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Trump Says He May Overrule FDA on Vaccine Guidelines; U.S. CDC Chief Says Public Can Trust Agency's Guidance; Dr. Fauci Accuses Senator Paul of Misconstruing Facts; New Restrictions in French City of Marseille; U.K. Considers Trials That Expose Volunteers to COVID- 19; Israel Moves to Tighten Lockdown Even Further; Ginsburg's Clerks Line Steps of Court in Tribute. Aired 4:30-5a ET
Aired September 24, 2020 - 04:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[04:30:00]
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And ultimately the White House has to approve it.
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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Erica Hill has the latest on the coronavirus outbreak in the U.S.
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ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Science and politics in the hot seat.
SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D-WA): Dr. Redfield how is it a document published on CDC's website was not drafted by CDC's scientists nor underwent the agency's strict scientific review process?
DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, U.S. CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: Senator, the original testing guidance of August 26 had a full engagement of individuals of CDC.
HILL: The head of the CDC pushing back on suggestions the agency is not in control amid shifting guidance on testing and the virus itself.
MURRAY: If I want the best guidance on the latest science so I can protect myself and my family can I trust CDC's website to give me that information?
REDFIELD: Yes, we are committed to data and science and that will be the grounding of how we make these recommendations.
HILL: That with the FDA also promising politics won't interfere with the vaccine.
DR. STEPHEN HAHN, COMMISSIONER, U.S. FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: Science will guide our decisions. FDA will not permit any pressure from anyone to change that.
DR. LEANA WEN, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: I hear the right words but I want to see the appropriate actions that follow.
HILL: 22 states seeing a rise in new cases over the past seven days, almost the entire Western half of the country including former hot spots like Texas and Arizona.
DR. JEANNE MARRAZZO, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: The numbers are the numbers you can argue with them and they are not going in the right direction.
HILL: Minnesota and Wisconsin reporting sharp spikes over the past week. Governor Tony Evers tweeting, this is a new and dangerous phase of the pandemic, extending the mask mandate through late November.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people are OK with it, some people that don't even believe in COVID.
HILL: The virus is real so is the science that masks work.
DR. JEROME ADAMS, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: I've got Democrats who want me to condemn people who are out of the presidential rally. I've got Republicans who want me to condemn people who are going to vigils. And at the end of the day, the virus doesn't care about your politics. So what I would say to everyone, politics aside, wear a mask.
HILL: Preliminary findings from the CDC show more than 90 percent of the country is still susceptible to the virus. And while vaccine trials are moving forward, Johnson and Johnson's single dose vaccine just moved into phase 3. Experts stress a vaccine will not immediately end the pandemic.
DR. JAMES HAMBLIN, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Even if there is a vaccine that becomes available to some people say in January which would be wonderful if everything goes extremely well, that is not going to change the game.
HILL (on camera): The head of the World Health Organization calling on all countries who put forth a national plan to offer its sky in space information and to also combat disinformation. Noting, now more than ever the truth matters.
In New York, I'm Erica Hill, CNN.
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CHURCH: Well, during a Senate hearing on Wednesday a Republican who actually contracted the virus challenged the need for restrictions aimed at curbing its spread. Rand Paul basically said herd immunity is the way to go. Suggesting that's how New Yorkers contain the pandemic. But the country's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, defended the U.S. response saying shutting down was the only way to stop the explosion of infection. Here's part of their testy exchange.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): They're no longer having the pandemic because they have enough immunity in New York City to actually stop it.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I challenge that.
PAUL: I'm afraid --
FAUCI: Please, sir, I would like to be able to do this because this happens with Senator Rand all the time. You are not listening to what the director of the CDC said, that in New York, it's about 22 percent, if you believe 22 percent is herd immunity, I believe you're alone in that.
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CHURCH: Well, Dr. Deborah Birx wants a prominent role in coordinating the White House response to the pandemic, but lately she has been largely absent from the White House briefings. And CNN has learned she's privately questioning whether she can stay on. Sources tell CNN she's confessed to aides and friends that she's distressed and feels side lined. She says she views the addition of Dr. Scott Atlas who the White House task force as an unhealthy influence on President Trump by giving him misleading information. Atlas denies there's any bad blood between him and Birx and the White House insists Birx remains an integral player on the task force.
So, let's talk now with Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is a CNN medical analyst and professor of medicine at George Washington University. Thank you, doctor, for being with us.
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: My pleasure.
[04:35:00]
CHURCH: So, President Trump is now saying he may overrule the FDA on approval of a COVID-19 vaccine, accusing the FDA of playing politics by insisting on stricter guidelines that what would result in delaying approval. What is your reaction to that?
REINER: It would be unprecedented and unacceptable. I think if the president would exert authority over the FDA, and essentially overrule the career scientists, physicians and professionals at the FDA, I think there would be, essentially, an uprising amongst the physicians and public health officials in the United States. I think most physicians would then assume the vaccine was suspect and would not recommend its administration to patients.
We are at a critical point in terms of public confidence in the vaccine. Most of us have spent our careers reinforcing the notion that vaccines are safe and necessary and important, and that's how we've gotten an average lifespan in this country to 80 years.
But this kind of action, unilateral action by the White House would do great damage to vaccine science and the confidence of the public in this, and it is completely unacceptable. The President needs to let the FDA do their work.
CHURCH: And of course, you have to wonder how many people would be willing to let someone stick that in their arm if those are the circumstances.
REINER: Right.
CHURCH: So, doctor, at a Senate hearing on Wednesday, Dr. Anthony Fauci challenged Senator Rand Paul on his baseless suggestion that New York is only doing while now because it has achieved herd immunity. What was your reaction to that fiery exchange, and what does it reveal to you?
REINER: Well, it revealed to me that one person in that conversation that they were talking about, and that person wasn't Rand Paul. The Senator suggested that, perhaps, the reason why New York has a COVID positivity rate of less than 1 percent now has to do with, perhaps, they've already achieved herd immunity, and he completely misstated the facts and Dr. Fauci was having none of that.
If, perhaps, 20 percent of the New York State or New York City population has been exposed to the virus, that's far below what any scientists believes is close to necessary for herd immunity, and that's about where people think the virus has been in New York maybe about 20 percent of people have been exposed to it.
CHURCH: And Dr. Reiner, we are also learning that Dr. Deborah Birx is apparently distressed about her diminished role in the White House Coronavirus Task Force and is questioning how long she can remain in that role. She believes Trump's new controversial medical adviser Dr. Atlas who is not an epidemiologist is feeding the President false information about masks and other things. So, what is your reaction to that development?
REINER: I think Dr. Birx is rightfully distraught about her situation here, she's been marginalized because I think at some point her telling the truth, particularly when she stated during the summer that the pandemic was raging in parts of the United States angered the White House and they marginalized her.
So, they brought in Scott Atlas who is a radiologist at Stanford who has stated that the science of mask is uncertain. He's doubted that children can transmit the virus efficiently, and he has been a proponent of herd immunity, despite the fact that he has tried to walk that back.
He testified before a Senate committee in May about heard immunity. He's been interviewed on Fox News about that, and that's where he did his interview for his job on Fox News. He told the President via that outlet what the President wanted to hear and the President hired him.
CHURCH: Dr. Jonathan Reiner, always good to get your medical advice. Many thanks.
REINER: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. CHURCH: And still ahead, cases spike on both sides of the Atlantic, from North America to Europe. Coronavirus case numbers are stubbornly on the rise again. And we will bring you the latest worrisome developments.
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CHURCH: Well, bars and restaurants in the French city of Marseille will close for at least two weeks in a bid to bring coronavirus under control. Marseille is now considered a maximum alert zone. That is the highest risk classification in France. The country's health minister says another lockdown is still on the table if things get worse.
Meantime, in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau isn't just warning of a second wave of the virus, he says it's already arrived. Infections in Canada have almost tripled during the past five weeks and Trudeau says the autumn could be very tough.
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JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We're on the brink of the fall, it could be much worse than the spring. I know this isn't the news that any of us wanted to hear, and we can't change today's numbers or even tomorrows. Those were already decided by what we did or didn't do two weeks ago. But what we can change is where we are in October and into the winter.
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CHURCH: Well, the number of new coronavirus cases keeps rising in the U.K., and the government is taking action. Just hours ago it launched a contact tracing app designed to help control the spread of the coronavirus. And is also considering very controversial clinical trials in which volunteers would be deliberately exposed to the virus.
The let's get more on this from CNN's Cyril Vanier. He joins us live from London. Good to see you, Cyril. So let's talk about those numbers and of course, this new contact tracing app. How is that going to work exactly?
CYRIL VANIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the numbers, first, Rosemary, we're talking about more than 6,000 people who are infected. That's the number that was announced yesterday. And that is the highest it's been since mid-May. That number multiplied by four or five if you look at just the numbers at the beginning of the month and that is telling you that the virus -- that the rate of increase of the infection is exponential at the moment. With British authorities saying that if it continues, it is doubling every seven to eight days. If that continues at this rate, they could have tens of thousands of people potentially infected every day by the middle of next month.
[04:45:00]
And so, the British government knows that it is numbers that are not only trending in the wrong direction, they're trending in the wrong direction very fast. And that is why they have announced new measures this week.
There is some debate as to whether those measures will be sufficient to slow the spread of the virus. They have called on people who can, to work from home. They have closed pubs as of 10 p.m. Imposed a curfew there so that people aren't mingling and standing up in groups of more than six.
And look, one of the government's own scientists who works on the government advisory board, scientific board, has said that this will not be enough to slow the spread of the virus, Rosemary. So we're going to be looking at those numbers very carefully in the coming days and weeks and see whether the government's new measures are managing to curb that trend.
CHURCH: Yes, and of course that app, how is that going to work exactly?
VANIER: So the government has unveiled a new app, and its blue tooth enabled. Meaning that when phones -- the way it works is you are supposed to declare yourself sick if you test positive for coronavirus and that will then inform other phones that have been in contact with your phone at less than a certain distance that those people are now contact cases and should get tested and potentially self-isolate until they get the result of the test.
The entire idea of that, Rosemary, is to break those chains of contamination. Now it has to be said, for this app to work, a large part of the population would have to download it and use the system. Rosemary, I just spent several months in France covering coronavirus there. A similar app was unveiled a couple of months ago. A tiny, tiny portion of the population actually used it. Therefore, the app and the entire logic and system around it failed.
CHURCH: We've all got to be involved to make it work. I'm not sure it would work in America here either. So, Cyril Vanier joining us live from London. Many thanks.
So, Israel already is in the midst of a second general coronavirus lockdown. Now the country is moving to tighten up its restrictions even further. Case numbers there are still on the rise and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu now says a full closure will be necessary for the next two weeks.
And CNN's Oren Liebermann is in Jerusalem for us. So how is this going to work? What will it mean in terms of people getting out, getting groceries, and other needs they'll have?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So groceries, pharmacies, essential services, those will remain open as they did in the first general lockdown back in April. But it's just about everything else that will either close or will be severely restricted.
A lot of that had been open when the second lockdown was first announced about a week and a half ago. And that's why critics rushed to point out, look, this second general lockdown as too many exceptions, too many loopholes and too many ways out who be effective. And it seems to be that that combined with the increasing numbers of coronavirus cases throughout the country, led Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the coronavirus cabinet to impose this much stricter set of restrictions at least for the next two weeks.
And that includes the closure of many more public and private sector workplaces. They are considering closing the airport as well, the outgoing flights. That decision will be made later on today. They're limiting public transportation. A lot of the steps we saw in April and then some. Limitations on protests. Limitations on prayer. Outdoor groups of 20 people. You have to stay within a kilometer of your house unless you have a reason or an exception go farther than that.
Again, all of this is a response to the rising coronavirus cases. According to the ministry of health there were 6,808 new cases yesterday. Just one day after a record 6,861. So the numbers continue to surge putting pressure on the entire health system. And that is why Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he have to. The country has to impose a two-week lockdown now. And then another two-week lockdown with what he hopes will be fewer restrictions. But as of right now he says what this is all contingent upon is a reduction in the infection rate which remains incredibly high right now -- Rosemary.
CHURCH: All right, Oren Liebermann joining us live from Jerusalem. Many thanks.
Well, the European Union is rethinking its relationship with Belarus following the swearing on Wednesday of Alexander Lukashenko to a new term as president. The EU's high representative for foreign affairs says Lukashenko's re-election was based on false results and that his inauguration lacks legitimacy. That sentiment was echoed Wednesday by the U.S. State Department. It says the U.S. does not consider Lukashenko to be the legitimate leader of Belarus and that last month election was neither free nor fair.
And still to come, scenes you won't be seeing this New Year's Eve as Times Square organizers say their event will be a virtual celebration.
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CHURCH: Well, a rough day for the Asian equities markets after Wall Street's sharp selloff on Wednesday. Investors are anxious about a number of issues, including rising numbers of coronavirus infectious, slowing economic recovery and U.S. election uncertainty. And you also can see here the U.S. futures markets for Thursday and following Asia's lead, they are also in the red. Markets in Europe are suffering a similar fate, down to three-month lows this morning.
And amid all the political wrangling in the U.S., tributes are being paid to the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg whose body is lying in repose outside the Supreme Court. President Trump will visit today to pay his respects. On Wednesday, a powerful scene on the building steps as rows of Ginsberg's current and former clerks awaited her casket. Later, former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State
Hillary Clinton visited. Bill Clinton nominated Ginsberg to the court back in 1993. Inside her fellow justices reflected on her legacy.
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JOHN ROBERTS, CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT: Her voice in court and in our conference room, went soft, but when she spoke, people listened. Tough, brave, a fighter, a winner but also thoughtful. Careful. Compassionate. Honest. She will live on in what she did to improve the law and the lives of all of us. And yet, still, Ruth is gone, and we grieve.
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CHURCH: Thousands of members of the public streamed past her casket Wednesday. It will remain at the court today. On Friday Ginsberg will become the first woman to lie in state at the U.S. capitol.
President Trump is expected to announce Ginsberg's replacement on Saturday.
And one of the world's top opera companies has canceled its entire 2020-2021 season due to COVID concerns. New York's Metropolitan Opera says it took the advice of health officials and decided it's too dangerous for hundreds of artists to rehearse and perform together until a vaccine is available. The Met says it will reopen a year from now, next September, with a full slate of shows.
And it seems like a very, very long time ago but this is how we rang in the New Year last time at Times Square.
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CROWD: 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 1!
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CHURCH: Well, savor that memory. Like so much right now, coronavirus is playing havoc with this year's plans. So organizers in New York are planning on a virtual ball drop. They say the festivities will take place visually, virtually and safely.
Thank you so much for being with us. "EARLY START" is next. I'm Rosemary Church.
