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Florida Bars Packed after Governor Lifts Restrictions; Robert Cardillo, Former Deputy Director of National Intelligence for Defense Integration, Discusses Whether Trump's Crippling Debt Raises Dangers about National Security; Breonna Taylor Grand Juror Sues to Release Transcript. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired September 29, 2020 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The first weekend after Florida's governor lifted the COVID ban on restaurants, clubs and bars, businesses in some areas were jampacked with pre-pandemic-sized crowds.
Governor Ron DeSantis' order allows businesses to reopen at full capacity. And even though people are encouraged to practice safety protocols, like wearing masks and staying six feet apart, they weren't really taking the advice, as you can see in the pictures here.
Bar and restaurant owners, hit hard by the pandemic, are trying to manage this new normal and survive financially.
That includes Debbie Qualls, who owns Gaffer's Pub in the south Florida city of Davie. She just reopened her doors after a six-month shutdown. And Debbie, we should mention, is a COVID survivor.
Debbie, tell us about what you are going through. You have owned Gaffer's pub for 13 years.
How do you manage what must be, on one hand, a relief to be open and then have this threat of the coronavirus and how you deal with that as you're reopening?
DEBBIE QUALLS, OWNER, GAFFER'S PUB: We have sanitizer everywhere. We clean the seats when a person leaves. We clean the bar. We only have a 25 percent capacity so it's not that hard to keep people separated.
We haven't even had 25 people come back in yet. So they still have a curfew from 11:00. So it's hard to make your money and have the restrictions on.
KEILAR: So when you say that you are at 25 percent capacity, you are allowed to have more than that --
(CROSSTALK)
QUALLS: At 50 percent capacity.
KEILAR: You're at 50 percent capacity?
(CROSSTALK)
QUALLS: That's 25 people for me.
KEILAR: So 25 people for you.
So how has business been with the governor now reopening in full?
QUALLS: I mean, we have people coming in but not -- not like normal.
KEILAR: And what are they saying when they come in? What are your customers telling you about coming in and how they feel about it?
QUALLS: They're so glad to be able to go out and live their lives and have a normal life.
KEILAR: And how does it feel for you as a business owner?
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: And how does it feel for you as a business owner? Where you have taken a huge financial hit. How does this feel for you?
QUALLS: Great. Just to be allowed to open and somebody not to have to close your business just because you can't order food with a drink.
KEILAR: You contracted COVID during the shutdown. Can you tell us about that?
QUALLS: I was asymptomatic. That was during March. And March, like 25th. From a doctor's office, actually.
KEILAR: You were asymptomatic. The guidance from the government is that, after three months, you may not have immunity anymore. Do you have safety concerns for yourself and your employees?
QUALLS: No. We're very clean here.
KEILAR: Why not?
QUALLS: Everybody wears a mask.
If you're going to get it -- if you're going to get it, you're going to get it.
You got a better chance of going and getting it in Publix or Home Depot or Walmart where there are thousands of people going in and out every day.
KEILAR: Are you aware of the numbers, though, when it comes to dining that there's actually a link between indoor dining and COVID cases, that this actually is an increased risk factor?
Is that something you worry about or is that just something you have to deal with because, look, you have taken such a huge financial hit --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- and you need to get back into normal -- normalcy?
QUALLS: Yes. It should be people's choice, not the government's. If people want to go somewhere, they should be able to go somewhere.
KEILAR: All right. Debbie Qualls, thank you for talking to us.
QUALLS: Thank you.
KEILAR: Ahead, a Senate candidate will be -- or has cut up a mask during a live debate. Hear why.
Plus, former White House physician, Ronny Jackson, at it again, now peddling a baseless conspiracy theory about Joe Biden.
[13:34:18]
And do the revelations about the president's finances make him a national security risk? His former intelligence adviser will join me live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: President Donald Trump boasts about how his business acumen makes him an ideal commander-in-chief.
But "The "New York Times" expose of his finances and the paper's allegations that he is personally liable for roughly $421 million in loans and debts to unknown creditors, either domestic or foreign, is raising alarms and renewed questions about whether the president could pose a national security risk.
Trump's refusal to disclose his tax records to the American public is something Democratic lawmakers highlighted back in 2018.
Listen to this exchange between then-Senator Tom Udall of New Mexico and secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM UDALL (D-NM): Given that the president refuses to disclose his tax returns, how can you assure the American people that American foreign policy is free of his personal conflicts of interest?
[13:40:08]
MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Senator, I -- I find that -- I find that question bizarre.
UDALL: I didn't -- you don't want to answer it then?
POMPEO: Senator, I've been -- (CROSSTALK)
UDALL: -- described it as bizarre?
POMPEO: Yes, I do.
(CROSSTALK)
POMPEO: I that's indicative of my answer, Senator. I've been incredibly involved this administration's foreign policy for 16 months and I have seen literally no evidence of what you are --
(CROSSTALK)
POMPEO: -- suggesting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: That was current Senator Udall and the secretary of state.
And joining me now is Robert Cardillo. He served as a top intelligence adviser for both Presidents Trump and Obama and for four other presidents from both parties. He also briefed then-Vice President Biden regularly, hundreds of times, for four years as the deputy director of National Intelligence for Defense Integration.
Sir, thank you so much for being with us.
I was hoping you could tell us if, in your view, the president is a national security risk.
ROBERT CARDILLO, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE FOR DEFENSE INTEGRATION: Well, Brianna, I can't speak to the particulars because I don't know what's actually inside of his personal finances.
But let me extend the question to, if I was back in the Intelligence Community and doing an assessment of a foreign leader.
We would look for vulnerabilities in that leader in order to understand whether or not that they possibly could be compromised. We would -- and it would include financial obligations.
So again, not knowing the particulars of our president's situation, it certainly would apply if we were assessing a foreign leader.
KEILAR: All right. Unfortunately, we are having a problem there with our connection. We're going to try to re-establish that and bring back former Trump intelligence adviser, Robert Cardillo.
President Trump and Joe Biden facing off at tonight's first presidential debate. And I'll talk to one guest about why he says it's Trump not Biden who is being underestimated.
Plus, a grand juror in the Breonna Taylor case says they want to make sure the truth gets out. That grand juror accusing Kentucky's attorney general of misleading the public. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:46:42]
KEILAR: I'm joined again by Robert Cardillo. He served as a top intelligence adviser for both Presidents Trump and Obama and four other presidents from both parties.
Before we were interrupted by the connection problem, we were talking about -- certainly, you lack some information about where the president's debts lie. Right? That's key information.
But as someone who has been in the intelligence space, what would your concerns be about the president and whether or not he may be a national security risk?
CARDILLO: Brianna, we would just -- again, if we were applying our profession and our trade craft to an adversary, we would be looking for vulnerabilities of any sort to understand how stable they would be and how trustworthy they could be, et cetera.
Any risk, you know, associated with that could create a potential opportunity for somebody to apply leverage or pressure.
And so, again, it's hypothetical but I believe it does potentially expose a risk.
KEILAR: You have briefed President Trump. You can't provide details what you guys talked about. What you briefed him on is highly sensitive. But what was it like? Can you tell us?
CARDILLO: Well, I mean, if it's helpful, let me contrast my experience under President Obama and Vice President Biden with President Trump.
By the way, being different isn't a critique. It's just everyone takes the briefing differently.
I think people know President Obama was a reader. He would pick his book ahead of time. It would be completely digested by the time we saw him.
So we were always challenged in a good way with President Obama and Vice President Biden because we were going beyond the book. What next? What do we do about this assessment? What policy would he need to pursue, et cetera?
With President Trump, for which I had much less time in the office, it was more -- much more interactive. He would take the brief in real time.
I saw him very early in his administration. So and one could appreciate, because he came from the outside, he was in learning mode.
So a lot more questions. I'll call them elementary but they were fair questions for somebody who was new to the intelligence profession. So much more, I'll call it, dynamic atmosphere. And a little sporty because the president does move quite quickly
across issues and topics.
KEILAR: You -- was he intellectually curious in your experience?
CARDILLO: I would, again -- when I saw him, it is early spring of 2017, he's in learning mode.
Director of National Intelligence Coats was bringing in essentially tutorials for him so that he could better understand this Intelligence Community that was serving him.
So, yes, they were fundamental but, within that overall objective, the topics moved quite quickly and quite broadly.
[13:50:00]
KEILAR: So you're saying -- it sounds like you're saying the questions were somewhat pedestrian.
I know that you said that he was erratic and less than fully thoughtful at times. I'm sure what the discussion was like was different in that regard compared to other presidents you briefed.
CARDILLO: Well, it's true. You know, I would prefer using the word fundamental, Brianna. They were just basic questions. But again, I think that was the time when he should be asking basic questions.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: I'm just quoting you.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: I want to be clear, I'm just quoting you, though, right?
CARDILLO: No, you are.
KEILAR: Right.
CARDILLO: But I don't think I ever used pedestrian.
KEILAR: Oh, no, sure.
CARDILLO: No --
KEILAR: I agree with you on that, yes.
CARDILLO: Yes. But my point is more on the -- you know, again, and I didn't know him before he became president so it's an external view, but my impression was that he takes on the world with a very internal focus.
Meaning, you know, he has his beliefs, he has his strong views, and he just doesn't deal well or deflects views that don't comport with those. So when I say sporty or a little erratic, if he takes on some new
information that doesn't fit that world view that he had, then it can become a little sporty.
KEILAR: OK. Well, thank you so much for shedding light on certainly moments that most Americans will never be privy to.
We appreciate it, Robert Cardillo.
CARDILLO: Thank you.
KEILAR: Kentucky's attorney general says he will release a recording of the grand jury presentation in the Breonna Taylor case after a judge ordered him to do so.
This is a decision that's coming as one of the members of the grand jury accused the attorney general of misrepresenting the proceedings and filing a court motion to, in the word of their attorney, "get the truth out" about the process.
"The New York Times" reports the juror's attorney said the panel was never given an option of indicting the two officers who fired the shots that killed Taylor.
The jury, instead, indicted one officer for three charges of for wanton endangerment, not of them related to the death of Breonna Taylor.
Here is how Daniel Cameron, the Kentucky attorney general, described the grand jury decision during a press conference after the charges were announced.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL CAMERON, (R), KENTUCKY ATTORNEY GENERAL: While there are six possible homicide charges under Kentucky law, these charges are not applicable to the facts before us.
Because our investigations show, and the grand jury agreed, that Mattingly and Cosgrove were justified in their return of deadly fire, after having been fired upon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: The grand juror has requested in court that any and all recordings, transcripts and reports related to the case be released to the public.
The juror wants to have the right to speak out about the proceedings without facing contempt charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN GLOGOWER, ATTORNEY FOR ANONYMOUS GRAND JUROR: If you watched the press conference after the reading of the indictment, the attorney general laid a lot of responsibility at the grand jurors' feet. My client wants to make sure the truth gets out. My client wants to
make sure that anything that happened in there becomes something of public knowledge to the extent it's legally allowed to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Yodit Tewolde is a criminal defense attorney and a former prosecutor.
Yodit, how unusual is this for recordings, transcripts, reports from a grand jury hearing to be released to the public?
YODIT TEWOLDE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's rare but it can happen if a judge orders it.
Let me say, I've never seen a grand juror file, through counsel, a motion to have information about a grand jury proceeding made public.
This is obviously in response to that presser that was eye raising, to say the least, because the public had more questions than answers.
But I've never seen a grand juror push back like this. This is unprecedented.
KEILAR: They clearly feel like the grand jury is getting judged from the charges, right, for the indictment that was handed down.
I wonder, for you, what questions do you have that need to be answered by whatever may be released?
TEWOLDE: Well, I will say, after the decision was made public about the one officer being charged, the judge who announced the reading of the indictment, there was a flag because she didn't actually say that the grand jury returned a no bill.
Meaning there was no evidence, not sufficient enough to indict the other two officers. Usually, that's what's said.
Because she didn't say that, that made me question whether the grand jurors were even asked to consider any charges against those two officers.
Then you had the A.G. at the presser saying that the grand jurors agreed.
It seemed as though the A.G. made a predetermined conclusion and decided not to present any evidence to the grand jurors regarding those two other officers, so that was never even an option for them.
This is, again, shining a light on why grand juries are problematic. These secret, closed-door proceedings, where prosecutors can essentially hide behind this secret of a proceeding, and say, oh, the grand jurors decided this and this is why I can't do that. That's just not going to be the case.
[13:55:11] And this is why this grand juror is saying, hold on, we should be able to speak freely without having the threat of contempt charges to say what didn't happen during these proceedings.
That's going to shed some light in terms of the enthusiasm the A.G. had in presenting evidence to get indictments.
KEILAR: Yodit, thank you so much. Yodit Tewolde, we appreciate your expertise.
Just in now, Joe Biden and Senator Kamala Harris releasing their tax returns ahead of tonight's debate. What those reveal.
Plus, with just hours to go before the big presidential debate, the Trump campaign and FOX News are spewing conspiracies about Joe Biden's health. We'll fact-check those for you just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: It is the top of the hour. I'm Brianna Keilar.
[13:59:05]
And we are now five weeks from Election Day and just hours away from the first presidential debate between President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden, which you can watch here on CNN.
