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Interview with Louisville Urban League President and CEO Sadiqa Reynolds; Interview with New York Times Opinion Columnist Nicholas Kristof; "John Lewis: Good Trouble" Airs Sunday on CNN. Aired 10:30- 11a ET

Aired September 24, 2020 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Brynn Gingras joins us now from Louisville. And Brynn, I wonder just quickly what the situation is like on the ground there now, and how is Breonna Taylor's family responding?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes good morning, guys. It's peaceful on the ground right now. Remember, that curfew was lifted at about 6:30 this morning, it'll go back into effect at 9:00 tonight and will remain for the next two days at least.

I'm here at Jefferson Square Park, which we know of course has been the center of Breonna Taylor's memorial, and these volunteers are setting it up again, it was shielded from the rain last night, ready for another day of likely what will be more protests, more raw emotion spilling out into the streets, tears shed just like we saw yesterday.

So if that's how people are feeling just marching, saying Breonna's name, you can imagine what Breonna Taylor's family is feeling this morning. There is just so much emotion and so much uncertainty, questions about how did this happen.

Now, we're learning from Breonna Taylor's attorney, the family's attorney, that they weren't really told well in advance like they said they would be, about the indictment, about what this was going to reveal by the grand jury.

Apparently, the Kentucky attorney general didn't really give them much of a heads up before he went in front of the cameras and told the public. I want you to hear more from their attorney about their opinions about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR BREONNA TAYLOR'S FAMILY: They are wondering, the Kentucky attorney general, Daniel Cameron, present any evidence on behalf of Breonna Taylor. And if so, what to yield (ph) a result like this, to give an endangerment charge on her white neighbor's apartment, but not a charge for the six bullets that went into her daughter?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: Now, the attorney general is not giving any information about his conversations with Taylor's family. And again, it's just more questions, right, Jim? You talked to Kentucky's governor in the last hour, he's saying the attorney general should release the transcripts of the grand jury proceedings, try to get some of the information about what they were learning in those proceedings.

There's also just calls for just more information from the FBI, how is their investigation going to turn out. And then of course we know that investigation is ongoing with the Louisville Metro Police Department regarding all the officers involved in this case -- guys.

SCIUTTO: Brynn Gingras in Louisville, thanks very much.

Our next guest is a civil rights activist who made a powerful statement in Louisville late last month as she pushed for justice for Breonna Taylor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADIQA REYNOLDS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, LOUISVILLE URBAN LEAGUE: I love Louisville, Kentucky, I gave birth to my two children here. I may die here. But you know what? I've found the thing that I'm willing to die doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now is that woman, Sadiqa Reynolds, the president and CEO of the Louisville Urban League.

And re-watching that whole six minutes from you this morning, it was that last line that struck me so much. I mean, you said I -- like, these issues are so serious, I am willing to die for them. Could you speak broadly to what this moment, this lack of charges in Breonna Taylor's killing, what it means for your city?

REYNOLDS: It means for my city that we are one, just another American city where black lives does not matter, where the people that we have elected to represent us, to protect us, to serve us won't do it, will not do it, do not value us.

This -- the pain is palpable in this city, the rage is real and we are not even being allowed to grieve, we are not even being allowed the opportunity to process the pain of yet again another disappointment.

We somehow got our hopes up in this case. We wanted to believe that the system could change, that people had heard us. We certainly made some progress along the way, and I think we were encouraged. And so to once again be knocked on our heels last night or yesterday, when the attorney general spoke, it was devastating.

And I'll tell you, Louisville, Kentucky will not ever be the same. We are forever changed because of this case.

SCIUTTO: I spoke with the governor of Kentucky a few moments ago, Governor Beshear, Democrat, and he said he's calling on the attorney general -- who's a Republican, Daniel Cameron -- to release all information, evidence related to this case to the investigation of Breonna Taylor. In your view, is that essential? What difference would that make in your view?

REYNOLDS: Oh, it's tremendously essential. Because you have the attorney general saying that you know, their -- these officers' behavior was justifiable? Well, we'd like to hear what he presented to the grand jury.

You have the attorney general telling us that there were six bullets in her body, not five. The death certificate says five, so we'd like to understand better how they came to that conclusion, what study was done, where did they get that information.

[10:35:11]

You heard the attorney general say that there was someone who confirmed that he heard police saying -- announce themselves. Well, we understand that there were at least 11 other people who say they did not hear police announce themselves, so we'd like to know, did the grand jury know that there were other people?

Did the grand jury know that Kenny Walker called the police, called 911 to say, we need the police, help me, someone has kicked in the door and Breonna has been harmed. Did the grand jury know that? Do they have all of the information?

What we need to know in Louisville, Kentucky is, what was the tremendous difference between the grand jury process that Kenneth Walker went through -- he is the boyfriend of Breonna Taylor, he was in the home with her that night, and he fired at one of the officers. He was indicted in less than three minutes in the grand jury process, OK?

So two days of grand jury for these police officers, and we get no indictment related to her death? Well I mean, that is very curious. What is this grand jury process that these police --

(CROSSTALK)

REYNOLDS: -- officers were subject to -- yes, I'm sorry?

HARLOW: No, please, do not apologize, I wish we had much more time with you. But because you bring up the grand jury process and the attorney general, I wanted to play for you and our viewers what we heard from him, and get your reaction on the other side. Here is Kentucky's attorney general, Daniel Cameron, last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL CAMERON (R), ATTORNEY GENERAL OF KENTUCKY: I certainly understand the pain that has been brought about by the tragic loss of Ms. Taylor. I understand that as a black man, how painful this is.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: What are your thoughts, hearing that?

REYNOLDS: It -- oh. It is -- you know what, I watched that, and I did not hear him say that, as a black man. Because the attorney general, I think, has been on record saying that he has not experienced racism, and so that is an interesting comment. And whether he understands or not, it is not for me to criticize him personally. My issue is with the process.

I'm an attorney, I know what it takes to get someone indicted. It is not a hard process at all. In fact, you all know lawyers joke about it all the time, a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich.

He should have presented the entire case. This idea of question -- whatever there is that is in question, the five or the six, the witnesses, these are things that should have been allowed to go to a jury. Our attorney general failed us yesterday, he failed the family of Breonna Taylor.

And whether he feels the pain of that or not, only God will know. But I can tell you for sure as a black woman in this city, I am feeling the pain, my community is feeling the pain and we have more than 100 people in jail who felt the pain so much that it spilled out onto the concrete, into our streets. And that's what happens when you push -- that's what happens when you push pain down, it has to be released.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Sadiqa Reynolds, thank you very much. I know -- well, I don't know how painful it is for you, but I can empathize with that and I appreciate you being here this morning, very very much.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: And of course, we invite Kentucky's attorney general, Daniel Cameron, to join us on this show at any time, to talk more about it.

Sadiqa, thank you. And our thoughts are with your city --

SCIUTTO: Thank you, Sadiqa.

HARLOW: -- yes, for sure.

(CROSSTALK)

REYNOLDS: Thank you both, thank you both.

[10:38:48]

HARLOW: We'll be right -- we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Well, far too often, we lose sight of the devastating effects of this pandemic on the developing world. But journalist Nicholas Kristof will not let us miss this. He writes in "The New York Times," quote, "A pandemic of disease,

illiteracy and extreme poverty is following on the heels of this coronavirus pandemic, and it is hitting children the hardest." Nicholas Kristof is with us now.

Nicholas, if we can pull that photo up again on top of your piece, it was that photo that broke me, and that made me think, I -- we are not doing enough on this. We are not covering this enough, our country isn't paying enough attention to this.

And you write, "In this sense, many of those whom COVID-19 kills never actually get the disease." What is happening?

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, OPINION COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: So in the developing world -- I mean, obviously, COVID-19 is infecting and killing some people. And you know, as in the United States, they're disproportionately elderly people. But what it's doing even more than that is disrupting all kinds of public health efforts and the economy. And so children are dying of malnutrition.

You know, one study in Uganda found that 97 percent of families had shrinking incomes, almost a third were down to one meal a day. And in that situation, it's children who suffer the most and especially girls.

HARLOW: Can you talk about the girls a little bit more? Because you write about forced marriages just so they can get fed.

KRISTOF: Yes. And again, the effects go so much beyond COVID-19. For example, there are campaigns against female genital mutilation that have been suspended, and so the estimates are there will be a lot more girls who will be mutilated.

[10:45:09]

The U.N. estimates there will be 13 million more girls who are subjected to child marriages. Because if your family doesn't have enough income, you try to marry your 13- or 14-year-old daughter off to another family that might have resources to feed her.

Kids drop out of school. If you don't have enough money, then you may be willing to pay your sons' school fees, but not your daughters'. And so disproportionately, the effects hit children and especially girls.

HARLOW: Nicholas, you talk about rich nations being small-minded and self-absorbed. I'm really worried about what that's going to mean when there's a vaccine. Do the rich get it first, do the privileged get it first and what happens to the rest of the world? Are you worried about that?

KRISTOF: Absolutely. And you know, in some ways, it's self-defeating. I mean, obviously, I understand the impulse to vaccinate your own people, but one of the things we've learned with an infectious disease is that we live in a globalized world, and as long as some people are at risk, then we're all at risk. And so I think we need to make a better effort to make sure that the

entire world gets vaccinated, and that we also try to address these other related issues of people going without food, going without -- you know, vitamin A campaigns have been suspended, so children go blind. Polio eradication has been hurt, so we'll have polio longer in this world. There's so many downstream effects that we are ignoring because we are self-absorbed right now.

HARLOW: Very quickly, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation put out a report last week, Nicholas, that said in 25 weeks, we have lost 25 years of gains for this world. What are the long-term impacts of this for years?

KRISTOF: For --

HARLOW: For years to come.

KRISTOF: You said the long-term impact. Oh, so I think in particular, there will be many, many more malnourished children, we -- and that has lifelong effects, and we'll see -- you know, the great achievement of the modern world has been this huge reduction in child mortality and in extreme poverty, and this year, after decades of progress, that is being reversed on our watch because of COVID.

HARLOW: Wow. Nicholas Kristof, I urge everyone to read your column. Thank you. Thank you, as I say, for fighting the good fight and making us more aware --

KRISTOF: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: -- of all of this. Nicholas Kristof, thank you.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:52:05]

HARLOW: Thousands of protests, 45 arrests, 33 years in Congress: the new CNN film, "JOHN LEWIS: GOOD TROUBLE" tells the story of the Civil Rights giant who truly changed America.

SCIUTTO: CNN's Victor Blackwell looks back on the life of the Civil Rights leader and the iconic congressman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. JOHN LEWIS (D-GA): -- get in trouble, what I call good trouble, necessary trouble.

(APPLAUSE)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Lewis lived by that motto for decades in the fight for civil and voting rights, and as a member of Congress for 17 terms. It started in his hometown of Troy, Alabama. He hated the discrimination in the segregated South of the 1940s and '50s.

LEWIS: And I would ask my mother, my father, my grandparents and my great-grandparents why? They would say, boy, that's the way it is, don't get in the way. Don't get in trouble.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): But he did get into good trouble, and early. Lewis was 19 years old when he was part of the first lunch counter sit-in that led to the desegregation of downtown Nashville.

LEWIS: There was a moving feeling within me that I was sitting there, demanding a God-given right. And in spite of all of this, I have to keep loving the people who deny me service.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): He demanded those rights as the youngest speaker at the March on Washington --

LEWIS: We must say, wake up, America, wake up for we cannot stop and we will not and cannot be patient.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): -- and at the foot of the Edmund Pettus Bridge, during a march for voting rights where he and hundreds of other protestors were beaten and trampled.

In 1986, he was elected to Congress to represent Georgia's Fifth District, which includes Atlanta. And for more than 30 years, Lewis continued the fight for voting rights and more: the humane treatment of the undocumented.

LEWIS: There cannot be any peace in America until these young children return to their parents.

TEXT: It was wonderful to once again participate in the Atlanta Pride Parade.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): LGBTQ rights, and the rights of children to be safe in schools.

LEWIS: -- be unafraid. Do your job, bring common-sense gun control legislation to a vote. We need it, and we need it now.

To the leadership of the United States Congress and all of my colleagues (ph) --

BLACKWELL (voice-over): And he pushed for the creation of the National Museum of African-American History and Culture.

Lewis died in July from pancreatic cancer. At his funeral, the breadth and depth of his impact was clear. Three presidents spoke. So did Tybre Faw, just 12 years old. He called Lewis his hero and friend. He was invited to read Lewis' favorite poem, "Invictus."

And just a few weeks ago, a 15-year-old student invoked the congressman after she posted a picture of her crowded high school during the coronavirus pandemic.

HANNAH WATTERS, GEORGIA HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: I'd like to say that this is some good and necessary trouble.

LEWIS: When you see something that is not right, not fair, not just, say something, do something. Get in trouble.

[10:55:07]

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Victor Blackwell, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Wow. Victor, thank you so much, I cannot wait to see this film --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: -- it is a CNN original film, "JOHN LEWIS: GOOD TROUBLE." You will see it Sunday night at 9:00 Eastern, right here.

Thank you all for being with us today. As we said at the beginning, it is quite a day already and it's not even 11:00 a.m. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: Quite a day, a week, a month, a year. And I'm Jim Sciutto. NEWSROOM with John King will start right after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]