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Pfizer To Submit Vaccine Data To FDA On Young Children; Democrats Divided As Biden's Agenda Hangs In The Balance; Preliminary Results In Germany: Social Democratic Party Wins Most Seats. Aired 1- 2a ET
Aired September 27, 2020 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ROBYN CURNOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, good to have you along this hour. Welcome to all of our viewers here in the U.S. and all around the world. I'm Robyn Curnow live in Atlanta.
So, coming up, it is a big week for Joe Biden and his agenda. U.S. president ignoring critics and maybe the math, predicting his infrastructure bill will pass. And the end of an era election in Germany, preliminary official results showing which party has a leg up in taking Angela Merkel's mantle.
Plus, Pfizer set to submit data to the FDA on how well it's COVID vaccine works in young children. We'll tell you what has to happen next, before they can get vaccinated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN Newsroom with Robyn Curnow.
CURNOW: It is a pivotal week for Joe Biden's agenda, a $1 trillion infrastructure bill was supposed to come up for a vote in the coming hours. It has bipartisan support. But progressive Democrats wanted tied to the much larger social welfare and climate change bill that is still being negotiated. Though the timing of the vote is sliding, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi remains confident.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) CALIFORNIA HOUSE SPEAKER: Let me just say we're going to pass the bill this week, though, I promised that we would bring the bill to the floor that was according to the language that those who wanted this to brought to the floor tomorrow wrote into the rule who will bring the bill to the floor tomorrow for consideration.
JOSH GOTTHEIMER, U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: The bottom line is what's important and the speaker communicated this to all of us yesterday is that we vote on it early this week. And that's going to happen.
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: I don't believe there will be a vote, I mean, the speaker -- JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You don't think there's going to be a vote
tomorrow?
JAYAPAL: I mean, the speaker is an incredibly good vote counter. And she knows exactly where her caucus stands. And we've been really clear on that.
TAPPER: The votes aren't there. She's not going to --
JAYAPAL: The votes aren't there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: All it signs now are reports that President Biden will have to overcome opposition from within his own party to get both measures passed. Arlette?
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ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Biden acknowledge negotiations over his sweeping economic agenda may take the better part of the week as he is hoping to get those two packages across the finish line. President Biden spoke to reporters as he returned to the White House from Camp David on Sunday, and he expressed optimism that these negotiations would be fruitful. Take a listen.
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JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm optimistic about this week. That's going to take the better part of the week, I think.
SAENZ: Now House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had initially promised to hold a vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill on Monday. But on Sunday, Democrats said that that vote likely would not happen.
The House Speaker said that she would not bring a bill up for a vote if the votes were not there. And progressives are still saying that they will not vote for that package, unless there's agreement on the larger $3.5 trillion spending bill, which moderates have said they will not support in that size and scope.
So, the President has a long road ahead as he is trying to bring these negotiations together. Last week, the President hosted lawmakers here at the White House. So, we will see whether he decides to do that in the coming days, as his domestic agenda is really entering crunch time. And one of the most critical stretches of his presidency this coming week. Arlette Saenz, CNN, the White House.
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CURNOW: For all of this, let's turn to Jessica Levinson, she's a Professor of Law at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles. Jessica, lovely to have you on the show. So, this is a huge week. President Biden is optimistic. You heard him there. What happens next? What is what is the critical moment? JESSICA LEVINSON, PROFESSOR OF LAW & GOVERNANCE, LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL: The critical moment is when we all look at Nancy Pelosi and we decide whether or not she actually is or we see whether or not she's actually going to bring something to a vote because I think if we've seen anything from her years of speaker, it's that she's not going to bring something to a vote until she knows it's going to pass.
And if she doesn't know it's going to pass, then we're going to wait a while, so I really do think all eyes are going to be on Nancy Pelosi. That's in part how President Biden has frankly governed. And she has a Herculean task here of trying to keep this caucus together, trying to keep both sides the progressive side saying I don't want to do anything.
And we -- until we go big, with that $3.5 billion package which frankly, I think is a non-starter, and then the moderate saying not so fast. We need to move more slowly. Let's pass what we can.
CURNOW: Yeah, I also let's never underestimate Nancy Pelosi. But that said, was tying these two bills together a mistake?
LEVINSON: You know, I'm going to kind of punt on that and say that'll be a better question to answer or easier question to answer next week.
CURNOW: Next week.
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LEVINSON: Exactly, it's a great question. I wish I knew the answer. And the answer, of course, is when we can look back, we'll say that was a genius move. What incredible strategy, or we'll say that was really the thing that caused all of this to unravel. And a lot of it is, again, going to depend, we come back to Nancy Pelosi, we come back to her skills as a speaker, come back to her ability to keep his caucus together.
CURNOW: Obviously, a lot of focus here is on the politics, on what we're seeing in terms of divisions within the Democrats. But I think it's important, isn't it, just to understand what these bills are about? I mean, the infrastructure bill, for example, we're still driving on roads built by FDR and his new deal and infrastructure push decades ago, there's bipartisan support for the infrastructure bill. It couldn't be sacrificed by -- you know, by game scoring by the progressives. And what's the implications of that?
LEVINSON: So, it could be, I don't think it will be. But it's very important to keep our eyes on the prize and to keep our eyes on reality. And the reality, as you said, is that we are all living in a very, very old house in America, and the plumbing is not good. And the electricity is not great. And we need to repaint.
And that's what the infrastructure bill essentially acknowledges. And that's what everybody across the aisle acknowledges, which is, it's our roads, it's our highways, it's our bridges. It's our rail system. It's all the basic building blocks. If the progressive Democrats can, in fact, torpedo that, then I think it will show an enormous amount of strength on their part. But it will also, I think, be a problem for President Biden going forward, he will, in a sense, be held hostage by that wing of the caucus.
CURNOW: And of course, galvanize Republicans ahead of the midterms. In many ways, it's an own goal, if that's the case. Let's talk then about this, the other bill, I mean, again, sweeping, huge impact for the nation. So set, social safety net climate change as well, you know, from your perspective, what stands out about this, wishful thinking?
LEVINSON: So, this is -- I'm sorry. So, this is what President Biden ran on, right? He said, elect me to office and I will do these things, we are going to revolutionize childcare, we're going to create a much stronger safety net, and I'm going to put climate change as one of my top priorities.
And all of this will mean spending and he was honest about that. We have a Democrat in the White House, the House is controlled by Democrats, the Senate by the slimmest of majorities is controlled by Democrats. And I don't think voters in the midterms are going to be particularly forgiving.
If given all of those things. President Biden was not able to seal the deal, was not able to come through on this, arguably one of his biggest campaign promises, his promise really was elect me and I'm going to heal the soul of this country. And I'm going to change this country by doing a lot of things in this big package. If he can't do this. I think it's a huge blow going into the midterms.
CURNOW: OK, so a big deal be made about the timing this week, even Mr. Biden was saying, you know, listen, it's going to take the better part of this week. So, we're going to all be keeping an eye on the clock. When does the coach turn into a pumpkin? How much time he got?
LEVINSON: Well, I think this is a little bit of a self-imposed deadline. So, there are some deadlines where, obviously, if we think about things like the debt ceiling, a separate issue, if you think about infrastructure, if you think about our ability to pay bills, pay for these programs. Yes, we have real deadlines.
But we've heard him say, we've heard Nancy Pelosi say this week, this week, this week. He can't pull this along for too -- we can't go too much longer until it looks like a failure either way.
CURNOW: Jessica Levinson really appreciate you joining us, always great to get your analysis. Thanks so much. Have a great week.
LEVINSON: You too.
CURNOW: So Republican Senator Tim Scott is blaming the Democrats for these failed negotiations on police reform on a police reform bill. There were nationwide protests and calls for greater accountability and policing after the murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis last year, and Scott said Democrats walked away from negotiations after attempting to defund the police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TIM SCOTT, U.S. SENATE REPUBLICAN: We have about a billion dollars in grant money that goes to police. When you start saying in order to receive those dollars, you must do A, B and C and if you don't do A, B and C, you literally lose eligibility for the two major pots of money, the burn grants and the cop grants. When you tell local law enforcement agencies that you are in eligible for money, that's defunding police. There's no way to spend that.
CORY BOOKER, U.S. SENATE DEMOCRATS: Again, it's unfortunate. You remember on this saga, we got the head of the FOP, the director of FOP, IACP, these are the some of the biggest unions and law enforcement agencies to go with us on a lot of common sensory forms and those folks don't want to defund the police. This is a bill that would have had millions of dollars for police department.
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CURNOW: Pfizer is ready to ask the FDA to authorize use of its COVID vaccine in children ages five to 11. Now Pfizer CEO says this company will be submitting data within days, not weeks. The FDA will then review the data and if they authorize it, vaccine the advisors at the CDC will decide whether it should be recommended for younger children.
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ALBERT BOURLA, PFIZER CEO: If they approve it, we will be ready with our manufacturing to provide this new formulation of the vaccine because the vaccine that the kids will receive which is five to 11, it is a different formulation. It is almost one -- not almost it's 1/3 of the dose that we are giving to the rest of the population.
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CURNOW: Of course, as more Americans get vaccinated, the country will move closer to herd immunity. But according to the CDC, only a little more than 55% of the total U.S. population is now fully vaccinated. The CDC says adequate rates of vaccination could help prevent the rise of new COVID mutations. Here's more from the former FDA Commissioner.
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DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: I think on the back end of this you're not going to see the same level of extreme death and disease that we're experiencing right now after this delta wave courses through the country. The reality is that people -- everyone in the country and most people that end up with immunity from coronavirus.
Some people are going to choose to acquire it through vaccination, some people are unfortunately going to acquire their immunity through no choice by getting infected, this Delta infection isn't going to spare many people because it's so contagious. So, people who choose to get going vaccinated, they're going to be very vulnerable to getting infected through this Delta wave. So, in the back end of this if we're at 90% levels of immunity across the population, which is probably where we'll be, we're probably at 80% right now. You're not going to see the same level of death and disease because most people will be protected with some level of immunity.
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CURNOW: New York Governor Kathy Hochul is preparing to address potential medical staff shortages due to the state's health care vaccination mandate. The deadline for healthcare workers to get vaccinated with at least one COVID shot is Monday. The governor is considering a potential state of emergency which would allow the government to deploy medically trained National Guard members as needed.
And last week, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky broke with her own advisors at the CDC and recommended boosters for Americans who live and work in high-risk settings. And on Sunday, she defended her decision. Take a listen.
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DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: Where there was some real scientific discussion and a scientific close call was for those people who are at high-risk of living, by virtue of where they live or where they work. And because of that close call and because of all the evidence, we reviewed both of the FDA and at the CDC, I felt it was appropriate for those people to also be eligible for boosters.
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CURNOW: You're watching CNN. So still ahead, the first official results from a landmark election in Germany and what it means for the future of Europe's largest economy. We have that key story. Plus, this, a volcano in the Canary Islands has been erupting for more than a week now. Officials say it will continue until Christmas.
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CURNOW: Welcome back. So, we are getting our first look at the early results from the landmark election in Germany. Take a look at the numbers, here they are, they show the left leaning Social Democrats winning the most seats.
Eking out a narrow lead over outgoing chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative bloc. It marks something of a sea change for the SPD which has played second fiddle to Mrs. Merkel's party during recent years. Olaf Scholz, the Social Democratic Party's candidate address supporters on Saturday.
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OLAF SCHOLZ, SPD CANDIDATE FOR GERMAN CHANCELLOR: This is going to be a long election evening, that's for sure. But it's also certain that a lot of voters have ticked off in favor of the SPD because they wanted to change, and they wanted the next chancellor named Olaf Scholz.
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CURNOW: But the CDU's candidate, the party's designated successor to Angela Merkel says he's not ready to throw in the towel. Here, he is addressing supporters on Sunday evening.
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ARMIN LASCHET, CDU CANDIDATE FOR GERMAN CHANCELLOR: We cannot be contented with this result, the outcome of the election is still quite unclear. It's going to be a long night. For first time, I assume that there will be a federal government with most likely three coalition candidates. We from the CDU, we have been obtaining a very clear mandate from our voters. A vote for the CDU is a vote against a left government. Now, it's all about one thing to forge a stable coalition for a strong and modern Germany.
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CURNOW: Building a new ruling coalition is likely to require members of both parties of other parties as well like the greens and the FDP. Leaders say they hope to have a new government in place by Christmas, until that happens Mrs. Merkel will remain in power.
I want to talk about this with CNN European Affairs Commentator Dominic Thomas, he joins us from Berlin. It's fascinating this election, isn't it because it's a new era for Europe. And I do want to talk about that in just a moment. But as we pass these numbers, Mrs. Merkel's party has taken a hit, is that because voters have voted against her and her legacy?
DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: It's a great question. I mean, if you put it in a longer historical context, you can see that just when back in 2005, when Angela Merkel first became Chancellor, her party and the coalition with the SPD, had about 70% of the parliamentary seats that dropped in 2017 to then barely being able to achieve a coalition, and you've seen further erosion in this election. They didn't just not win or come out ahead. They've scored their worst score in the history of their party.
And back to your question. This means that about 76% of the German people did not vote for the CDU. So, yes, there's the departure of Angela Merkel but I think there's also the fact that they failed to find a successor, and that there's been a rise in these other political parties that I think better reflect the pulse of where the German people are today and where their priorities are.
And it is a vote to move away from CDU leadership to put them back into opposition, and to pave the way for a new kind of Germany with a new focus on new issues.
[01:20:21] CURNOW: And that's certainly the case. And it's not just about the politics or even the social shifts that we're seeing, but also about even creating this government, you're going to see the kind of coalition messy coalition politics that perhaps you see in Scandinavia, for example, this so much change coming for Germany.
THOMAS: There is. And where you point to Scandinavia, but it's been really the story. We saw it, you know, with the French election back in -- yeah, exactly across Europe and the Netherlands and these historically long coalition talks, and it also increases the kind of greater fragility.
And without greater fragility, I think you also get an enhanced focus on domestic issues, as this kind of fractured parties' endeavor to appeal to a much broader electorate rather than focus on say, foreign policy. So, in this particular case, it's interesting to see that the SPD, and their two prospective coalition partners, the centrist FDP, and then the Greens are the only three in this election to have actually gained seats, whereas the others have lost seats, and they didn't just gain seats, it looks like they're going to gain about 100, which is a really substantial kind of shift and change.
And I think it really makes that conversation, the only sort of salient coalition talk moving forward. And I don't think the CDU can really be part of that, and that they cannot expect, after 16 years and this appalling performance to continue to play a role moving forward over the next four years.
CURNOW: Yeah, it's certainly an end on so many levels here. I want to go back to that original euro question. So, you're talking here about a fragmentation of German politics in line with patterns we've seen in Europe and elsewhere, it must be said, so what does that then mean for Europe?
Because in many ways, Germany and Mrs. Merkel herself, so East German, so steady, so rock solid, has sort of held up Europe, in many ways. What does it mean now that Germany might be a little bit more loosey- goosey politically?
THOMAS: Yeah. Well, yeah, yes. I mean, that's a great point. I mean, what's so fascinating is without any discussion of the far right AfD, but if you look at the main parties, it's not as if they are anti- European Union, they just have differences on the levels of integration, fiscal policy, and so on.
When it comes to the question of climate, they all agree it's important, it's just about kind of degrees. So, we have to qualify the level of change. But in many ways, the story of Merkel is the story of the first 20 years of the 21st century.
We have to keep repeating this, when she was first became Chancellor, George W. Bush was the president of the United States. And Tony Blair was the U.K. Prime Minister, and she's seen them work with nine of them, you know, during that period, and that 21st century story, particularly when it came to Europe, was about the European Central Bank. It was about the European currency, it was about the so-called
migrants' crisis. And it was about populism and the far right. And in many ways, we've moved on from those questions. There are other issues and concerns.
And I think that therefore puts pressure on this new government, whatever its formation is going to be to start dealing with a whole range of domestic issues in Germany, which one could argue have been put to the wayside as they focused on kind of international policies, stability, and so on.
CURNOW: Like what, give us an example. What have Germans voted up?
THOMAS: Well, they voted on obviously, on the whole question of greenhouse emissions and so on. And Germany, you could argue is behind on that, and that's the priority to varying degrees and absolute priority for the Greens, an important issue for the FDP, but not as urgent, and certainly one for the SPD.
When it comes to infrastructure, it's actually extraordinary that a country like Germany that is so industrially developed, is so poor in the digital environment, connectivity, Internet, and so on. And it has a real problem in terms of labor, labor shortages, training skilled workers, moving into the areas of artificial intelligence, and actually recruiting people for their company.
So that's another issue that's extraordinarily important. But also, schools need attention. The public transport infrastructure grid needs attention. There are a whole range of issues which the German people weighed in on in these different political parties in these different agendas that they went about supporting and that we see in this spread in this proliferation of smaller parties scoring in the teens and low 20s.
CURNOW: So much has been made, and certainly it's going to be a huge part of her legacy about Mrs. Merkel allowing in a million refugees, mostly from Syria a few years back and the sort of political implications of that. Was that an issue particularly around immigration and integration and also because we've seen an increase and a rise of the far right, and how much currency did they get?
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THOMAS: So very little this time around compared to 2017. Yeah. And in 2017, you had, you know, not only did they emerge as the second most important party in the former East, but the third most important party in Germany. Today, they're the fifth party, they dropped.
What's interesting is that in the east, of course, so many of the issues around say immigration identity, Islam also end up focusing around questions of unemployment. But let's not forget that they also did well in the west at the time, when you could argue that income disparity was not the issue that racism and xenophobia were. So, this time around, they've dropped.
My greatest concern going forward is I don't see a path for the CDU going into power this time around. I don't think that the -- their track record, their performance allows for that. The question is, as they essentially politically implode, as they rethink their identity, it is clear that many elements in the CDU are going to want to move towards capturing or recapturing some of that electorate that went to the AfD.
And even though the issue right now has been moved to the backburner, it is likely that it will be given a new kind of oxygen, if that becomes the focus of the CDU, CSU. And we've seen this happen in Britain with Brexit.
We've seen this happen in the French where the French right and the French far right are increasingly closer. And so many of their ideas and agendas have been mainstreamed. And so, I think that's something we need to be looking out for.
CURNOW: Yeah, well, we've seen the narrowing of the narratives. Thanks so much Dominic Thomas in Berlin. Fascinating talking to you. This really is a real change on so many levels. I appreciate it.
THOMAS: Thank you, Robyn.
CURNOW: OK, I want to show you this, look at this dramatic video of a church collapse in the Canary Islands. The building was on the island of La Palma where a volcano has been erupting for more than a week now. The lava and Gulf to the church, causing it to crumble to the ground. Hundreds of homes and businesses are being destroyed since this volcano first erupted. Certainly, dramatic pictures will continue to bring you.
Now officials warned that the volcano in La Palma is getting even more dangerous and experts predict lava explosions will last another three months. So, I want to show you live pictures now. I mean goodness, look at these images. Nearly 7000 people have been evacuated.
This is what they're living near, residents, though are in limbo's flights remain canceled for a second straight day, drones flying near the volcano, which got us these images show that the code has broken which essentially means opening a new explosive event. These are images we will continue to monitor as I said.
So still to come on CNN, family and friends in the U.S. honor the life of 22-year-old Gabby Petito on Sunday as a search for her fiance continues.
Plus, Montana's governor has words of comfort for the victims of the Amtrak train derailment as federal investigators look at what caused the deadly incident. We have the details on that, as well.
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CURNOW: Family and friends of Gabby Petito gathered today to celebrate her life and her sense of adventure. A public memorial service was held on Long Island, New York. It was one week ago that Gabby's remains were found in a national forest in Wyoming. Her heart-broken father spoke at today's memorial.
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JOSEPH PETITO, GABBY PETITO'S FATHER: The entire planet knows this woman's name, and she's inspired a lot of women and a lot of men to do what's best them for them first. Put yourself first. Do it now while you have the time. I couldn't be more proud as a father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Police and the FBI are still searching for Gabby Petito's fiance, Brian Laundrie. Alison Kosik outside the memorial is Holbrook, New York compiled this report. Alison -
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ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This kind of outpouring that we saw for 22-year-old Gabby Petito's memorial service really speaks to how much her story resonates not just in this Long Island community but across the country and around the world.
This was a five-hour memorial service, and during the time that the service was going on there was even a line that snakes around the building. People waiting over an hour to get in and pay their respects, and many people didn't even know Gabby personally but they wanted to come in and give their regards.
Gabby's father gave a eulogy and so did her stepfather. I did speak with her great aunt who talked about the heartbreak.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just so heartbreaking what happened to her, and we love her and we know that she's at peace right now. She was a beautiful, beautiful soul. You could see it. Why do you think all this is happening? She was a beautiful soul. She was a beautiful person.
KOSIK: Inside the memorial were pictures of Gabby that lined the walls, including flowers, sunflowers as well. We're told that sunflowers were her favorite. We learned from the funeral director that people came from as far as Texas and California, flying in and they didn't even know Gabby. Alison Kosik, CNN, Holbrook, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: Thanks, Alison, for that. So U.S. Transportation investigators are on the scene of a deadly train derailment in rural Montana just south of the U.S.-Canada border. They are looking for a cause. Eight cars of the Amtrak passenger trail to derail, killing three people - excuse me - hospitalizing seven others.
Montana's governor called it a heartbreaking event and said all passengers had been accounted for. The railway released a statement on behalf of its CEO, saying, quote, "We have no words that can adequately express our sorrow for those who lost a loved one or who were hurt in this horrible event. They are in our thoughts and prayers." Natasha Chen has more on the disaster.
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NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Officials say at least three people have been killed with more injured as rescue crews work to help passengers of these overturned train cars. The Amtrak Empire Builder 727 had taken off from Chicago headed towards Seattle, a trip Amtrak says on its website that allows passengers to experience the rugged splendor of the American west, including major portions of the Louis and Clark trial.
Instead at around 4 p.m. Mountain Time on Saturday near Joplin, Montana the idyllic scene turned to tragedy.
MEGAN VANDERVEST, PASSENGER ON DERAILED TRAIN: It was probably 10 or 15 seconds of rocking back and forth and tons of noise, and then we came to a stop.
[01:35:00]
CHEN: Megan Vandervest was taking a nap in one of the front sleeper cars that did not derail. Amtrak said there were approximately 141 passengers and 16 crew members. The train had two locomotives and 10 cars in total, eight of which derailed.
VANDERVEST: I would describe the experience as kind of extreme turbulence on an airplane but like louder. And there was kind of a lot of smoke smell.
CHEN: She said there was silence in her car and that passengers evacuated within 10 minutes. It wasn't until she got outside that she realized the extent of the problem. She says while the front cars weren't affected she could see one a couple of cars behind that had derailed and sat between two tracks. Then -
VANDERVEST: The one behind that one had like completely tipped over and fallen over, and that was kind of the most shocking part. It - like immediate shock when we got off because we didn't know anything had - that significant had happened.
CHEN: Photos from her and other passengers show several cars on their side. She said there were also passengers in front sleeper cars who were worried about their loved ones riding in other parts of the train.
VANDERVEST: The mood was very like disconnected. I think a lot of people were just trying to process what happened and not really understanding, especially the people who were in cars that had tipped over. You know, they were kind of coming out of it not even knowing what to think or how to process what just happened to them really.
CHEN: Natasha Chen, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE) CURNOW: Coming up, a return to harsh and ruthless punishment. Dasher's hope for (ph) changed within the Taliban. What it means for Afghanistan and other extremist groups. That story just ahead. Plus we'll look at where the Russian mercenaries will be headed to Mali as the prime minister says the West African country has reached a breaking point.
BUKENI WARUZI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FREE THE SLAVES: This year 2021 is the international year against child labor. My name is Bukeni Waruzi. I am the Executive Director of Free the Slaves, and I am based in Washington, D.C.
Free the Slaves work is focusing on building the capacity of communities affected by modern slavery, so we work across the world whether in bonded labor in India or modern slavery in the fishing industry in Ghana.
Ghana in this project, Taquadep (ph) is one of our local partners, so we provide Taquadep (ph), for example, with financial support to work with us to rescue the kids. So far we've been able to rescue more than 3,000 children and reunite them with their family. It is really for us whoever cares about the issues of slavery we have to mobilize against child travel. And what is happening is a crime. It should not happen. We have to make sure it stops.
So it is really this holistic approach that we need to take. Just make sure we protect, we prosecute, and we prevent this kind of act from happening again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the 100 Club, our look at companies that are 100-years-old or older.
TONY SIMMONS, MCILHENNY COMPANY PRESIDENT & CEO: Make a rub (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's early in the morning, and Tony Simmons is tasting something a bit stronger than coffee.
SIMMONS: I love it (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's CEO of the Mcilhenny Company, better known as the makers of Tabasco Pepper Sauce.
SIMMONS: Line them up (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is his morning ritual, to personally check the pepper mash before it goes on to become the famous sauce that bears the Tabasco label.
SIMMONS: We have a philosophy of how to run our family business to continue the legacy that was started by my great-great-grandfather.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was 1868 when Edmund Mcilhenny decided to go commercial with a pepper sauce concoction he invested and had been sharing with friends and families.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today we make 750,000 bottles of sauce per day on average, and Edmund during his entire career as a pepper sauce manufacturer - and that was a 22-year period - he made about 350,000 bottles. So we make twice as much in a single day as he made during his entire career.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today the Tabasco label is produced in 25 languages and exports it to 195 countries around the world.
CURNOW: So on Tuesday the U.S. Secretary of Defense and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff will face questioning on Capitol Hill about the military withdrawal from Afghanistan.
[01:40:00]
Now since the U.S. exit the country has seen a swift return to strict and brutal Taliban law. A quick warning, the video you're about to see is graphic and may be difficult to watch.
So over the weekend militants put the dead bodies of alleged kidnappers on display in Herat. The Taliban are even cracking down on barber shops now, banning barbers from shaving men's beards or playing music in Helmand Province.
Well, joining me now is Rohan Gunaratna, Professor of Security Studies at Nanyang Technology University in Singapore and Editor of "Afghanistan After the Western Drawdown". Good to have you on the show, sir.
Was there any doubt that the Taliban would change be it 2.0 softer version? They tried to say they would change, but really was it likely?
ROHAN GUNARATNA, PROF. OF SECURITY STUDIES, NANYANG TECHNOLOGY UNIV.: The Taliban ideology has not significantly changed from the period of 1996 to 2001. The international community, the regional countries continue to watch Taliban whether they will return back to beheadings, amputations, and stonings, lootings; the old way they conducted business.
CURNOW: Well they executed people that they said were criminals and hung their bodies in public squares. That sounds familiar and certainly a blast - an awful blast from the past for many Afghans.
GUNARATNA: Yes, absolutely. The people in Afghanistan are suffering from a fear psychosis (ph) whether they will return back to the earlier period the Taliban conducted unspeakable atrocities and also destruction of cultural sites, including the Bamiyan Buddhas attacks against the museums, the archives, and of course, containing the women to their homes, depriving them of education and depriving people of - women going to work.
So that is why Taliban continues to be very closely monitored. And what is important is for the international community to Pakistan and Qatar, two governments very close to them, to work with the Taliban to endure they transform. If not certainly there can be another course of action. CURNOW: What happens next then in terms of Afghanistan as a breeding ground, as a Petri dish for terrorism, you know, ISIS, Al-Qaeda? Do they then take root again as well?
GUNARATNA: There are - there are 40 terrorist organization, Al-Qaeda centric groups, groups that are influenced by Al-Qaeda ideology that have welcomed the return of Taliban. It is a question of time Al-Qaeda will once again grow in Afghanistan. There is a fight between the Islamic State and the Taliban at this point because there's rivalry between Al-Qaeda and the Islamic State, but certainly Afghanistan has now become a very important safe haven for Al-Qaeda.
CURNOW: What can be done to stop that?
GUNARATNA: The international community should create an intelligence alliance from the UAE to Japan, work with China, work with Russia, work with neighboring countries to ensure that Afghanistan is not used as a staging pad to mount attacks against other countries. The United States, although has withdrawn, should take an initiative in this matter.
U.S. policy now is mounting operations over the horizon, but I believe that it is very important for the U.S. to once again work with allies and with friends and other countries in the region to ensure that Taliban does not return back to what it was.
CURNOW: Rohan Gunaratna, thank you very much for your analysis. So Russia's Foreign Minister says Mali plans to hire private Russian mercenaries to assist with security. Mali's Prime Minister says the African country is at a breaking point. He spoke at the U.N. of the need for a new security strategy, citing rampant terrorism and criminal violence.
Let's go straight to Johannesburg. David McKenzie is following this story. This is - this is a huge deal. Tell us what we know about this.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well it is a big deal. Robyn, good morning. And you know, t he - it was just confirmation really of rumors swirling for some weeks and months now that the Malian government was looking to contract the notorious paramilitary mercenary group, the Wagner Group, to come into that country and in their mind secure that region in the north that is continues to have very severe security issues and a great deal of impact to the civilian population.
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Here's Sergey Lavrov, the Foreign Minister, try to wash his hands of direct connections. Take a listen.
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SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Mali has approached Russian private military companies. We have nothing to do with that. This is an activity which has been carried out on a legitimate basis. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: Now there has been extensive reporting, including from CNN, showing close ties of the Wagner Group to the Kremlin, so, of course, people take that with a pinch of salt.
But you have this very direct criticism from the Malian Prime Minister squarely at the French, Robyn, saying that the security situation is untenable, that they feel the French are abandoning them in their fight in the Sahel region, though it must be said the French have themselves saved that government several times particularly since 2012.
And the sense that the French government is going to be withdrawing troops in the coming months and moving to a multilateral force, that certainly has provided an impotence to higher potentially Wagner mercenaries, which has obviously geopolitical implications. Robyn -
CURNOW: It most certainly does. So but how does Mali's own - you were just talking about this statement from them. How does Mali's own government instability as you said, the French have bailed them out a number of times in recent years, affecting the security situation, so isn't their criticism of France somewhat ironic?
MCKENZIE: That it totally ironic because the Mali - well, there's been two coos in recent months in Mali, the military's in control. It was a previous period of instability in 2012 which led to much of the country to be taken over by Tuareg insurgency and then by groups linked to Al-Qaeda and ISIS.
This band of instability stretching from Mali, Burkina Faso, Chad, and into other parts of the Sahel is a massive headache for that region not only because of the terrible terror that is inflicted on civilians there, of course, but the broad implications.
France currently has several thousand troops as part of Operation Barkhane. They are based in neighboring Chad but heavily involved in the border region and specifically in Mali. I think the French government has felt given the recent coos and the domestic pushback in France about this operation that it's time to ease out of this conflict and move towards a European union force.
Interestingly the top U.S. Commander for AFRICOM, the African Command, was in that region - not in Mali specifically - in recent days. So there's a shuffle of the deck happening, and western powers certainly will be deeply uncomfortable with the Wagner Group moving into Mali. They've had influence and operations in Mozambique, in the Central African Republic, in Libya, and their track record is mixed at best and certainly a way for the Kremlin to get entrenched in these regions. Robyn -
CURNOW: Yes. I mean, that was going to be my next question. What does this mean practically on the ground? Is it going to be then an expansion I suppose of Russian influence in African like we saw during the Cold War, and then what is the overlap with these mercenaries and their operations with say the French or even the Americans in the region?
MCKENZIE: It's very complicated and quite messy and you currently have a big U.N. force as well operating in that region.
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CURNOW: Yes. Of course.
MCKENZIE: One of the deadliest in terms of impact on those Blue Helmet soldiers over the past few years. The bigger issue here is that this entrenched instability in the Sahel region just doesn't appear to get better, and you've had countries in a way look at the simplistic metaphor but fall like dominoes to this instability increasingly Burkina Faso, which was a more stable country, is seeing this.
The big fear is not only these countries in the Sahel face this issue but that it bleeds over into the Gulf of Guinea states like Ivory Coast, even Ghana and other countries that haven't seen this kind of insecurity, but it's a big mess and the Wagner Group coming in with advisors could just make it even messier.
CURNOW: David McKenzie, thanks so much. Always good to speak to you. Live there in Johannesburg.
So coming up on CNN, it was a dominate performance for Team USA on the links here. What they have to say after winning gold right at home (ph).
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RAINER LANG, R&D DIRECTOR, VAILLANT HEAT PUMPS: More than 90 percent of the energy demand of our homes is coming from heating, cooling and domestic water supply. And therefore, we know how big the benefit of modern and environmental-friendly heating technology can be. Vaillant's portfolio has been enlarged a lot to mostly as a renewable technology. We have developed this new reheat pump (ph) to ensure the heating, cooling, and hot water at every ambient weather condition we can have.
We took a natural refrigerant. The carbon footprint of this new refrigerant is 700 times less than what we had during the last decade, and we are now ready to use the heat pumps in the existing houses. With this we will give massive environmental benefit to the climate.
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CURNOW: Lewis Hamilton is now the first Formula 1 driver to reach 100 career wins. He won a dramatic Russian Grand Prix on Sunday. The seven-time world champion took the lead late in the race to earn the checkered flag. F1 legend, Michael Schumacher, was the old-time leader in wins at 91 until Hamilton passed him last year. And the American Golf Team is celebrating a historic victory in the Ryder Cup. Team USA thrashed Europe, 19 to 9 in Wisconsin on Sunday. The result was never really in doubt since the U.S. players had been so dominant in the first few days. Patrick Snell was at the course, and he has more. Patrick -
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PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORTS: So the pain of Paris three years ago is now officially over for this exciting and all-conquering TEAM USA, a historic and record 19 points to 9 victory, and this party is just getting started.
BRYSON DECHAMBEAU, 2 WINS, 1 TIE FOR TEAM U.S.: This is possibly way better than any other tournament that I've ever won in my entire life. Just the group of people, the collective game of golf. It's so much bigger than just a single tournament. It's about people coming together and doing something special for the game of golf.
TONY FINAU, 2 WINS FOR TEAM U.S.: This is amazing, and to be a part of - you know, a part of this group of amazing, talent players and personalities has been a lot of fun, so I'm happy for Captain Stricks and happy to be a part of this team.
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STEVE STRICKER, CAPTAIN, TEAM U.S.: A lot of these guys have played a lot of golf with each other. They've grown up with each other. It's a special group of kids, and yes. It was fun to be a part of it all this week, especially here in Wisconsin.
IAN POULTER, ZERO POINTS FOR TEAM EUROPE: I've only lost one other one, and it's painful.
LEE WESTWOOD, 1 WIN FOR TEAM EUROPE: How much it hurts and how much you despise it and how much you can't wait for it to come around in two years time to win it back.
SNELL: So for Team Europe there was much to reflect upon, and that is putting it mildly ahead of the next Ryder Cup in Rome two years from now. Whilst for Team USA it is, indeed, time to celebrate, it's the first time in almost four decades they can celebrate back-to-back Ryder Cup triumphs on home soil. At the Ryder Cup, I'm Patrick Snell, CNN.
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CURNOW: Thanks, Patrick, for that. In the world of U.S. football a history-making moment on Sunday as the Baltimore Ravens Justin Tucker set an NFL record with, wait for it, a 66-yard game-winning field goal. You've got to take a look at this.
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GREG GUMBEL, NFL ANNOUNCER: On its way. It bounces off the cross bar and it's good! ADAM ARCHULETA, NFL ANNOUNCER: Oh my goodness!
GUMBEL: Oh my goodness!
ARCHULETA: Oh my! Did that just happen, Greg?
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CURNOW: Boom. That was amazing. Baltimore had been trailing by a point with only three seconds left in the game when Tucker kicked the field goal. He beat the previous record by two yards.
Thanks so much for watching. I'm Robyn Curnow. I'm going to hand you over to my colleague, Rosemary Church. She picks up things from here. More CNN, of course, continues after the break. Enjoy.
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