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Biden And Trump Strike At Each Other Prior First Debate; Trump Downplays The Pandemic, Again; Motor Vehicles As Weapons Against Protesters; Bombshell Report By "New York Times" On Trump's Finances. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired September 27, 2020 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello on this Sunday. You are live in CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thanks for being with me. Tonight, Trump versus Biden. Just two days before they face off on the debate stage, the two candidates are escalate escalating their attacks on one another.
In just a short time from now, the president is set to hold a previously unscheduled press conference at the White House where he will no doubt be asked about Joe Biden's remarks from earlier today, framing Trump's Supreme Court nomination as a mortal threat not only to the Affordable Care Act but also to American democracy itself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senate has to stand strong for our democracy and must not act on this nomination until the American people finish the process they've already begun, of selecting their president and their Congress.
And the voters in my view are not going to stand for this abuse of power. And if we are to call ourselves a democracy, their voices must be heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: A majority of Americans apparently agree with Biden, According to this new poll, 56 percent of likely voters think the next Supreme Court justice should be appointed or nominated by the winner of the November election.
But Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham is barreling ahead. He is already setting the timetable saying his committee will approve Judge Amy Coney Barrett's nomination on October 22nd, setting up a full Senate vote by the end of the month.
Let's get right to CNN White House correspondent John Harwood now. And John, as we await this press conference from the president, we're hearing very strong words from the Democratic nominee about what is at stake if Trump's Supreme Court nominee is confirmed.
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Ana, it was a fascinating turn this morning. You know, President Trump has been hoping that the opportunity to nominate another conservative justice to the Supreme Court would energize his base in a race that had not been going well for him especially those social conservatives who care about issues like right to life, for example.
The last week of polling has showed that that has not happened. In fact, we had a flurry of polls today showing the president with a substantial deficit nationally and in Midwestern battleground states. And so what the president did was lean into a bread and butter argument, making an old case that he had been making for some time that he would replace Obamacare with a much better and cheaper alternative.
He said it would be a big win for the USA if the newly constituted Supreme Court with Amy Coney Barrett struck down the Affordable Care Act. While that happens to be precisely the argument, the Democrats and Joe Biden want to be making in this race to try to convince a lot of those blue collar white supporters of the president that he would take away their health care. So, here is Joe Biden's message today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: This is about your health care. This is about whether or not the ACA will exist. This is about whether or not preexisting conditions will be continued to be covered. This is about whether or not a woman can be charged more for the same procedure as a man. This is about people's health care in the middle of a pandemic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARWOOD: And Ana that of course allows Joe Biden to tie the future of health care, which is an issue Democrats have a big advantage on to the president's performance in handling coronavirus. In both cases, the majority of voters we've seen believe that Joe Biden would handle those issues better than the president.
CABRERA: And we should note, the president keeps saying he has a plan that it's much better than the Affordable Care Act and he has yet to present any details of this plan. He's been talking about for weeks and even months now.
John, I also want to ask you about what we're hearing from other members of this administration. Trump's made clear he wants his nominee rushed through in part because he thinks the election could be contested and he's been railing against mail-in ballots as has his White House chief of staff who openly tacked the FBI director today, right?
HARWOOD: He did, Ana, for the second time in a few days. Of course, the president has been attacking the voting process because of those polls showing him losing substantially in the race so far, suggesting that the only way an outcome could go against him is if the voting is rigged and complaining about mail-in ballots.
Chris Wray testified on Capitol Hill last week and said, you know, we have not seen evidence of substantial fraud in mail-in balloting. That triggered an immediate attack from chief of staff Mark Meadows and we heard it again today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: To suggest that there is a process that is full of integrity is trying to make a verdict before you've actually heard the case and that's my problem with Director Wray. They need to investigate it and make sure that the voting populous --
MARGARET BRENNAN, CBS HOST: Are you confident in him? Is the president confident in him?
MEADOWS: -- make sure that their vote counts and no one else's does. I beg your pardon?
BRENNAN: Is the president confident in him?
MEADOWS: Well, I mean as we look at this, we want to make sure he's doing his job. There are different degrees of confidence in different cabinet members and certainly he is still there.
[17:0501]
The minute that the president loses confidence in any of his cabinet members, he'll -- they serve at his pleasure. He will certainly look at replacing them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARWOOD: And Ana, you heard Mark Meadows there question Christopher Wray for having given a verdict before he's investigated the case. The problem with what Mark Meadows said is that for decades, Republicans have tried to investigate voter fraud. What they have found is isolated incidents, small numbers of cases.
But as Ben Ginsburg, the preeminent Republican election lawyer who has defected from the party on this issue said in an op-ed the other day, widespread fraud simply does not exist.
CABRERA: And if it did, he would have found it, he said. John Harwood at the White House, thank you.
Now, the Supreme Court debate is just one of many issues Biden and President Trump will take on head to head in their first presidential debate Tuesday night.
Let's go to political correspond correspondent Arlette Saenz. She is in Cleveland. And Arlette, these two men, they've been preparing for this debate for days and weeks, as have the American people. What can we expect?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's going to be a debate unlike any other that we've seen due to the coronavirus pandemic. The Commission on Presidential Debates working hard to ensure the safety and health of the candidates, the audience and the media, who are all here, will be here in Cleveland for that first presidential showdown.
Now, one of the biggest signs that you will notice about this change debate is that there will be no handshake between President Trump and Joe Biden as they take the stage.
They're deciding to forego that traditional handshake due to COVID-19. Another sign of COVID-19's impact, there is no media spin room. That area where the campaigns typically send their supporters and representatives after the debate to talk about why they believe their candidate did well.
There is also going to be a smaller audience compared to past debates. The co-chair of the commission said that typically these debates have about 900 people on hand. This one is going to have about 60 to 80 people in the audience.
So, a much smaller footprint and everyone who will be attending the debate will go through COVID-19 testing and follow other health and safety protocols. Just many of the signs that we are seeing at this debate of the way the coronavirus pandemic has shaped this campaign.
And you'll remember there's actually two debates that were moved from their original locations due to COVID-19. The University of Notre Dame was supposed to host this first presidential debate in July. They withdrew and ultimately it's taking place here at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland.
CABRERA: And Arlette, tell us what the topics will be that the candidates are expected to be asked about?
SAENZ: Well, Ana, each of these candidates has been preparing in their own way for this debate. It will be a 90-minute debate covering six topics that were chosen by the debate's moderator, Chris Wallace of Fox News.
Those six topics include the Trump and Biden records, the Supreme Court, a hot topic right now between both of those candidates, also COVID-19, the economy, race and violence in our cities, and the integrity of the election.
President Trump will receive the first question from Chris Wallace. And one thing that we've heard from Biden's advisers as he has been preparing for this debate, is that they don't expect the former vice president to be fact checking Donald Trump on that stage.
But today the commission on debates said that the moderator isn't going to be the one acting as a fact checker, that that is left up to the candidates. So we will see how this plays out in just two days as Biden and President Trump are slated to face off, face to face, one on one, for the first time in this general election.
CABRERA: Okay, Arlette Saenz in Cleveland, thank you.
Joining us now, April Ryan, White House correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks. April, we are two days out from this first debate and we're hearing some serious smack talk. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A dumb guy. He's a dumb guy. Always known as a dumb guy, but we look forward to seeing him in the debate. He's got a lot more experience. He's got 47 years, I've got three and a half years, so we'll see.
BIDEN: It is going to be difficult. I know, I mean my guess is it's going to be just straight attack. They're going to be mostly personal. That's the only thing he knows how to do. He doesn't know how to debate the facts because he's not that smart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: So Trump says Biden's dumb, Biden says Trump isn't that smart. I mean, if that's what we are hearing now, what do you expect Tuesday night?
APRIL RYAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: Well, you know, Ana, if this was not such a place of decorum and politics, I would think it would be a street fight for real. But at the end of the day, there's going to be a verbal fisticuffs, if you will, on that stage.
But I talked to Senator Kamala Harris, Monday, in my exclusive interview on my IG live and I asked her if she was helping with Vice President Biden's debate prep. She said no, I've got my own debate I'm prepping for.
But she said, and this answers your question if I'm reading it correctly. She said, Joe Biden is a fighter. When he is fighting, it's not for the purpose of beating people down but lifting people up.
[17:10:03]
He knows how to fight for the people. That is what he will do during the debate. But we know this president, we've seen him in his debate stance. His debate stance is one of the gutter game, personal attacks, talking about your hair, talking about, well, size matters.
This president knows how to make a personal attack, to try to throw people off. And really it's a deflection from the issue, from the policy that is on the table, just like the reporter said a moment ago. You know, the issue of the economy, the race issues and the violence that's happening and also the integrity of the elections.
The president will say other things instead of dealing with the issue at hand. Just to say he won or got one up. This is what he knows how to do, the gutter game, but when it comes to policy and politics, that's something to really take a look at and really examine with a microscope. He's lacking there.
CABRERA: I want to get your thoughts on this because the man who helped Hillary Clinton prepare to debate Donald Trump four years ago had some advice for Joe Biden and he says, "the best way to deal with Trump won't to be try to fact check him in real time or to let lies and absurdities go in the hope that moderators or viewers catch them. There's a third option: preempt the president. Say in advance that we all know what's coming."
Philippe Reines says to do that, Biden should just say something like this. "Come on, Mr. President, everyone knows that whatever you call fake is real, whatever you call a lie is the truth, whatever you accuse others of doing is what you've done. And whatever you make fun of me for saying by accident only serves to deflect from what you say on purpose." What do you think of that?
RYAN: You know, if I were really putting my hat on as a kid growing up, I would think that's a street game, get them before they get you, but in politics, that's the same. This president does not play fair. So in order to beat him at his own game, you got to come with facts and hit him hard first to kind of knock him onto the ropes, knock him off-balance because he's not expecting it.
And what Joe Biden has to do is give him an unsuspected surprise moment by moment. Be that clear-minded person who can land that punch succinctly so Donald Trump will be on the ropes, and at issue are the issues today, COVID.
Joe Biden has that in his pocket -- 200,000 people have died, but yet the president wants to say oh, we've got it under control. No, you don't if there are more expected to die by the end of the year, into the hundreds of thousands.
Also the issue of their records. Joe Biden had a successful record with Barack Hussein Obama, the first black president. And this president's record is lacking in some issues. So, he's got to hit him hard and hit him fast so Donald Trump can't hit him back.
CABRERA: What do you see as Joe Biden's biggest weakness going into this debate?
RYAN: Joe Biden's biggest weakness is Joe Biden. If he is not on point, if he's not as succinct, he's got to be clear-minded with this. Sometimes he gets lost in his speak. He's very clear with what he says, but sometimes he goes off on a tangent.
But he has to be succinct. Whatever they're going to do in this prep, they're going to have to make sure he does this on the stage on Tuesday night in Cleveland, Ohio.
CABRERA: We've learned the live audience at this debate is going to be much, much smaller than usual. You know, historically, there's an average of 900 people in the audience. This time because of health precautions for COVID, we're told there may only be 60 to 70 people instead. I wonder if that will have an impact on either candidate, especially President Trump who we all know thrives off the energy of a big crowd?
RYAN: Right. He thrives off the energy of the big crowd at these super spreader events. So, it all depends on who is in the crowd. This president believes in his loyalists being there. He feeds off of them. He's almost like a Baptist preacher that rise and fall. He plays off of the emotion of the crowd.
Joe Biden is going to maybe look every now and then at is people, but he's going to stay focused on Donald Trump. But Donald Trump needs the crowd to cheer and jeer, if you will, to make him come out and be as strong as he is. Joe Biden has to stand on his record and stay focused on Trump to keep it going.
CABRERA: We learned today former DHS secretary and former Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge, a Republican, will be casting his ballot for Joe Biden, first time he said he's ever voted for a Democrat and he writes in the "Philadelphia Inquirer," "While I do not agree with many of Biden's policies, I do know him to be a decent man who can begin to undo the damage President Trump has caused."
April, do you think that endorsement will make any difference especially in such a hotly-contested and important swing state?
RYAN: Well, any endorsement makes a difference at this moment, but at issue, the issue is correct.
[17:15:00]
You know, I've heard from one on ones with Hillary Clinton, former Secretary of State and former U.N. ambassador, former national security adviser Susan Rice, that sentiment is correct. If indeed there is a change in the presidency, things could be repaired at this moment, but if we go another four years, it's irreparable damage.
So, the sentiment is the same, but every voice counts in changing the perception of what this is we're sitting in right now.
CABRERA: April Ryan, thanks so much for your insights and reporting as always. Good to see you.
RYAN: Thank you for having me, too.
CABRERA: President Trump has been falsely claiming the coronavirus pandemic is winding down, but take a look at this map. Cases are still rising across much of the country. We'll have our medical expert with us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: Now, despite the assessment of medical professionals like Dr. Anthony Fauci, the president continues to incorrectly insist that the pandemic is winding down.
[17:20:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're rounding to turn the heat when I say that, the opposition, but we are. We're rounding the turn on the pandemic and very incredibly, we have some of the great vaccines, great companies and we're going to have different vaccines, very powerful vaccines, great vaccines, and therapeutics, but this is all happening very, very soon. So, we're in great shape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Dr. Fauci cautions we are still in the first wave of the coronavirus and has warned infection rates will likely rise throughout the fall and the winter. Globally, coronavirus deaths are approaching 1 million deaths.
Think of that, nearly 1 million people dead. CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner joins us now. Dr. Reiner, we're at 204,721 deaths that we know of about this point in the U.S. We know case counts are on the rise across much of the country.
The U.S. had two days this past week with more than 50,000 new cases. Just Friday, New York saw daily cases above 1,000 for the first time since June. Florida just surpassed 700,000 coronavirus cases.
There's so much evidence out there that we're in big trouble right now and yet we've learned that the White House is moving away from daily briefings from the coronavirus task force to pivot to the economy and reopening the country. What does that tell you?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It's the same story every day. It's politics over people. I mean, the truth is just as you stated, Ana. The virus is surging in large parts of the country, and in surging in large parts of the country that the president needs to win in the election, which is why you won't hear him talk about it.
So for instance, in Wisconsin, there are now about 2,000 cases a day over the last week compared with about 675 cases a day last month, and hospitals are really seeing their largest number of patients.
You know, other parts of the Midwest are seeing similar surges. Oklahoma and Missouri, they're having more than 1,000 cases per day and hospitals are filling up in places like Springfield. So, in large parts of this country throughout the Midwest and the plains states, we're seeing tremendous increases in the number of cases.
So the virus is not going away. We continue to see about 800 deaths per day, and that has been consistent for most of the summer now. So we're not turning the corner. We're not on the final turn.
CABRERA: Dr. Fauci says if we have vaccinations this year, maybe as early as November or December, it will still take time until everything returns to pre-COVID normalcy. When do you think things will return to "normalcy?"
REINER: Things will seem to be more normal when we have a vaccine achieve a herd immunity. No one's quite sure what proportion of the population that means, but let's say 60 to 70 percent of the population having immunity either as a consequence of having been infected with the virus naturally or getting antibodies from the vaccine, it's going to take a long time to roll out these vaccines.
The initial vaccines that we're likely to see have very cumbersome logistics requiring these ultra-cold storage chains. There are some vaccines in production in development that will be more heat stable in which will only require a single dose, but it's going to take a long time to vaccinate the United States and we're not so good at vaccinating the country.
I think last year we only vaccinated about half the population for the flu. And if these vaccines are only, let's say 60 to 70 percent effective, we need to vaccinate just about everybody in the country to get that level of herd immunity. So to answer your question, I think it's going to take at least 18 months to do that.
I think we're going to be wearing masks certainly throughout all of next year, maybe into the first part of the following year. We just to get used to that. But things won't be back to normal until we have herd immunity.
CABRERA: And we have to have the right attitude because I think a lot of people have mask wearing fatigue at this point and, you know, social distancing fatigue and yet --
REINER: Right.
CABRERA: -- we just need to do it. It's an unprecedented situation. Just adding weight to this argument that we still are in it for many more months with this pandemic, a new nationwide study of more than 28,000 dialysis patients found just 8 percent were positive for COVID- 19 antibodies.
Now researchers standardized the result, estimating fewer than 10 percent of the U.S. population currently has antibodies. I mean, doesn't that show we are a long way from herd immunity?
REINER: We sure are, which is why we need to continue to do what you just said, social distance, wear masks. This is how we're going to get back to normal.
[17:25:00]
You know, in other parts of the world, if you've been to Asia, you know, places like China and Japan, people wear masks all the time. It's normal there to be in public wearing a mask and it's feeling more normal here in Washington where I live to be out in public with a mask. E
Everyone is wearing a mask. The same thing in New York City. So, Americans have to embrace that, you know, mask up, you know, protect yourself. Protect your neighbors. We can do this and we will do this, then we'll get back to normal.
CABRERA: I saw your tweet the other day saying that just that, mask up and everybody show your mask. We can make it, you know, a real campaign and something that only the cool kids are doing and we all want to be the cool kids.
REINER: (Inaudible) got mask?
CABRERA: Got mask? That's right. REINER: #gotmask.
CABRERA: Dr. Jonathan Reiner, thank you. Thank you, sir. Good to see you. Be well.
REINER: My pleasure, Ana.
CABRERA: This weekend, yet another car was driven into a crowd of protesters. So, is this phenomenon becoming the norm? We'll take a look, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:30:00]
CABRERA: This just in to CNN, terrifying moments inside the home of former NFL football Hall of Fame quarterback Joe Montana. Police say Montana confronted a woman just this weekend who broke into his Malibu house and tried to take his grandchild.
The woman went up to the second floor, grabbed the 9-month-old from a playpen and held the child in her arms. According to this police report, Montana's wife was eventually able to pry the child away. The woman was arrested after fleeing to a nearby house.
Shocking new video shows the woman driving right into protesters. This is in California. Take a look.
(VIDEO PLAYING)
CABRERA: It's not clear what led up to that act of violence, but police say there have been altercations between protesters and counter protesters before that car plowed into the crowd. The driver has been booked on multiple charges.
Police say the two people who were hit suffered serious but non-life- threatening injuries thankfully. CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro is joining us live now. And Evan, this isn't the first time a car has been used as a weapon against protesters.
EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, sadly that's right, Ana. These incidents of cars crashing into protesters are increasingly common. There was one on Friday night in Los Angeles, and I spoke to one of the people who was in that incident, a freelance photographer as well as a researcher who's been studying these incidents. Now, a warning to viewers. What you're about to see has disturbing video in it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIAN MONTERROSA, FREELANCE PHOTOGRAPHER: Everyone gathered around 7:00 p.m. They start marching around 8:00 p.m.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): An hour later came a terrifying moment.
MONTERROSA: They, you know, surrounded the vehicle and to try and get it to stop. And the truck then accelerated and the woman who was directly in front of it was swept off of her feet.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Christian Monterosa, a freelance photographer captured it all.
MONTERROSA: You go into this fight or flight sort of reaction, right. You see this very gruesome thing happening where, you know, a large vehicle is basically driving through a crowd of people. It feels very surreal.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Scenes like this are common now. Ari Weil is a PhD student at the University of Chicago. He's been studying vehicle-involved incidents at Black Lives Matter protests.
ARI WEIL, PHD STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: So far, I've tracked 104 incidents since late May through early September and the vast majority of those occurred at the end of May and early June.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Charges are not often filed, Weil says. And it's not always clear what motivated the driver.
WEIL: There are a few different types of people behind the wheel. At one end are the true clear extremist, the card-carrying members of extremist organizations. A step down are those who are yelling slurs and are clearly racially motivated.
We also have some non-racially motivated ones with just angry drivers. And then there are true accidents like someone whose GPS brings them into a protests.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): But Weil says there are people who like to see cars running protesters down.
WEIL: There is an online environment encouraging these incidents.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Memes about using cars as weapons have spread on the right. Remarkably, some even celebrate the killing of Heather Heyer in Charlottesville, Virginia in 2017.
Some conservative lawmakers have tried to pass laws that protect drivers who claim they're afraid for their lives. Those efforts have failed for the most part, but Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, introduced new legislation this week. The proposal is running into stiff opposition including from some in law enforcement.
(on camera): If laws like that are not written carefully, do you think that we could see more of these cars being weaponized in these protests?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, NATIONAL PUBLIC SAFETY EXPERT: Absolutely you could because with what it will do, it will allow those with nefarious intent. It will give them an escape to be able to use as to why they plowed through a crowd.
[17:35:02]
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Despite the danger, Monterrosa says he is seeing no indication protesters will be pushed off the streets by fear.
MONTERROSA: I think this only adds fuel to the fire. I don't think this stops anybody.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCMORRIS-SANTORO (on camera): Now, Ana, the big concern for researchers like Ari at the University of Chicago in that piece is that these new laws like the one that the governor of Florida has proposed has not passed, actually encouraged people to go in the protests and do this.
He's done research showing that previous efforts to pass laws, all of which mostly failed, did encourage more people to do this. So, it does seem like it's a part of protests that's here to stay for the moment and the concern is it might become more of a thing if lawmakers try to protect these drivers like they have in the past. Ana?
CABRERA: Very disturbing. Evan McMorris-Santoro, thank you. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:40:00]
CABRERA: Breaking news into CNN, "The New York Times" is reporting that it has obtained tax return data going back over two decades for President Trump and his business organization. Now, this includes detailed information from his first two years in office.
And a lawyer for the Trump organization apparently told "The Times" that "most if not all of the facts appear to be inaccurate." But this is just a stunning report including this allegation that in 2016, the year Trump won the White House, he paid just $750 in income tax. And the news that he paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years. Let me get right to CNN White House correspondent John Harwood. What more are you learning, John?
HARWOOD: Ana, this is a stunning report as you indicated that relies on tax returns for both the president personally and for his businesses. It says that both in 2016, when he was a candidate and in 2017, his first year as president, he paid less than $1,000 in federal income taxes, $750 in both years.
It said that the president is facing a tightening cash crunch for his businesses, that within the next four years. He has loan that he has personally guaranteed of $300 million coming due. He may be in the hole, another $100 million if an IRS audit finds that he improperly took a tax refund that has been disputed.
And it explains why the president's been so aggressive about not divesting himself of his business interests as president, and also encouraging the use of his properties himself, taking Secret Service agents to play golf and stay in his hotels, having his Trump hotel in Washington be a gathering place for lobbyists and others seeking influence from the president. It shows the president who is not nearly as wealthy or comfortable as
he claims, and in fact, is using the presidency to make money and keep himself afloat.
CABRERA: Stand by for me, John. I want to bring in CNN's chief media correspondent Brian Stelter. And Brian, obviously this has the potential to change the race. How explosive is this?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Americans are already voting in some states, and most Americans' minds are already made up, but Ana, this is one of the most important stories of the past five years.
Not one of the most important stories if this year, but one of the most important stories of the past five years, because as a candidate, Donald Trump fought hard to shield his tax returns, and as president, he has fought even harder to shield his tax returns from public scrutiny.
So, this is the kind of information that we are going to be hearing about for days and weeks to come, and including on the debate stage in front of 60 million, 70 million, 80 million people on Tuesday night. No doubt Joe Biden will be studying this "New York Times" story and thinking about how to bring it up at the debate.
But I think this goes even deeper than that. The "New York Times" quoting here, "Mr. Trump has been more successful playing a business mogul than being one in real life." This gets to the heart of the president's campaign, five years ago, four years ago, that he was the star of "The Apprentice" who knew how to bail out America.
Well, the "New York Times" sort of cuts to the heart of that. And by the way, "The Times" say this is only the beginning. They say other articles are in the works in the coming weeks and there is an important context here from the "New York Times" saying all of the information they've obtained was provided by sources with legal access to it.
Most of this has not been public before but "The Times" was able to verify it in various ways. So, the president might try to scream fake news but the documents are in the hands of reporters who are able to independently verify it and that is a very big deal.
And look, we're going to see the president throw up smoke bombs. He's going to turn on his fog machines, try to distract from the story, try to lie to the public about other events to try to distract from these revelations.
But the story is right there for all to read and it gets to the heart of his entire presidency, that's why I think it's one of the most important stories of the last five years.
[17:45:02]
CABRERA: John Harwood, is the White House responding at all to this at this moment? HARWOOD: Well, the president is in front of the podium right now,
beginning his news conference. I'm not in the room so I have not seen. The bits that I heard were on other topics, but we'll see when the Q&A starts whether he's going to get some questions.
I imagine that every reporter in that briefing room including our colleague, Jeremy Diamond, is reading that "New York Times" story on their phones while the president's talking.
I do think, Ana, that Brian puts the most significant issue on the table, which is that the president's appeal to the American people has been I am a successful businessman and because of my success, I can do good things for the country.
What this story portrays him as is not a successful businessman, as somebody who pretended to be a financial successful businessman who is actually bleeding financially and is using taxpayers to prop himself up right now.
CABRERA: And John, on top of it, this is also in the context of an ongoing investigation right now into the Trump organization and the way it operates here in New York by New York prosecutors in which we learned just this week a federal judge saying that Eric Trump will in fact need to be deposed before the election.
His lawyers have been fighting that, trying to postpone it until after the election, but this just turned up the pressure not just on the president but on the entire family and organization, does it not?
HARWOOD: No question about it. And remember, also, the prosecutors in -- investigators in New York are seeking the president's tax returns. They've been tied up in litigation, but it looks like they're going to win that litigation and get those tax returns.
The other thing to point out is, you know, we've had investigations, the Mueller investigation and others into the president's conduct on a federal level, and there has been a belief that the sitting president cannot be prosecuted and that custom has been that the successor doesn't try to prosecute someone who is out of office.
But he has, in the case of the New York prosecutors, beyond the federal pardon power, he cannot be pardoned -- he cannot himself in the New York case. He cannot be pardoned by anyone else. And that's a case that's likely to go on whatever happens in the presidential election.
CABRERA: Brian, we often hear of that October surprise that is inevitable in every election race. It's not quite October yet, but this has got to be up there.
STELTER: And I would assume there will be surprises every week from now until November 3rd, but yes, this is absolutely up there and I think it cuts to something really fundamental that is not, you know, you think about the last three and a half years, it's about controversy, it's scandal and all of these sorts of stories that don't stick to Donald Trump because he's so called tough (inaudible) Don like all the usual scammers.
CABRERA: Brian, I apologize for interrupting, we're going to go straight to the White House right now where the president is taking questions.
(BEGIN LIVE VIDEO)
TRUMP: -- if you have anything for Kelly, we'd love to do that. Go ahead, please. Philip.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. Last Wednesday, when you were speaking to the attorney general, you said that you hoped federal judges were watching what was going on with mail-in ballots. Do you hope that Amy Comey Barrett is watching as well?
TRUMP: I do. I'm sure she is. I think everybody is. I think everyone in the country. I think we've made it a very big issue and it's an issue that the Democrats tried to get away with. I don't think they're getting away. I mean, so many reports now of phony ballots, you know, that I don't know if it would have been reported before.
But all of these rallies, you know, with thousands of people last night, as you know, and we're in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. The night before we were in Virginia. I mean, those crowds are, whether it was 35,000 or 30,000 -- those crowds are massive, and that's on very short notice.
All of those people are watching. You know, we have eyes and ears now that we wouldn't have had if we didn't bring it up. So, no, I'm sure she's watching and I'm sure that everybody's looking at it. I think it's just common sense. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For a follow-up, did you discuss the election with her?
TRUMP: No, I didn't. I didn't. I just didn't think it would be appropriate and I've watched over the years as presidents would interview and talk and make a decision on a Supreme Court justice, and I was actually surprised they wouldn't talk about various things like Roe, they wouldn't talk about, you know, things that are very important. They think it's inappropriate to talk about it. I don't know that it's inappropriate, but I've gone by that custom. Go ahead please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank sir. Democrats are arguing that ACB puts in danger not only Roe v. Wade but a number of other decisions. Do you think that they are correct?
TRUMP: No, I don't know. I mean, you know, we took -- I think she's going to rule on the law. I think she's going to be a great justice for many years to come but I can't say. They also bring up health care. I mean, Obamacare is terrible. It doesn't work.
We've made the best of it. We got rid of the individual mandate, which is great.
[17:49:58]
We protect people with -- we are going to protect people with preexisting conditions 100 percent, but if we can end Obamacare and come up with a much better health care system that's much cheaper, much cheaper, and much better, which is what we will do.
On the other hand, if the court rules against, we will manage the system better. But don't forget, we've already essentially gotten rid of Obamacare because we got rid of the individual mandate and it was all based on that.
So, we've done a tremendous amount because the individual mandate was the most unpopular aspect of Obamacare. You had to pay a lot of money for the privilege of -- for the privilege of not paying for bad health care. So, that was a terrible thing for people.
And what we will do is, if we are fortunate enough to get rid of the little remaining in Obamacare, and again, individual mandate, the way I view it, that's no longer Obamacare because that was the central point and we won that. We've already won that, as you know.
But by getting rid of that, it's different. It's a much different thing. The other thing we've done is managed -- here's the story. It's no good. It's too expensive. It's bad coverage. You don't get your doctor. You don't get your plan. All the things that President Obama said you don't get.
And Biden, too, by the way, if Biden even -- I don't think he has any understanding of it, but you don't get your doctor, you don't get your plan. Twenty-eight times President Obama said you get your doctor, you get your plan. It turned out to be a lie. So, here's what we're doing. If we can terminate, we're going to have a much better plan and you will have your doctor, you will have your plan, you will have a lot of things if you don't get with Obamacare.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, do you -- you said this numerous times. Do you really believe that Joe Biden will be on any type of performance- enhancing drugs ahead of the debates or are you just joking?
TRUMP: No, I'm not joking. I mean, I'm willing to take a drug test. I think he should, too because he's had a very uneven -- I watched him with some of the -- when he was with, you know, debating Pocahontas and Harris, who treated him so badly.
But I watched him, and he was out of it, right. And then I watched him against Bernie Sanders, and he was okay. I mean, he wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible. He was okay. A far cry from the way he -- you know what I'm saying. I mean, if you look at some those debates, I said there is no way he can continue. He can't continue.
Then all of a sudden he debated crazy Bernie Sanders and you know what? The truth is he was, he was okay. And I said, how did he go from there with those horrible performances, to where he was okay? And I always joke, but you know, it is true.
He was no Winston Churchill in debating, but he was fine. And people say he was on performance-enhancing drugs. A lot of people have said that. A lot of people have written that. So (inaudible) take a look. Why don't you check -- you can check out the internet. You'll see plenty of people say it. And whether he is or not doesn't matter, but I would love to take a test and he can take a test, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President.
TRUMP: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) debate. Obviously it is coming up. How are you preparing? Is somebody playing Joe Biden in the debate with you or are you doing debate prep at all?
TRUMP: You know (inaudible) and these two gentlemen have been helping. Kayleigh's (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who plays Biden for you? I mean, who --
TRUMP: I will say, maybe a combination of these two and either one of them i about five times smarter than Sleepy Joe, but we had a little debate prep before we came here. I think this whole thing, though, is the big prep. You know, what I do is debate prep every day. I'm taking questions from you people all the time.
I mean, I've taken a lot of questions from you over the last number of years, and he doesn't. I watch the way he was treated on MSDNC on Friday, I guess he did it live. And it was disgraceful. It was an embarrassment. I know her and she's a pretty tough reporter.
The way she was helping him along with those -- it was so obvious what was going on. She was helping him. She was giving him a question and then helping him to answer the question. I know her very well. She doesn't do that. It was embarrassing and people don't talk about it.
I mean, play some of those clips. Play some of those answers. The answers that, where he wasn't able to give an answer and she's pushing him. She's pushing him. They never do that with me. I can tell you. But I don't have the kind of problems he has. So --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many hours -- how many hours would you say you've spent on debate prep --
TRUMP: A little time, I mean, not a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More or less (inaudible).
TRUMP: I'm running a country. I don't, you know, I don't have the luxury. I watched other people over the years. I watched one sort of fairly recently, not too long ago, go into a cabin, lock himself into a cabin and he came out and wasn't very effective.
You know, he had so much, so many things going on. Sometimes you can go too much on that stuff. You no know? Sometime you can go too much. I mean, look, I've had -- [17:55:00]
I've never debated before but then I debated a lot four years ago. And if you look at the polls, those polls that come out, hundreds of thousands of people in "Time" magazine and all of the different polls, I think it's about seven or eight of them, according to those polls I won every debate.
Every single debate, in the primaries and then won the debate with crooked Hillary. I won every debate. I mean, this is -- I felt I did, but this isn't me -- this is the polls. You had "Time" magazine poll. You have this, that, and I guess they take them off the internet or they get phone calls or something.
But according to that, I won every debate. And I felt I did, but I understand the subject. Now, Chris is tough. I hope that Chris is going to be equally tough on Joe Biden, but I watched the young lady, who I won't -- I won't say her name, but it was embarrassing the way she was getting him along.
So, I just asked the question about drugs. I think it's something that would be appropriate because you can't have a president that needs that kind of help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: If you do have a president that needs that kind of help when you've got to deal with Putin and you've got to deal with President Xi of China and you have to deal with Kim Jong-un -- and by the way, do you notice, there is no war going on with North Korea which everyone thought we would be in about one week after I came to be president.
They thought it was going to happen immediately. No war. And that's saving, perhaps, millions of lives. Not just, you know, there were saying, oh, 50,000 people. No, millions and millions of people could have died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) definitely have a tough questions. I (inaudible) going to likely, everybody's been talking about it, is there's a "New York Times" story that came out about an hour ago that says that when you came to the White House, you were paying about $750 a year in federal income tax.
They are not releasing, well, they're not publishing the tax terms. They're not showing that out there, they're saying to protect their sources. In your tax returns, sir does that sound right, that you're paying a couple hundred dollar a year of income taxes?
TRUMP: It's fake news. It's totally fake news. Made up, fake. We went through the same stories. You can ask me the same question four years ago. I had to litigate this and talk about it. Totally fake news.
Now, actually, I paid tax. And you'll see that as soon as my tax returns -- it's under order. They've been under order for a long time. The IRS does not treat me well. They treat me like the Tea Party, like they treated the Tea Party. They don't treat me well. They treat me very badly.
You have people in the IRS, they treat me very, very badly. But they're under order. And when they're not, I would be proud to show you, but that's just fake news. The "New York Times" tried it, the same thing. They want to create a little bit of a story, a little bit of a -- they're doing anything they can. Not only that, that's the least of it. I mean, the stories that I read are so fake, they're so phony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did they tell you this was going to come out today?
TRUMP: No. I didn't know anything about it. I think somebody be said they were going to do a negative -- they always do -- they only do negative stories. I don't think in the -- I used to get good stories in the "New York Times" when I ran for office and I happen to be conservative Republican.
I don't think we've had a good story. They've predicted my loss four years ago. They've then apologized for their bad reporting. Then they predicted the FBI and all of these things. That's now proven to be a hoax. A complete hoax.
They got Pulitzer prizes along with the "Washington Post." They should give all those Pulitzer prizes back because everything was wrong. I mean, it was so bad. Their reporting was so bad they were wrong. It was exactly the opposite.
Now, there are people that should get Pulitzer prizes. Solomon, Carter, I mean, they're not in the business of Pulitzer prizes, but Sean Hannity got it right. Lou Dobbs got it right. Laura got it right. Many people got -- Tucker got it right. There are many people that got it right. I don't know what they get other than a great salary and great ratings. I mean, I don't know what they get.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- federal tax in 2016.
TRUMP: Jordan, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the "New York Times" story. You have to understand that when Americans read that you may have paid only a few hundred dollars in federal income tax per year that seems very low for someone who's a billionaire. So how much are you --
TRUMP: They're saying I paid nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) of how much you actually are paying?
TRUMP: Yes. Basically with -- I paid a lot and I paid a lot of state income taxes, too. The New York state charges a lot and I paid a lot of money in state. It will all be revealed. It's going to come out, but after the audit -- after the -- I'm being -- they're doing their assessment. We've been negotiating for a long time. Things get settled, like in
the IRS, but right now when you're under audit you don't do it, you don't do that. So we're under audit, but the story is a total fake, and all of this -- you know, we had the same exact questions usually asked by the same people.
[17:59:59]
And that took place four years ago. You remember. This was so well- litigated. It's incredible.
