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Crump Says, Release the Transcripts of Grand Jury Testimony; Trump Makes Pitch to Latinos in Florida, Black Voters in Georgia; 23 States Report Uptick in New Cases, 16 Hold Steady, 11 Trending Down. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired September 25, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: To the grand jury proceeding, because they say they want to see exactly what he did, and I think more importantly what he didn't do in presenting that case.

[11:30:06]

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, John. It's a very significant thing. So let's just back up just a minute. Why is then this major concern? There's a concern with regard to accountability and transparency. We've often heard, John, that a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. Well, if that's true, what happened here?

And so what we have to know and understand briefly is the grand jury process. A grand jury is not there to determine proof of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. A grand jury is not there to make a unanimous decision, right, a verdict. They are there, simply, very low standard, to determine whether there is reason to believe that a crime was committed and the subjects that are being investigated by the grand jury committed them. Why is that significant? Because that's a very low bar.

What's the other piece? The other piece is that grand juries are generally run, right, widely run by prosecutors. Whatever they get, they give out. What do I mean? The prosecutors present evidence to that grand jury. Generally, prosecutors advise and guide a grand jury. Generally, the information that the prosecutors provide leads to the indictment that the prosecutors want.

And so I think what the family is asking is, what specific evidence and information did you give that grand jury to evaluate? Did you cherry-pick evidence? Did you conceal evidence? What specifically did you do to allow them to vote on charges or did you not do your job? So I think the release of this transcript will go a long way to satisfying the community that the attorney general presented everything, did not sugar coat things and ultimately sought justice for Breonna Taylor. That's the issue that the community is concerned about.

KING: And, Joey, stay with us. I want to get to the ground in Louisville, where CNN Correspondent Brynn Gingras has been there throughout the last several remarkable and emotional days. Listening to that, Brynn, you just said this collision of emotion. There is anger, the family, the civil rights activists, community feeling justice was not done here. Justice was, in fact, denied, is their view. You have the political anger at Daniel Cameron and you the tension in the streets where people are urging people, come and protest or if you don't want to protest, come and listen to the protests. It is a remarkable moment there.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really is. And piggybacking off of what Joey said to well, the movement has been, hashtag, say her name. And they want to know, was her name even mentioned by Daniel Cameron in those grand jury proceedings. That's where all the anger is coming from. They just want to see her name in the transcripts.

So that's what they are basically have been fighting for ever since Daniel Cameron went before the public, giving the result of those grand jury proceedings, that single indictment against the officer. And they just want continue saying her name and to continue having justice, saying in this news conference, this just confirms there are two different Americas, two different criminal justice system, one for white people and one for black people.

And what's really striking to me here, John, is they mentioned how all of these people have showed up. We know that the father of Jacob Blake -- we know that Jacob Blake's father, Jacob Blake Sr. is here by Tamika Palmer's side. We know that she has received also text messages from the mothers of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, people who have been killed at the hands of police in the past.

And it sort of reminds me of all the times I've covered mass shootings and gone to scenes and met families who also have experienced those tragedies there to support those families going through the current tragedy. It's this horrible family that's sort of formed out of these tragedies. And we're seeing that now, these families coming together and not accepting what has happened over the years and demanding change.

And that's what we're seeing. All of these people screaming, saying, we've got your back, we're going to continue fighting for it. We're going to continue marching, as they have for several months here in Louisville. And there's a lot of anger, there's a lot emotion, but there's a lot of resilience, as well, John.

KING: A lot of resilience is a great way to put it, Brynn Gingras.

And so, Joey, back to you, as we watch this, again, the collision of emotion, collision of the calendar too in the statement Breonna Taylor's mother talking about systemic racism against black Americans, against black women in particular. She said the attorney general of Kentucky, in her view, had failed to mend 400 years of oppression.

There is the anger. There is also a process, as the members of the family and their legal team demand the release of these transcripts. Grand juries are traditionally done in secret, but there are exceptions to every rule, as one of the attorneys noted there. Some of the testimony of Breonna Taylor's boyfriend was released in a related but separate case to this. What is the process? Are there ways to force or to at least try to get a court to force the attorney general if he refuses to release these transcripts to make them public?

[11:35:00]

JACKSON: Yes, without question. So here is the issue. Generally, jury transcripts, we know, were kept and they're secretive for a variety of reasons, right? However, you want to ensure the integrity of that process. One of the best ways you can ensure the integrity of the process is to see whether there were any abnormalities, to see whether or not there were any issues that were presented or lack of issues that were presented to make the grand jury process defective.

And so, yes, you can have court proceedings wherein you can get these transcripts, to the extent that the attorney general won't release them to the public on his own or by consent. But in the event that you did your job, John, the issue would be, what is the problem? Release the transcript to the public.

There is concern throughout this country that a short circuiting of the process, there's a short circuiting of the system, there's a system that doesn't work for everyone. So if you want to show that you presented all the evidence, you presented the information, you attempted to get justice, it was about Breonna Taylor, you spoke to the issues of recklessness and conduct with regard to the officers, why not let everyone know it and why are we speaking about going to court to potentially force the transcripts to be released when you, Mr. Attorney General, can do it on your own?

KING: It's a remarkable moment. Joey Jackson, I appreciate your insights there. A remarkable moment in so many ways, the emotions of the family, the persistence, the resilience of the demonstrators and the protesters and now the demands on the attorney general viewed as a rising Republican star in the state of Kentucky. We will see how this one plays out. Joey, thank you so much for your important insights.

When we come back, the president again peddling baseless, reckless claims about voter fraud.

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[11:40:00]

KING: Busy day on the road, the campaign trail today for the president. He'll make a campaign pitch to Latinos in Miami and focus on black empowerment during a stop in Atlanta just 39 days now from the November vote, a vote the president says will be a, quote, big scam.

The president repeatedly this week refusing to commit to leaving office if he loses in November. You won't have a transfer, those the words of the president of the United States, insisting any election he loses must be rigged.

This morning, this tweet spelling out his reasoning, complaints of fraud, quote, all over the place in Massachusetts and Trump votes, he says, thrown out in Pennsylvania.

Well, the FBI director appointed by this president, the FBI director testifying Thursday, his bureau takes all election threats seriously, but he says, there is no evidence of massive scale voter fraud. Meaning, from the FBI director directly, zero evidence to support what the president says every day.

The White House chief of staff today taking issue with the facts and with the FBI director.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: With all due respect to Director Wray, he has a hard time finding emails in his own FBI, let alone of figuring out whether there is any kind of voter fraud.

Perhaps he needs to get involved on the ground and he would change his testimony on Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's get straight to the White House and John Harwood. And, John, borrow a line from Ronald Reagan, here we go again. The president and his own team attacking their own people for telling the truth.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. The truth is not his friend on FBI -- on election fraud. That's what Chris Wray testified. That's what Ben Ginsburg, longtime Republican leading election lawyer that we've known for many, many years has said. We have tried for decades to find voter fraud, because we were concerned about it. We have not found it.

And so justice -- the polls are not the president's friend. He's losing to Joe Biden in national surveys, in key battleground states. He's trying to discredit what's actually happening and Mark Meadows is his assistant in doing that, but it doesn't change the reality, the widespread voter fraud simply doesn't exist and they're putting the fog machine in overdrive, but it's not correct.

KING: As you know, there's a pattern of this throughout the Trump presidency, when people on his team, appointed by him says things he doesn't like, he tends to turn on them with his anger and his frustration, and there with his chief of staff saying things that simply aren't true.

We also have some new reporting that the president is increasingly frustrated with the CDC director, Dr. Robert Redfield, who, of course, before Congress just last week, was holding up his mask and saying, this is incredibly powerful tool.

Now, the CDC has also had some mistakes, missteps on its website, but what's the source of the president's anger here?

HARWOOD: The source of the president's anger is that the CDC is a professional operation dedicated to bringing scientific reality to the American public. That's what Robert Redfield did when he talked about the importance of mask-wearing. That's what FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn did while saying, we're going to have a proper scientific vetting process of vaccines.

These things are inconvenient for the president because he wants to campaign as somebody who has succeeded against the coronavirus, even though we are at 40,000 cases a day, heading into difficult months in the fall, roughly a thousand deaths per day.

The truth is inconvenient for the president on the election, on election fraud and on the status of the coronavirus.

And I would say that, yes, the president is losing patience in the CDC. That feeling is mutual. The president sent a P.R. guy to interfere with the product of the CDC, Michael Caputo as the head of HHS. So in addition to the president questioning what they were doing internally, Michael Caputo was saying, well, there's a deep state at the CDC. That's what the administration is all about these days, trying to obscure the truth.

[11:45:02]

KING: Trying to obscure the truth, trying to obscure the numbers. And we'll get to the numbers a little bit later. The numbers tell us we are heading in the wrong direction right now when it comes to COVID- 19. John Harwood, I'm grateful for the live reporting from the White House.

Let's continue the conversation. Margaret Talev of Axios joins us and Alex Burns of The New York Times.

Margaret, I want to start with you, because this is a pattern in the Trump administration, but it's especially important now because we are 39 days from an election. The president is trying to plant the seeds, if I lose, therefore, it's rigged, therefore, I will challenge it in the courts, and therefore I must get my new Supreme Court justice on there, so I have a 6-3 majority when all of that plays out. It's pretty plane and the president is actually pretty transparent about it.

This is the FBI director telling Congress yesterday. We are always looking. Yes, sometimes we see small examples of fraud, but --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR, FBI: Now, we have not seen, historically, any kind of coordinated, national voter fraud effort in a major election, whether it's by mail or otherwise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, that's the guy who runs the FBI. The president of the United States though wants you to believe something else. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We have to be very careful with the ballots. The ballots, that's a whole big scam.

We want to make sure that the election is honest and I'm not sure that it can be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It can be if he would stop interfering in it. But this is headed to a path where, please tell me I am wrong, the president is planting the seeds to challenge the election, because if he loses, it must be rigged.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: John, I think that's right. And the question is, what else is going on here? Is this just about a post-election strategy, or is some of this about a pre-election strategy?

A lot of Democrats who I talked to are concerned that the president is kind of trying to play a game where he wins either way, because if you sow the seeds of a chaos theory now and we talk about it enough and there's the amplification of this idea that whether you vote or not, it's going to be challenged, it's not going to count, that it may just depress turnout on the Democratic side, while Republicans will be riled up about -- not all Republicans, but the president's base, riled up about the Supreme Court excitement and all this other stuff and then turn out and vote.

And so there are two questions to look at here. But the first one is what happens between now and November 3rd. And that's why this is a little bit more of a complex strategy. I think when you see McConnell, Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney, the kind of range of the Republican establishment in the Senate put a line in the sand and say, no, there's going to be a peaceful transfer of power, that's important. But there is a pre-election strategy to this method as well.

KING: And that's a very important point, Alex, the pre-election strategy. And you have seen Democrats, remember, their convention every night, plan to vote, make a plan to vote, encouraging early voting, encouraging mail-in voting at the convention.

Now you do see a shift, more and more Democrats say, you know what, if you can, go out and vote early in person. Go out so you can be sure your ballot gets to its final destination, whether that's a question about the president's strategy or legal challenges or the Postal Service.

Joining that effort yesterday, I thought it was interesting, was Bernie Sanders. We have not heard a Bernie Sanders event in quite some time. He had an event. He had a planned speech in which he wanted to say, Democrats, get out and vote, and he attacked the president. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): That is not his choice. That's for the American people to determine. In the United States, the president does not determine who can or cannot vote and what ballots will be counted. That may be what his friend, Putin, does in Russia. It may be what is done in other authoritarian countries, but it is not and it will not be done in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I thought it was significant that Senator Sanders thought it was time for him to step up. He has a great following out there. There's always the question will they be for the more centrist Joe Biden. Senator Sanders laying it down saying, get out there, vote, find a way.

ALEX BURNS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, he sure is. And, John, I do think this is one of the opportunities that Democrats think that they have in the upcoming Supreme Court fight, that it is a battle that pushes to the center of the national conversation. Not all of this stuff about President Trump's daily conduct, that a lot of voters at this point, frankly, sort of tune out but a whole suite of issues related to civil rights, women's rights, gay rights that really do matter to the younger voters who are more connected to a liberal agenda, writ large, than to Joe Biden, individually, as a candidate.

And I do think, sort of to Margaret's point, about the Democratic angst that the president may be sort of playing four-dimensional chess here. Every election that we have seen the president participate in, either as a candidate himself or as a leader of the Republican Party, he has done this exact thing, try to attack legitimacy of the election beforehand. And if he loses, question the legitimacy afterwards. We've talked about this before, John, but he questioned the legitimacy of the 2016 vote, which he won.

[11:50:02]

So I'm personally quite skeptical of the notion that this is some kind of secret sauce for him when it comes to revving the Republican base. In my experience, my conversations over the last couple days the folks who were demoralized and frustrated about this stuff are Republicans.

KING: You're right. It's standard operating procedure for him. He is right and everybody else is wrong. That's how he does operate.

Alex Burns, Margaret Talev, I'm grateful for the reporting and insights.

Up next for us, the CDC issues new projections for coronavirus deaths, nearly half the states right now seeing a rise in cases.

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KING: The president again saying yesterday, we have turned the corner when it comes to the coronavirus. Let's take a look at the numbers. They tell something very, very different.

Let's take a look at our trend map right now in the 50 states, 23 states, orange and red means you're heading in the wrong direction. Look at the western half, essentially, of the United States, 23 states trending up right now. 16 states, I'm sorry. That's the beige, most of it holding steady, 11 states trending down. Fewer cases now than a week ago, is what this map registers.

[11:55:02]

More cases if you're orange and red now than a week ago, fewer if you're in the green. That's a sad map as we look right now.

Here is the case curve and you see the line here. This is mainly you need to know is the trajectory, we are going back up again. Beginning of the summer surge, about 20,000 new infections a day, up to the peak f the summer surge, around 80,000 new infections a day. We started to come down, actually got below 40,000, got below 35,000 a little bit back up now averaging more than 40,000 new coronavirus infections a day in the United States. That is heading in the wrong direction.

Top five states yesterday, Texas, California and Florida, they have been at the top of this list quite some time. They're also among our most populist states. But look at this, as it moves to the Midwest right here, Wisconsin and Illinois, as we go through here. The total cases, you move through it here, we go starting back in April, 2.8, you're moving up, you're moving at 1 million, 6 million, about to hit 7 million cases here in the United States, about to hit 7 million cases in the United States. California leads that with 800,000 cases, incredibly when you look at that there.

The president on the road in three states, two of them, Georgia and Florida, holding steady at the moment, Virginia trending down at the moment. We just learned today the governor of Virginia and his wife have been diagnosed with the coronavirus.

More on the coronavirus ahead in our next hour. Also more on the remarkable history day at the Capitol, Ruth Bader Ginsburg as the nation says farewell lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda Statutory Hall, right there.

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