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Supreme Court Battle; Interview With Fmr. Rep. Charlie Dent (R- PA); U.S. Passes Grim Milestone of 200,000 Coronavirus Deaths. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 22, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And also maybe give a second thought to outdoor things as well, like hayrides with strangers -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right, Brynn, thank you.

And our special coverage continues now with Kate Bolduan.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining us this hour.

Sobering and stunning, that is how the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, is describing today, and appropriately so, the day the country hit and past 200,000 deaths from the coronavirus.

The United States surpassing this marker once thought unfathomable just this morning, approximately seven months after the first COVID death was reported. And now, as we officially enter fall today, the nation sits in another precarious place.

Nearly half of all states are reporting more cases than this time last week. Eight states, including previous hot spots like Texas and Arizona, are reporting increases of more than 50 percent. And even after everything that we have learned about the virus, how it's transmitted, how we can keep ourselves and our neighbors safe, even with tens of thousands of Americans still getting infected every day, President Trump continues to pretend he doesn't know, it seems.

Doctors and scientists are pleading with you to be vigilant, pleading with all of us to be careful. The president is essentially back to saying, don't worry about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now we know it. It affects elderly people, elderly people with heart problems and other problems, if they have other problems. That's what it really affects. That's it.

In some states, thousands of people, nobody young, below the age of 18, like nobody. It affects virtually nobody. It's an amazing thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And he yet again is wrong.

In fact, Dr. Anthony Fauci today says that, today, the base -- baseline is much too high as we head into the dangerous months ahead, which really start next week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: What worries me the most? What worries me is that, in those areas of the country, which is a large country, heterogeneous in many ways, if you don't have the control now, as we get towards the end of September of getting such a low percentage, that it is entirely manageable.

We know we could get into serious trouble if we don't do certain things. And I hope that that understanding is not going to frighten people, but will jolt them into realizing that it is within our hands to prevent that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Those deaths are not just numbers. They are people. They are mothers and fathers. They are sons and daughters.

We have to remind ourselves over and over again to not lose sight of that fact.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, he has a look right now at just some of what we and who we have lost in the months leading up to this, 200,000 Americans dead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One year ago, David Nagy was a doting father of five, and an even more doting grandfather.

He was enjoying retirement with the love of his life, his wife, Stacey.

STACEY NAGY, WIDOW OF CORONAVIRUS VICTIM: I could be in the kitchen washing dishes at the sink, and he would come up and start kissing the back of my neck, giving me chills on the back of my neck.

GUPTA: On July 22, the 79-year-old passed away in a hospital, separated from his family because of COVID-19.

Naomi Esquivel and Carlos Garcia, married for 24 years, and as much as they loved each other ,they loved their two boys, Nathan and Isaiah, even more. None of them, none of us had even heard of COVID-19 then. On July 2, Naomi was brought to the hospital. That same day, without her family by her side, the 39-year-old mother of two died; 14-year- old Isaiah thought standing over his mother's casket was the hardest thing he would ever do.

But Just two weeks later, their father, who had been recovering from the virus, was also hospitalized for kidney failure. On July 17, 44- year-old Carlos passed away as well.

ISAIAH GARCIA, SON OF CORONAVIRUS VICTIMS: I didn't get to say goodbye to my mom or my dad, no. And that's what hurt me the most right now.

GUPTA: It was on February 29 when the first person in the United States was confirmed to have died from COVID-19. And since then, these stories have been repeated more than 200,000 times.

It is true that age increases the risk for death. Someone who is 50 to 64 years old is 30 times more likely to die of COVID than an 18-to-29- year-old. For someone who is 65 to 74, that risk is 90 times higher.

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But make no mistake. There is no one who hasn't been touched somehow, some way by COVID-19.

GARCIA: Since he passed, obviously, we got to be with our family. We didn't have to go to an orphanage or anything, because I would rather be here than anywhere else right now.

GUPTA: The comparisons are stunning, more Americans lost in this pandemic then have died in World War I, the Korean War, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

We are now losing more than 800 people every day to this virus.

DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, FORMER DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: More people than die from suicide or overdose or homicide or HIV.

GUPTA: COVID-19 is already on track to be the third leading cause of death in the United States this year, just behind heart disease and cancer.

And keep in mind COVID-19 is a disease we hadn't even heard of a year ago. The flu pandemic of 1918 is probably the closest model we have to this pandemic. And in the first eight months of that year, around 75,000 people died from the flu.

And again, sadly, we have already lost 200,000 lives within the first seven months of this pandemic.

Ultimately, over the course of one year, 675,000 Americans would die in that pandemic of 1918 in tragic and terrifying waves. The second, which started in September of 1918, was the worst. An estimated 195,000 Americans died that October alone.

One influential model now estimates that, if we continue our actions, we could reach 378,000 deaths by January 1. But here's the thing. We don't have to. Even without a breakthrough

therapeutic or a vaccine, that same model estimates we could save around 115,000 lives by simply wearing a mask and preventing over 100,000 families from having to go through what Isaiah, Nathan and Stacey have had to endure.

NAGY: It was the love of my life. And I loved him. He was a part of me. And I just -- I feel lost without him.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Sanjay, for that reminder of the lives behind this astonishing number that this -- that we, as a country, have hit today.

Joining me right now is Anne Rimoin. She's a professor of epidemiology at UCLA.

Anne, thank you so much for being here.

The country has been on the precipice of this moment for weeks now. But now hitting this tragic milestone, what does this mean to you?

DR. ANNE RIMOIN, UCLA EPIDEMIOLOGIST: You know, this is a tragic milestone, as you said.

And in the piece that you just showed, Sanjay Gupta really demonstrated how serious this is; 200,000 people here in the United States, that's the entire city of Salt Lake City wiped out, Montgomery, Alabama; Huntsville, Alabama; Grand Rapids, Michigan, wiped out.

I think it's very important for us to grasp these numbers. We're almost at a million globally and 200,000 here in the United States. And while we have plateaued in many places, we plateaued at 100 miles an hour.

So we are losing many, many people every day. And we don't have to do this. We have the tools in hand right now to save lives, wearing masks, social distancing, hand hygiene, avoiding crowds, all the things we keep talking about.

This is a very important moment for everyone to consider how many lives have -- lost and how many lives we can save with what we can do right now.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

And, Anne, I mean, as Sanjay was pointing out in his analysis, this is now becoming the third leading cause of death in the country, a disease that we had never heard of one year ago.

Still, the president of the United States said just last night that, in his view, this virus affects virtually nobody. I'm not sure -- and after hearing him say it again, the president say it again, I'm not sure exactly what even a question is to ask, other than ,what do you want people to do with a statement like that?

RIMOIN: I want people to ignore that statement. That statement is patently untrue.

We know, science tells us that this virus affects people in many ways. And just because you are young, as the president would like to say that it affects virtually no one, that is not true. It can affect young people, it can affect old people.

As the piece you showed just said, older people are more likely to die from this or have serious outcomes. But young people can too. We know, first of all, that there are many Americans, that a third of the population -- a third of the adults in this population either have an underlying condition or are over 65 years of age.

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People don't even know that they have underlying conditions sometimes. And so they may not consider themselves to be at risk, but they are.

And, also, for those people who do get it and do not feel -- do not have a serious disease, they can still have long-term consequences that we're learning about.

And, finally, of course, just because you yourself may not have a serious infection and may not feel the effects, you can easily pass it to people who can. So, you might be one of the lucky ones, but you could pass it to somebody who could be very unlucky.

And there is a ripple effect. I think everybody has to remember that they have a responsibility to everyone around them in their communities to do their best to avoid spreading this disease, because, when somebody else gets it, even if they don't have an effect, they could pass it to somebody does.

Do you want to be responsible for somebody's sister or mother or grandmother having a serious effect or dying? I think we all know that we can do something right now. And we need to do our best.

BOLDUAN: And, look, that's in no way hyperbole or exaggeration. That is real. That is exactly what we have seen evidence of in these super- spreading events, leaving weddings, spreading, leaving a bar. We have seen this for months now.

But it's so important, and it bears repeating, as you're saying, Anne.

And, I mean, Doctor, you were getting to this just a bit. Dr. Fauci, he spoke with Sanjay actually earlier today. And he had a very clear message for the here and now, that action is still needed to be taken now to avoid what he really is describing is what could be a disaster this fall and winter. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) FAUCI: We have got to keep that slope coming down. And you do that by looking at where you are, in what region of the country, and acting accordingly, according to the guidelines.

Sanjay, that's not rocket science. It's pretty clear. But we have got to do it together. We have got to be in this together. When you have weak links in the chain, and some components of society are not doing it, it just makes it very difficult for the rest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And, Anne, isn't that a coordinated national effort? And if we have to now assume that is not going to be coming from the president of the United States, what are you left with, then, as we enter fall and head into winter?

RIMOIN: Kate, I have said this before. I'm going to say it again. We have to listen to the science.

And haven't we have had enough death here in this country? I think it is time for everybody to do the right thing and to remember that we all have the ability in our hands right now, by putting on a mask, hand hygiene, social distancing, staying away from crowds, to be able to reduce the spread of this virus.

This virus doesn't care about politics. This virus cares about susceptible people. And there are a lot of them here in this country right now and globally. So, enough with the politics. Let's listen to the science and do the right thing.

It takes very little effort to put on a mask. And, as my father-in-law was used to say, it's easier to stay out of trouble than to get in -- to get out of trouble. And I think it's really clear here. Wearing a mask is so much easier than having to deal with either the personal burden of having this infection or the emotional burden and the guilt of having infected somebody else.

I think this is something everybody needs to think about.

BOLDUAN: And this is a day, if you're not going to think about it every other day, when the country passes 200,000 people killed from this virus, many preventable deaths, this is the day to reflect on this and to not be numb to these numbers.

Anne, thank you very much. It's good to see you.

RIMOIN: My pleasure.

BOLDUAN: Coming up next for us: As Americans line up at food banks, why can't Congress find the time to reach a deal and a relief -- for a relief bill, yet somehow has nothing but time for a Supreme Court nominee?

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[15:18:16] BOLDUAN: Right now, it is full speed ahead in the Senate to fill the Supreme Court vacancy left by Ruth Bader Ginsburg's death.

Just this morning, Republican Senator Mitt Romney announced that he is with his party in supporting confirmation vote before the election. Senator Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, says that Republicans have the votes that they need to confirm President Trump's nominee before the election, saying that even before the president names his nominee, of course.

So they have made it clear they have the time and they have the will. When there's a will, there's a way, as the saying goes.

But where then is the will to take on something at least as important as a Supreme Court nominee, getting money to the millions of Americans who have lost their jobs, who are struggling to pay rent, can't even put food on the table at this point?

Just look at these lines, reminders of the pain that is out there people, waiting for hours and hours at food banks across the country. And we're talking about money that both Republicans and Democrats agree is needed.

With this, they just can't seem to find a way to come together, despite the lines that you see there. You know folks don't want to be waiting in those food bank lines. But, suddenly, there isn't enough time and isn't enough will. Stimulus talks are at a standstill, and they really haven't gone anywhere for about seven weeks now.

Yet the Senate has no problem, again, barreling ahead with the confirmation of a lifetime appointment. The lesson here is, when there's a will, there is a way, but only when it is politically convenient, it seems.

Joining me right now is CNN senior congressional correspondent Manu Raju and former Republican congressman Charlie Dent.

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Manu, if I could start with you, why can't this -- as David Chalian likes to say sometimes, why can't this be both/and? Why does this seem to have to be either/or?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As you know, Kate, from covering this place as well, it's so hard for this institution to walk and chew gum at the same time, particularly as we get closer and closer to an election.

There are several reasons why the stimulus talks have gone essentially nowhere. One, we're in the heat of a very intense election. There's not much time left in the legislative calendar. October is expected to be the month where members in both chambers are going to be home campaigning to keep their jobs.

But, also, on the policy itself, the two sides are so far apart on the details, on the overall scope. And you said talks are at a standstill. They are just not even talking at all at the moment. They haven't talked in weeks.

There have been no real negotiations. The price tag is much different, Nancy Pelosi saying she wants -- she's gone down to $2.2 trillion. She's calling on the White House to go up. The White House and the Senate Republicans don't want to go to that level. Senate Republicans have a plan at $500 billion.

And then, when you start digging into the details, they are miles and miles apart. And, Kate, also major deadlines expired in July, including the unemployment benefits, and as well as the federal eviction moratorium.

And it's much easier for Congress to get a deal in the run-up to those deadlines. But when you blow past that deadline, when you go over that cliff, it's oftentimes harder to go back and resurrect things, which is why it just keeps -- easier to punt and punt on this issue, and ultimately may be up to the voters to render a judgment in November, Kate.

BOLDUAN: And everything Manu lays out perfectly, Congressman, is why people hate politics. I'm just going to say it. Democrats and Republicans are fighting over -- yes, details always matter. And that is a very serious thing when it comes down to what is in any deal.

But if they are a trillion dollars apart, that's a ton of money, but it's not a lot of money, if we're going being really honest when it comes to congressional math, as we like to call it, if they really want to get something done.

So the same question to you, Congressman. We have talked about this so many times. Why can't they get this done, when they know so many people are hurting?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, simply because many of them don't have the capacity to get to yes.

And what I would say is this. There is a path forward. The Problem Solvers Caucus just a couple weeks ago released a plan of about $1.5 trillion. Actually, I think that's a pretty good plan. They had 25 Republicans, 25 Democrats. Allow a vote on that.

I mean, I think Pelosi has to give a bit. And I think the Senate has to give a bit. But the bottom line is, they should put something like that on the floor. Pass it into law. If the Democrats win the elections, well, then they can pass another economic stimulus bill. So they can do it.

They have the time, but they don't have the will. And I think the truth is, many folks in Washington just don't have the ability to find compromise. Their reward is to play to the bases, and not -- they're not rewarded for consensus and compromise.

They're rewarded for staying -- tacking hard to the base. That's the reality of Washington, D.C., today.

BOLDUAN: Manu, what is the president's role in all of this? I mean, do Republicans want him involved, are you hearing, or is this

another scenario where his involvement actually hurts them getting to a place of yes, getting anything done?

RAJU: I don't I think the Senate Republicans are skeptical of the president getting involved, because of the things that he has been saying.

The president has said that he is OK with more money than the Senate Republicans have put forward. And the Democrats have responded by that remark by saying, great, let's talk about the price tag.

Now, the president has not really followed up on those public pronouncements that he's willing to get -- to give, provide more money to try to get a deal. He has not been cajoling his members to go there. He has not been twisting arms. And it has really not been a focus of his.

So, even though he has said that, he has not gone there. And he also has not had a conversation with Nancy Pelosi in about almost a year. They have not spoken, which is pretty remarkable between a president and a speaker of the House, so they're not talking.

And Senate Republicans, unclear if they really want him involved, because he doesn't necessarily align with the position that they're pushing here in the Senate, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Well, shame on both sides on this. Honestly, that whole like you call me first, I will -- no, you call me first thing is just to pass the point of being tired.

I mean, Congressman, if you are one of the millions of Americans who lost that extra money from -- for unemployment, are you telling -- would you say to them at this point, give up on Congress, they are not going to come to your aid?

DENT: No, I wouldn't give up, because what will happen is, I'm afraid the relief is going to be deferred. There's going to be an election in a couple months. The Democrats run the table, there will be more aid.

I think there will be more aid regardless of who wins the election, because there must be. There are too many people out there who are struggling in their small businesses, unemployment, whatever the case may be. They're all struggling. They're all hurting.

We know the cases. So, I wouldn't give up on Congress. But, sadly, the Congress is just dithering while people are struggling. And they can reach an agreement. As I said earlier, the Problems Solvers Caucus is where I would start right now. That could get them to the finish line in a reasonable manner before the election.

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BOLDUAN: This dysfunction is one of the reasons I remember, Congressman, why you left Congress.

This dysfunction, Manu, is why you never get to see your family, is one of those things I know very well.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: Thank you both very much.

At least we can, I don't know, hold truth to power and remind everyone, this is your Congress. This is your representative government at work, or not, for you today.

Thanks, guys.

RAJU: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up next for us: so many, so many promising lives cut short by coronavirus.

I'm going to talk to one woman about her sister, her beloved sister, a doctor, 28 years old, guys, who fought to the very end.

We will be right back.

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