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Trump Laying Groundwork to Challenge Election Results; Interview With Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring; Interview With Miami Beach, Florida, Mayor Dan Gelber; U.S. Passes Seven Million Coronavirus Cases. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 25, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:21]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hi there, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining us this hour.

We are starting this hour with breaking news, another sobering milestone for this country. The United States just passed a total of seven million confirmed cases of the coronavirus. This, of course, is just days after we hit and passed 200,000 deaths in the country. Nearly 1,000 Americans were reported dead just yesterday from the virus.

We cannot forget the scope and scale of this. Despite this overwhelming whelming scale of this virus and despite fears that a second wave is on the way, Florida's Republican governor just made a big announcement, that he's lifting COVID restrictions in a big way in his state.

Let's get straight to CNN's Randi Kaye. She's in Florida with all these details.

Randi, what did the governor announce, and why does he think it is safe now?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He says that the threat has eased, Kate. I mean, he put it that simply. He thinks it's time to reopen pretty much all the businesses around the state.

So he's lifting all restrictions on bars and restaurants and businesses statewide immediately. That means that restaurants are now in phase three. The state is in phase three, so they can open to 100 percent capacity.

Here at this restaurant here behind me, this outside table is empty. People no longer have to sit outside right away. They can start sitting inside up to 100 percent capacity. He said that there may be a different approach here in South Florida, where we are in Doral, in Miami-Dade County, and Palm Beach County and Broward County, the three hardest-hit counties. But he hasn't actually laid out what that is. And he also said, if a restaurant doesn't want to open to 100 percent capacity, they have to provide justification.

So we will have to see how that goes, what that really means or will they in the end be forced to open to 100 percent capacity?

The other issue here, Kate, is the masks. The governor also says that around the state, counties and local municipalities can no longer fine people for not wearing a mask in public. Here in Miami-Dade, there is a massive order in place and several other counties in South Florida.

Those fines are now out the window. The governor says that is just not going to be allowed. He said, if it does get bad, that he believes the state can handle it. He believes there are enough hospital beds. He thinks the state is prepared.

And I do want to point out the numbers. While the governor is saying all of this today, we are seeing 700,000 cases of coronavirus here in the state of Florida, another 120 deaths today, 14,000 deaths are so in all.

So the state is certainly not out of the woods, although new infections have declined. But this was the governor's choice, once again, saying that he thinks it's time to reopen businesses. He was with the president of the United States last night in Jacksonville. Perhaps they had a conversation about this.

We know that the president is certainly in favor of something like this. And, today, the governor has come out and said the state of Florida is open for business -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: This is a really dynamic change that is going to be taking place in Florida. We can't understate that.

Randi, thank you so much for laying out the details. I really appreciate it.

Joining me right now is the mayor of Miami beach, Dan Gelber.

Mayor, thank you for jumping on.

What is your reaction to this executive order from the governor? What does it mean for Miami Beach?

DAN GELBER (D), MAYOR OF MIAMI BEACH, FLORIDA: Well, my county has had the second most number of COVID infections in the country. So we're a hot spot.

And the truth is, it's pretty obvious this was a political decision. It was clearly not intended to protect residents or even our economy. I think our governor has always tried to be as much like President Trump as possible. And I think he's trying to follow his game plan when it comes to dealing with the virus, which is to really just ignore mainstream science and mainstream doctors and to go his own way, I think to the great detriment of our residents. BOLDUAN: Look, the positivity rate is down from the high that we saw

in the state. But it was very high back in July, when you and I talked often about what was happening in your state.

But do you think -- you have been very even-keeled with your messaging and trying to work with the state throughout this, Mayor. I'm struck by how you're talking about this now. Do you really think the governor is putting -- putting people in Florida in dangerous?

GELBER: Listen, I got to tell you, we have got 14,000 deaths in the state.

And I tried very hard, you're correct, to work with everybody, because I think, in a time of crisis, the best thing to do is try to work together. But it's just gotten to the point of frustration.

Our contact tracing program is totally botched. And that's the governor's responsibility, not the locals. It's a state agency. Our reopening is totally botched.

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And through this entire time, he keeps telling people, that -- he surely sort of suggests there's no need to wear a mask, which, by the way, is the one way you can open up the economy without affecting the economy. You don't need a capacity limit when you're wearing a mask. It doesn't affect your curfew. Just wear it.

He refuses to have a mask mandate. And I think what he's about to do is to not even allow us to require people to wear masks where we have asked them. We -- my city's given out 1,000 fines. And a lot of those are from people who are traveling and traveling back to places they came from.

So we're protecting more than just our own community. We're protecting a lot of other communities. He's going to make it very difficult, and I -- for the life of me, I don't know why he has politicized this, but it's very obvious to me that he has.

BOLDUAN: Look, Mayor, I want to remind everybody that you were one of the first officials to act. You were one of the first cities to lock down. You were one of the first cities, if not the first city, to put a mask mandate in place.

These now -- we know from scientists, these are the basic ways and effective ways, in terms of the masks I'm talking about, for protecting each other in the midst of a pandemic that is nowhere near over.

For this executive order, the way it looks right now, it looks like he is completely taking this out of your hands. He's not only not saying the state's not going to order you to do anything. He's saying, the locals, you can't either. What are you going to do?

GELBER: Listen, I have no idea. I mean, we have been trying to work with our hospitality industry. We

love them. And we have been really -- and they have been terrific. We have been opening up our restaurants and giving them more time and trying to really get them back on their feet.

But the thing that's helped him, I think, is the fact that we have kept our positivity low because of the mess. By the way, our positivity level is about 4 or 5 percent. Last time we reopened, it was at 2 percent. So, even though it's low, it's higher than it was.

And, after that, after that reopening, when I think the governor really botched it up, we ended up having four or five times the number of deaths in the period after the reopening. So, we know things can change dramatically.

And I think what the governor did is, he assembled a group of cherry- picked experts yesterday. I listened to the roundtable very carefully. One of them said, it's not as if a COVID death is especially terrible.

Imagine that being said to the public, and where they argued against using masks and things like that. This is really just not the way to handle either a health care or an economic crisis. And, unfortunately, I don't think I can sort of be a good team member with everybody. I have got to just call it like it is, which is, it's just horrible, and it's really going to kill people.

BOLDUAN: Look, so what is your message then to people coming to Miami Beach who might read this as, it's back to normal now, back to business pre-COVID? What is it?

GELBER: It's wear the damn mask. Just wear it, whether we find you or whether we urge you. We will give you a free one. You're going to have to go back to your community. There are people here who may -- you may infect.

Just do the right thing. We can open our economy up, but we have to do it smartly and cautiously. And I guess the governor has just followed Trump's lead, which has been to just say, forget it, we're going to have rallies and we're going to tell everybody they can do whatever they want.

And that's killed -- I mean, we had 39 deaths today in Dade County, 39, in just my county. Think about. That would be on any other day before this a national story. And, today, it's just another day.

BOLDUAN: Look, and just for point of comparison, everybody, the state is -- Florida is around 5 percent positivity. I think I have got that right. And the governor is basically saying, you can open up.

New York state is below and has been maintaining below 1 percent, and the state has not yet opened up. Like, New York City, they have not -- they're not doing fully open, 100 percent capacity in-person dining. They're not even going to that when they start allowing that open.

So, just point of comparison on where things are and how dramatic this announcement is coming from the Florida governor. What would you say to the governor right now?

GELBER: I would just say, stop politicizing this. I mean, real people are dying. They're somebody's mother or daughter or spouse or best friend or co-worker.

Real people are dying every day. And you can do this thoughtfully. We can open up our economy. Tell people to wear the mask. Don't worry what President Trump is going to think. Just tell them to do it. They can still go to a restaurant with a mask. They can still go shopping with a mask.

Make it mandatory and people will be healthier.

BOLDUAN: That's not the message we're hearing right now. That's for darn sure.

Mayor, thank you very much.

GELBER: (AUDIO GAP) very much, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Wow.

Let me bring in right now Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips. She's a CNN medical analyst, chief clinical officer for the Providence Health System.

Doctor, I'd like to just get your reaction as well. You heard the clear frustration that the mayor of Miami Beach is feeling. What do you think of this announcement from the governor in lifting these restrictions?

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, I'm really disappointed the governor is not looking at the science, is not looking at the data, and is not looking at what's worked in other jurisdictions.

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We know that doing simple things that allow the economy to reopen, exactly as the mayor said, like wearing a mask, like ensuring we have safety protocols in place, can actually help the economy get going while we don't lose people, while we stop transmitting the virus that really impacts people's lives.

So, by going it -- against the science and opening everything up immediately, particularly with a still 5 percent positivity rate, there are going to be more deaths in Florida than there need to be. I'm very disappointed.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

And the governor -- just to add on to that, Doctor, the governor also announced today that he is expecting to host a full Super Bowl. That is how he said it. That's in February. Right now, it's scheduled for February 7. The way that what -- his reasoning, his argument was that he said that

outdoor transmission has just not been a major factor. It's correct that out -- being outside is much better than being inside, but hosting a full Super Bowl, if you will, your -- what do you say to that?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Well, I know that outside is better than inside.

Being socially distanced is better than being in large crowds, particularly in large crowds where people let their inhibitions down, because beer is flowing and people are excited and yelling, right?

BOLDUAN: Great point.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: So I think that there's risk involved, absolutely risk involved.

What it feels like is, this is a every-person-for-themselves moment, that every single person has to figure out how to protect themselves, because, at the moment, our institutions aren't doing the things to protect us.

BOLDUAN: And Dr. Anthony Fauci, just to remind everybody, when he was testifying before Congress, said very clearly, we have to do this all together. If there's a weak link in the chain, it impacts everyone.

And that includes a weak link in the chain in terms of states not following the guidelines and the science. I'm afraid that's exactly what we're looking at right now.

Doctor, thank you for coming on.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up next for us, we have more breaking news involving mail-in ballots. The United States Postal Service has just reached a settlement in a major lawsuit -- what this means for the election.

We have got more ahead.

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BOLDUAN: With just 39 days until Election Day, the president is now not just teasing that he might not accept the result of the election. Now it has moved even beyond that.

The White House is now openly and publicly sowing doubt in the FBI and essentially saying that you can't trust the FBI when it comes to election security.

Here is the White House chief of staff this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: With all due respect to Director Wray, he has a hard time finding e-mails in his own FBI, let alone of figuring out whether there's any kind of voter fraud.

Perhaps he needs to get involved on the ground, and he would change his testimony on Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Just to be clear, this is what Mark Meadows is disputing:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We have not seen historically, any kind of coordinated national voter fraud effort in a major election, whether it's by mail or otherwise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That was the FBI director, Christopher Wray, under oath testifying before Congress.

And the White House would like you to think that he doesn't know what he's talking about. What is the impact of this? We are going to have to see.

But we also have breaking news moments ago. As the president continues his relentless attacks on mail-in voting, the U.S. Postal Service just reached a settlement in a lawsuit about election mail. The terms of the settlement will require that the Postal Service offer prioritization, prioritize election mail, which would mean it moves through faster.

This development comes amid a massive surge of ballot requests across the country. In fact, we are seeing record interest, is what we are finding.

A new CNN survey shows that voters have already requested more than 28 million ballots, while another 43 million will be automatically mailed to voters. More than half-a-million ballots have already been cast in the dozen states that have reported their numbers and data.

Let's get to CNN's Kaitlan Collins. She's standing by.

Kaitlan, there is a ton to get to.

I mean, sometimes, after the president says something outrageous, the White House will spend the following days cleaning it up. But what we have heard from Mark Meadows today, that is not what's happening this time.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And it's a lot harder to clean something up when the president said it a second time, as he did yesterday, when he was given another chance to say, yes, that there could be a peaceful transfer of power. And, instead, he stuck to his original position, Kate, not committing

to that and not guaranteeing that there would be one, something that we have not seen from any other U.S. president in modern history.

But now, instead of just that, we are seeing the chief of staff, Mark Meadows, go a step further in that interview this morning, where he undermined the FBI director, who has been obviously tasked with following election fraud and said it's something that they take very seriously.

And Chris Wray chose his words very carefully yesterday. In that clip you showed, Kate, you can see he is reading from report what appears to be prepared remarks, as he's talking about how they have not seen any evidence of widespread voter fraud here in the U.S.

And the chief of staff was basically saying, he needs to go on the ground in North Carolina, because they believe that would change his perspective and was citing this case in Pennsylvania that the Department of Justice now says they're investigating, where they said they have got these nine ballots that were discarded, seven of which were for Trump, but they said nine initially and had to actually correct that statement on the Justice Department Web site.

And, of course, that comes out of the six million people we saw that voted in Pennsylvania in 2016.

And, really, it's basically this culmination of this effort by the White House to sow doubt about what's going to happen in November, when we know more people than ever are expected to vote by mail.

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And that's something that is playing out in many different ways, including with this lawsuit from the U.S. Postal Service that they just settled. And now they're still waiting on formal approval from the judge Kate. But, if that does get approved, it would basically require the USPS to prioritize election mail, something that we know, obviously, was a massive point of contention earlier this year, just a few months ago, really, as people were talking about whether or not their ballots were going to be safe in the mail.

And the president was trying to cast doubt on that. Now, Kate, there is one reason that the White House is worried about this. And that's because they believe that Democrats are going to outnumber Republicans when it comes to voting by mail.

And one state of concern that they're looking at is North Carolina, where over a million people have requested absentee ballots, compared to the 90,000 that had done so at this point in 2016. And based on what our team has gathered from the data, Kate, Democrats are outnumbering Republicans when it comes to that 2-1.

So it is a big concern for the White House that it's going to affect the vote. And, of course, that comes as the president himself is sowing doubt about whether he's going to accept the results of that vote. BOLDUAN: Yes, it's dizzying, the amount of things that are going on

right now. People are voting as we speak.

And we are now 39 days until Election Day.

Kaitlan, thanks for laying it out. I really appreciate it.

Let me get some more perspective from our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.

Dana, if we now have the chief of staff saying that the FBI director doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to voter fraud or ballot -- concerns over ballots and election fraud, do people need to start thinking of this quite differently, not if the election is going to be contested, but just when and how?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.

There is almost no question, frankly, before this week, but it was cemented this week, when, as Kaitlan--

BOLDUAN: Good point.

BASH: -- just reminded us, the president said, not once, but twice, in no uncertain terms that ballots could be, from his perspective, just discarded, and, more importantly, that he might not be OK with the peaceful transfer of power, which is one of the fundamentals of any democracy, particularly the American democracy.

And so what you heard from the chief of staff today was amplifying what the president said. The fact that he made it so personal, and was so critical of the FBI director, who, as you mentioned at the top, Kate, was under oath and was testifying to Congress, which was doing its oversight duty about the FBI's impression of whether or not there's fraud, and the answer, as you heard, was, there doesn't seem to be widespread fraud.

And, Kate, what this is doing in practical terms, if you listen to what Kaitlan just reported about North Carolina, for example, that early voting and requests for ballots are coming 2-1 Democrats to Republicans, it's not as if Republicans in the Trump campaign are not trying very hard to get their people to vote early. They are.

But it's not easy to do that when you have the candidate himself saying, don't do it because it's riddled with fraud.

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right.

I mean, and laying out this argument that he's -- essentially, the way the president is laying it out and has been for quite some time is that he's the only one you can trust, that worked for him in 2016. Are you seeing that it is working the same in 2020?

I mean, he is the president, and he is the one that picked this FBI director.

BASH: It certainly works with him with a certain segment of the population--

BOLDUAN: Right.

BASH: -- and those who are the true believers, the Fifth Avenue crowd, as we have kind of shorthanded this, meaning the people who he could still count on for support even if he went to Fifth Avenue and shot somebody.

And if you kind of expand that to the echo chamber in conservative media, it is true that he still fancies himself as the disrupter of institutions, despite the fact that he is president of the United States.

And he is trying to -- I mean, there's no -- there's nothing opaque about it. It's not as if he's hiding what he's trying to do. He's doing it in broad daylight, with the biggest, largest megaphone that he has, because he is president of the United States, saying, don't trust the mail-in ballots, don't trust the mail, don't trust basically the elections.

And he is doing that in order to sow doubt so that, when Election Day comes, or maybe election month, depending on how long it takes, if he doesn't win, he can call it fraud. He can call it rigged, and he can cause serious disruption, even if there's no proof to what he is saying.

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He's laying the groundwork in front of our eyes.

BOLDUAN: And you say it's so eloquently. Dana. Really, you can't -- you don't even need to say it's thinly veiled. He is saying, as he always has, the quiet part out loud, very loud, very, very loud.

It's great to see you. Thank you.

BASH: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: So where the fight is going to be playing out if this is contested -- it already is -- it's not contested -- but where it is already playing out is in the states.

So let's go there.

Joining me right now is Virginia's attorney general. Mark Herring.

Thank you for coming back on, Mr. Attorney General. I really appreciate it.

So everyone we have we have talked to about this in the past few days, from members of Congress, to constitutional scholars, they say that if this scenario plays out, where the president is not accepting defeat, if that is what happens, it's going to play out in the states, and it's going to end up in court. And that brings this to you.

Have you considered the legal options that you have? MARK HERRING (D), VIRGINIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, first of all, our

focus -- and what the president is saying is deeply disturbing, it's dangerous, and it's a threat to our very democracy.

He thinks he's above the law. And he is not.

Now, our primary focus is on making sure that we have a good, safe, secure election, making sure that people feel safe and comfortable in voting, whether by mail or in-person, and that their vote is going to count.

But based on the president's words and his actions, we are starting to have conversations now about contingencies that might happen after the election. And, again, our primary focus is on making sure that the election is good, that the American people know that they can vote safely, securely, that their vote will count, whether in-person or by mail.

But, again, given what this president is saying, we are now starting to have some conversations about, what are our options if the president does certain things after the election? And we now have to start looking at those things.

And I never would have thought, in this country, we would be having to have these conversations. But, sadly, we are.

BOLDUAN: I was actually going to say exactly that. I don't want people to miss the fact that it's -- this is -- we live in unprecedented times.

But you, the attorney general of Virginia, are actively having to prepare for a legal fight over the president not accepting the outcome of the presidential election. It's remarkable to say.

HERRING: It is.

But, then again, there have been so many remarkable instances over the last three-and-a-half years since this president has taken office. I never would have thought I would have been going into court having to get an injunction against the president's Muslim ban. And that was just the first couple of weeks in office.

And it's gone on. We have had to litigate over the Enumeration Clause to make sure we have a fair census and an accurate census. Would we have thought that the president would weaponize the Postal Service because he thinks that Americans voting by mail might hurt his reelection chances?

But these are things that we have seen over and over again with this president. And I have also seen how, when he says that he may cross constitutional boundaries or break well-established democratic norms, well, he usually does.

And, oftentimes, when he denies he's doing it, well, it turns out very often he is. So, unfortunately, these are things that we do have to start to consider. And, as attorney general, I want to make sure that I am prepared for

whatever might come at us. But I also want to say really clearly to all Virginians and all Americans, they can have assurance that their electoral system has integrity, that it is safe, and it is secure, and that their vote will count, whether it's cast in-person or by mail.

All Americans need to know they can have confidence in it. Even if the president is trying to undermine people's confidence in it and sow seeds of doubt, we need to counter that with the truth, which is, their votes will count and we can have confidence in our electoral system.

BOLDUAN: And early voting started last week in Virginia. And this -- I want to ask you about something that I was learning happened this past weekend.

You put out a warning, is how I get it, because of reports of potential voter intimidation at a polling site. Can you talk to me about what happened in Fairfax County this weekend? And what does it mean for people that are going to be going to vote early in Virginia today or tomorrow?

HERRING: Well, we got reports that a group of Trump supporters showed up at the polling site where people can vote in-person, absentee.

And there were reports that some voters felt threatened or felt intimidated. And so, given that, I thought it was important