally legal plan to fill the justice's seat.

Utah's Republican senator, Mitt Romney, is helping to seal that plan with his decision today to back his party.

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SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): The idea that the Merrick Garland decision was unfair and therefore has to be made up by doing something, which also wouldn't make sense, which is saying to President Trump, you can't get your nominee either, that just doesn't follow for me.

The Garland decision was consistent with history. The decision to proceed with a new nominee is also consistent with history and precedent and that's where I come out.

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KEILAR: David French is Senior Editor of The Dispatch and he is joining us now. David, you're also the author of Divided We Fall, America's Secession Threat and How to Restore our Nation. And you have written a recent column where you describe that country that's really cracking. Tell us what the end point or even process of that is to you. Is that a civil war? What is it?

DAVID FRENCH, SENIOR EDITOR, THE DISPATCH: No, I don't think -- in my book, I don't write that we're on a verge of a civil war. What I'm more worried about is if we keep hating each other, if we keep increasing this polarization, it's something more like a strained and fractured marriage that could ultimately end in divorce.

And what I point out in my book is that we are now in a place where a lot of Americans live clustered in like-minded communities. And then when like-minded communities gather together, they often get more extreme.

And all the data is out there about the increasing hatred and enmity that Americans have for people across the ideological lines and you see that spill out in politics. You see it spill out sometimes in the streets. And we're seeing it -- we're going to see it spill out in the intensity of this judicial nomination fight and every side escalates. Every time they have an opportunity to choose, do we de-escalate or do we escalate? We are escalating continually.

And I just want people to realize you cannot keep growing apart as a country and presume that everything is going to be okay.

KEILAR: And I want to -- this idea of a fractured society certainly is something that Fiona Hill, who is President Trump's former top Russia adviser, agrees with you on. Here is what she told CNN's Jim Sciutto.

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FIONA HILL, FORMER NSC TOP OFFICIAL ON RUSSIAN AFFAIRS: So I have to just say very bluntly to everybody who is watching and listening to this, we are increasingly seen as an object of pity, including by our allies, because they are so shocked by what's happening internally, how we're eating ourselves alive with our divisions. We are the ones who are creating all this. It is not the Russians or the Chinese or anyone else.

KEILAR: What do you think, David, that that means for the standing of America in the world?

FRENCH: Well, I mean, obviously, if you look at the scenes in American streets, if you look at the rhetoric in American politics, if we saw that in another country, we would say that's a country in distress, that is a country that is unacceptably divided, that is a country in at least some degree of danger. But we have grown increasingly accustomed to this punch them in the mouth style of politics without really understanding what that's doing to us as a people.

And one of the reasons why I wrote the book is I want people to say, wait a minute, maybe winning, throwing that next partisan punch is not worth the cost to the country.

[13:25:05]

That we need people to step forward who are thinking in not just a long-term but the medium term about lowering the national temperature, about creating a -- restoring a sense that actual political compromise can be something desirable in the body politics instead of a zero-sum- based-driven political strategy that often rewards the punched and mocks and scorns any attempt of reconciliation.

And that is especially -- and I come -- I'm a conservative. I grew up in red America and this is a dynamic that I'm seeing on the right side of the aisle all around me where an attempt -- any attempt at reconciliation is scorned as weakness and the punch is applauded as strength. And if we keep going in that cycle, that has terrible consequences for our culture and our country.

KEILAR: Definitely. David, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your thoughts with us.

FRENCH: Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

KEILAR: We appreciate it as well.

The NFL fining some coaches for not wearing masks as a Republican lieutenant governor is booed at a Trump rally for pushing masks.

Plus, I'll be speaking with someone who has survived 100 days in the hospital on a ventilator battling the coronavirus. She's only 35.

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