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Trump and Biden Face Off For First Time in Debate Tonight; New York City Daily Positivity Rate over 3 Percent, Threatening School Reopening; Florida Bars Packed after Governor Lifts Restrictions. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 29, 2020 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now. Have a good afternoon.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN RIGHTNOW: Hi there. I'm Brianna Keilar, and I want to welcome our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world.

After months of trading jabs on Twitter, at rallies and through media, President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden will finally meet tonight in their first one-on-one debate, the latest event in an election unlike any we have ever seen.

These are live pictures from Cleveland where the candidates will face off and where the coronavirus pandemic is impacting everything from how the candidates will greet each to the traditional post-debate spin room circus.

Our Political Correspondent Arlette Saenz is there in Cleveland. And, Arlette, tell us about this unusual evening that we are about to see.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, it will be a presidential debate unlike any other in part due to the coronavirus pandemic. The commission taking great precautions to ensure the health and safety of the candidates, those in attendance and also the media.

Now, when Biden and Trump enter the stage, they will be standing at socially distanced podiums. They will forego that traditional hand shake that the candidates have at the start of the debate due to the coronavirus pandemic. The moderator will be seated at a table facing two of the candidates. The audience will be much smaller in size and everyone on hand will be tested for COVID-19 before they enter that debate hall.

So those are just some of the signs of the way that the coronavirus pandemic has changed the way that this presidential debate will play out.

Now, the debate will be 90 minutes covering six topics that were chosen by the moderator, Chris Wallace of Fox News, to run through each of those topics. There will be the Trump and Biden records, the Supreme Court, COVID-19, the economy, race and violence in our cities, that's the way that the moderator framed that topic, and the integrity of the election.

There will be no breaks during this 90-minute debate as President Trump and Joe Biden prepare to face off one-on-one for the first time in this presidential campaign.

Each of the candidates has been preparing in their own ways. Biden starting out by reading through briefing books and really transitioning into heavier debate prep over the past few days as he's been in Wilmington, Delaware.

For the president's part, he has been studying possible lines of attack from Joe Biden. Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie have been working with him at times standing in as Biden, as he has prepared.

But as Biden and Trump are taking the stage tonight, voters will get a look at the big contrast between the two of them as they face off for the presidency in just a little over a month.

KEILAR: All right. We will be watching. Thank you, Arlette, from Cleveland. And you can watch the debate live right here on CNN tonight.

David Chalian, our Political Director, is here with us now. And, David, you actually have a cheat sheet of what to watch. So, share your notes with us.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Sure thing. My first note for you, Brianna, is this is a big test for Donald Trump. That is mission critical for him tonight is to try and upend the trajectory of this race. With all the sort of bombshell headlines that happen day in and day out, the race between Joe Biden and Donald Trump has been remarkably stable, stable in Joe Biden's advantage. And that is what Donald Trump needs to upend. That is a tall order for one debate.

One way that he intends to try and do that is what he failed to do with his convention, which is change this election from a referendum about Donald Trump into a choice between Trump and Biden. They tried very hard at the Republican convention to do that but that's not sort of the context of where we are in this campaign right now. So the attempt will be to do that again.

The other thing that I think you have to be weary of if you are Donald Trump is the history here, right? First-term presidents who are running for re-election, they don't do so well usually in these first debates. George W. Bush in 2004, Barack Obama in 2012, after four years of not debating and inside the bubble of the presidency, it could be a little off-putting to all of a sudden have someone challenging you because that doesn't happen all that often to a president.

And we've seen that in the past. We will be on the lookout to see if that throws Donald Trump off his game. But you know Trump loves a show and he knows how to put one on so I have little doubt that he's looking forward to this tonight.

The second item in my notebook, in my cheat sheet for you is Biden beware. Beware of those Trump tactics to try and sort of get under his skin. I think that's got to be a real thing to watch for in Biden tonight, the expected onslaught of lies, the expected onslaught of personal insults or talking about his son, Hunter Biden, or what it is.

Does that get under Joe Biden's skin? Does that throw him off his own game? Because when you're a frontrunner, Brianna, you have one clear mission here, do no harm. And that's Joe Biden's mission tonight in addition to wanting to show a real, constant 90-minute long contrast to tens of millions of Americans between him and the president.

[13:05:06]

Allowing the president to sort of get in his head and get him off his game is something he has to be weary of.

And, finally, my a final note on the cheat sheet, target audience, watch to see who the candidates are talking to. I think it will tell us so much about where they see this race. Is Donald Trump all base- rallying and trying to shore up a base that has shown a little bit of erosion? That would be a tough place to be in 35 days out. Does Joe Biden use this as an attempt to try to play offense on some of Donald Trump's turf targeting white working class voters that have been core to Donald Trump?

Watch to see who they are talking to in their answers. And I think it will tell us so much about how each candidate sees the state of the race, Brianna.

KEILAR: Certainly. We will be watching along with you, David Chalian. Thank you. And you can check out the first presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden right here on CNN. CNN special coverage tonight will start at 7:00 Eastern.

The stakes are even higher for the president off the debate stage. The fallout from The New York Times' investigation on Trump's taxes is enormous and it's not only political, it's possibly legal as well.

Trump's former fixer and personal attorney, Michael Cohen, suggested that the president could serve time for what has been reported by The New York Times about his massive debt and how he has avoided paying taxes for years.

Cohen is currently on house arrest following his own tax evasion conviction among other crimes. He spoke to New Day earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER PERSONAL ATTORNEY TO DONALD TRUMP: Not only did I end up paying, what is it, about 2,000 times what he paid, I'm certainly not a billionaire and I ended up getting hit with tax evasion. So, Lord knows what he is going to end up getting hit with. If I ended getting 36 months on a million dollars, Lord knows what he is going to get. He may end up doing the next century.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now, Trump has called The Times report fake and made up. Re- election may be key to avoiding legal scrutiny for Trump at least for a few years.

J.W. Verret is an Associate Professor of Law at George Mason University. He was on the Trump transition team in 2016. He has since spoken out against the president and called for his impeachment.

And, J.W., you are a lawyer, you're also an accountant with a specialty in financial forensics. So, considering the revelations that you've seen in The Times story, what kind of investigation might this prompt?

J.W. VERRET, FORMER TRUMP TRANSITION STAFFER WHO LATER CALLED FOR HIS IMPEACHMENT: Well, the lesson one that I teach and lesson one that I utilize in fraud investigations is I want to see your tax returns and I want to see your loan applications, what did you tell to the IRS versus what did you tell the bank.

And sometimes there's a slight difference between those. It seems from The Times reporting there's a huge difference here. There's not only a red flag, I would say a bright crimson flag about that potential difference. And that means in Cy Vance's investigation of Trump, the potential bank fraud, tax fraud, honest services fraud issues that the grand jury is investigating, just got a real leg up.

KEILAR: So, one hand, you're either overinflating something perhaps to the bank, right, to show that you have these assets, or on the other hand, you're minimizing it so that you pay less in taxes. And, clearly, the numbers should line up a little better than that.

We know that Trump has $400 million in loans and are coming due here in the next few years. Would those lenders foreclose on a sitting president, do you think?

VERRET: That would be a difficult calculation for them, you know? I'm not sure. I'm not sure if they would want to do that. But I'm sure they would think twice about lending him any more money.

KEILAR: Now, these revelations that were seen about how little to nothing Trump has paid in taxes are new. They're new to us, right? They're not new to the IRS. Why has this been allowed to persist if it's raising so many red flags?

VERRET: Well, it's not uncommon for investigations to prolong, particularly when the defendant, as in this case, or the person under investigation is willing to stay the statute of limitations, sort of giver the IRS more time, which Trump has been willing to do, it is unusual to prosecute a case while the president is in office.

But I have faith in both the congressional committees overseeing, which have an important role, and in the IRS line (ph) level investigators to get this right, particularly after the current commissioner is gone.

KEILAR: Is he shielded, J.W., being in the White House and would he be shielded if he won re-election?

VERRET: He is shielded from criminal investigation. So to the extent that this might be something the IRS would want to refer to the DOJ for criminal investigation, they can't do that right now, because the DOJ will never prosecute a sitting president. They have said that. So that limits the IRS in some ways.

I mean, typically, part of the issue when you have very serious fraud is the IRS will say, look, maybe you could settle and this doesn't develop further. They can't say that right now. They can't be part of the background of the discussion.

So there is a partial shield but I don't think it's impenetrable, particularly when you get the state issues from Cy Vance.

[13:10:04]

KEILAR: Yes, exactly. So he is the Manhattan district attorney and he is in the middle of investigating the Trump organization. What do these revelations mean for his investigation?

VERRET: I think he --Cy Vance can cut and paste these reports, the evidence he submits to the grand jury. Remember, the grand jury only has to get to determining probable cause. And I think there's more than enough in The New York Times reporting to show probable cause of the potential kinds of fraud that Cy Vance is looking into.

Now, whether or not the next question we'll get to, if Trump wins re- election, is can Cy Vance prosecute the president for criminal activity before he became president? That's a novel question of law. We don't know the answer to that. And that's one that all the judges from the district court to Supreme Court have been sort of dancing around. They have intimated that the president doesn't have absolute immunity from all criminal investigation.

They have used the example of shooting someone in the face on Madison Avenue, a regrettable example that Trump uses himself in the filings. We don't know yet the sort of parameters of criminal law that can be brought against a sitting president. So that's uncertainty for both sides right now.

KEILAR: All right, so many questions, right, raised by this report, and we thank you for helping us sort through them, J.W. Verret.

VERRET: Thank you.

KEILAR: As millions of American children and teachers are physically heading back into the classroom, we are learning that the White House pressured the CDC to downplay the risks of coronavirus for children. I'll be speaking with one teacher who says she's infuriated.

And just in, two NFL teams closing down operations after a series of infections among players as the NFL confronts its first big challenge of playing in a pandemic.

And I'll speak live with a bar owner in Florida after the governor fully reopened restaurants and bars, which Dr. Fauci has called one of the most dangerous super-spreaders.

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[13:15:00]

KEILAR: Two breaking stories on the coronavirus pandemic. The Tennessee Titans announcing today that three players and five staff members have tested positive for coronavirus. The team played the Minnesota Vikings on Sunday and both the Vikings and Titans are suspending in-person club activities.

The Vikings have not reported any positive tests following Sunday's game. But, obviously, if one team infected the other, this is certainly the first big challenge for the NFL in playing during a pandemic.

And in New York, the city's mayor says the daily positivity rate is above 3 first for the first time in months.

CNN Correspondent Evan McMorris-Santoro is with us. And I wonder, Evan, what officials are saying about the cause of this rise and what percentage point is going to be the tipping point for them changing things.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, at a press conference this morning, Mayor Bill de Blasio said that, essentially, what's happening is New Yorkers in some zip codes are not wearing masks and they're congregating. And he said that if that continues to happen, you could see businesses in that area start to close down and you could start to see fines for not wearing masks.

Now, these bad numbers come on a very bad day for New York City because this is the day of the first experiment in in-person learning in the New York City public school system since March. I'm at PS-89 in Elmhurst, Queens, and you can see students actually started to arrive this morning and they're going to start leaving now.

We saw some students show up for their hybrid in-person schedule. They showed up and they got in line. The schools are trying very hard to keep things safe but there's a concern that maybe with these rising numbers, that might be in jeopardy.

Governor Andrew Cuomo said at a press conference just moments ago that he is going to keep a very close eye on things.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): The schools must report to the state the data. They're doing testing. The numbers will tell you the facts. And once you have the facts, you can operate logically. If the schools are not safe, I'm not going to allow them to operate, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Now, Brianna, you mentioned that tipping point number, and that's very important. if the seven-day rolling average in the city does become 3 percent, which it is not now, schools like this one will have to close down, making this experiment very, very short. And if the numbers continue go up, you could see more closures like the bad old days back in April, where if you're someone like me who has been in New York this entire time is a very scary thought, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly a very scary thought. Evan, thank you so much for that report.

A former member of the White House coronavirus task force admits she witnessed the White House pressuring the CDC to downplay the risks of coronavirus on children, as President Trump sought to reopen schools, as the White House tried to sell the false narrative that we're putting coronavirus in our rearview mirrors.

Olivia Troye, a long time adviser to Vice President Pence, confirmed the story first reported in The New York Times. Troye describes junior staffers on the hunt this past summer to find data that would contradict the CDC and support the president's push to get schools back open. And she says it was part of her moral struggle working for the Trump administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER PENCE AIDE WHO SERVED ON WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: In terms of the manipulation of the data, it was people within the white house specifically tasking more junior level staff to try to find alternate data, data that fit the narrative that they wanted, which was it only affects people above the age of 75 and it doesn't affect younger school children.

[13:20:03]

It was all part of the narrative of we need to open up these schools, we need to open them up now.

We are constantly trying to do the right thing. I'm a national security professional. I have been doing this over two decades. Saving lives is what I've been focused on and protecting Americans. And watching this happen firsthand was very upsetting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Erin Reid teaches at a public high school in Los Angeles County. Erin, thank you for being with us.

ERIN REID, TEACHING HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS REMOTELY: Hi, thanks for having me.

KEILAR: So your high school right now is fully remote, right? But this isn't the case for a number of schools in California and all around the country. What is your reaction to learning that the task force was actually highlighting data that could help them argue for schools to reopen and minimizing data that showed risks or unknowns for kids or how kids spread the virus?

REID: I mean, it is infuriating, honestly. We know we're fighting an invisible enemy, if you will. And putting teachers and children's lives at risk and ignoring data and skewing data to fit a specific narrative, it is something this administration does over and over and over again.

It begs the question, what's true? Who do we listen to? If you're ignoring data, you know, it literally leaves me speechless. It is appalling.

KEILAR: I want to listen to another observation that that former Pence aide and coronavirus task force staffer, Olivia Troye, made. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TROYE: I think there are still people walking around the White House today who don't actually believe this virus is real. A lot of them disregard it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Okay. So you're hearing her question whether some people in the White House even think this is a thing, right, and you sort of hit on this. But how does this make you feel about whether you can trust the CDC or the White House task force and what they're saying about schools?

REID: What I trust right now is science. And what we see repeatedly over and over and over again with this administration is they refuse to listen to science. They refuse to listen to experts. And the minute they start to do that, we're going to be able to prepare for our educational system, we're going to be able to prepare adequately to reopen America. But until we listen to science, that's not going to be able to be done.

And I give this researcher, you know, a huge amount of credit for speaking out and doing what's right. She seems to be the only person that has morals and ethics on that side of the fence.

KEILAR: What does your district, Erin, telling you about a return to class, anything?

REID: So, yes, my district currently is looking at -- they do want to go hybrid. They want to go full open. So we currently are in negotiations with our district on what that's going to look like and what the guidelines are. And we use CDC guidelines and guidelines from our state as well to make sure that that is specifically put into place before we can open. So we are a long way from opening right now.

KEILAR: I wonder what your message is for the community out there. Because, look, we look at what this conundrum is with schools. And one hand, you are asking 30 or, I think, in your case, more than 30, and that's just for one class. You're asking 30-plus families to take on the role of teacher, right, in addition to you through this virtual learning. But on the other hand, you're asking one teacher to take on the germs of 30 families. It is a tough problem to negotiate.

What is your message to your community as they consider this?

REID: My message is we need to have grace during this time. I'm a parent as well as a teacher. I'm teaching at home while my two boys are distance learning at home in the next room. We know that this isn't easy but we know right now this is what's safe. This is the safest method to educate our children.

KEILAR: Erin Reid, thank you so much. We really appreciate talking to you about this.

REID: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: Does the president's crippling debt make him a national security risk in or out of office? We're going to discuss that.

Plus, a Florida bar owner is joining me live on the governor reopening bars and restaurants despite warnings from health officials.

And did the Kentucky attorney general mislead the public about what charges the Breonna Taylor grand jury was allowed to consider? One grand juror taking the extraordinary step of asking confidential information to be made public.

[13:25:02]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:00]

KEILAR: The first weekend after Florida's governor lifted the COVID ban on restaurants, clubs and bars, businesses in some areas were jam- packed with pre-pandemic-sized crowds.