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President Trump Resists Debate Prep; Trump Taxes Raise National Security Concerns; Two NFL Teams Suspend Play. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 29, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: It is the top of the hour, I'm Brianna Keilar and we are now five weeks from Election Day, and just hours away from the first presidential debate between President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden, which you can watch here on CNN.

Any minute now, the president is expected to leave the White House on his way to Cleveland, where tonight's showdown will take place. Cleveland is a city familiar with high-profile political events, but none quite like this during a pandemic. A slew of changes have been implemented because of the coronavirus, all in an effort to protect those who are involved here.

So here's what you can expect tonight. Trump and Biden will be standing on opposite sides of the stage. They won't shake hands with each other or with the moderator, Chris Wallace. There will be no opening statements. Only a small number of ticketed guests will be allowed. And everyone in attendance must undergo COVID testing. There will also be no post-debate spin room for the candidates and surrogates to claim victory and try to control the narrative.

Kaitlan Collins is our CNN White House correspondent covering this. So how's the president been preparing for the debate, Kaitlan?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Maybe not as much as somebody would expect. We are told that the president has only done kind of sporadic question-and-answer sessions, Brianna, over the last several weeks, a 30-minute session last weekend and he was doing it on Sunday, yesterday.

And we just saw Christ Christie -- who we know has been helping the president with this preparation -- leave the White House a few hours ago, so the president seems to be getting in a last-minute session before he leaves the White House.

But he hasn't done what you see other candidates do sometimes before a debate like this, which the president even did in 2016 with Chris Christie playing Hillary Clinton, where you have someone stand in as your opponent.

Instead, the president was actually pretty resistant to that idea even though advisors tried to get him to do so. And so instead, they just did those Q&A sessions. The president seems to feel that he's best when he's off the cuff, and he says that he takes questions every day so he thinks that's the best preparation.

But one thing that he's definitely going to be asked about tonight, Brianna, is that "New York Times" investigation into the president's finances, something that he has not really responded to beyond initially after it broke on Sunday and then yesterday, he deflected and did not take questions from reporters in the Rose Garden.

So this could be the one opportunity where the president and Joe Biden are on stage together, and he is going to be asked about that along with several other issues of course: the handling of the coronavirus pandemic, the racial tensions in the country and of course that newly vacant Supreme Court seat that the president is trying to fill before the election.

So those are going to be the debates, though of course there is always a mixture of uncertainty when it comes to Donald Trump being on stage.

And one thing that we've seen play out over the last several weeks is the president has tried to downplay really what to expect for Joe Biden, portraying him as unfit for office, weak, not a good candidate, not going to be a good debater.

That's something that aides have actually tried to flip the switch on in recent days because they're worried it's going to backfire on them tonight if Joe Biden does show up and they've set a pretty low bar for him, so that's another thing to watch as these two go head-to-head for 90 minutes in this room tonight -- Brianna.

KEILAR: I mean, Kaitlan, two hours of preparation? It's pretty stunning. I feel like I use that word too much, but wow.

COLLINS: Yes, two hours is not what people would expect. That's what he had done based on reporting as of yesterday. They did another one yesterday and it's not clear how long they went for today, so clearly they felt like they needed to squeeze a few more sessions in.

But it's nowhere near compared to what we've seen Joe Biden doing, where his campaign has been defending calling those early lids, which means you're not going to see the candidate any more on a daily basis for the last several days, because they've said he's preparing for Donald Trump.

So it is just certainly not the level of preparation that you would typically see from the president.

We could see a stunt from the president, though. Remember back in 2016 after the "Access Hollywood" tape published and the president then invited women who'd accused Bill Clinton to the debate to try to throw Hillary Clinton off of her game? Now his campaign aides are teasing there could be guests in attendance tonight though it's not clear who those guests might be -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, we'll be watching. Kaitlan, thank you so much, live from Cleveland for us.

There is one thing that the debate's moderator Chris Wallace won't be doing, and that is fact-checking Biden or Trump in real time, and there will likely be plenty to fact-check, right? While Biden is known to exaggerate and make gaffes, President Trump has told dozens of misleading statements and lies almost every day that he's been in office, according to a count by "The Washington Post."

Joining me now is CNN chief media correspondent and the anchor of "Reliable Sources," Brian Stelter, and also CNN political commentator and anchor of "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED," S.E. Cupp herself.

OK, Brian, I mean, when you -- I don't know how it is when you talk to people about a debate coming up, but one of the things I've heard over and over from laypeople who are getting ready to watch is that they're curious about the fact-checking and they seem to be very --

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right.

KEILAR: -- surprised when I tell them there's not going to be fact- checking. The role of the moderator in terms of calling balls and strikes is to do that when it comes to people going over time, not to tell misleading statements.

[14:05:03]

STELTER: Right, the moderator, Chris Wallace, says he wants to be as invisible as possible tonight, so that means the blizzard of lies is about to begin. And as in a blizzard, it's going to reduce visibility, people are going to get numb, and it's going to be up to Joe Biden to shovel the you-know-what.

I mean, when truth is losing, when truth is lost, Trump is winning, so it's going to be up to Biden to push back in real time because Chris Wallace is not expected to do so. The Debate Commission says they don't want him to fact-check. They say all the fact-checks will happen right after the debate.

Here's the problem with that, Brianna, that'll be true on CNN, it'll be true on NBC but I don't think viewers of "Fox News" are going to hear a ton of fact-checking after the debate. So all these lies, all these smears, they are effective within Trump world, within Fox and Trump world.

And it's really disgusting today, the lies they're putting up about Biden, saying that he might wear an earpiece, saying that he can't stand there for 90 minutes. Rudy Giuliani said he has dementia.

You know, I know politics ain't bean bag, but there is still such a thing as ethics and morality and -- call me crazy, I think some people still care about ethics and morality. And what we're seeing from the Trump campaign out of this debate is just fundamentally unethical.

KEILAR: Yes. It ain't bean bag, but it ain't sci fi either --

STELTER: Yes, come on.

KEILAR: -- and you know, S.E., most Americas -- like two thirds of Americans -- say they would like the moderator to fact-check both men. But it's -- you know, on one perspective, if you're dealing with two candidates that operate more within norms, you would say it's very tricky for them to wade in because it's like they're putting their foot on -- they're weighting in favor of one candidate perhaps over the other. But I wonder if you think it's a mistake to not have fact- checking.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. In addition to the problem you point out, it's also just a really clumsy and clunky way to put on a debate. If I'm watching from home and both candidates are being interrupted constantly by a moderator, who is doing a good job of pointing out, well, that wasn't true and actually this wasn't true, and then they'd each get a chance to respond? It's just I don't think the best use of time.

I think it's already asking a lot to have us tune in for as long as we are and as late as we are in the evening. And to Brian's point, I actually think it's just more effective to have the candidates do it themselves. For Biden to say, that's a lie, President Trump, and here's why. It's a lie because your record is weak, you can't tell the truth. Or for Trump to say, that's a lie, Joe Biden's wrong about this and here's what I have done.

I think that would go a lot farther for both candidates, voters and independents, undecideds and moderates than real-time fact-checking from the moderator.

KEILAR: And Brian, you touched on some of the baseless conspiracy theories that some of the president's supporters are throwing around. This is what Rudy Giuliani and former White House doctor Ronny Jackson have said on "Fox News."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONNY JACKSON, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FORMER PHYSICIAN: Obviously, something is going on with this man at this point. I mean, keep him locked away for 90 percent of the time, and then when they have a little window where they think he might be able to put a few sentences together, they break him out, they have him read from a teleprompter.

I think it's completely reasonable to ask if he's being medicated because he has had a few times where he's come out and he's looked a little bit more energetic than he's typically looked over the last few months.

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: The man has dementia, there's no doubt about it. I think the president is quite right to say maybe he's taking Adderall, a -- some kind of attention deficit disorder thing --

STEVE DOOCY, HOST, FOX AND FRIENDS: Right, and that's why the president wants to do a drug test. But you know, none of us are --

GIULIANI: Yes, I'd also check in the right pocket.

DOOCY: -- doctors, this is just -- that's your opinion. But -- so it will be interesting to see what happens tonight. GIULIANI: No, no, it's not just my opinion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: OK, I mean, none of this is based in fact, right? Ronny Jackson himself has shown himself to have dramatic flair at best and very un-doctorlike conduct in --

STELTER: At worst, yes.

KEILAR: -- some of his commentary, right? So "Fox News" correspondents pointed out to Rudy Giuliani, we're not doctors, but this is out there in the public. And like we're saying here, S.E., this isn't -- this is what Brian said. It's not like on "Fox News" for instance, viewers are going to get any pushback on that really -- from the president, what he says.

(CROSSTALK)

CUPP: Yes, it's really irresponsible, it's gross. It's also pretty rich considering, you know, Trump's I think pretty evident mental decline. He has trouble finishing sentences, he has trouble not veering off on tangents, late-night Twitter rants.

It's just a rich line of attack, but it is a carbon copy of what Trump did in 2016. And that lethal combination of conspiracy theories around Hillary Clinton and her health, and then some fumbles on her campaign's behalf really did cement a narrative that was not true, which was that she had everything from Parkinson's to M.S. to seizures to heart disease.

[14:10:00]

By September of 2016, the polling on concern for her health had shifted nearly 20 points. August 2016, 26 percent of people thought she was in poor health. September 2016, 42 percent of people thought she was in poor health. It didn't have to be true to become true enough.

And Biden needs to take those conspiracy theories and these smears seriously, and combat them with transparency, openness and an availability to the media that we, I think, frankly haven't seen enough.

STELTER: I think what they're --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Brian, what do you --

STELTER: -- doing is they're seeing up all the excuses ahead of time so that if Trump has a poor debate, their supporters can say, well, Biden was doping, Biden was getting answers through his earpiece. They're setting the excuses ahead of time in case Trump doesn't do well, and it's the Fox-Trump feedback loop in effect, because Fox is feeding all these ideas ahead of time. But this is why I go back to ethics, Brianna. Political professors

studied something called "asymmetric polarization," which means that right-wing voters have moved further to the right, become more polarized than left-wing voters.

The same thing is happening now in these campaigns, there's asymmetric lying and there's asymmetric nastiness. The lies and smears coming from Trump's side are so much nastier and disgusting than anything from the Biden campaign, right? The Biden campaign's just out there trying to respond to all this nuttiness in real time -- as they need to, I agree with S.E. They have to be transparent about this and know what they're up against.

They are up against people who are shamelessly lying in front of millions of viewers. And you know, look, what we can do Brianna is we can check it, we can call it out. I'm glad that's what you do, you call it out because that's the only option in this environment right now.

KEILAR: Listening to you guys, I'm just reflecting on -- you said nuttiness? This is so wild that we're even talking about this. I mean, it's a presidential debate, not --

STELTER: Right, right.

KEILAR: -- the Tour de France, this is just so bizarre. But S.E. Cupp, Brian Stelter, thank you so much to both of you, talking about this.

The president has previously proclaimed that he was the king of debt, and the "New York Times" report on his tax records confirms just that. According to the paper, the president owes more than $421 million. The big question for some of that debt it, to who is it owed? Experts and former officials are concerned. That amount of debt could give foreign leaders leverage over an American president.

The "Times" report also reveals he's made $73 million overseas since taking office. Susan Hennessey is a CNN national security and legal analyst for us, she's also a former attorney for the National Security Agency and she's a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute.

So Susan, how does this likely existence of foreign debt -- and really, debt period of this size -- offer ways that a foreign entity or government could influence the president?

SUSAN HENNESSEY, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY AD LEGAL ANALYST: Right, so we're really concerned any time that there's any source of influence over national security decisions made by the president or anyone in government, that's being made not on behalf of the national interest of the United States, but instead on personal or financial interests.

And so really what these tax returns show is, one, the extent to which, despite promising not to have any new foreign deals in office, the president continues to have substantial business interests in foreign countries, and of course this giant number, $421 million of debt that is coming payable over the next four years. The question, the reason why the American people really need to

understand who the president owes money to? Is because of course that is a source of leverage.

That is a way that a foreign country or a foreign bank, a foreign company might be able to pressure the president of the United States in order to make decisions -- important national decisions, national security decisions -- in order to obtain favorable treatment, to prevent banks or governments from foreclosing on that debt, essentially to personally enrich himself. And that's something we really, really are especially concerned about in the national security space.

KEILAR: So if we're looking at individual countries here, let's start with Turkey. Because the president made $13 million to license Trump Towers Istanbul, one million of that since he entered the White House. And as president, he has acquiesced to Turkish President Erdogan so egregiously -- this is even according to people who are normally in the president's corner.

He pulled U.S. troops out of Northern Syria, endangering American allies and troops who do still rely on them and may need to rely on them in the future. What do you think about that one?

HENNESSEY: Yes, so I think that there's good reason to be especially concerned about places like Turkey because those are the cases in which the president has made decisions that aren't just against sort of the Democrats, but actually are against the wishes of his own party, refusing for example to apply sanctions to Turkey after Turkish President Erdogan purchased a Russian missile system.

Now, the president's own national security advisor, John Bolton, after leaving the White House, suggested that he believed that the president was making that decision because of his business relationship, and his business relationships in Turkey.

[14:15:07]

Those are really, really significant consequential national decisions, and the reason why we're especially sort of should be focused on questions like Turkey is because that's a place in which Trump's policy and decision-making has actually been at odds with Republicans and congressional Republicans. And so it really, really raises the question, what is motivating those decisions?

Donald Trump has not ever articulated sort of cogent policy arguments for that, and now we have, again, this really strong appearance of a conflict of interest and a strong suggestion that what might be animating him is in fact attempting to line his own personal pocketbook, and that's a really, really serious concern.

KEILAR: Russia, as you know, has also been this constant source of suspicion. The "Times" reporting didn't expose any new transactions with Russia, but the president did make $2.3 million from the Miss Universe pageant, not too long before seeking office.

And we have seen him repeatedly take President Putin's word over that of his own American intelligence officers. How do you assess this one?

HENNESSEY: Yes, so these particular tax returns don't provide a lot of new information about what the president's relationship with Russia might look like. We do see though the amount of money he made from that Miss Universe pageant.

And we know of course that the president continued to pursue business interests in Moscow up through the election, lied about it, instructed other people to lie about including to Congress, his former personal attorney actually went to jail in part of telling lies about those big business interests.

And it returns to the heart of the question. Is the reason why Donald Trump has this otherwise inexplicable sort of affection or refusal to be tough on Russia when it is clearly in the national interest to do so, is the reason why he's not doing that because in some way he believes that it benefits his personal or financial or business interests?

And so sort of in the absence of an easier answer, sort of a simpler explanation, this is yet another reminder that this is the first president of the United States who has refused to divest from his personal business holdings, refused to engage in basic ethics and transparency rules. Things like releasing the tax returns himself.

And so his own conduct has really created all of these really, really serious questions. And they're questions that the American public, they deserved an answer to four years ago, and they deserve an answer to now, before November.

KEILAR: Yes. Susan Hennessey, thank you so much for that.

And next, two NFL teams shut down their facilities after a coronavirus outbreak.

Also, a Senate candidate in Maine used his opening statement at a debate to cut up a bunch of face masks, which help stop the spread of coronavirus. What's that about?

[14:17:49]

Plus, I'll be speaking to a political analyst who says we'd be wrong to underestimate President Trump on the debate stage tonight, even though he's only prepared for what appears to be a couple of hours. He's going to explain why, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: A sudden coronavirus outbreak has forced the Tennessee Titans and the Minnesota Vikings to temporarily shut down their facilities. CNN Sports' Andy Scholes is following this for us.

Andy, what have you learned?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, three weeks into the season, the NFL has not had to make any scheduled changes yet because of coronavirus, but that may soon change.

The NFL, the Players Association announcing this morning that the Tennessee Titans had three players and five staff members test positive for COVID-19. And because of that, they're suspending in- person club activities for today.

The Titans played the Vikings on Sunday, so the Vikings, also suspending in-club activities. In the statement, they said, "Both clubs are working closely with the NFL and the NFL Players Association including our infectious disease experts, to evaluate close contacts, perform additional testing and monitor developments. All decisions will be made with health and safety as our primary consideration."

And Brianna, as for now, the Vikings are scheduled to travel to Houston to play the Texans on Sunday, while the Titans are scheduled to host the Pittsburgh Steelers.

KEILAR: All right, Andy, thank you so much.

And joining me now is family medicine doctor Adrian Burrowes. Dr. Burrowes, thank you for being with us.

ADRIAN BURROWES, FAMILY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: Thank you.

KEILAR: You're watching this all happen, is the NFL doing enough to protect its players?

BURROWES: So I think that the NFL should be given credit for having a system in place to identify and test the players. I certainly think that this is definitely a move in the right direction. It's a far cry from where we started when sports returned to the general public, so I do have to commend them on doing at least this to try to protect the players.

KEILAR: OK, and you know, some stadiums have opened up to fans. And look, there are so many fans out there who -- I mean, this is -- they just would love to go, right? They've been stuck inside, they want to go see their team play. What would your advice be to people who do want to go?

BURROWES: So I think that you know, if they're going to allow fans, we should still be operating at minimal capacity, probably like a tenth of capacity, where you can really social distance the fans. I know the fans want to go back, I certainly want to go back. But I do think that because there are so many asymptomatic individuals out there, that it's possible they'll be transferring this person to person without you even knowing it.

So I think that we're still a little ways away from really when we should be doing that. And so I still think we should be social distancing.

KEILAR: I'm sure as a family medicine physician, you're keeping your eye trained on schools that are reopening. There's a former member of the task force who admitted to CNN that she saw pressure put on the CDC this past summer to downplay coronavirus risks to children as the president was pushing to reopen schools. This is what Olivia Troye said.

[14:25:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER MEMBER, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: In terms of the manipulation of the data, it was people within the White House specifically tasking more junior-level staff to try to find alternate data, that fit the narrative that they wanted, which was it only affects, you know, people above the age of 75, and it doesn't affect younger schoolchildren. It was all part of the narrative of we need to open up these schools, we need to open them up now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I've been speaking with teachers, Dr. Burrowes, and when they heard this report I think they were floored. They felt like they could trust the CDC, they felt like they could kind of read in between the lines to see what they needed to know from the government, but this has shaken a lot of them. So just set the record straight for us, what are the risks to children?

BURROWES: So before I say on that, the CDC is the nation's health protection agency to save lives and to protect the people from health threats, OK? They're supposed to be above reproach. So if in fact that is correct, then the CDC are doing the citizens a disservice.

And I think that the CDC has always been the pre-eminent scientific institution, and I think that they should not be -- allowed themselves to be used as a puppet by politicians, that -- so I want to say that first.

Second, so in terms of my opinion on children returning to schools, you know, I think that a lot of parents are sending their children to school sick, which should not be allowed. I think that there should still be testing of children so that we know the risks of child-to- child as well as the risk of the children giving it to the teachers.

So I still think we should be doing virtual schools, you know, nationwide. And then when we have the students in schools, that they should be operating at, again, on a revolving schedule so there's a minimal capacity.

KEILAR: And when it comes to -- look, a lot of schools are not testing. Do they need to be taking temperatures? I mean, I know that won't catch a lot of kids but it could catch some, so is that something that should be done?

BURROWES: I believe that, yes. You know, when -- in my health care field, every building that we walk into as providers, we get a temperature check. You know, at least that. And so I do believe they should be checking the children's temperature just to be sure.

KEILAR: Yes. Look, there are schools that are not doing that, it's wild. I mean, it's sort of like defies belief.

Doctor, I want to ask your opinion of something that we've seen from a candidate who's running for Senate in Maine, and was debate on Monday night. And one of the independent candidates actually opened up with this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX LINN (I), MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: I respect everybody who wants to wear a mask, I respect businesses who want to wear a mask. But businesses and people should make the choices. As I said at my opening, what we have here is way too much government overreach.

And so again, symbolically, I want to cut these masks right in front of our viewers, I want to be the first senate candidate -- and your first senator in the United States -- to say, I protest government telling us what we have to wear, and telling us what our businesses are necessary and what are unnecessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What's your reaction to that stunt?

LINN: So I think it's stupidity, that's my reaction to that stunt. I think that when you're in a position of power, you want to do what you can to protect the community.

People -- just so everybody's clear, the people wearing the masks are the good guys, they're the ones who are trying to protect people from them, right? And that type of political posturing shows me that that person doesn't have any respect for the people around him, right? Or respect for the general public. So I have one word for that, and it's "stupidity."

KEILAR: Yes. I don't think he should be trusted with scissors, to be frank.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Dr. Adrian Burrowes, thank you so much.

And still ahead, I'm going to speak to Tallahassee police about a party they broke up with more than a thousand people near the campus of Florida State.

[14:29:02]

Plus, President Trump's pick for the Supreme Court, Amy Coney Barrett, on Capitol Hill today with Republican senators, and there were some awkward moments as reporters asked about her controversial nomination.

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