Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump and Biden Face Off for First Time in Debate Tonight; New York Times Reports, White House Pressured CDC to Downplay Risks of Opening Schools; Pennsylvania Republicans Urge Supreme Court to Overturn Mail-In Ballot Ruling. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 29, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Shimon Prokupecz, still so much to learn there, thanks very much for being on the story.

A very good Tuesday morning to you. It's a little bit of a big day. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: It's only 10:00 A.M. on the east coast and there's already a lot going on in a big night ahead. We're glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow.

As I said, it's a critical night in the fight for the White House. The president and Joe Biden will be face to face for the first time in the first presidential debate, but in a year like no other, expect a debate the like no other. This pandemic is changing how things are done tonight.

And as the world hits 1 million deaths from coronavirus, expect that to be a major focus.

SCIUTTO: 200,000, more than 200,000 here in the U.S.

Also looming over this showdown, the New York Times reporting on decades of the president's tax records, tax records that are not provided the public but may are raising major questions today. The campaign still won't say what the president paid in federal income taxes. New York Times reports the billionaire paid $750.

Let's get to Jessica Dean in Cleveland, the site of tonight's debate. So how is this setting up? I mean, when you look at it, it sets up to be a very personal, contentious battle.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it certainly does, Jim and Poppy, and the Biden campaign is prepared for that. The Trump campaign has telegraphed that as well. It's certainly is a very different type of debate.

The stage looks very similar but everything around it a little bit different. I want to walk you through some of the changes that they have made because of the coronavirus pandemic and the over 200,000 deaths that we've had here in the U.S. Some of the things you're going to see tonight, the two candidates will be on opposite sides of the stage, as is customary. The moderator will be seated at the desk facing both of those candidates.

Now, you won't see that indelible moment where they shake hands. There will be no handshakes this evening, no opening statements. It's also going to be a much smaller crowd. We would typically see an average of, say, 900 or so inside. We're going to see 60 to 70, so much, much smaller. Everyone will have been tested for COVID before they are allowed inside this auditorium, Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: And in terms of preparing, Jim tried to get some answers from the campaign manager, Tim Murtaugh, and that he wasn't answering much at all. But in terms of preparing, we know Joe Biden has even taken days off the campaign trail and gotten criticized by some for that to prepare. Do you have a read into how the president is preparing?

DEAN: Right. So, okay, we've got six topics that we know that are going to be covered tonight. Let me quickly watch you through those, it's Trump and Biden records, the Supreme Court, COVID-19, the economy, race and violence in our cities and the integrity of the election.

Now, you mentioned President Trump and Vice President Biden preparing. President Trump, as we've seen, really not interested in doing your traditional preparation for this. He has -- he really shied away from any sort of formal big old mock debate, anything like that. He's really seen his press conferences as what he says is training.

We did see Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie in the briefing room. He said that they had been helping him. But, again, not an elaborate preparation on his part.

Now, the former Vice President Joe Biden, Poppy, you mentioned, he has been off the campaign trail, as is custom for candidates to prepare for a debate. This is a very anticipated moment, a very key moment in this general election.

Former Vice President Biden started with briefing books, smaller meetings with policy aides. He then moved on to full out mock debates and full preparation over the weekend and over the last day. But, guys, the campaign, the Biden campaign certainly preparing for those personal attacks. They want to continue to draw it back to the coronavirus pandemic response and the economy.

We'll see how it all plays out tonight.

HARLOW: We'll be watching. Jess, thanks for the great reporting.

Now, the president has denied The New York Times reporting about his taxes and his debts, and that's probably what he'll do on the debate stage tonight.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Easy way to disprove would be to release the taxes and audits do not prevent that. John Harwood is at the White House. John, is the White House offering any proof to back up these denials based on my interactions with the Trump campaign communications director, the answer is no?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think your exchanges with Tim Murtaugh were a good reflect of the fact that, no, they are not offering any proof. They are not releasing data. In fact, the Trump White House asked The New York Times for the data that The New York Times used for their reporting.

Instead, what we're seeing from the president, from his aides is to denounce it as fake news, to say it's a smear, to say The New York Times is trying to help Joe Biden on the eve of the debate and say that the American people took this kind of -- similar kind of information into account four years ago.

[10:05:04]

Now, they have got a point there. It is very difficult at this point in the campaign for anything to change how Americans view Donald Trump. This is not likely to peel many voters away from Trump.

The problem is that it is President Trump, not Joe Biden, who needs to shake up the deck right now. Nothing has done that for him, including over the last ten days or so this whole issue of the Supreme Court nomination after Ruth Bader Ginsburg's death. That has not produced a boost for President Trump. So the debate tonight may be his last best hope of shaking up this dynamic.

We have seen the president doesn't like to prepare. He's not a big guy for homework, but he is somebody who has a predilection for throwing haymakers as if in a schoolyard fight. So we can expect him to try to go after Hunter Biden, try to shake up, rattle Joe Biden, make him lose his temper. That is a key objective for the president. See whether Joe Biden takes the bait and falls for that or not.

But Joe Biden -- excuse me, President Trump certainly needs something to happen that's negative for Joe Biden on that debate stage tonight.

HARLOW: John Harwood at the White House, thanks so much for that.

Let's talk about what is ahead tonight. Yahoo News National Politics Reporter Brittany Shepherd joins us, and our Presidential Historian, Douglas Brinkley.

Hi, guys, big night ahead. Brittany, Hunter Biden seems to be the word of the day or the week. I suppose it might be a big word on the debate stage for the president tonight. How should Joe Biden or how do you -- what is your reporting on how he may handle personal attacks on his family?

BRITTANY SHEPHERD, POLITICS REPORTER, YAHOO NEWS: Well, Biden tends to take things really personally. His advisers have been downplaying the debate's significance given that Biden has a dead heat or polling edge in crucial states. So there is some worry that Biden is going to get a little hot around the collar, especially if he brings up Hunter or Beau.

I think we should all remember that Trump is not above pulling stunts. Back in 2016, he brought a slew of Bill Clinton's accusers to rattle Hillary. It's not just Hunter Biden. It's also Tara Reid, a name we haven't spoken about in a long time that could come up and completely derail tonight. I mean, I think it's going to be crucial television.

I mean, the moment Joe Biden starts to go back and forth with Donald Trump is a minute that he's not talking about his policy. A lot of folks know who Joe Biden is as a person but there are a lot of policies they still want to be able to get down on. I mean, for now, it's been a referendum on Trump's presidency but it's going to be curious, it might referendum into how Joe Biden deals with the pressure if he's taken off guard tonight.

SCIUTTO: Douglas Brinkley, campaigns have been ugly before, but this is a historically ugly campaign season here. I just wonder would a historically ugly debate serve either candidates' interests, right, given the climate right now, I mean, are there risks for both candidates to go low?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: There're great risk for both to go low. And, incidentally, about the Hunter Biden question, remember, guys, in 1988 when Michael Dukakis was asked by Bernard Shaw of CNN whether his -- what if, you know, Kitty Dukakis, if his wife would have been raped and he didn't have any answer. He kind of just stayed in his lane.

I think when it gets to Hunter Biden tonight, Joe Biden has got to show some emotion about -- in defending his own son.

But going into the mud, I mean, I guess Donald Trump feels it's an advantage if he can brutalize Joe Biden, make Joe look like Sleepy Joe. But for our democracy, nobody is going to get help. We're in the middle of a neo-civil war and a slugfest might be entertaining in some ways, but it's not going to help people with COVID or the economy.

HARLOW: I wonder if that's different though, Douglas Brinkley, because that was about the death penalty, right, and it was about Dukakis, well, what would you do if it was your wife, sort of policy- wise, where is your position.

I also wonder, Douglas, if you think that both candidates need some good Reagan-esque one-liners tonight, right? I will not exploit my opponent's youth or inexperience. Do they need those, because Joe Biden can go kind of long?

BRINKLEY: Joe Biden definitely needs those. Trump comes up with them on his own. You know, Ronald Reagan, I once edited a thing called the notes, and he would keep all these little note cards filled with jokes. It was his most prized possession, Ronald Reagan, and he could pluck them out and then pick which ones he's going to use at different times. That's how Ronald Reagan won in 1980 and 1984, was the, there you go again line, or are you better off now than you were four years ago? Putting some humor in it would be big for Joe Biden. Trump's humor is just in his absurdity of comment. SCIUTTO: Brittany Shepherd, what do voters, the few undecided voters at this point, if you believe the public polling, what issues do they want to hear focused on most tonight?

[10:10:09]

SHEPHERD: I think, critically, when I talk to people, they used to want to talk about kitchen table issues, so health care, climate change. But now, a lot of people are willing to --

SCIUTTO: Brittany, sincere apologies, we have the Senate majority leader speaking about the new Supreme Court nominee. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): And I'm glad to have her here and glad to get the process started.

MIKE PENCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: On behalf of President Donald Trump, I want to thank the Senate majority leader and your colleagues in the Senate who have committed to meet with an extraordinary American in Judge Amy Coney Barrett. We have someone of great character, of great intellect, who has a judicial philosophy that will uphold the Constitution of the United States.

President Trump discharged his duty under Article II to nominate Judge Barrett to the vacancy on the Supreme Court of the United States. And now, we look forward, our entire team leader, working with you, Republicans in the Senate, and we hope Democrats in the Senate as well, as you discharge your duty to advise and consent.

We truly do believe that Judge Barrett represents the best of America personally in terms of her great intellect, her great background and we have every confidence that, as the American people learn more about Judge Amy Coney Barrett, they will be a inspired as President Trump was when he made her nomination.

But we believe the Senate has an opportunity later for a fair and respectful consideration, a hearing. We urge our Democratic colleagues in the Senate to take the opportunity to meet with Judge Barrett, and as the hearing goes forward, to provide the kind of respectful hearing that the American people expect.

We look forward to a vote in the Senate in the near future and to fill the seat on the Supreme Court of the United States because the American people deserve a justice like Judge Amy Coney Barrett, the American people deserve nine justices on the Supreme Court of the United States.

So, thank you, leader, for the warm welcome today and we look forward to working with you.

REPORTER: Leader McConnell, if Judge Coney Barrett is confirmed, should she recuse herself from any election--related cases?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, folks, let's go. Thank you. Let's go. SCIUTTO: All right. You saw there the president's new nominee for the Supreme Court, Amy Coney Barrett, as she visits the Hill.

I want to go back to Brittany Shepherd, because, Brittany, I interrupted you on the question. What are the issues, the bread and butter issues that voters want to hear tonight? I mean, do they want to see a personal sparring match, or do they want to hear a discussion of things that impact their lives?

SHEPHERD: Well, I think, definitely, a sparring match is the bottom of their list. I think I hear more than ever despite -- you know, I used to hear -- okay, I want to hear certain things on climate change or certain things health care.

I think folks are willing to swallow bigger pills and just really want to return to normalcy. I think they are telling me that their lives and the lives of their loved ones have been smashed by coronavirus, by the twin pandemics on race relations. And they're going to be looking to this debate to see who would they rather help them kind of glue their lives back together.

A lot of people are going to be watching, but over a million folks have already voted compared to last year. I think, last cycle, I think it was 10,000. So it's a big pool of viewers and only a small target. The campaigns, they have to stick the landing, and the voters are really, really wanting some kind of unity. And if they don't do that, they might be disenfranchised not to go out in November.

SCIUTTO: And you make a good point. I mean, with all the early voting, there's diminishing returns in each of these debates as we get closer to Election Day.

Brittany Shepherd, Douglas Brinkley, thanks to both of you. Lots to watch for tonight.

Other story we're following, stimulus talks restart with a lot at stake. Days from now, airlines could start furloughing tens of thousands of workers unless Washington can come up with a deal. I'm going to speak to two flight attendants about to be out of a job after years of service, and they have a message for Congress.

HARLOW: We're also learning much more about the push from inside the White House this summer to get the CDC to downplay the risks of COVID as schools were going to reopen in the fall. One of the reporters who broke the story is here with us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

HARLOW: Well, we have new insight into the behind-the-scenes effort by the White House to change the CDC's reopening school guidance for potentially political gain. At the crux of this pressure, this is the graphic that emphasized the high cost of keeping schools closed and minimized the risks of COVID-19 to children. The White House wanted it included. The CDC objected. And, ultimately, Jim, it was not published.

SCIUTTO: Notable. With us now is one of the reporters who broke the story, Mark Mazzetti of The New York Times. Mark, I mean, remarkable reporting. And we've seen political interference in the COVID response, sure, before. But with regard to children, particularly notable here. I'm curious, did the White House officials bend the science here, play it down? Did they outright lie about the risks?

[10:20:01]

MARK MAZZETTI, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: We don't report that there was any direct manipulation of data or, as you saw, bending of science. What was going on was that during this time, the biggest political emphasis of the White House was, we need to reopen schools as part of reopening the economy, and this was seen by many officials as one of the cornerstones of the president's re-election.

And so what was happening was there was pressure on CDC as it was developing guidelines for schools reopening to downplay the risk to children for school reopening. And so this came in different ways. It came in emphasizing, as you said, the costs of keeping schools closed, the mental health costs, pointing out the data that showed children were less at risk than adults.

And as we report, efforts by the vice president's staff to circumvent the CDC in order to show other data that might show that the virus, in general, is weakening across the country over the summer.

HARLOW: So, Mark, you include the response in the White House in your reporting, it's from Brian Morgenstern, who basically says, look, the president relies on a lot of advice around him and that it's in the, quote, public health interest to safely reopen schools. It doesn't actually answer what your reporting found.

MAZZETTI: No. I mean, they don't deny that this is going on. They say that the president is on record saying it is important for schools to open and, you know, there is general agreement that, you know, being in school, of course, is better than being at home. The question was how to balance the risks.

And there was real concern at the CDC because the science was unsettled and still is unsettled, exact costs and risks to children and the potential for children to spread coronavirus, what the CDC was trying to do is develop safe guidelines. And what they were getting from the White House was an urgent effort to emphasize that it's going to be safe.

You know, we have internal emails that say, you know, these guidelines send the wrong message. It's a negative message that's going to scare parents. We want to make them feel safe. We want to emphasize that there's low risk to their children.

Again, going back to the issue that before we talk to some on the record and say that this was really seen inside the White House as a cornerstone for an election campaign. SCIUTTO: And, listen, having the conversation about costs and benefits fair but you have to be accurate about the costs, right? I'm curious about Dr. Birx's role here, right, because according to your story, was she taking part, Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House coronavirus task force response coordinator, was she taking part in this effort?

MAZZETTI: Well, we have an email she sends to Dr. Redfield, the head of the CDC, where she is pressing for some of this information that the White House wanted included in CDC guidance. What the CDC -- what the White House wanted was more of a focus on the dangers, the risks of keeping kids at home.

And so Dr. Birx sends to Redfield saying, please incorporate some of this into your guidance and where it ends up being is in the preamble of the entire CDC guidance is this is the information that the CDC wanted, and that came from Dr. Birx.

It was -- you know, and we've also spoken to people who were part of the task force who talked about kind of regularly during task force meetings this -- this beating on the CDC and beating on Dr. Redfield for what was considered to be the CDC's position as being seen as obstructionist.

SCIUTTO: Understood.

HARLOW: Yes, wow. Really, really important reporting, Mark, especially New York City public schools are opening today. Thank you very much for that.

The president is once again expected to question the integrity of the election and complain about widespread voter fraud that is not founded on fact. In the debate tonight, the question is where is the proof, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Pennsylvania is, of course, a critical swing state in this election, and now the state's Republicans are asking the U.S. Supreme Court to block a lower court ruling, which allows absentee ballots to be counted up to three days after the election.

HARLOW: Our National Correspondent, Kristen Holmes, joins us this morning. Good morning, Kristen.

Voting by mail expected to be at historic levels this year due to the pandemic, but there's a lot of court cases and back and forth about it, that's for sure.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. And that's why Democrats in this scenario were seeking this extension to try loosen up some of those restrictions around absentee voting.

But Republicans, they say this. They say, doing so, offering an extension, that is going to open the door for people to cast their ballots after Election Day for it to cause massive chaos and massive fraud.

Now, if you're thinking that that rhetoric is familiar, that's because, of course, we've heard it over and over again from President Trump, and we expect to hear it again in just a few hours when he doubles down on his messaging, his campaign against the election during tonight's debate.

[10:30:08]