Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Protests Erupt over Breonna Taylor Case; Trump Won't Commit to Peaceful Transition; Trump May Overrule FDA on Vaccine Guidelines; Protests Erupt Over Decision in Breonna Taylor Case; U.S. Braces for Potentially Worse Second Coronavirus Wave; New Exhibit Offers Intensive Look Inside Moria Refugee Camp. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired September 24, 2020 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello, everyone, I'm Michael Holmes. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.
At this hour, protesters hit the streets in cities across the United States demanding justice for a Black woman gunned down by police inside her apartment.
The peaceful transition to power is a American tradition but in the age of Donald Trump, nothing is guaranteed.
And the politicization of the coronavirus pandemic on full display in Washington as lawmakers clashed with health officials over science.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: A warm welcome, everyone.
Right now there is outrage across the U.S., with protesters in a number of cities demanding justice after a grand jury decided not to charge Louisville police officers directly with the death of Breonna Taylor.
The 26-year old was shot and killed by police in her apartment back in March while they executed a no-knock search warrant as part of a drug investigation. Louisville police say two officers have been shot amid the unrest, the incident caught on the department's live stream on Facebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired.
HOLMES (voice-over): And we are told the two officers have been treated for injuries; the suspect is in custody. Members of Kentucky's National Guard have also been deployed to the city.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HOLMES: Meanwhile in the nation's capital, hundreds gathering outside the White House, marching throughout the city for hours now. And protesters also taking to the streets right here in Atlanta. Police can be seen firing tear gas and a number of demonstrators have been arrested.
For now, CNN's Stephanie Elam joins me now from Los Angeles.
What are you seeing there in L.A., Steph?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michael, I can tell you that, for about 6 hours here in Los Angeles, people have been protesting but there have been different protests.
This one is obviously very active, a lot of marching as you can see. I would estimate there's a couple hundred people that came out for this one. An earlier protest was scheduled. It's one that happens every single Wednesday. And that one is a local protest but some of that was about Breonna Taylor.
And then this other protest that has been going on for about 2 hours or so, here in downtown Los Angeles. And we see that people are now, it looks like they are kneeling. They are having a moment right now, where they are talking about Breonna Taylor.
People have signs, they have shirts, lots of honking; people following the route here, which has been very wide and long here in downtown Los Angeles.
But really, again, like we saw in the summer, Michael, we are seeing people of all walks of life out here. Definitely there is some frustration out here that is more intense in the way that it is being displayed than in earlier ones.
But for the most part, people are (INAUDIBLE), they're marching, lots of honking, lots of blowing of horns and holding up their signs. This one was organized rather quickly, it seems, prepared to happen, once we did hear from the attorney general in Kentucky. There was an alert that went out through social media to let people know that this was going to happen here in Los Angeles.
So now looking at the time now, it's about 9 o'clock, so still early enough for people to be out. But we do see the police have been above by helicopter, they have been on the ground as well. For the most part letting this happen and letting this play out in Los Angeles, Michael.
HOLMES: Good to have you on the scene, Stephanie, we will check in with you a little later. Thanks so much Stephanie in L.A.
Now Breonna Taylor's death is one of numerous police killings, of course, that have fueled the protests in the Black Lives Matter movement. CNN's Jason Carroll with more on the grand jury's decision from Louisville.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former detective Brett Hankison faces three charges of wanton endangerment in the first degree. Two other officers who responded that night with gunfire, Jonathan Mattingly and Myles Cosgrove, were investigated, but do not face any criminal charges.
[00:05:00]
DANIEL CAMERON (R-KY), ATTORNEY GENERAL: According to Kentucky law, the use of force by Mattingly and Cosgrove was justified to protect themselves.
CARROLL: The charges against Hankison are in relation to shots he fired that ripped through a neighboring apartment.
CAMERON: Based on the evidence there is nothing conclusive to say that Detective Hankison, any of his bullets hit Ms. Taylor.
CARROLL: In the months following Taylor's death, there has been much speculation surrounding the details of what happened the night on March 13 when police showed up serving a no-knock warrant.
The attorney general says evidence shows Officers Mattingly and Cosgrove knocked and identified themselves before breaching Taylor's door and he says there is an independent witness to corroborate their account.
But Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, disputes the claim. Walker says he didn't hear police announce themselves and thought someone was trying to break in, so he fired a shot. Police have said that shot hit Mattingly in the leg.
KENNETH WALKER, BREONNA TAYLOR'S BOYFRIEND: All of a sudden, someone started beating on the door. They refused to answer when we yelled, who is it? Fifteen minutes later, Breonna was dead from a hail of police gunfire.
CARROLL: The attorney general says an FBI analysis determined the shot that killed Taylor came from Cosgrove.
CAMERON: The fatal shot was fired by Detective Cosgrove.
CARROLL: Mattingly's attorney says -- The justice system worked. The death of Breonna Taylor is a tragedy, but these officers did not act in a reckless or unprofessional manner. They did their duty, performed their roles as law enforcement officers and, above all, did not break the law.
The long-awaited announcement sparking immediate anger in the streets of Louisville, the attorney general asking for understanding.
CAMERON: There will be celebrities, influencers and activists who, having never lived in Kentucky, will try to tell us how to feel, suggesting they understand the facts of this case and that they know our community and the commonwealth better than we do. But they don't.
CARROLL: In the months since Taylor's death, her mother has wanted just one thing.
TAMIKA PALMER, BREONNA TAYLOR'S MOTHER : Criminal charges. They all four willingly committed a crime, so I don't think it is enough that one person should have to pay for it. It was a group effort, so...
CARROLL: Jason Carroll, CNN, Louisville, Kentucky.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: And responding to the unrest in Louisville, President Trump tweeting this, quote, "Praying for the 2 police officers shot tonight in Louisville, Kentucky. The federal government stands behind you and ready to help."
The president though didn't weigh in on the merits of Taylor's case or her death when asked about it on Wednesday, instead praising Kentucky's attorney general, Daniel Cameron, as a rising star in the Republican Party. And he praised himself when asked for his message to the Black community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My message is that I love the Black community and I have done more for the Black community than any other president.
And I say with a possible exception of Abraham Lincoln and I mean that with opportunities owns and with criminal justice reform, prison reform. What we have done for historically Black universities, colleges schools, nobody has done more. Abraham Lincoln let's give him the nod but beyond that no one has done more. I love the Black community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Donald Trump's opponent in the November election, Joe Biden, urging protesters to make their opinions known but not through violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D-DE), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: One thing I want to make clear, protesting makes a lot of sense and it's clear people should be able to speak. But no violence. No violence.
My heart goes out to Breonna Taylor's mom. The last thing that she needs is to see violence in the streets. So protest peacefully, no violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Bailey Loosemore is a reporter with the "Louisville Courier- Journal." She joins me now from Louisville, Kentucky.
I've been following you on Twitter as you have been covering this. Give us a sense of what you have been seeing on the streets there. BAILEY LOOSEMORE, "LOUISVILLE COURIER-JOURNAL": Yes, thank you so
much for having me. I appreciate it.
Today, it has actually been very tense here. I was out downtown and in Louisville earlier with protesters after they received word of the announcement. It has just been, 119 days of nonstop protests here off and on, with people gathering and expressing their opinions, mostly downtown.
But today we saw it spread through more of the city and it did get pretty tense, with quite a few people arrested already today. And, of course, the two officers shot as well.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: Yes, I was just going to pivot to that. The officers shot, reports of two officers shot.
But what has been the posture of law enforcement as the protests developed and the curfew passed?
LOOSEMORE: So there was a pretty large police presence even before the curfew began. I was on (INAUDIBLE) road, which is a very heavily independent business district. Here it's a lot of small businesses there.
And there was a large police presence there around 4:00 pm this afternoon and it has just been, you know, nonstop confrontations with the police since then.
[00:10:00]
LOOSEMORE: Even you know, leading up to the 9 pm curfew in past. Now I believe just a few minutes ago, reporters were, you know, reporting from downtown. There still people were being arrested now for being out past curfew around Jefferson Square Park, where the protests were predominantly taking place. So it has been quite a bit of back and forth.
HOLMES: And you say you have been there throughout all of this.
When the decision came down, was there an expectation one way or another?
And what is the depth of feeling about what was decided?
LOOSEMORE: I think a lot of people, we heard from professionals and experts who say that they did not expect charges to be filed and that wanton endangerment is what they were expecting.
So I think a lot of the protesters knew that was a possibility but they were still very much in shock, I believe, to see that not only was one of the three officers indicted but he wasn't indicted directly for shooting Breonna Taylor.
He was charged with wanton endangerment for shooting into a neighboring apartment. So I think that really -- you could maybe expect that really but when it becomes reality I think it just hit it home for people here, who definitely were angry and very, very emotional in the wake of it.
HOLMES: Absolutely. I understand. Bailey Loosemore more in Louisville, thanks so. Much
LOOSEMORE: Thanks have a good night.
HOLMES: Well, President Trump is refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power after Election Day. Yes, you heard that correctly. Refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power.
A nonviolent handover is, of course, a cornerstone of American democracy. Trump's stunning refusal to uphold that tradition goes further than his previous remarks that he wasn't sure whether he would accept the election results.
Extraordinary times.
The president repeated his false claim that mail-in ballots could lead to voter fraud.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Mr. President, real quickly. Win or lose all in this election, will you commit here today for a peaceful transferral of power after the election and there has been rioting and looting, rioting in Louisville, there's been rioting in many cities across this country red and your so called red and blue states, will you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transferral of power after the election?
TRUMP: We're going to have to see what happens. You know that. I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster.
QUESTION: I know that but people are rioting. Will you commit to making sure that there's a peaceful transferral of power?
TRUMP: We want to have to get rid of the ballots and you'll have a very trans - you'll have a very peaceful, there won't be a transfer frankly, there'll be a continuation. The ballots are out of control, you know it.
And you know who knows it better than anybody else?
The Democrats know it better than anybody else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: CNN White House correspondent John Harwood joins me now.
Good to see you, John. Donald Trump predicted the U.S. Supreme Court would decide the outcome of the November election so he's decided laws that haven't been broken will be broken and won't guarantee a peaceful transition of power.
You're a D.C. guy.
Ever heard anything like this?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, I haven't, Michael, and it's a dangerous game the president is playing. The peaceful transfer of power is the hallmark of U.S. democracy. It's characterized every transition that we've had, even when Richard Nixon in 1974 became the first president forced to resign his office, peaceful transition of power at that time.
And so the idea that the president is raising the specter of resisting that at a time when if you look at American cities during protests, you have what looked like armed malicious patrolling in Louisville tonight where there were demonstrations.
We saw it in Portland, we saw it in Kenosha. That's dangerous and people could lose their lives because of this loose talk from the president. Now do I think the president actually intends to try to resist the transfer of power if he loses the election as polls indicate he will, I doubt it.
He's full of it most of the time with his rhetoric and there's no particular evidence that he's bold or brave enough to try something like that. Never the less, that doesn't make it any less dangerous and it's why Mitt Romney condemned that rhetoric tonight.
HOLMES: Yes, remember this is the president who said the only way he could lose is if the election was rigged. I know you're not on the hill but have you heard congressional Republicans saying anything about this state of affairs or would you like these to see them running down the corridor, tomorrow saying. they haven't heard them or they have a meeting to get to?
[00:15:00]
HARDWOOD: We're likely to see a whole lot of the latter, maybe a little bit of the former. Mitt Romney, the senator from Utah, Republican presidential nominee in 2012, who happened to be the only senator to vote - Republican senator to vote to convict the president on the House impeachment charges. He spoke up tonight, said that rhetoric was unacceptable and it's a real test for Republican leaders as to how far they're willing to let President Trump go. Now it's one thing when you're in the rhetorical stage now, obviously will be a different one if we get post-election and the president is trying to under-cut or prevent the election results from being recognized.
But it's never the less incumbent on them to speak tonight and it's worth pointing out Michael, that the way the president is trying to undercut the legitimacy of the election, the way he's raising questions about the peaceful transfer of power, the discord that he is arising or creating with that kind of behavior is precisely what Vladimir Putin in Russia according to our intelligence agencies are trying to foment in the United States. And remember they helped elect Donald Trump in 2016, he welcomed that help, he's taken some actions in American foreign policy to benefit Russia and it's pretty striking spectacle that he is behaving in this way just five weeks before the election.
HOLMES: These are extraordinary times. John Hardwood, thanks for taking the time.
HARDWOOD: You bet.
HOLMES: The top U.S. COVID expert gets into a fiery back-and-forth with a Republican senator and known provocateur who actually contracted the virus.
We'll see how that played out. Place your bets.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: Welcome back.
President Trump is accusing the U.S. Food and Drug Administration of playing politics when it comes to stricter guidelines for approving a coronavirus vaccine. And he is threatening to overrule that agency.
On Wednesday, its commissioner made a commitment to America, vowing, quote, "The FDA will not authorize or approve a vaccine that we would not feel comparable giving to our families."
And he says the FDA will not bow to any political pressure. The agency is considering new rules that will likely push the vaccine approval past Election Day while they do due diligence.
That's not, however, what the president wanted to hear. He has repeatedly said a vaccine could be ready by November 3rd.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Why would they do this, when we come back with these great results?
I think you'll have those great results.
[00:20:00]
TRUMP: Why would we -- why would these people end it? (ph)
But we are going to look at it. We're going to take a look at it and ultimately the White House has to approve it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, during a Senate hearing on Wednesday, a Republican who actually contracted the virus challenged the need for restrictions aimed at curbing its spread.
Rand Paul basically said herd immunity is the way to go, suggesting that's how New Yorkers beat the pandemic.
However, the country's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, defended the U.S. response, saying shutting down was the only way to stop "the explosion of infection," as he put it. Here is part of their testy exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): They're no longer having the pandemic because they have enough immunity in New York City to actually stop it.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I challenge that, Senator, because --
PAUL: I'm afraid -- I'm afraid we're --
FAUCI: -- I want to -- please, sir, I would like to be able to do this because this happens with Senator Rand all the time.
You are not listening to what the director of the CDC said, that in New York it's about 22 percent. If you believe 22 percent is herd immunity, I believe you're alone in that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Dr. Fauci also told lawmakers a vaccine probably won't be widely available until early next year, even if one is approved by the end of this year. CNN's Nick Watt looks at how the FDA intends to authorize a treatment and some of the other headlines from across the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. STEPHEN HAHN, FDA COMMISSIONER: In the end, FDA will not authorize or approve a vaccine that we would not feel comfortable giving to our families.
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This pandemic now so politicized that, during hearings on Capitol Hill, the FDA commissioner also felt he had to say this.
HAHN: Decisions to authorize or prove any such vaccine or therapeutic will be made by the dedicated career staff at FDA through our thorough review processes and science will guide our decisions. FDA will not permit any pressure from anyone to change that.
DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: What stood out to me is that so many of the questions were about trust. And this is a position that I could not have imagined that we would be in several months ago.
WATT (voice-over): Today, Johnson & Johnson begins global phase 3 trials of its potential vaccine. The company says it could be ready for FDA review early next year -- and this is key. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine, unlike the others currently in phase 3 trials in the U.S., is a single dose. So easier, quicker to deploy.
Colleges across the country warned, this is far from over.
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Presidents -- and we've talked about this -- really need to plan for their spring semester to look similar to their fall semester and understand that a vaccine may not get to college students until late in the spring.
WATT (voice-over): Meantime, nationally, we seem stuck at around 40,000 new confirmed cases a day. Two weeks ago, just nine states were seeing average new case counts rise. Today, that number is 22.
In Kentucky, that average daily case count tripled since midsummer. A 36-year-old nurse named Cassie among the recently infected.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to be upset, I want to be angry. I want my daughter healthy.
WATT (voice-over): Nationally, death rates were falling but:
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That decline in that deaths that we were seeing in late August is no longer being sustained.
WATT (voice-over): We just passed 200,000 dead in America, could be over 300,000 by year's end political divisions do not help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got Democrats who want me to condemn people who are out at the presidential rally, I've got Republicans who want me to condemn people who are going to vigils. And at the end of the day, the virus doesn't care about your politics.
WATT: And the World Health Organization now saying it's not just the pandemic we need to fight; it is an infodemic. Mountains of misinformation that are undermining the fight against this virus, that are polarizing people and that are, frankly, costing lives.
They are calling on all of us to fight this misinformation because, as they say, the closer we get to a vaccine, the more important truth and trust are going to be -- Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips is a CNN medical analyst and chief clinical officer for the Providence Health System. she joins us now from Seattle in Washington.
Doctor, thanks so much for doing so.
I'm curious what goes through your mind when you hear the president accuse the FDA of playing politics and that he might overrule them when it comes to their stricter guidelines for a vaccine approval?
DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, honestly, what goes through my mind is could this get any worse? We don't need to undermine our institutions that actually do a really good job at looking at data and deciding what's safe. And it helped us get this far in the pandemic.
[00:25:00]
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: What we need to do is really support the scientists and the individual that have dedicated their lives to making sure medicines are safe and effective. Let's support them, not undermine them.
HOLMES: You actually tweeted out a few days ago and I wanted to just read it out. You said "The goal isn't to have a COVID-19 vaccine before the election, it is to have a vaccine when it's proven to be safe and effective."
Are you worried, when you listen to the president that that is not how things are going?
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: I do. I want to know that our leaders are here to protect us as Americans, right? That they are there to ensure that we are pursuing life, liberty and pursuit of happiness and the common good for all.
And that means that we are putting the need to have science go ahead of the election and it doesn't feel to me like that's what we're doing at the moment. Let's make sure that the vaccine is safe and effective and let the timing be what it is. Not worry about November 4th.
HOLMES: Yes. I guess when you got the president of the United States saying that the FDA is being political. I mean this is the body Americans that people know. This is the body Americans trust to protect them. What if the White House does push a vaccine past the FDA?
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Well, fortunately, in the couple times where it felt like there was political pressure, the FDA was able to raise its head and say, no, no, no, we are going to actually walk this back a little bit. And so, I hope that the power of the scientists and the people who have made the FDA respected for all these years is strong enough to resist that political pressure. So, that is my hope.
HOLMES: When it comes to the public -- I mean, there was new polling out over the last week showing that 51 percent of people would get the vaccine down from 72 percent. I mean just speak to the growing public skepticism, what can be done, if anything, to convince the public that the vaccine, a vaccine, is safe? I mean even if one is genuinely safe, it doesn't matter if people don't trust it.
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: So, you are speaking exactly to why, in that original pandemic playbook they got thrown out and, you know we started from scratch was rule number one is ensure that you reliably, consistently tell the truth, leading with science and bringing the public along on the work, right? You don't over promise and under deliver. You don't miraculously say things are going to go away. Instead, you say, this is what reality is and these are the many miraculous things we can do to help intervene and stop the spread and the contagion from getting out of control. And so, instead of doing that, by promising miracle cures too soon, we politicized the process and that's what happened now. And that's what's undermining the trust in our institutions versus we know the American public can handle the truth.
If we explain the science, they understand the science. And they go along on this journey with us because we are moving so fast to create a vaccine. It's blazing fast.
But if we don't have the trust of the public, that blazing fast vaccine is going to sit on a shelf and be useless.
HOLMES: That's the thing, I mean in the U.S. in particular, but elsewhere around the world. There is already a sizeable anti vaccine movement regardless of coronavirus. I mean -- and this president once raised alleged links between autism and vaccines.
But then you throw out concerns that this process is being rushed, perhaps safety protocols might be short circuited. Do you worry not just about this vaccine, that not enough people will take it, but the vaccine trust in general for other things?
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: It's trust across the board. It's trust in science, it's trust in our government, it's trust in our institutions. It is being eroded. It's being eroded by misinformation and by campaigns against, you know, basically fundamental truths.
And so, I hope that through honesty, transparency, consistency and being forthright with the public we can actually start repairing some of what's broken.
HOLMES: There has been damage done.
Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips, always a pleasure. Thank you.
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: We will take a quick break. When we come back, the weather in the U.S. starting to cool down, which has experts warning of a second wave of coronavirus. Why they think it could be even deadlier than the first. That's not even over yet. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company.
[00:32:03]
Back now to our top story. That is, of course, mass demonstrations right across the U.S. Protesters demanding justice after a grand jury ruled no officers would be charged directly with Breonna Taylor's death.
Now, these pictures coming to you from Los Angeles. Violence did break out in Louisville, Kentucky, where Taylor was shot and killed by police in her apartment during a drug raid back in March. Police say two officers have been shot in these protests, both taken to the hospital, and we're told a suspect is in custody.
This is Louisville a little bit earlier. The grand jury in that city charged one officer with wanton endangerment. That was for blindly firing shots that went into an apartment next to Taylor's, nothing to do with Taylor's death.
The Kentucky attorney general says the investigation found two of the officers' actions were justified.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL CAMERON, KENTUCKY ATTORNEY GENERAL: According to Kentucky law, the use of force by Mattingly and Cosgrove was justified to protect themselves. This justification bars us from pursuing criminal charges in Miss Breonna Taylor's death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: The family's attorney called the decision outrageous and offensive. The family isn't alone in that, backlash erupting right across social media, basketball star LeBron James tweeting this, quote, "The most DISRESPECTED person on earth is THE BLACK WOMAN! I promise you I'll do my best to change this as much as I can and even more!!"
James has long been outspoken about Taylor's case, saying earlier he was devastated by Wednesday's news.
And George Clooney, a native of Kentucky, also slamming the grand jury's decision, telling CNN, "I know the community. I was taught in the schools and churches of Kentucky what is right and what is wrong. I am ashamed of this decision."
Now, Canada's prime minister says a second wave of the virus is already underway across most of the country. Justin Trudeau saying Canadians probably won't be gathering for their Thanksgiving next month, but they still have a shot at Christmas if they can get all these new infections back under control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We are on the brink of a fall that could be much worse than the spring. I know this isn't the news that any of us wanted to hear, and we can't change today's numbers or even tomorrow's. Those were already decided by what we did or didn't do two weeks ago. But what we can change is where we are in October and into the winter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Health authorities say infections have nearly tripled over the last five weeks. Canada has about 150,000 confirmed cases, more than 9,000 deaths.
[00:35:05]]
And the U.S. now bracing for a likely second wave of infections, even though they're still struggling with the first wave. Experts are even more worried and say that it could be far more deadly this time around.
CNN's Brian Todd explains why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The flu shot rush for the fall is on, millions of Americans trying to bolster their protection from influenza and avoid getting coronavirus as we receive new warnings about a cold-weather surge of COVID cases.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We are entering into a risk period, and we've got to act accordingly as we enter into that risk period.
TODD: The approach of fall and winter has renowned experts warning of a second, wave which could turn out worse than the first and get the U.S. possibly to previously unthinkable death tolls by year's end.
DR. JEANNE MARRAZZO, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, UAB SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Some modeling out more recently suggests that by the end of the year, we could actually be close to 300,000, and I think that's not at all unfathomable, given the progression of this pandemic.
TODD: A respected model from the University of Washington recently projected possibly 378,000 deaths in the U.S. by the end of the year.
October was the deadliest month during the 1918 flu pandemic. Experts say these viruses can take off simply when the air gets colder and thinner.
DR. COLLEEN KRAFT, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Whenever there's -- the air is dry, then those particles can kind of -- the wet particles that come from, like, a cough or a sneeze can kind of linger about a little easier, rather than a humid day where they might just fall directly to the ground or be in a sort of a heavier atmosphere.
TODD: Another dangerous factor, experts say, fewer of us will have that protection from being spaced apart outside during the winter.
DR. DAN BAROUCH, BETH ISRAEL DEACONESS MEDICAL CENTER: People spend more times indoors in more crowded settings, so it facilitates person- to-person transmission. Transmission through droplets or through aerosols intrinsically is more efficient in an indoor setting, particularly in a crowded indoor setting.
Schools getting back in session. Those which aren't sticking to remote learning also present a danger, experts say, as children in close quarters start to get those runny noses, spread virus between each other, then possibly carry it home to their parents or grandparents.
According to CNN's estimate, college campuses in the U.S. have experienced collectively nearly 60,000 cases. Experts are also worried about the double whammy of the arriving flu season, overlapping with coronavirus, as daily deaths and overall cases continue to rise in more than 20 states.
KRAFT: I'm absolutely worried about hospitals being overwhelmed, because also, if we have a flu season and a COVID surge at the same time, you know, those are going to go together, right? So if the behaviors that prevent flu also prevent COVID, and we're not doing the behaviors to prevent COVID, that means we will have both of the viruses. It's really sort of a two for one.
TODD (on camera): But the experts we spoke to stress this fall and winter don't have to be so dire, that there is reason for optimism. They say if more people take those simple effective measures of wearing masks and distancing, these could actually be milder seasons coming up.
Another reason for optimism? This virus is not going to take us by surprise this fall and winter. We know how to combat it, and there are more potential treatments now.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Just ahead here on the program, seeing through the eyes of migrants stuck in Europe's biggest camp. It is a powerful exhibit using cutting-edge technology. Our Phil Black will walk us through it ahead of Thursday's launch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The camp is gone, but it's still possible to get a sense of that experience, of how these people were forced to live. This exhibit in London is like a time machine that puts you back among them. Back in the crowded, filthy conditions of Moria.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:41:00]
HOLMES: The Moria migrant camp in Greece was once the largest refugee camp in Europe. Today, it is a pile of ashes.
CNN went there before the fire, however. Through an immersive film experience set to launch in London on Thursday, Phil Black shows us what the camp was like back then and the horrifying conditions those migrants are living in now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLACK (voice-over): One night of fire and panic left this blackened mark on Lesbos. The Moria migrant camp is gone.
Some of the world's most desperate people now have even less.
When we visited the camp earlier this year, we saw it as it was.
(on camera): Humanitarian groups say you've got to move people out of here onto the mainland somewhere to relieve the pressure here on Lesbos.
(voice-over): A sprawling slum. Population more than 18,000.
We met families with little food, water, sanitation, and no reason to hope.
(on camera): Do you know how old? Days, weeks?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifteen.
BLACK: Fifteen days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifteen days.
BLACK: Boy or girl?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boy.
BLACK: What is his name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amid (ph).
BLACK: Walking through the Moria refugee camp here on Lesbos is a truly confronting experience. Perhaps the most surprising thing is simply the scale of it.
The camp is gone, but it's still possible to get a sense of that experience, of how these people were forced to live. This exhibit in London is like a time machine. It puts you back among them. Back in the crowded, filthy conditions of Moria.
(voice-over): The display, a collaboration with CNN, is part of the Imperial War Museum's refugee season. It surrounds you with images and noise from the camp. It's powerful and immersive. A tool designed for walking in the shoes of people whose stories are often misunderstood.
That human connection is also the goal of the broader exhibition here, which charts 100 years of people fleeing their homes because of war.
SIMON OFFORD, CURATOR, IMPERIAL WAR MUSEUMS: So we wanted to show that refugees are not just born refugees. They start off as normal people with everyday lives, and they are forced to make these horrible, horrible decisions.
BLACK: One display occupies the whole floor of the museum's famous atrium. A history of bombs, by Chinese artist Ai Weiwei, explores the terrifying hardware that often drives people to leave their homes.
AI WEIWEI, ARTIST: Many refugees told me -- I still remember this: "The bomb comes down like rain." So that makes them think, this is unbelievable. Those bombs can come down like rain. And that made a deep impression on my mind.
BLACK: Back on Lesbos, those who lived on Moria before the fire must now sleep where they can. A London museum exhibition isn't going to change their lives, but it might help others understand how they got there.
Phil Black, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company, spending part of your day with me. There will be more news for me at the top of the hour. Meanwhile, WORLD SPORT after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:46:14]
(WORLD SPORT)
[00:58:35]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
