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America Passes 200,000 Dead from COVID-19; CIA Assesses Vladimir Putin Likely Directing Anti-Biden Influence Campaign; Concerns Grow Around Supreme Court Nomination Process. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 22, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Just in, we're getting our first details about the first presidential debate one week from tonight. Moderator Chris Wallace, revealing the topic which include the coronavirus, the records of each candidate, the economy, the Supreme Court, race and violence in U.S. cities, and the integrity of the election. The first debate, including six 15-minute segments.

it's the top of the house, I'm Brianna Keilar. And 200,000 Americans have died from coronavirus. That is higher than the number of combat deaths in the country's five most recent wars combined.

The number is staggering, but it doesn't tell the full story. It doesn't encapsulate what has been taken from this country, and from the families who are now missing their loved ones. Here are just a few of their stories.

A funeral was held Monday for 36-year-old father of two Joey Kastner. He was the division chief of White County Animal Control in Georgia. His wife was also hospitalized with COVID, but she recovered. And Kastner's obituary reads in part, "To know Joey was to love Joey. He was a deacon at his church, he loved hunting, fishing, playing softball and coaching his kids in sports."

The family of a teacher in Bay Port, Wisconsin now believes that she got coronavirus after attending the funeral of a close relative. Forty-seven-year-old Heidi Hussli was a mom to one son, and she taught German for 16 years.

Her former students remembered her in interviews with the local paper. One of them said this, "I always describe her as the kindest heart that I ever knew. She definitely touched every soul she met in a positive way." Another one said this, "She really did believe in her students, no matter their background or intellect. They were truly her students and she wanted all of us to succeed."

In McLennan County, Texas, sheriff's deputy Chris "Koogle" Smith passed away just one week after learning that he had been exposed to COVID-19 at work. The 59-year-old had served in law enforcement for more than 27 years. And another frontline worker, Dr. Rebecca Shadowen was a specialist in

infectious diseases in Bowling Green, Kentucky. She was diagnosed in May, and helped her community develop its response to the coronavirus pandemic. Her husband, daughter, and 90-year-old mother-in-law all managed to recover from coronavirus, but she passed away on September 11th.

Her family spoke last night to Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHRYN SHADOWEN, LOST HER MOM TO COVID-19: She was easily one of the smartest, most driven people I knew. She kind of taught me part of who I wanted to be as a person. She always said to have the grace to let people be who they are, and kind of really believed and lived out the idea of treating everyone the way you'd want to be treated.

DAVID SHADOWEN, LOST HIS WIFE TO COVID-19: And she did know that there was risk of COVID out there, and anybody could catch it and have bad things happen, but she still wanted to be part of the medicine and part of helping people.

If she was here, she would very much encourage people to wear a mask when they're in public, that they should social distance always, avoid large crowds, and this fall, you know, when the flu vaccine comes out, please take it because you wouldn't want to get those two diseases at the same time.

And certainly, if a vaccine for COVID does come out, my son will be the first in line to get it if he had (inaudible) about him. I really hope that that makes a big difference in how we deal with COVID in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Dr. Anthony Fauci, reflecting on the unprecedented loss of life from the coronavirus during an interview with Sanjay Gupta today for the Citizen by CNN Conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The idea of 200,000 deaths is really very sobering and in some respects, stunning. We have the capability, by doing things that we've been speaking about for so long, Sanjay, that could prevent the transmission.

The universal wearing of masks, the attention to keeping distance, the avoiding of crowds, the trying to (INAUDIBLE) outdoors more than indoors, frequent washing of hands: They sound so simple, Sanjay, we've said them so many times, but they're not universally implemented and employed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: The United States is approaching 7 million infections, and a new study that was released just moments ago shows who is more likely to test positive for the virus. We have CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen with us here to talk about these details.

So Elizabeth, this team was looking at the health records of more than 5 million patients in the V.A. system, what did they see there?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, what they saw there is very much reflective, Brianna, of what's been seen in the entire U.S. population, but they added an interesting new piece of information. So what they found was that black and Latino veterans were more than twice as likely to get coronavirus than white veterans.

[14:05:04]

That has been known, those numbers have been seen very -- pretty much the same numbers have been seen in the entire United States population when you look at CDC data. What this study adds is that many people have said, well, maybe it's because black and Latino people have more underlying health conditions that make them more vulnerable to getting infected.

And in fact, they found that that was not the case, underlying conditions didn't answer the question. Nor did it answer the question where they got their care, which is another theory that was put out there. So we still need to figure out why there is this racial discrepancy.

A couple of other thoughts that have been put out there is that it has to do with the jobs that minority people -- who belong to the black or Latino community -- do compared to white people. People in black and Latino communities are more likely to do the kind of essential frontline jobs that could really put someone at risk for getting COVID.

KEILAR: And there's also, Elizabeth, this new study and it looks at people who tested positive for coronavirus in South Korea, and specifically it's looking at the viral load of people who are asymptomatic, people who don't have symptoms. What does it show us?

COHEN: Right, there's been some thought, Brianna, that, well, maybe if people don't have symptoms, maybe they can't spread it as much, they don't have as much virus in their nose or their throat so that they're not going to spread it as much.

But what this study found is that that's not the case unfortunately, that these sort of silent coronavirus cases, that they're also potentially silent spreaders because they did have just as much virus in their nose and in their throats.

This is unfortunate. It would have been nice to have learned, oh, they didn't have so much in there, we shouldn't worry about them. But that's not the case, and that is why mask-wearing is so important. I mean, I have talked to so many people who felt completely fine, and then got tested and they were shocked that they were positive. You could have coronavirus and not know it, that's why you need to keep distance and that's why you need to wear a mask.

KEILAR: Yes, you have to act like you have it even if you feel like you don't, to protect other people.

COHEN: Exactly.

KEILAR: Elizabeth, thank you so much, Elizabeth Cohen.

COHEN: Right.

KEILAR: And despite the staggering loss of life, President Trump is giving himself an A-plus for his response to the pandemic. He said this at his rally in Ohio last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now we know it, it affects elderly people, elderly people with heart problems and other problems. If they have other problems, that's what it really affects, that's it. You know, in some states, thousands of people -- nobody young, below the age of 18, like, nobody. It affects virtually nobody, it's an amazing thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right, that's a lie.

Our chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta asked about this moments ago at the White House press briefing, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Last night, the president said at one of his rallies about the virus -- I think he was talking about younger Americans -- he said, "it affects virtually nobody. By the way, open your schools, everybody, open your schools." But he said to Bob Woodward, "It's not just older people, it's young people too."

At 200,000 deaths, shouldn't the president be telling people the truth about this virus at his rallies?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president is telling people the truth. And you're right, Jim, that was talking about --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: No, he's not. He's saying that it affects virtually nobody, and that it doesn't affect young people. He's not telling the truth.

MCENANY: Jim, but you're again taking the president out of context. I have his full quote here, and you're right that he was referring to young people. He said this --

ACOSTA: I'm not taking it out of context, though, I said he was talking about younger people, but I'm not taking it out of context.

MCENANY: You're -- you are taking it out of context because you're making an assertion that he's not giving critical information, when in fact he is. And I will underscore exactly what he said. And he said this, "You know, in some states, thousands of people -- they've had nobody young, below the age of 18, like nobody. They have a strong immune system." That is factually true, you can go to the American Academy of Pediatrics website, the Children's Hospital Association, and they list out --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Kayleigh, as you know, younger people can attract -- younger people can contract --

(CROSSTALK)

MCENANY: -- a number of states that have had zero pediatric deaths.

ACOSTA: -- the coronavirus and then spread it to older people.

MCENANY: And as --

ACOSTA: We've known this since the very beginning. And for the president of the United States at 200,000 deaths to go out to his rallies and say something like, it virtually affects nobody? And that in some states it's not affecting young people? That is glossing over the fact -- and really diminishing the fact that young people can catch this virus and spread it to older people --

MCENANY: Do you --

ACOSTA: -- younger people can also be sickened and killed by this virus.

MCENANY: Jim, do you have the quote there with you?

ACOSTA: I have the quote here, yes.

MCENANY: Yes, it is exactly as I just read it to you, that in several states they have had zero pediatric deaths. I have the entire list here: Arkansas, Delaware, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, and the list goes on.

And as you may not know, Jim, this -- the COVID has a 0.01 percent mortality rate for people under the age of 18, so it is not a disease that affects young people in the same way as older people, which is the exact point the president was making last night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:10:01]

KEILAR: Jim Acosta, that was not the exact point the president was making last night, as you know, and she --

ACOSTA: Yes.

KEILAR: -- certainly couldn't point to every state not having pediatric deaths, because that is very inaccurate. What did you think of this exchange?

ACOSTA: Exactly. I mean, we've seen this, I mean, almost since the very beginning of this pandemic, Brianna, and that is that the president of the United States and the White House press secretary -- like previous White House press secretaries, we should add -- will just flat-out lie to the American people.

And the president did that last night at that rally in Ohio when he was saying that it virtually affects nobody. He seemed to be saying that about younger Americans. But as we know, that is just missing a giant point, and that is that younger Americans, while they may not get sick and die from the coronavirus at the same rate that older Americans do, they can catch the virus and spread it to other people.

So you know, one of the things that we've been dealing with throughout all of this, Brianna -- and you've laid this out so well on your program -- is that the president downplays this virus, he diminishes the threat posed by the virus, he holds rallies where people don't wear masks and don't participate in social distancing because of what he says to his own supporters.

And you know, at the very beginning of my exchange with Kayleigh McEnany, I asked her, you know, whether or not, you know the administration accepts some responsibility for the 200,000 deaths from the coronavirus in this country, and what do they say to Americans who are outraged over this and blame this administration for all of these deaths?

And she was saying that, well, because there were some projections that it could kill 2 million people, they feel like they've done a fine job. But as you know, Brianna, that 2 million projection was only if we did nothing, if we didn't practice social distancing, if we just lived our lives as we did before the coronavirus pandemic.

And so they're inventing this false standards to compare the 200,000 threshold against, and it just falls flat when you hold it up to the light of day, and I think this was just another example of that.

KEILAR: It just -- it doesn't pay respect to the cost, Jim. I think especially having hit this threshold of 200,000 lives gone, lives that wouldn't be gone without COVID-19 affecting these people, it's just -- it's so disrespectful.

I really appreciated your question, Jim, thank you so much, Jim Acosta.

ACOSTA: Thank you, appreciate it.

KEILAR: Election interference in 2016 may have been child's play compared to 2020, according to the "Washington Post."

A Top Secret assessment from the CIA says this, quote, "We assess that President Vladimir Putin and the seniormost Russian officials are aware of and probably directing Russia's influence operations aimed at denigrating the former U.S. vice president" -- that of course would be Joe Biden -- "supporting the U.S. president" -- that of course would be Donald Trump -- "and fueling public discord ahead of the U.S. election in November."

So this is from the very first line of the assessment that is contained in this internal, highly classified report, the CIA Worldwide Intelligence Review, which was written not long ago, a few weeks ago on August 31st.

Josh Rogin, the "Washington Post" columnist who broke this story, is joining us now. Josh, thanks for coming on. Tell us what you know about Putin's alleged role in this, the assessment saying that he probably is directing these influence operations.

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well that's right, Brianna. Over the last two months, we've seen different parts of the U.S. government openly talk about this foreign influence operation perpetrated by Andriy Derkach, a pro-Russian Ukrainian lawmaker, who happens to be good friends with Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, and has been named by the Office of Director of National Intelligence and the Treasury Department as an active Russian agent, and sanctioned by the Treasury Department.

And what this CIA assessment concluded -- and that I've now revealed -- is that that whole scheme, part of which has played out in public and part of which has played out in private, the CIA, FBI and NSA believe that Putin and his seniormost staff are definitely aware of it, and probably directing it.

Meaning that although these are Ukrainians working with Americans to denigrate Joe Biden and promote Trump's re-election, it's actually all run out of the highest levels of the Kremlin. That's new.

And it also shows that the intelligence community has been tracking this and investigating this for a long time, and has come up with dozens of pieces of intelligence -- some classified, some unclassified -- that really paint a scheme that involves U.S. lawmakers, U.S. media organizations, Washington lobbyists, all being used as part of this influence operation, again to hurt Biden, help Trump and sow discord in our November 2020 election.

KEILAR: As -- to underscore what you just said, you write about this Ukrainian lawmaker with ties to Giuliani, who had been, quote, "working through lobbyists, members of Congress and the U.S. media to spread this anti-Biden information."

[14:15:04]

Are these American players, these lobbyists, these congressmen, these members of the media, are they aware that they're part of a Russian disinformation campaign?

ROGIN: Yes, the assessment itself doesn't speak to that. It sort of just says that they could be targets of it, in other words being influenced, or they could be in on it. And it doesn't name Giuliani or the lawmakers, although it's clear where this -- Derkach's information has gone.

Giuliani and Derkach have appeared on the internet and in press conferences and on Facebook. So it's clear that they're talking about Rudy Giuliani. Now what Giuliani has said -- especially recently -- is that he doesn't know of Derkach was a Russian agent, he didn't think he was a Russian agent.

But at this point, especially with the release of this information that's based on, again, dozens and dozens of pieces of intelligence, it's no longer plausible for these people to deny that Derkach is working with the Russian government, that this is probably directed by Putin. And if they are using his information and if they are being influenced by him, then they are doing Putin's bidding, plain and simple.

KEILAR: All right. Josh Rogin, thank you so much, I really appreciate it.

Senator Mitt Romney, falling in line with fellow Republicans making a clear path to confirm a Supreme Court justice before the election. One of Justice Ginsburg's former clerks will be joining me, next.

Plus, the Louisville Police Department says six of its officers are now under internal investigation after the shooting death of Breonna Taylor. We will take you there, live.

And countries across Europe, seeing a spike in COVID infections: What they're doing to crack down.

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[14:21:00]

KEILAR: Senate Republicans have just finished a behind-closed-doors meeting to discuss the timing of a confirmation vote for a Supreme Court nominee. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has the support to push this process forward quickly, but there is one minor detail. That is that they of course don't have a nominee yet.

President Trump, announcing on Twitter today that he will reveal his pick to fill the seat of the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Saturday.

I want to bring in the president of the National Bar Association, CK Hoffler, with us; and Duke University law professor Neil Siegel, who clerked for Justice Ginsburg in 2003.

Thank you to both of you. And C.K., to you first. If the president gets to place another judge on the bench, it's going to change the dynamic of the court, of course, with a conservative majority. How is that going to raise the stakes for issues including Obamacare, but not limited to Obamacare?

CK HOFFLER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BAR ASSOCIATION: Well, absolutely. First of all, thank you all for your sort of progressive view on some of these issues.

It's absolutely going to change the fabric of this country. I mean, to fill the shoes of this magnificent jurist, this justice who gave so much to equality, to women's rights, to civil rights, to voting rights, to human rights in this country, it's going to be very difficult to fill the shoes.

But if we fill the shoes with someone who is not properly vetted and we're rushing into this process, it's going to set us behind in this country. I mean, this is such an important decision, such an important decision.

And again, if we look at just voting rights, just take Justice Ginsburg's record on voting rights and her crushing, crushing dissent in the Shelby v. Holden case, where that basically -- that case gutted in large part the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act of 1965. And that set behind civil rights -- voting rights in this country.

So as we're facing -- right here and now -- a pandemic, election suppression -- not just COVID, not just police brutality, but election suppression, we can tie back to that decision, the Holder decision, the Supreme Court decision where she wrote that crushing opinion, to what's happening today.

Because basically, the barriers were taken away to states being able to do whatever they want to with election suppression, that was really designed to impact black and brown minority communities' voting. That's the key, election suppression is designed to impact minority communities.

And that's why at the National Bar Association, we are pushing over 6,000, 7,000 lawyers out there to protect the right to vote.

So this decision right now, to put someone quickly in place, will completely change the fabric -- potentially -- of this country, to the detriment of many communities.

KEILAR: Neil, what issues are you tracking? What issues do you think could very much be changed?

NEIL SIEGEL, FORMER JUSTICE GINSBURG CLERK: Well, there's a good number of them. I mean, for starters, we should understand that the Supreme Court is already one of the most conservative Supreme Courts in American history. We haven't had one this conservative since the 1930s, and their conservatism caused, eventually, a constitutional crisis. And so we're not talking about a court that is moderate, let alone leaning left.

Chief Justice Roberts is a very conservative justice. He does, however, have a sense of the court as an institution that's greater than his own ideology and his own methodological commitments, and so he has been at times willing to put on the brakes, for example in an abortion decision last term; for example when the Trump administration has made certain pretextual claims to justify governmental action, like for example with adding a citizenship question to the census. He has been willing to push back at times. He will invoke the court's previous decisions, precedent, called "stare decisis," to put on the brakes.

And so if you move the center of the court away from the chief justice and towards someone more conservative, what you're talking about is even more hostility to affirmative action, even more hostility to the Voting Rights Act and voting rights challenges more generally, a court that is not going to impose significant limits on the death penalty, a court that is not going to be sympathetic to claims brought by sexual orientation minorities and transgender individuals.

There are many more issues -- right? -- that are at stake, but that just gives you and your listeners some sense of how much each individual seat on the Supreme Court can matter.

KEILAR: I wonder, CK, do you have any concerns about the speed of this confirmation?

HOFFLER: I do have tremendous concerns. Many bar associations such as the National Bar Association take very seriously the appointment, the nomination and appointment of a Supreme Court justice, especially one that's filling the shoes of Justice Ginsburg.

And there is a process. We need to vet and be able to submit our own recommendations, our own views on each of the candidates. That is part of the American way, that's part of the process.

With them rushing like this, what it does, even though we have our teams of scholars, our teams that are vetting and are looking at potential -- because right now, they're potential nominees -- it really, in compressing that process and rushing to get someone appointed and confirmed before the election -- in less than 45 days -- what that does it is takes away the democracy.

It takes away the ability of organizations and those who are doing proper vetting with their ability to vet the process. We want to know what this person's opinions are on various issues: voting rights, human rights, women's reproductive rights, health care, immigration. All of the things that are important to the American people, no matter what partisan politics play out.

And with it going through this process -- rushing, expedited process with the senators lining up against the decision -- it's our understanding the president's going to announce his nominee on Saturday or this weekend, the senators have already lined up and said, we're going to support a quick and rapid response so we can get someone confirmed right away.

That really is unamerican, undemocratic and basically makes it so that the American people will not have the ability to even see and vet these candidates that will be ruling on such important issues. This justice is critical --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: And --

HOFFLER: -- American Constitution, actually, as well.

KEILAR: And Neil, you have been a part of this process, right? You were special counsel to Senator Chris Coons, a Democrat, going through the Supreme Court confirmation process for Justice Brett Kavanaugh. You also advised the senator during the Gorsuch nomination. What challenges will this speed here create?

SIEGEL: Well you know, it creates challenges to the Senate's ability to execute a profound constitutional role of advise and consent. It also is going to impede the ability of the American people, the public, to learn about the nominee and evaluate the nominee and render their own judgment about whether the nominee should be confirmed.

I mean, we're talking about a lifetime appointment to the nation's highest court, the most powerful court in the land. Advise and consent, public evaluation? It requires a lot more time than speed dating. And yet that seems to be the process that the president and Republican senators are insisting on.

KEILAR: Speed dating, good analogy, Neil Siegel. Thank you so much. CK Hoffler, I appreciate you being with us.

And we did just hear from Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell about the Ginsburg seat vacancy, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: As we all know, the president is going to be sending up a nominee for the Supreme Court vacancy later this week. I anticipate -- we all anticipate it's going to be an extremely well qualified woman. And with regard to the schedule, after that announcement, Chairman Lindsey Graham will lay out the plan for handling the nomination before the Judiciary Committee.

Number two, a word about the negotiation on the C.R. --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:29:28]

KEILAR: Next, six Louisville police officers are now facing an internal investigation in the wake of Breonna Taylor's shooting death. We are awaiting right now an announcement on whether any of the officers will face criminal charges. The city, beefing up security in the meantime. We're going to take you there, live.

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