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Long-Concealed Records Show Trump's Chronic Losses, Years of Tax Avoidance; Many in Mexico Without Running Water as COVID-19 Cases Rise; Judge: TikTok Can Still Be Downloaded in U.S.; Trump and Biden Preparing for Presidential Debate. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired September 28, 2020 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome to, you, our viewers around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber, and we start with major breaking news.

[00:00:29]

During the 2016 presidential debate with Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump said he was smart for not paying taxes. Well, by that definition, "The New York Times" reports President Trump has been smart for 10 out of 15 years, beginning in 2000.

The explosive report details years of financial losses, and hundreds of millions of dollars in debts that he must repay, in the next few years. It also lists specific examples of business deals. That is, properties with lobbyists and foreign officials that are in potential conflict with Mr. Trump's position as president.

Now, in a news conference Sunday, he rejected the report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And it's fake news. It's totally fake news. Made up. Fake. We went through the same stories. You can ask me the same questions. Four years ago, I had to litigate this and talk about it. Totally fake news.

You know, actually, I pay tax. And you'll see that, as soon as my tax returns -- it's under audit. They've been under audit for a long time. The IRS does not treat me well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Now, being under audit doesn't preclude a person from releasing tax returns publicly. John Harwood has more on the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the eve of the first presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, a bombshell report in "The New York Times," reporting that the president paid only $750 in federal taxes the first year he was president, and a broader picture, of a president under financial pressure, who is relying on his status as president to keep himself afloat, financially.

This "New York Times" report says that, in ten of the previous 15 years before he became president, Donald Trump paid no income taxes. It says that he has $300 million in loans, that he has personally guaranteed, coming due within the next four years. Potential loss of another $100 million from a disputed tax refund that he received from the IRS. Paints a picture of a president who is, therefore, using his properties to attract business from lobbyists, from the U.S. government, from foreign officials, all because of the tightening financial squeeze that they depict him as being under right now.

Now, this is a president, of course, who sold himself to the American people as a highly successful businessman, and said his success was the reason why they should hire him as president, to turn the country around.

This report casts doubt on whether he had that success at all, whether he's a millionaire, as he has claimed, and whether or not it shakes his own voters. Many of those small donors, those blue-collar voters, who support the president, they may not defect from him.

But this report takes away time, which is the one commodity the president doesn't have very much. He just has a few weeks left in the general election. He's trailing significantly nationally, and in battleground states, to Joe Biden. And the more time he has to spend defending himself against discharge, the more difficult it is for him to come back, and you can bet that he's going to be defending it on that debate stage with Joe Biden on Tuesday night.

John Harwood, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Two authors who have written about Mr. Trump say "The Times" report points the enormous financial pressure the president is under, and how it's affecting his public policy while in office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, AUTHOR, "THE MAKING OF DONALD TRUMP": This suggests that Donald Trump needs the presidency right now because of the bills he has coming due, putting more than $300 million of loans he personally guaranteed. The very issue that caused him to have a financial collapse in 1990, when I was covering him. Only, then, he had $3 billion in personally guaranteed loans he could not pay back.

TIMOTHY O'BRIEN, SENIOR COLUMNIST, "BLOOMBERG OPINION": You have, in the numbers, a portrait of a president as a con man and a long-term grifter. Donald Trump is probably the most successful conman in modern history, and he's wound up in the White House. And he's been perverting public policy and corrupting people around him, including members of his own cabinet and his own children, in service of that. And -- and when you see what's in these numbers, it -- that can't be denied any longer. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: All right. To discuss all this, let's bring in CNN contributor John Dean. He served, of course, as President Richard Nixon's White House counsel, and he's coauthor of the new book, "Authoritarian Nightmare: Trump and His Followers."

Thanks for this. First, just want to get your reaction to what we learned about President Trump's taxes and his businesses. What were the most important revelations to you?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Kim, I think overall, it confirmed our suspicion. I thought that Brian Stelter of CNN, our media reporter, put it well. He said it showed that the -- the emperor has no clothes. And it confirmed that. There's no question about that.

So that was the -- that was what it nailed down. I think buried in the story are lots of revelations. And it appears that the time -- "Times" has just started. They're going to have follow-up reporting on this.

BRUNHUBER: Yes. You know, some people may make light of the, you know, $70,000 claimed for haircuts, even the extent to which he constantly boasts about an empire that's financially a mirage, as you say, but the -- there are so many serious questions raised here, including to whom he owes money, and how far he might go to get himself out of debt.

DEAN: Well, "The Times" did note, in their overview, that they saw no evidence that Russians were the money behind Trump. So they sort of dismissed that. But obviously, he does owe somebody a lot of money.

To me, the most interesting revelation buried in the story was that the -- the fact that he's under audit and has been unable to get out of that audit for the last almost 10 years. It is because he -- he got back over $70 million in a refund. And when you get a refund that large, the IRS has the right to audit it. And when it's over $2 million, the joint tax committee of Congress has the right to review it.

They're right in the middle of this. This is five members of the Senate, five members of the House, who are right involved in this. And this is new to me. I didn't know this at all. And you better believe, they're taking a close look at it.

BRUNHUBER: Absolutely. Well, you know, the Biden campaign also taking a very close and interested look at this. They just released their first ad showing, you know, how much they say the average worker in different industries pays annually in Texas, and then, you know, shows Donald Trump, $750.

You know, I spoke to a few Republicans that I know who support the president, you know, on various levels. They -- they either didn't believe this or didn't care.

Now, you've written about his followers. I don't expect this to change their minds, necessarily. But do you think this will resonate with -- with undecided voters out there?

DEAN: It could affect the undecided voters, those are very few right now. Most people are committed on Trump.

When I looked at his followers -- and that's the reason I did the book -- was to try to understand why the media, for one, had not covered a large body of science that's been looking at the kind of people who are attracted to Donald Trump. The authoritarian figure that attracts a certain type of follower.

And they're not going to be affected at all, Kim. They -- they're going to stay with him. This is just another revelation. They will reject it. They'll take his word for whatever he says and move on.

But I think there are a few people on the fence that this could affect.

BRUNHUBER: Well, before we let you go, I want to go back to your former boss, President Nixon. You know, back then, presidents didn't release their tax returns, and then, I think, in 1973, it was reported that Nixon only paid some, you know, $800 or so in taxes. So take us through that scandal and then the precedent it set.

DEAN: Well, that's actually mentioned in "The Times" story. They made a reference -- they allude to it.

And what happened is that -- that Nixon donated -- he had $200,000 worth of income, and he donated his vice-presidential papers, and came up with a nominal less than $1,000 tax liability as a result of it.

When they audited it, what happened, they found he had not donated the papers in a timely fashion. The Congress also, then, removed, after Trump -- after Nixon had done this, the right to use personal presidential and vice-presidential papers as a gift that they -- was deductible, which was used by a lot of people. Lyndon Johnson actually recommended to him to do that when they were -- during the transition between the Johnson presidency and the Nixon presidency.

But anyway, Nixon did turn over his returns, and he volunteered them. The joint tax committee that I just mentioned is the committee that did the audit on him. And they're the ones that came up with the deficit, if you -- particularly the dubious nature of the -- of the write-off he had taken. So he, indeed, ended up paying some taxes on that.

BRUNHUBER: And then that set the president -- precedent, you know, to this day, of presidential nominees, you know, giving in their -- their tax returns until Donald Trump.

Listen, thank you so much for speaking to us, John Dean. We appreciate it.

[00:10:07]

DEAN: Thanks, Kim. BRUNHUBER: Well, in a statement Sunday, the House Ways and Means

Committee chairman, Richard Neil, said this: "Today's report underscores the importance of the Ways and Means Committee's ongoing lawsuit to access Mr. Trump's tax returns and ensure the presidential audit program is functionally effectively, without improper influence." And he went on to say, "I remain confident that the law is on the committee's side and that our request meets the standard the Supreme Court set with its July 2020 rulings. Our case is very strong, and we will ultimately prevail."

So all of this is coming right in the middle of a fiercely contentious debate about the president's ultraconservative pick to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the Supreme Court.

On Sunday, Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden called the rush to seat Judge Amy Coney Barrett an abuse of power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The Senate has to stand strong for our democracy. They must not act on this nomination until the American people finish the process they've already begun of selecting their president and their Congress. And the voters, in my view, are not going to stand for this abuse of power. And if we're going to call ourselves a democracy, their voices must be heard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Now, the Senate Judiciary Committee is expected to approve Judge Barrett's nomination in less than a month, setting up a full Senate vote by the end of October.

Meanwhile, the president keeps pushing false rhetoric about widespread mail-in ballot fraud, telling the media on Sunday that he hopes Judge Barrett is paying attention to potential cases. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I do. I'm sure she is. I think everybody is. I think everyone in the country. I think we've made it a very big issue. And it's an issue that the Democrats tried to get away with it. I don't think they're getting away. I mean, so many reports now of phony ballots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Anticipating President Trump will contest the election, U.S. House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi sent a letter to her Democratic colleagues, urging them to focus on winning state delegates. She wrote, "How many state delegations the Democrats win in the upcoming election could determine who our next president is."

All right. With me to talk about how all of this can legally play out is vice dean of the USC Law School, Franita Tolson.

Thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate it. So I want to put aside the largely made-up issue of mail-in ballot fraud, but there are real voting issues that might crop up: long delays, even access to ballots. We've seen the Trump campaign asking -- you know, I'm quoting here. What is it -- every doable, every able-bodied man and woman to join Army for Trump's election security operation.

We've already seen people physically blocking access to polling places. How much litigation do you expect to see in the days and weeks before and after the election?

FRANITA TOLSON, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: First, let me say thank you so much for having me. And the answer is lots. There will be a ton of litigation.

BRUNHUBER: We seem to be having a problem with your audio. Sorry, go ahead.

TOLSON: I'm sorry. Can you hear me now?

Oh, OK. No, thank you so much for having me.

So I was just pointing out that there will be a lot of litigation. In any normal presidential election cycle, you already have a lot of litigation. People sue over various issues, access issues. You have lawsuits on election day.

And so I think this year will be a little unusual just in the volume of lawsuits. We'll see a lot of litigation over various issues, because people are voting by mail in unprecedented numbers.

BRUNHUBER: Now, President Trump has said, basically, he needs a new Supreme Court pick in case the election results end up before the courts. Democrats are now calling for Amy Coney Barrett to recuse herself, should she be confirmed and that election scenario play out. Is that a possibility and would you expect her to recuse herself?

TOLSON: Well, it's -- it's hard to say. I do think, because of the politics and the partisanship it overshadows any discussion of the merits, the timeline, calls everything into question with respect to her being confirmed. And so I think it's a difficult political situation.

But you have to remember, the lineup of the court as it now stands, there are five conservative justices and three so-called liberal justices. And so functionally, there is nothing magical about the number 9. Right? So even if we had eight justices, just as we had in 2016, there is some dispute that could end up before the court, and if -- you know, if Judge Barrett is confirmed, she could recuse. But I don't think that is required.

But it could sort of overshadow her appointment. Because she could be painted as partisan, particularly if -- if it comes down to her vote, and she votes in favor of -- of an election dispute that favors the president. It could, you know, call into question the -- the -- excuse me, the legitimacy of the court, in a way that's problematic and sort of undermines its standing in our system.

[00:15:07] BRUNHUBER: You've written that the Supreme Court has been horrible on voting rights this year. Presumably, with a larger conservative majority, that won't improve.

TOLSON: No. So it's likely that, you know, that will just further cement a conservative majority that has been downright hostile to -- to voting rights and to access, and to make it easier for people to vote, especially because we're in the middle of a once-in-a-lifetime global pandemic.

So I don't anticipate that adding Judge Barrett to the court will make that any better.

BRUNHUBER: What specifically do you think has been so -- so egregious in the last year or so that we've seen from the court?

TOLSON: So during the primary season, there was quite a bit of litigation. What stands out is the RNC versus DNC decision from this past April, where a lot of voters in Wisconsin did not receive their absentee ballots in time to -- to vote for election day, and the court basically made it difficult for the lower court to adopt a remedy that would make it easier for those voters to cast their ballots.

And so people had to show up on election day in the middle of a pandemic in order to cast a ballot. And so the court has also issued, you know, shorter opinions, where they have upheld decisions by lower courts that make it difficult for people to vote.

So just in the last, you know, five to six months, the court has really shown that it has not viewed the pandemic as a good excuse to make it easier for people to vote.

BRUNHUBER: All right. So many issues to -- to wade through in the coming weeks, and we look forward to getting your -- your take on many of them. Thank you so much, Franita Tolson in Los Angeles. We appreciate it.

TOLSON: Thank you.

BRUNHUBER: Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, well, it's been less than a year since the coronavirus began spreading around the world, and already we're approaching a horrible milestone. We'll talk about that.

Plus, tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan are flaring up again with deadly results. We'll explain what's behind the latest unrest. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRUNHUBER: Global coronavirus deaths will soon reach one million, but the U.S. president keeps incorrectly insisting that the pandemic is winding down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're rounding the turn. They hate what I say that, the opposition. But we are. We're rounding the turn on the -- on the pandemic and very incredibly, we have some of the great vaccines, great companies, and we're going to have different vaccines. Very powerful vaccines, great vaccines, and therapeutics. But this is all happening very, very soon, so we're in great shape.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Yes, I don't think so. As you can see here on the map, cases are trending up across much of the U.S. It had two days this past week with more than 50,000 new cases.

[00:20:03]

And just Friday, New York saw daily cases above 1,000 for the first time since June. Florida just surpassed 700,000 coronavirus cases.

Now, top expert Dr. Anthony Fauci warns that the U.S. is still in the first wave of the virus, saying infection rates will likely rise throughout the fall and winter.

Now, there is good news coming from Australia's Victoria state. Health officials recorded only five new infections within 24 hours, and that's the lowest daily increase in more than 100 days.

Now the state's premier says they're going to start easing lockdown restrictions. John Hopkins University ranks Mexico seventh in the world for the most coronavirus cases, and while the Mexican government is urging the public to wash their hands, well, many simply don't have running water.

CNN's Matt Rivers reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mexico's capital city's teams with skyscrapers and wealthy neighborhoods. On a clear day, you can see them from the San Gregorio (ph) neighborhood just a few miles away, but here, there is no wealth. There's not even running water.

That's why Victoria Arias (ph) Lopez has to come down to these barrels. The government leaves her four of them every 15 days, which isn't safe to drink.

(on camera): (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VICTORIA ARIAS (PH) LOPEZ, MEXICO CITY RESIDENT: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

RIVERS: So what she's saying there is that, of the buckets that she has, the water basically runs out in, maximum, three days.

(voice-over): A big part of her tiny salary goes to buying bottled water to drink, and as for clothes, the washing station is a 15- minute-drive away, where a government tap helps rinse away suds.

"We don't have a lot of water," says Senora Lucero (ph). "Everyone around here suffers from a lack of water." (on camera): So many people in this area don't have running water, and

yet, you see government campaigns all over the place, saying, "Lavate las nanos constantement," "wash your hands constantly." And that's good advice during a pandemic, but if you don't have running water, how exactly are you supposed to do that?

(voice-over): Government data shows nearly 20 percent of the city doesn't have access to water every day, predominantly in its poorest parts. And they are among the areas that have suffered the most cases, as the virus continues to spread.

"The government doesn't get it," says Victoria. "There is water in the rich parts but not out here."

She lives in this house with 12 other people. They collect rainwater as it runs down from a dirty roof, settling in these buckets. It's too dirty to drink or wash with.

"They say wash your hands often. Well, we don't have enough water to do that. It's impossible," she says.

Or it was. She won a contest, and we visited on the day when nonprofit Isla Urbana (ph) was installing a new filtration system that will make the water clean enough to wash with, and with one more filter, safe enough to drink. That means less going out, more handwashing, and better protection from a virus.

It might not look like it, but this is a luxury, one most of her neighbors don't have.

Matt Rivers, CNN, Mexico City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: New clashes between Azerbaijan and Armenia over a disputed territory have reportedly left several people dead. This includes at least 16 military members from the contested region.

Both countries have imposed martial law and are blaming each other for the fighting. Armenia has released this video, claiming to have destroyed Azerbaijani tanks after the country allegedly launched missile attacks on civilians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNA NAGHDAIYAN, ARMENIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESWOMAN: Early in the morning, around 7 a.m., Azerbaijanian forces launched large-scale aggression, including missile attacks along the line of contact with Artsakh and Nagorno Karabakh, and they are targeting civilian population and civilian infrastructure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Azerbaijan is also accusing Armenia of attacking civilians. An official posted these images, which purportedly show the aftermath of Armenian attacks. Now, both nations have long been at odds over the disputed territory.

Nagorno Karabakh sits inside Azerbaijan but is controlled by ethnic Armenians. Turkey has weighed in on the latest fighting, saying it backs its long-term ally, Azerbaijan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IBRAHIM KALIN, TURKISH PRESIDENCY SPOKESMAN: Turkey remains fully in solidarity with Azerbaijan. We remain committed to supporting Azerbaijan by all means possible. We are very close two nations. In fact, we consider ourselves to be one nation with two different states.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: It was the first weekend since the secret inauguration of Belarus president Alexander Lukashenko, and it wasn't a quiet one. In Minsk, the country's capital, tens of thousands of people took part in demonstrations against his election, saying the results weren't legitimate.

It's the 50th day of such protests, which have gained international support. The European Union and the United States say they also don't recognize Lukashenko as the country's legitimate leader.

[00:25:12]

But police were out in force across the country, detaining dozens of people and using tear gas in at least one city to clear the streets. Protesters have been turning out by the thousands each week to support an opposition candidate now living in exile and demand an end to Lukashenko's regime. Some say they won't stop until there's real change in the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): To be honest, we want peace, not violence. So that the authorities finally understand that there is no longer the old Belarus, which was scared and patient.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: The federal judge says TikTok will still be available in U.S. app stores for now. It's a temporary win for the social media giant, which was set to be banned from the U.S. just hours before the ruling.

TikTok's Chinese parent company is working to sell parts of its U.S. operations to American companies in order to appease the Trump administration.

Well, our Selina Wang is in Hong Kong for us.

Selina, how much of a win is this for TikTok?

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kim, this is just a temporary win for TikTok. This ruling from the judge does not stop the restrictions set on TikTok in the U.S. on November 12.

But what this does do is buy some time for TikTok to reach an agreement with U.S. and Chinese regulators over this potential deal with Oracle and Wal-Mart.

But that is a big "if." If they can reach that agreement, this entire ban would be lifted, but some sticking points remain, especially around this question of who is going to owe TikTok. We've seen conflicting statements from the companies themselves around this. Oracle saying that ByteDance is going to have no ownership in this new entity called TikTok Global. That would be headquartered in the U.S.

Meanwhile, ByteDance saying it would still hold an 80 percent stake.

But for now, Kim, TikTok can breathe this temporary sigh of relief since it was facing catastrophic economic loss and that, even if the app were just banned for even two months in the U.S., up to half of its users in the U.S. may never come back.

BRUNHUBER: All right, thank you so much for that. Selina Wang in Hong Kong. Appreciate it.

Well, just weeks before the U.S. election, a bombshell report on President Trump's income taxes. His denial and the Biden campaign's response coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRUNHUBER: Returning now to "The New York Times" report that President Trump didn't pay any taxes for 10 of the previous 15 years before 2016. He paid just $750 in taxes the year he won the election and, again, the first year of his presidency.

[00:30:11]

A report said Mr. Trump has had more success playing a business mogul than actually being one. President Trump dismissed the news as fake news. And of course, it's sure to come up in Tuesday's debate with Democratic challenger Joe Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BEDINGFIELD, BIDEN DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER AND COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I mean, look, it's the latest reminder how clear the choice is here between -- in this race, between Park Avenue and Scranton.

You have, in Donald Trump, a president who spends his time thinking about how he can work his way out of paying taxes, of meeting the obligation that every other working person in this country meets every year. You know, with Joe Biden, you have somebody who has a completely different perspective on what it means to be a working family in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Now, let's go back to 2012. Mr. Trump was actually critical of presidents who reportedly paid lower income taxes. In a tweet, he slammed then-President Obama for his tax returns, writing, "@BarackObama, who wants to raise all our taxes, only pays 20.5 percent on a $790,000 salary."

But in 2016, when Mr. Trump was called out for not paying his own taxes, he not only defended his actions, well, he bragged about them, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license. And they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax. So --

TRUMP: That makes me smart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Catherine Rampell is a CNN commentator and "Washington Post" opinion columnist, and she joins me now from New York.

Thanks for doing this. So first of all, what did we find out that we didn't already know?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, there were a lot of things that we suspected to be the case. Right?

Trump, in contravention of decades of norms, had not voluntarily released his tax returns. A lot of people suspected that that meant either he wasn't as rich as he said he was. Maybe he was paying little to nothing in -- in tax liabilities, and maybe he was cheating on his taxes.

What "The New York Times" has reported suggests all three of those things are true. While they do not directly measure -- tax returns would not show what his net worth is. They do show that Trump at least reported to the IRS enormous losses. That is how he was able to have minimal, if not zero, tax liabilities in many of the years for which they had tax returns.

And how was he able to report those huge losses? Some combination of potentially bad business decisions, businesses that lost money, as well as what I might call suspect deductions that would reduce his tax liability. Deducting things like the criminal defense attorney expenses for his son. Or the real-estate taxes paid for what appears to be a vacation home, claiming that that was, in fact, a business expense, et cetera.

So what we've learned is that there's a little bit more flesh to put on the suspicions that many had already had about what he was keeping so close to the chest.

BRUNHUBER: But his narrative, essentially, has just been that he's successfully gaming the system. Winning, in other words. RAMPELL: Right. He has said for years -- well, he's given many reasons

about why he would not give his tax return -- why he would not release his tax returns. But he did say, Look, if you find out that I didn't pay very much -- and in previously leaked tax returns, that showed the same thing -- that's because I'm smart.

Now, it is true that we have a phenomenally complicated tax system, that there are plenty of loopholes that are perfectly legal to take advantage of.

However, there's a lot of relatively dodgy things that he seems to have done over the years. And again, you know, without -- I haven't seen the tax returns myself. I'm just going off of what was reported by "The New York Times reporters," and a lot of it looks like fraud. Or at least would be red flags for fraud.

One could understand why the IRS has been auditing him repeatedly for many years, because at the very least, he's done very aggressive things. At worst, they may be on the wrong side of the law.

BRUNHUBER: Most worrying, I suppose, for voters is the potential for conflict of interest because of his reliance on those properties and groups seeking favors with him, paying vast sums to stay there. And also the huge debts coming due and questions about to whom he might be beholden.

RAMPELL: Right. One of the key questions, one of the reasons why so many of us wanted to see his tax returns wasn't just, you know, to embarrass him. Maybe he's not as rich as he says he is, et cetera. But because there is a legitimate question about whether he has been running the executive branch in the public's interest or his own.

[00:35:07]

And these returns, again, to the extent that we have returns or there is material from the time around when he ran for office and since was inaugurated and became president, reveal that he's been getting a lot of money from foreign sources. That there was a huge rush of new memberships at his clubs like Mar-a-Lago. Potentially, it seems, at the very least, seeking access to the president. You know, a much bigger increase in new initiation fees even before the fees themselves went up. He was getting a lot more revenues from that.

And the -- the reporting also revealed, as you point out, that Trump owes a ton of money. Not only is he getting money from people who potentially may want to have some influence on policy, but he potentially owes a lot of money who could -- to people who could twist his arm in some way.

BRUNHUBER: Well, we'll have to see how this plays out. Thank you so much, Catherine. Appreciate it.

RAMPELL: Thank you.

BRUNHUBER: President Trump is again claiming, without proof, that his political rival, Joe Biden, has been using performance-enhancing drugs, and on Sunday, Mr. Trump once again called on the Democratic presidential nominee to take a drug test ahead of Tuesday's presidential debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And a lot of people have said that. A lot of people have written that. So -- so --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Take a look at it, take a look. Why don't you just check it. You can check out the Internet. You'll see plenty of people say it. And whether he is or not doesn't matter. But I would love to take a test, and he can take a test, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Joe Biden's campaign has responded by saying the former vice president intends to deliver his debate answer in words, and it mocked Mr. Trump for his unusual request.

Well, President Trump and Joe Biden will face off for the first presidential debate on Tuesday in Cleveland, Ohio. CNN political correspondent Arlette Saenz has more on how both men are preparing for it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Joe Biden and President Trump will face off here for the first time in Cleveland as they're heading into that first general election presidential debate; and each of the candidates has been preparing in their own ways.

Joe Biden spending the weekend in Wilmington, Delaware, and he's been meeting with his top advisers as he strategizes how to take on President Trump.

And the president has also said that he's prepared a little bit but ultimately says that the job of the presidency is what has given him preparation heading into this debate.

Now this debate will look completely different from past general election presidential debates, due to the coronavirus pandemic. There will be no handshake between President Trump and Joe Biden as they take the stage, one of the precautions that's being taken because of COVID-19.

The audience will be much smaller. Sometimes these debates can have up to 900, even 1,200 people, depending on the venue. This one, we're told, will have between 60 to 70 audience members. Everyone who is on hand will be tested for COVID-19, as the debate commission has really adapted to ensure that the candidates and the audience is safe and healthy in the middle of this pandemic.

But this will be the first time that Biden and Trump will be onstage face to face, making their case to general election voters. Biden has said that he expects a lot of the president's attacks to turn personal as they are both preparing to make their case to voters on Tuesday.

Arlette Saenz, CNN, Cleveland, Ohio.

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BRUNHUBER: And tune in Tuesday night for that long-awaited showdown. CNN will carry the debate live, and our special coverage begins at 7 p.m. Eastern, 7 a.m. in Hong Kong, and 3 a.m. in Abu Dhabi.

President Donald Trump's former campaign manager has been hospitalized after reports of attempted suicide. Police responded to a call from Brad Parscale's wife about an armed male attempting suicide. Officers transported Parscale to a medical center for temporary detention and mental health evaluation.

Parscale was demoted from his job in the summer but still maintains a senior position in the Trump campaign. Now the campaign says they're ready to support him and his family in any way possible.

New evacuation orders have been issued in Napa County, California, after a wildfire burned at least 2,500 acres overnight. Nearly 2,000 people are under mandatory evacuations as the so-called Glass Fire continues to spread. The fire is blowing near St. Helena, California, and just east of Santa Rosa.

California is in the midst of an historic fire season. Five of the top 20 largest wildfires in the state's history have occurred in 2020.

Well, history was made in American sports on Sunday. How these three women did something never done before in the National Football League. You'll want to stay with us to see this.

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BRUNHUBER: Well, there were terrifying moments inside the home of former NFL football Hall of Fame quarterback Joe Montana.

Police say Montana confronted a woman on Saturday, who broke into his Malibu house and tried to snatch his grandchild. The woman apparently went up to the second floor and grabbed the 9-month-old from a playpen and held the child in her arms. Montana's wife was eventually able to pry the child away, and the woman was arrested after fleeing to a nearby house.

On a much more positive note, some NFL history was made on Saturday when not one, not two, but three women worked in various sideline roles. The Cleveland Browns taking on the Washington football team this afternoon, with female coaches on both sidelines and a female official on the field.

History will mark this as a first for a regular-season game, but for these women, being first isn't new. Back in February, Washington hired Jennifer King as a coaching intern, making her the first black woman to coach in the NFL. In 2015, Sarah Thomas became the first full-time female NFL official.

And three years later, Callie Bronson was hired by the Cleveland Browns as their chief of staff.

I want to thank you for watching. I'm Kim Brunhuber. WORLD SPORT is up next. And you are watching CNN.

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