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Kentucky A.G. Daniel Cameron Holds Press Conference on Breonna Taylor Killing; No Officers Charged Directly with Breonna Taylor's Death. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired September 23, 2020 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
DANIEL CAMERON, KENTUCKY ATTORNEY GENERAL: And so as part of my role as the attorney general, I certainly recognize the part I have to play in making sure that all of our systems in government are improved upon, whether it be because of a particular matter that occurred or because from time to time, it's just the responsible thing to do.
Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did any of the officers ask
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did any of the officers ask to testify or present evidence to the grand jury? And were any allowed to?
CAMERON: Well, what I'll say on that -- I don't want to get into specifics -- but testimony was heard by the grand jury of all sorts of witnesses and folks.
So, again, all relevant information was provided to the grand jury for them to make their assessment.
Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When you look at the analysis of the path of the bullets, how was it that, Kenneth Walker, who fired the shot at the officers, was not hit and Breonna Taylor was hit so many times?
CAMERON: Well, that's part of the tragedy here. And again, I don't want to get into the specifics.
But the fact that she was hit breaks my heart and it breaks the collective heart of all the country.
But I don't want -- because we have a -- now an open prosecution, I don't want to get too into the details of the trajectories themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Two follow-up questions. One, I understand the names of grand jurors weren't released but what rule or standard prevents you from releasing the gender and racial makeup of the grand jury? And you mentioned Cosgrove fired the fatal shot but can you clarify
how many shots in all that hit by Ms. Taylor water fired by Mattingly and how many that hit Ms. Taylor were fired by Cosgrove?
CAMERON: As to the last question, it's inconclusive in terms of how many shots from each officer. We weren't able to identify with that level of specificity.
As to the makeup of the grand jury, we might be able to -- I need to confirm on that front about --
Yes.
The fact that this is received so much scrutiny, I think it would be inappropriate for me to share the information about the makeup of the grand jury to the extent I can protect them.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) -- or recommend that LMPD release it?
CAMERON: Well, look, the role we now have is to pursue the ongoing prosecution against Detective Hankison. So, I think it would be irresponsible at this juncture for this office to release any sort of file. Again, because we have this ongoing prosecution.
And I'm not going to comment and I think I shouldn't be recommending any recommendations, again, because of the ongoing prosecution, any sort of recommendation as it relates to a release of a file.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going to have time for two more questions.
CAMERON: Daniel, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
CAMERON: I certainly don't think that -- whether it's the grand jury or our responsibility as the investigators or prosecutors, is to find the truth.
So, when folks from outside the commonwealth suggest or make their preferences or opinions known, it should have no bearing on our role as prosecutor and investigator and fact finder.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
CAMERON: Even with folks within the commonwealth.
Again, this is a tragedy. I don't want to lose sight of that. But we have a responsibility to look at the facts as they are.
And we can't be in the business -- I don't think we want a justice system in the position of fashioning facts or laws to a particular narrative.
We have to be in the business of presenting the information to the grand jury and ultimately allowing them to make a decision about what to do subsequently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last question.
CAMERON: Actually, far in back. My apology.
Actually, we'll take these last two here.
OK, so, either one can start.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you very much, sir.
I wanted to ask if you -- if you believe, personally, that someone should have been charged with homicide or one of the similar charges in this case?
And if you could, please walk us through what happened after officers knocked on the door. Did they hear any answer? How long did they wait before everything erupted?
[14:35:07]
So both of those questions. And thank you very much.
CAMERON: As to your first question, again, this is about what the grand jury decided.
I -- one of the misconceptions out there is that the attorney general's office was in the business of making charges. And that's just simply not the case under Kentucky law.
Our role is to present the information to the grand jury. We dispensed with that responsibility. We did it after a protracted investigation that uncovered all of the facts. That was our role. That was our responsibility.
And we presented everything to grand jury for them to ultimately make a judgment about what to do next. And in this case, in this instance, they decided to indict Detective Hankison.
As to your other question about what was provided to the grand jury, I can't get into the details or the specifics on that particular issue.
Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes, sir. In the beginning, you said you spoke with Breonna Taylor's family today. I know you can't tell us word for word what they said to you but how was the news received?
CAMERON: Well, it was a hard meeting. And I won't go any further. I won't elaborate. But it was a difficult meeting.
And look, when I ran for this office -- and I ran because I've had singular ideas in mind -- and you never know what issues you'll be presented with and what challenges you'll be presented with.
And today was one of those challenges to have to sit in that room and provide the information to Ms. Palmer and other members of the Taylor family. It's been a difficult day.
This has been a difficult day for everyone standing up here. This is a difficult day for those that have to report this. And it's a very difficult day for Louisville, all of the commonwealth, all of the country.
I recognize that. And I certainly recognize the responsibility I have in the healing process.
As I noted in my remarks, I hope those that are at home watching, those that perhaps have ideas about being angry or pained by this decision, I hope we will respond in a manner that respects our First Amendment rights but also respects our responsibility as the Bible talks about loving our neighbors.
And that we can do so, keeping Breonna Taylor's legacy in mind. But also in a way that respects Louisville, our city, the city I live in, that respects all of our community.
Again, this is a hard day. I am under no illusion that it is not.
And all I can offer is that our office uncovered every fact that was relevant to the wee hours of -- the morning hours of March 13th.
We provided that information to the grand jury. And we all now, whether you're all sitting here, whether you're at home, know the results of that process.
And now we have the responsibility to prosecute that indictment, move forward in that matter.
But all of us have a responsibility to work together to find common ground, to find ways to love one another and just be good neighbors.
So, that's what I implore. As you all report on this in a responsible manner, that's what I implore, those that are watching on television, we all have the responsibility of coming together now. I hope you will take that charge seriously.
Our governor likes to talk about Team Kentucky. And I believe him, earnestly in that charge.
And I hope that extends to the results that were issued here today. And I hope that extends to all of our neighbors in all of our communities.
Thank you and God bless.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right, I want to bring in Laura Coates, our CNN legal analyst, and Areva Martin, another one of our CNN legal analysts, to talk about what we've just seen from the attorney general in Kentucky.
I want to reset what has happened here. One of three officers who fired into the apartment of Breonna Taylor has been charged. Only one. Three counts of wanton endangerment in the first degree. That is the indictment handed down by the grand jury.
[14:40:09]
But none of those charges have to do with the death of Breonna Taylor.
And just to take people back to the night of March 13th and what happened here, on one side of that door, of apartment four, Breonna Taylor's apartment, were police executing a warrant that had to do with a narcotics ring involving Breonna Taylor's ex-boyfriend, who was not present at the apartment that night.
And this was a no-knock warrant. But according to what we heard from the attorney general, it had been told to them by superiors that they needed to announce themselves. And there was, it appears, one witness that said that they did.
But to hear it from Breonna Taylor's then-boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, who was inside, all he heard was knocking. He didn't know it was policy. And they were certainly very alarmed to hear him tell it.
And when the door came off the hinges, he said he fired a shot. And that is a shot that hit Sergeant Jon Mattingly in this case. He returned fire. Detective Cosgrove returned fire.
And I just want, Laura and Areva, for you to weigh in here. Because there's still a lot of unanswered questions about why they couldn't determine who fired that fatal shot.
And then also the fact that this whole process didn't even deal with obtaining the warrant, when that's a question of ,why were they were there that night and how they obtained and executed this.
Laura, what do you think?
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think that this morning, when we woke up, 194 days had passed since the killing of Breonna Taylor and not a single officer had been charged or fired for that particular aspect.
And today and tomorrow, it will be 195 days because nothing has changed with the indictment because they're not dealing with the killing of Breonna Taylor.
What they've charged now has been the fact that somebody could have died through the wanton behavior of Officer Hankinson, the ex-Officer Hankison, who fired indiscriminately at a neighboring apartment.
And it's those three charges that are dealing with those particular occupants and not that of Breonna Taylor.
The reason for this, the reason they're giving it is because they believe the officers who did shoot into the apartment, the two officers not charged, were justified in using lethal force because they had first been fired upon by Kenneth Walker, the boyfriend of Breonna Taylor, who felt in fear for his life and that of Breonna Taylor. When you look at all of these things, it's inconclusive as to which
bullet, which gun was the one responsible for having shot six times into Breonna Taylor.
The fact that was not the real focus of the grand jury process, the idea they were focusing instead on those who could have died, which is important, but those who could have died verse a woman who actually did.
When you think about it and try to reconcile that point when they're shouting in the streets that Black Lives Matter. Apparently, it took the potential for life to be lost.
And I think he tried, in what seems his best effort, the attorney general, to quell any potential unrest by pointing out there was not enough information to conclude that their actions were unjustified.
And that, once again, shows why often times justice just feels like the carrot is always dangled and never actually caught.
KEILAR: Yes.
Areva, I wonder what you think, especially as we talk about these charges when they have to do with Detective Hankison.
What we heard from the attorney general was none of the shots that he fired, which appear to be completely indiscriminately fires, 10 of them, through a window and a sliding door that had shades or some sort of visible obstruction on it, none of those were responsible or even shot Breonna Taylor.
But that is of little comfort to people who are looking at this process and hoping there would be more accountability.
AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Brianna, there are a couple of things that struck me about the press conference and the attorney general.
Definitely the point that Laura made and you're making about the charges with respect to bullets that didn't shoot any person, that went into a wall, that went into space.
But no charges with respect to the many bullets we know, at least six, that went into Breonna Taylor's body and resulted in her death.
And the conversation about the witnesses. That the "New York Times" reporter said investigators, reporters all over the country have combed that apartment complex and talked to as many as 12 witnesses and only one person heard the police announce themselves.
And somehow, on the basis of the one witness, verses 12 that heard nothing, there was a determination the police did announce themselves.
I think all people are going to have a difficult time believing that and being able to accept that as a justification for police entering of the apartment. And the other thing, even though the attorney general got emotional at
times and he was kind of preaching to people about stay focused on the facts, understand what the role of an attorney general is and police investigators and grand juries are.
[14:45:08]
I don't think people are going to be -- it's not going to be lost on people that this is an attorney general that appeared at the Republican National Convention and spoke on behalf of Donald Trump.
And knowing his office was investigating a case of this magnitude that would take on the kind of grand magnitude that it does in terms of Black Lives Matter movement.
To, have him associated with that convention and Donald Trump's message about mobs and law-and-order, riots and all the pejorative terms that he's attached to people peacefully protesting.
I just think it left something to be desired and probably undermined his credibility to a certain extent.
KEILAR: And to that point, I wonder what both of you think about that. I question the judgment of the Kentucky attorney general saying, quote, "Mob justice is not justice." He said it becomes revenge.
That's not being said in a vacuum, Laura, because that word "the mob" and the president having said that if Joe Biden wins, the mob wins, we know this is very politically-loaded language.
It has already been seized by people on both sides of this debate about what we're seeing in this fight for criminal justice reform in this country.
I wonder what you thought about him choosing those words when clearly this was something he -- he chose his words carefully.
COATES: Well, it was not coincidental, nor was his statements about, well, don't let outsiders or celebrities or the media or influencers try to tell Kentucky people how to feel. You should make sure you are all understanding that these are all outsiders.
These are triggering words for people. Hidden gestures to show he was demonstrating that he was well aware of the talking points that are out there.
And I found it problematic, particularly given the great odds and length he went through to talk about why he took so long to come to his conclusion, to put it before the grand jury, that he wanted to make sure there was objectivity, no hint of impropriety.
Then you have a bullhorn in front of your face as you use these certain words. That's was Areva was talking about, the idea this will feel and ring hollow as disingenuous.
Remember, all the discussions about mob violence really are an attempt to conflate people who are rightfully and righteously peacefully protesting with those engaged in behavior that might be criminal.
But people who are talking about this case, Brianna, are asking him, why did you not choose manslaughter. Why, if there was a wanton disregard for human life, was that not an available option for the grand jury?
I been in front of grand juries. The idea that it was the grand jury who chose those charges and the grand jury who decided on the claims.
Every time I have indicted someone, it was me, as the prosecutor, presenting the relevant statutes to the grand jury. It was not the other way around where they told me how to prosecute a case.
I found that --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Did you find that clear? Was that clear to you? Was that clear to you, Laura?
Because there was a reporter who asked, were they presented with counts regarding Cosgrove and Mattingly, and perhaps your legal ear might have discerned an answer to that question that mine did not.
COATES: Well, the answer that he gave the second time he was asked was to say, they had all the actual statutes of homicide and all the different levels.
It did not answer the specific question, which was I could describe to you what the Kentucky laws say about murder and homicide and manslaughter. But did I present those actual charges?
Did he say here are the charges that I'm seeking an indictment on. Here are -- please vote on whether you can indict on these charges.
What he's suggesting, and -- Areva, I'd love to hear your opinion on this.
What he suggested, instead of, we told them generally the universe of things. And then, they told us what they wanted us to do with it. That's not how indictments work.
Remember, prosecutors, for good or bad, they can prosecute ham sandwiches. It's not because the deli tells what to do. It's because we're in control of that particular room.
KEILAR: I want to bring in
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Just -- Areva, I'm so sorry.
I do want to bring in Shimon because he's on the ground in Louisville and I want him to explain to us what he's seeing.
Shimon? SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, we're now --
we've been marching for, Brianna, several blocks. As you can see, we're here marching through the streets.
So, as we said, much of downtown has been shut down. A lot of the people in this group were inside the square, the park, the Jefferson Square Park, when the announcement came.
[14:49:59]
Within minutes, obviously very unhappy. I saw people crying, people very unhappy about what happened here and the grand jury decision.
Now, they're just marching through the streets. It's not clear where we're going, where we're heading.
There are police officers. And the police in the distance. There have been small pockets of confrontations between the police and some of the protesters. It's been mostly peaceful.
They've been chanting Breonna Taylor's name and marching through the streets together and voicing their unhappiness.
They haven't gotten an opportunity to hear what the attorney general has said. So, they haven't reacted to that.
But now, we're stopped here. There's several cars. And as the protesters continue to gather throughout Louisville -- Brianna?
KEILAR: All right, Shimon.
And we're continuing to keep an eye on what we are seeing with the reaction to this announcement that no officers have been charged directly with Breonna Taylor's death.
Just one of the three officers charged. And it had to do with firing bullets into another adjacent apartment to Breonna Taylor's that had three occupants in it.
I want to bring in our CNN law enforcement analyst, Charles Ramsey, and Don Lemon, who is the anchor of "CNN Tonight."
Charles, before we went to the attorney general here, we were talking. You said you didn't want it lost that Kenneth Walker had fired shots.
But on either side of this door, there were two realities about what was going on.
When you hear Kenneth Walker talking about it, he was saying he had no idea who was coming in. He was legally carrying a firearm that he fired. He didn't know it was police.
And police saying, according to the A.G., they had a witness that said they knocked and they announced.
We know that Breonna Taylor and her boyfriend, Kenneth, heard the knocking. Whether they understood it was police, Kenneth says, no, they did not, and he fired.
And so you have the two officers that opened fire after being fired upon. And there's the question of: Why were they there? How did they obtain this warrant?
What do you think about what you heard from the attorney general?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: First, I learned that none of the officers that executed the warrant were the officers that applied for the search warrant to begin with.
KEILAR: That's right.
RAMSEY: They were simply executing the search warrant. They had no idea, other than the fact that they were at a particular address and had a valid search warrant and so forth.
Apparently, they did knock. Mr. Walker says they knocked. One witness said they heard the officers announce. And I understand that is a point that --
KEILAR: And you know many, many witnesses did not hear that, right?
RAMSEY: I understand.
KEILAR: So this is one witness who heard it. Yes.
RAMSEY: I fully understand that. The purpose of the knock is not for the witnesses. It's for the people inside the apartment. It's the early morning hours. People could have been asleep, what have you.
But the bottom line is, they had a valid warrant. It was a no-knock warrant. They didn't have to knock.
This is a tragedy no matter how you look at it.
When you think about, you know, they go through the door, forced entry. One officer is shot. They returned fire. It is a tragedy, plain and simple. They were justified in returning fire, in my opinion.
Nobody had the information that we're discussing now. These are things that have come out now. And we're all aware of it. At the time, when you're executing a warrant, you're reacting to what's going on.
And one officer was shot in the thigh. He returns fire and his partner returns fire. Unfortunately, Ms. Taylor was struck and killed. It's just tragic.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMSEY: I would like to see the warrant, though. I don't know why they didn't look at that.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: They said, we didn't deal with the obtainment of the warrant. That's what the feds are dealing with, is how he explained that.
RAMSEY: Right.
KEILAR: But, Don, I know Charles says it's tragic. It is tragic.
When we think about what happens here and what comes out of this, there's a task force that the attorney general has announced for obtaining and the execution of warrants. Clearly, an admission that that didn't go as it should have.
There's a local law now against these no-knock warrants, Breonna's law. And $12 million to the estate from the city for Breonna Taylor.
She's -- it's her life, Don. There's so many people looking at this and saying, what is it worth.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST, "CNN TONIGHT": Right. Well, I'm glad you led into me that way. I'll let the law enforcement people, the attorneys, deal with that part of it.
I can only speak to the tragedy that this is. And my thoughts go out to Tamika Palmer and the rest of the Taylor family right now.
[14:54:58]
Just looking at this story, as a human being, as an American, as someone who is part of a family, someone knocks on your door in the middle of the night and you're sleeping, you don't know if they hear you, if the knocks are being heard or what people are saying.
So they're saying it was not a no-knock warrant and they say they identified themselves. But you don't know if the people in the house heard that.
And these things, as the attorney general said, happened very quickly. If you are -- you have people shooting, going back and forth.
The tragedy is that Breonna Taylor is dead on a warrant that was, I would imagine, gained through information and evidence that was not there. They didn't find drugs at the place.
Breonna Taylors's ex-boyfriend, who was arrested for drugs and has admitted to it, has said that Breonna Taylor had nothing to do with drug trafficking at all.
There's no drugs at the house. They never found drugs at the house. The person they were looking for at the house was not there.
Breonna Taylor, who is a medical aid, an emergency worker -- remember, this happened during the early parts of COVID. Someone who was out there putting her life on the line, trying to help people.
They go there with a battering ram. They said they didn't think that anybody else was there. They thought she was alone.
Why the battering ram if you thought she was there alone. Why so much fire power if you thought Breonna Taylor, a medical emergency worker, was there alone?
There's a number of things that don't add up.
I agree with the attorney general when he says we have to be prudent. We should protest with this. I don't believe in the violence.
But, to me, I don't understand, Brianna, why this attorney general, who had such a big case ahead of him, knowing he would have to announce whatever charges, whatever came out of this case, why he would choose to go speak at the Republican convention.
Remember, this was the same convention with the St. Louis couple who pulled guns on protesters in St. Louis.
Why he would go on such a politically-charged event, at such a politically-charged and racially charged time and do that?
So his creditability is at stake with announcing these charges.
Again, work out the evidence. I think everyone should listen to the evidence. We should be prudent about it.
There should be no violence. People should protest if they want. That's their prerogative.
But I want you to think, as a person, someone knocks on your door in the middle of the night looking for something that is not there, and for a person, evidence, that is not there.
And all of a sudden, your loved one ends up dying from it. That's where my heart goes.
They will figure out what happens to the officers. And he said he's going to investigate it vigorously. OK, investigate it vigorously.
But what happens to Breonna Taylor's family? Nobody can bring Breonna Taylor back. No one can make up for the heartbreak for Tamika Palmer and the rest of the family.
That's what I am thinking about now as we're looking at all of this unfolding. I call it the summer of George Floyd. And this may be the fall of Breonna Taylor.
KEILAR: And these mistakes, as you hear law enforcement and the A.G., admitting problems with obtaining the warrant. Why were they at the first place? Should they have been there. It seems --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: What was the evidence? What was the evidence?
KEILAR: how they executed it.
LEMON: Yes --
(CROSSTALK) KEILAR: But I guess my questions is --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- these mistakes -- these mistakes -- they say there are mistakes that lead to this and they admit this.
And the A.G. said something about the justice system being inadequate for addressing these kinds of things. It certainly feels that way, Don.
LEMON: Yes. It does.
And again, I wasn't there. I don't know what happened. I can only imagine when someone is knocking on your door and officers are using a battering ram to go in that things are happening extremely quickly, for the officers and for the people who are inside the home.
I know that police officers are under tremendous pressure and tremendous danger for a big part of their jobs. But it is their job.
It is part of their job to execute things in a manner that de- escalates situations. And that's what their training is supposed to provide for them, ways to do that.
It appears that at least one of the officers in this case didn't do that. And that's why he is charged with three charges.
But, again, I think it's an awful tragedy for the family. We should be thinking about the family at this moment and what they are dealing with.
[14:59:56]
KEILAR: Yes, certainly. They feel this is outrageous, the indictment handed down, which has nothing to do with Breonna Taylor's death. It has to do with the endangerment of three people in an apartment next to hers.
