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President Trump's Comments Not Committing to Peaceful Transfer of Power after Presidential Election Draw Controversy; Florida Governor Ron DeSantis Reopens Most Businesses in Florida and Prepares for Super Bowl in Tampa; Judicial Writings of Likely Supreme Court Nominee Amy Coney Barrett Examined; Michelle Obama Hosts Get Out the Vote Event in Atlanta; Protestors Demand Grand Jury Transcripts in Case Related to Death of Breonna Taylor be Released; Program Trains Recovering Addicts to Craft Stringed Instruments. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired September 26, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:15]

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up this hour, election insecurity. President Trump says the only way he'll lose the election is if it's rigged.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, the big reveal, the president's Supreme Court pick set to be revealed in just a few hours.

PAUL: And then, Michelle Obama's non-profit tackles two big issues at once today -- feeding the hungry and getting out the vote.

We want to wish you a good morning. Thank you so much for being with us. It is Saturday, September 26th. I'm Christi Paul.

SAVIDGE: And I'm Martin Savidge in for Victor Blackwell, and you are in the CNN Newsroom.

PAUL: It's always good to have you, Marty. Thanks for waking up early with us here.

So this morning the president is undermining and delegitimizing, essentially, the outcome of the elections, saying, quote, the only way that he will lose this election is if it's rigged. CNN Sarah Westwood is live from the White House for us now. So there have been at least weeks of attacks on mail-in voting, his refusal to commit to a peaceful transition. Help us understand what he was doing last night.

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, Christi, last night we heard the president continuing his efforts to undermine his supporters' confidence in the election results, peddling these baseless claims that fraud could potentially tilt the outcome of the election. There's no evidence for that that he provided.

But this comes after a week in which the president stirred considerable controversy by refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power should he lose the election on November 3rd. With the president at the rally last night said that he would agree to potentially a friendly transition of power only if he felt that he wasn't cheated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's the only way we're going to lose is if there's mischief, mischief. And it will have to be on a big scale. So be careful. And we do want a very friendly transition, but we don't want to be cheated and be stupid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WESTWOOD: Now, at that rally in Virginia the president was peddling baseless theories about fraud and mail-in voting. Again, no evidence of that. And that came just days after he seized on an announcement from the Department of Justice that it had opened an investigation into nine improperly discarded ballots in Pennsylvania. Some of those had been filled out for Trump, but that disclosure raised allegations of political -- playing politics at the DOJ because it did disclose the details of an active investigation and it violated ballot secrecy laws.

But of course, the president and the White House tried to couch his remarks earlier by saying he would agree to a peaceful transition if the election was free and fair. Of course, the president last night was maintaining that he should be the one to get to dictate what is free and fair about the election, and had suggested earlier this week that perhaps that would not even be possible if mail-in voting was so dramatically expanded.

At a separate appearance in Atlanta yesterday, the president was also joking about clinging to his office for more than two terms.

PAUL: All right, Sarah Westwood, we appreciate you being here. Thank you.

SAVIDGE: Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden is dismissing the president's latest attacks on the election process.

PAUL: CNN's Arlette Saenz is with us now. So Arlette, Biden says that the president's refusal to commit to a peaceful transfer of power is, quote, a distraction. Explain.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. Joe Biden is arguing that the president is trying to distract from talking about issues like the economy and the public health crisis in the wake of COVID-19. He simply dismissed the president's comments, saying that no one would go along with him if he did refuse to engage in a peaceful transfer of power, or choose not to engage in that if he were not to win reelection.

And Biden also took aim, criticized the president once again, for casting doubt on the election, for questioning the integrity of mail- in voting. Take a listen to what Biden had to say in an interview with MSNBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The American people aren't going to be shut down in this election. They're going to vote. They're going to vote in large numbers. And there's just not going to be denied. I'm confident all the irresponsible, outrageous attacks on voting, we'll have an election in this country as we always have had. And he'll leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: And Biden's campaign has said that Biden himself has engaged in a peaceful transfer of power when he served in the White House and left in 2016.

Now, both Biden and President Trump are preparing over the weekend for a critical first presidential debate in Cleveland. The two of them engaging in their various forms of debate preparation as they prepare to face off against one another for the first time.

[10:05:00]

Now, Biden told reporters that he was going to start heavily focusing on his debate prep on Thursday. He's held some smaller briefing sessions and read through briefing books. Biden has said that he expects the president to go on the attack and that he expects those attacks to be personal. He said that a lot of what the president says aren't actually based in fact. His campaign has said that Biden is not necessarily going to act as a fact checker during this debate. They expect the moderator to engage in that.

On President Trump's part, he has also been preparing slightly for this debate, trying to study some of those possible lines of attack that could come from Joe Biden. A little bit later today we'll hear from Joe Biden when he speaks to a conference of mayors, one of his final appearances heading into that debate on Tuesday.

SAVIDGE: Yes, it should be fascinating to watch. Arlette Saenz Thank you so much. Good to see you.

PAUL: We want to show you now a live picture of the Supreme Court in Washington. Today, the president is beginning his push to get a third justice on the court. And our next guest writes this -- "No issue is more pivotal in considering a Supreme Court nomination than the candidates view to when to overturn a case she considers wrongly decided. In a series of law review article reviews," she is referring here to Amy Coney Barrett, "makes clear that in matters of constitutional interpretation, she would not hesitate to jettison decisions with which she disagrees."

Ruth Marcus, the writer, the columnist and deputy editorial page editor for the "Washington Post" who wrote that is with us now as we await the president's, we believe, decision to nominate Amy Coney Barrett. Ruth, thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate your time here. Going back to what you wrote about those articles there, what is in the law reviews that you read that concerns you so much? RUTH MARCUS, COLUMNIST AND DEPUTY EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR, "WASHINGTON

POST": Well, Justice Barrett -- I'm getting ahead of myself. Judge Barrett has described herself as an originalist. So she wants to go to an understanding of the Constitution like that of Justice Scalia who she clerked for. But if you're on originalist justice, but you're not willing to get rid of previously decided cases that you disagree with, then your originalism doesn't have a very big impact.

And what she has said is that a justice who believes that a case was wrongly decided should be willing to look just at that and overturn the case. That has implications not just for abortion, which is the thing we mostly talk about when we talk about overturning cases like Roe v Wade, but it has implications for gay rights and same sex marriage. It has implications for Affirmative Action. It has implications for the kind of gender discrimination cases we have been talking about in the case of Justice Ginsburg who was such a pioneer in that area. It could be as I wrote in "The Washington Post" a bombshell approach.

PAUL: Well, in 2017 in her confirmation hearing for her current position she was asked about another review, a 1998 "Marquette Law" review, in which she cited Catholic ideologies specifically condemning abortion, as you talk about specificity here. But she said to that when she was asked about it, she said she didn't believe it was, quote, "lawful for a judge to impose personal opinions from whatever source they derive upon the law," and "said her personal views regarding abortion and other issues," quote, "would have no bearing on the discharge of her duties as a judge."

This is not an infrequent argument, that judges can't interject their personal opinions in the judicial area, but why do you find it unreasonable to believe that she would not follow her own words there?

MARCUS: Well, I think that my analysis of Judge Barrett is going to be based on three things -- her academic writings and comments when she was a law professor, her decisions as an appeals court judge, and what she says in confirmation hearings. So I'm going to just take her at her word that she's going to do her best, as justices do, to try to separate out her personal views and her personal faith from her judicial understanding.

But I think it's very clear that her interpretation and approach to the Constitution would not understand that it has a right to privacy that, for example, encompasses a woman's right to abortion. I think that becomes very clear, not looking at her faith as a Catholic, but looking at her understanding of the Constitution.

PAUL: All right, Ruth Marcus, we appreciate you taking time for us today. Thank you, ma'am.

MARCUS: Thanks so much.

SAVIDGE: As the number of COVID-19 cases continues to surge in the U.S., Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is loosening restrictions on bars, and he's even clearing the way for big crowds at next year's Super Bowl. [10:09:55]

PAUL: And Michelle Obama's campaign to get out the vote hits Atlanta today. How the former first lady wants to help COVID victims in the process as well.

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SAVIDGE: You could expect next year's Super Bowl in Tampa Bay to go on without any major COVID-19 restrictions.

PAUL: Florida governor Ron DeSantis says his state will host, and I'm quoting here, a full Super Bowl in February. That's after he's clearing restaurants and bars to immediately begin operating at 100 percent capacity as of today. We want to go to CNN correspondent Randi Kaye in Palm Beach County, Florida, right now. So Randi, what details can you give us on Florida's phase three reopening?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was a big move by the governor certainly, Christi. He said that phase three is under way immediately. That means that he lifted all restrictions on bars and restaurants and nightclubs throughout the state, basically reopening the state for business 100 percent. Restaurants can now be open up to 100 percent capacity, so fully open.

[10:15:02]

Bars and nightclubs also under phase three can be open to 100 percent, although they will have some limited social distancing protocols. But the governor says he wants to stop punishing people for not social distancing.

Also, if the county does want to keep a restaurant open to between 50 percent and 100 percent capacity -- there's nothing allowed that would be less than 50 percent. But if they want to go a little bit less than 100 percent, they actually have to prove that and offer some justification for their reasoning as well.

The governor did say that south Florida, where we are in Palm Beach County, Broward County, Miami-Dade, the hardest hit counties, there would be a different approach. Miami-Dade hasn't even opened their bars, so you can't expect them to go from zero to 100 percent right away.

And also, it affects these, these masks. The governor has also said that the counties and the local municipalities will no longer be able to fine people for not wearing their masks around -- in public or inside. There are a lot of mandates that you have to wear them inside as well. So he basically did away with the mask mandate.

And this came as a real surprise to some of the local officials. The Orange County mayor, where Orlando is, Jerry Demings, he said that he learned about this from a bar owner. He didn't even know that the governor was going to do this. He's disappointed, he said. He's going to have his county attorney look at it. He also said that his mask mandate will stay in place because they don't offer fines, or they don't fine people for not wearing masks.

And as you mentioned, the Super Bowl, the governor says the threat has eased here. He's confident we can have a Super Bowl here in Florida many February. Listen to what he said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I also want to be able to show we're going to be able to host the Super Bowl in February. We expect to do a full Super Bowl. And we're going to show that we're going to be able to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And the governor says that he believes the state is in a position to handle any increase in infections, if there is a spike, now that we're going to be open to 100 percent capacity. He also believes that he will not close the state at all. He said do not expect the state to close no matter what happens here with that spike.

And I should point out that we now have about 700,000 cases of coronavirus here in the state of Florida, about 14,000 dead, another 120 dead just yesterday. So, certainly the governor sees it as the threat has eased. But many here in the state of Florida still taking precautions. Christi, Martin?

SAVIDGE: Randi Kaye, thank you very much.

Let me bring in now CNN medical analyst and former Baltimore health commissioner, Leana Wen. Good morning to you.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

SAVIDGE: Let me start by asking you, these actions by Governor DeSantis in Florida, Florida has had a terrible time with this virus. It seems to be improving. But right at the point you make the improvement now comes this great relaxation. I'm just wondering your professional thoughts on that.

WEN: Frankly, it's irresponsible. It's really not the direction that we should be going right now. We should be looking at the highest risk settings, and by now we have the science to show us that indoor bars, very crowded restaurants where people cannot social distance, these are really the highest risk transmission for coronavirus.

We also know that mask-wearing is something that if we all do it, it reduces the rate of transmission by 80 percent, which is really substantial. It protects ourselves and those around us. We should be implementing these measures that work. And we should not be waiting until hospital rates and ICUs become overwhelmed before we start applying these public health measures.

I think by dialing back these restrictions at this time, Governor DeSantis is sending the wrong message. He's sending the message that it's all clear when actually coming into the winter months we should be on our guard even more than before. SAVIDGE: And giving -- it does give this sort of sense to people that,

oh, well, it's over. The worst is past. And I bring that up now because, of course, there is a lot of focus on a vaccine. And yet even as it appears we get closer and closer to the reality of not just one but maybe several vaccines, there is growing skepticism on the part of the public. In fact, recent polling has shown that the levels of people's doubt in the medicine and in this vaccine has continued to increase. And I'm wondering what's your level of confidence in the vaccine?

WEN: I have confidence in scientists. I have confidence in our top government institutions that have always done such an exceptional job of protecting the public and safeguarding our health and well-being. The problem, though, is I don't have confidence that there isn't going to be political pressure and political manipulation that forces speed at the expense of safety and efficacy. And this is what we're seeing in the polling data.

[10:20:00]

We know that there are individuals who are skeptical of vaccines at baseline, who may be anti-science. But the people who are newly skeptical are not these individuals. They're people who really believe in science, but they also are distrustful every time they hear President Trump, for example, linking vaccine approval to his election prospects. I think the best thing that can happen right now is for us to totally separate politics from the science and let the scientists who do this work day in and day out, let them have control over the vaccine approval process, because in order for a vaccine to be taken, in order for us to see the effects of the vaccine, not only does it have to be safe and effective, it also has to be trusted. It's a vaccination that saves lives, not the development of the vaccine.

SAVIDGE: There is a new study that came out this week that said that the coronavirus may have mutated. And we know that viruses do traditionally, routinely mutate, but that it's become even more contagious. And I'm wondering, what does that say, then, when we talk about a vaccine, if it has the ability to change even after we've come up with one?

WEN: Yes. So the coronavirus is an RNA virus, and these RNA viruses do mutate. The good news is that the new strains of the virus don't seem to be more severe. It's possible that they're looking as if they could be more contagious, which is an issue, especially because this is already such a silent spreader. It affects asymptomatic individuals, transmitted through aerosols, and so forth. So it may be that we need to develop vaccines that also have to change over time as we do with the flu vaccine.

But so much remains unknown. We have to keep in mind that this is a novel coronavirus, and we're finding out more about this every day. But this is also why we really need to keep up our guard. This is a highly contagious virus. Another study that came out this week found that less than 10 percent of Americans have antibodies to the virus, which means that there is a long way to go. This virus has a long way to go before it stops infecting Americans and, unfortunately, killing people.

SAVIDGE: Right. If anyone thought we were close to herd immunity that would go against that. Dr. Leana Wen, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

WEN: Thank you.

PAUL: So stay with us. Michelle Obama's campaign to get out the vote just kicked off right here in Atlanta. And there's our own Natasha Chen who is there, going to be reporting for us more about what's happening there right now and how the former first lady plans to get people involved without even leaving their cars.

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[10:27:00]

PAUL: So Michelle Obama's campaign to get out the vote just kicked off in Atlanta. And like a lot of other events during the pandemic, it's not very traditional in terms of voter registration. This is a drive, and when we say drive, we mean that in the real literal term.

(LAUGHTER)

SAVIDGE: Yes, we do. CNN national correspondent Natasha Chen joins us with the details. Good morning, Natasha.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Martin and Christi. We saw about 40, 50 cars lined up outside of Mercedes-Benz Stadium this morning before the event started. The first person probably waiting there a whole hour because this is also a food drive.

And now I'm actually standing here with Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, who visited with some of the people driving through this event. You talked to people who are both being asked if they've registered to vote and people who need food and other donations. What are you hearing from them when you talk to them here?

MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS (D-GA), ATLANTA: Well, this is a great initiative with so many great partners. This, of course, is When We All Vote, the Michelle Obama non-partisan initiative. So what we're hearing from people really is gratitude, people grateful to get food, but also an opportunity for them to fill out their census form and to register to vote. So, not many places that you can get all three in one.

But this is what 2020 is all about. Certainly, we want people to register to vote. There's nothing more important this year. And then right behind that is the opportunity to fill out the census form to be counted. And during this pandemic and so much uncertainty across the country, it's important that we remind people over and over again. And then on top of that, people just are in need this year. People need and appreciate the food that we're giving out, and we're also giving out books to kids.

CHEN: Yes. I was seeing the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Atlanta area for September seeing an unemployment rate of eight-and-a-half percent, a major jump from this time last year. What are you saying to people who are perhaps coming through to a food drive for the first time in their lives?

BOTTOMS: What we're saying to people is that we know that you are in need, and this is what we do as a city. We're here to stand in the gap for people who are in need. But at the end of the day we can't do it without important partnerships. And so to have When We All Vote and so many other important partners to be a part of this really is who we are as a city, who we are as a community. And it's an opportunity to give back and just to remind people that they aren't alone and they aren't forgotten.

CHEN: Right, that it's a shared experience for sure, that a lot of people are going through the same thing. Now, are you finding that some people are really not registered to vote yet? Do you find that a lot of people are getting that done today?

BOTTOMS: There are some people who aren't registered to vote and others who need to change their addresses, which is just as important, because we don't want people to take the time to show up and vote and then not have their votes counted. And with all that's going on in 2020, so much weighing so heavily on so many people's hearts and minds, it's really good that we can present all of this to people all in one.

[10:30:04]

So giving them books, giving them food, but also the opportunity, again, registering to vote, filling out the census form, so important this year.

CHEN: It is. And thank you so much for stopping to talk with us about this. As you said, it definitely is a one-stop shop for folks who are driving through here. And we've already heard some anecdotes of people who did need to change their address. So if anyone out there has moved, that needs to be updated for your voter registrations. Just wanted to remind everyone of that. Victor -- Martin and Christi today, back to you.

PAUL: No problem. Natasha Chen, thank you so much. Great information there.

So the president of the United States is again casting some doubt on whether he'll accept the results of the upcoming election. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That's the only way we're going to lose is if there's mischief. And we do want a very friendly transition, but we don't want to be cheated and be stupid and say, oh, we'll go and we'll do a transition, and we know that there were thousands and thousands of ballots that made the difference through cheating. We're not going to stand for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PAUL: Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman and Republican strategist Alice Stewart both with us. Good morning to both of you. It's good to have you here.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, Christi.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be you.

PAUL: Hi. Thank you.

So, Alice, I want to get to some of the points the president is making there, and some of the other things he said about this election. On September 24th he said we want to make sure the election is honest. I'm not sure it can be. September 23rd, he said the ballots are a disaster. We have to get rid of the ballots. September 13th at a rally, he said the Dems are trying to rig this election because that's the only way they're going to win.

If the election is rigged, what does that mean for him if he wins? This is a president who has been obsessed with legitimizing his presidency from the time that he talked in 2016 about the number of people that came to his inauguration, from the popular vote versus the electoral vote. He wants to be legitimate president, but how is he one if this election is rigged in any way?

STEWART: Well, when he win, I'm sure he will take the world's biggest and most beautiful victory lap we have ever seen on the face of the earth. But Christi, it's also important to remind people another thing he did say last night at the rally was that he does support a, quote, "beautiful transition" as long as there's an honest vote.

Look, I will be the first one to say that the integrity and the trust and faith the American people have in our election system is paramount. We all deserve the right to free and fair elections. And any questions about the integrity of our elections, I think it's inappropriate and really not helpful to the process. So, I wish that this kind of talk would stop and move forward to turning out the vote.

I am encouraged that we saw Mitch McConnell come out and say the Senate Republicans and members across the Senate are committed to a peaceful transition of power. Kayleigh McEnany, the president's spokeswoman, said they are committed to a peaceful transfer of power. So the more we can put emphasis on that and driving people out and not discouraging people from the process I think is a step in the right direction.

PAUL: Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: No, it's not. Christi, until we see Republican leaders and Congress and Republican leaders around the country, and in fact, you're, Alice, make it clear that unless Donald Trump makes a complete commitment to the full transfer of power and the peaceful transfer of power, he is betraying the very principles of our country.

The Republican leadership never took on Donald Trump over this issue. And in fact, Kayleigh McEnany and his supporters all created various scenarios why there wouldn't be a peaceful transition of power. And that is the real election. If this election is rigged, it's only because Donald Trump is trying to rig it through the Supreme Court, by trying to block people from voting, by trying to disqualify legal mail-in ballots because he can't win a fair contest.

But the bigger point here and the most important point is Donald Trump's failure to call for a full and complete peaceful transition of power betrays the very principles of our country, and Republicans have an obligation to call him out on it and rise above partisanship and put the democracy and Constitution first.

PAUL: You mentioned the Supreme Court, Robert. Alice, to you. We have word that Amy Coney Barrett was actually the only candidate that was even formally interviewed by the president. Do you see any reason that might be problematic?

STEWART: No, Christi, I think that makes sense given that she has been vetted before, and she has been on his shortlist for Supreme Court nominees for many years. And she is someone that not just this president but a lot of his base has support and faith in. And a bipartisan support got her to the judgeship that she is in right now. And I think it's important that they proceed without delay on this.

There are four reasons. They have the constitutional obligation to do so in the Senate and in this administration. They also have historical precedent given the timeline that this can be done. Many have been done in a much shorter timeframe, as well as voters voted Republicans to control the Senate when Obama was president and now. And with Republicans in control they can do this.

But also, Democrats shot themselves in the foot back in 2013 when they did away with the filibuster on this issue and really shot down any opportunities to have further debate on this. So there are many reasons and much precedent down in place and set in stone as to why we need to go forward. And she is a very solid judge. She would be a great justice to replace Justice Ginsburg, and I see absolutely no reason to delay it.

PAUL: Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: You know, Christi, I have to ask Alice. Where was that constitutional obligation to approve Supreme Court vacancies and fill the court when President Obama nominated Merrick Garland? Then of course it was nine months before the election, and of course the Republicans said it would be inappropriate. It was too close to a presidential election.

Let's understand, Judge Coney is not being chosen. This judge is not being chosen as she was selected from star search. She is being chosen by Donald Trump and by Mike Pence because they want to fill that Supreme Court because they're going to be election challenges coming up and they want to make sure they have a vote that's going to rig the court in their favor.

This is a tragic move if they nominate -- if they fill this position right before the election because it, in fact, compromises the integrity of the court, and this judicial nominee should, in fact, recuse herself from any discussions about the presidential election because she's being nominated for the purpose of helping Donald Trump's reelection.

STEWART: Well, here is the thing -- you're mirroring a lot of what all the Democrats say. They said that Brett Kavanaugh was too immoral. Judge Barrett is too moral. There's no Goldie Locks Supreme Court nominee that President Trump can put forward that Democrats would embrace. So, she is someone that has been vetted before in a bipartisan vote --

ZIMMERMAN: But there are rules and there are ethics.

STEWART: -- and no need to delay.

ZIMMERMAN: There are rules and there are ethics in our judicial standards. And nominating Judge Barrett to fill the court in this urgent rush that Donald Trump is doing, and he's very clear about it. He's doing it to fill the court because there will be election challenges coming before the Supreme Court. He has a personal motivation --

PAUL: Robert, let me ask you a question. If you think roles were reversed would Democrats be doing anything differently?

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not. Let's be very clear about this. First of all, a judicial nominee would -- they would follow the Abraham Lincoln rule of not filling the position right before an election, which is what Abraham Lincoln did. He waited until the next election. And secondly, obviously the judicial nominee would have to recuse themselves from ruling on the -- what could personally benefit the person nominating her. In this case, Judge Barrett is being nominated by Donald Trump and he expects her to vote with him on court challenges in front of the Supreme Court. It is a great conflict of interest.

PAUL: I'm sorry that we have ran out of time. Alice and Robert, we appreciate you both being here. It's good to have your voices in this. Thank you, both.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you so much.

STEWART: Thank you, Christi.

SAVIDGE: Across the country, protesters demand justice for the death of Breonna Taylor and want the grand jury transcripts made public. Her mother says she's lost faith in the legal system. We're live from Louisville next.

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[10:42:33]

PAUL: So protests in Louisville were mostly peaceful last night. Demonstrators demanded justice for the shooting death of Breonna Taylor back in March, but police did use flashbangs, as you heard there, when there was a group that refused to move on to the sidewalk. About two dozen people were arrested.

SAVIDGE: On Wednesday, a grand jury decided not to directly charge any officers in Taylor's death. Her supporters want the transcripts of those proceedings of the grand jury made public.

PAUL: CNN's crime and justice reporter Shimon Prokupecz is with us now. Is there any chance, Shimon, you've heard this morning since you're there in Louisville, is there any chance those transcripts will be released?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: There is that chance. It's ultimately going to be up to the attorney general and probably a legal process where supporters, perhaps her family, reporters will need to sue to get that information released. Some of it will be released because they did indict that one detective. So because of that, his lawyers will get that information. And then it's a question of whether or not the public can get their hands on that.

And the reason why that is so important, that information, is because the family and certainly the people out here who have now been demonstrating for weeks and weeks and have picked up some of those demonstrations, because they want to know, they want to see inside that grand jury. They want to know if any evidence was presented relating to Breonna Taylor, whether or not her killing was part of the grand jury, whether or not they ever considered what happened to her as part of the charges that they wound upbringing on that one detective.

Remember, that detective was charged with basically recklessly firing his weapon into her neighbor's apartment. Nothing related to Breonna Taylor. And that is why so many of the supporters and her family are so upset. They wanted manslaughter charges. They did not get that. And so they're going to continue. They said they're going to be here for days, weeks, as long as it needs to take for them to see inside that grand jury.

SAVIDGE: Yes. I think there are a lot of people who want to see just exactly how this case was explained to the grand jury. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you for joining us this morning.

PAUL: So think about this, what does it take to face your greatest fears and flaws, and to overcome that?

[10:44:56]

Well, in CNN's Champions for Change we're meeting two men who are helping addicts find the road to recovery and peace along the way.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:48]

SAVIDGE: All this morning we have been bringing you good news stories. This time on CNN's Champions for Change we travel to one small town in Kentucky where opioid addiction is a major problem. Now two men are using the power of music to help people turn their lives around and overcome addiction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG NASELROAD, DIRECTOR, APPALACHIAN SCHOOL OF LUTHIERY: There's a lot of beauty in southeastern Kentucky. We have a saying around here that every holler is a home to someone's weary soul. Troublesome Creek got its name for the most obvious of reasons. In rainy times it tears out bridges and roads when it gets really, really angry. Well, it's a pretty good metaphor the downturn of the coal industry taking away all the good jobs, and, of course, the opioid epidemic.

I am a Master Luthier. Luthiery is the art of stringed instrument making. Hindman, Knott County, Kentucky, is considered to be the birthplace of the Mountain Dulcimer. When I first came down to establish the Appalachian school of Luthiery in 2012, and then came Earl.

EARL MOORE, INSPIRED CULTURE OF RECOVERY PROGRAM: When I did my first oxycontin, I felt like it would ease the pain and make it easier for me. The pain from failure, the not believing in myself, I was in jail for nine months. I've been through five different drug treatment facilities. I had a love for woodwork. I knew I had a love for guitars.

NASELROAD: He said I need you to teach me how to make guitars. I said, well, that's no problem. That's what we do. He said, no, you don't understand. I need to come and do this.

MOORE: I was probably headed for death that time. How many more chances do you get in life?

NASELROAD: There was some discussion about the wisdom of bringing people of addiction into our studios.

MOORE: He's like, we're going to give you a chance. Don't let us down. What was supposed to be a one-year artisan residence turned into a six-year relationship. I built over 70 instruments at this point. Art releases something deep inside of you you don't know you have. In woodworking I was able to see the flaws but turn them into features. I grew in self-confidence. I'm still sober eight years later.

NASELROAD: We actually took our experience with Earl, and using that as a spring line, the staff of the Appalachian Artisan Center created the Culture of Recovery program, which was designed to host people in recovery in our studios, our blacksmith, pottery, and luthiery studios. We don't do the difficult work that the recovery centers do. We don't take people in who need to go through detox. They do that, and heroically. What we do is we accept people into our studios when they've phased into a place where that's useful to them.

ANTHONY CARTER, STUDENT, CULTURE OF RECOVERY PROGRAM: I've never really completed anything before in my life. And it's actually turned out to be a pretty nice piece of artwork.

JUDGE KIMBERLEY CHILDERS, KENTUCKY CIRCUIT COURT: With my drug court clients that participate in the program, the recidivism rate is very low. I would consider it to be 10 percent or less. They're learning skills. They're learning patience. They're building relationships. And they're going to have a finished product in their hand.

NASELROAD: Troublesome Creek Stringed Instrument Company is an extension of our school that allows us to bring people from the recovery community into full-time employment.

MOORE: My life today is bigger than I ever dreamed imaginable. I went back and got a master's degree in network security. From an addict to director of information technology. So today I get to work with addicts. It's amazing to see people's lives change.

[10:55:04]

Doug believed in me. He was able to show me a lot of things that I couldn't see in myself. I feel like God put Doug in this town.

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SAVIDGE: Be sure to watch Champions for Change. That's tonight at 10:00 eastern right here on CNN. I love that line that he used, see the flaws and turn them into features.

PAUL: Yes, isn't that awesome? And the other thing that struck me is something I think we all realize, sometimes all you need is somebody to believe in you.

SAVIDGE: Yes.

PAUL: That's all you need to get going.

SAVIDGE: Makes all the difference.

PAUL: So let's go out there and be the believers for them for sure.

SAVIDGE: Absolutely.

PAUL: Marty, it's so good to have you here. He'll be back with us tomorrow. Don't think I'm letting him off the hook that easily.

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SAVIDGE: I'm back here with you tomorrow. Don't worry.

PAUL: Yes. We hope you make good memories today. Thank you for being with us.

SAVIDGE: There is much more ahead in the next hour of CNN's Newsroom. Fredricka Whitfield is up right after this.

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