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Trump Mocks Biden on Masks; Pandemic Could Wipe out Airline Jobs; Undecided Voters Weigh in on Debate. Aired 9:30-10a
Aired September 30, 2020 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:31:16]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.
Well, this morning, we are now past 206,000 deaths from Covid in the United States, but the coronavirus pandemic was surprisingly not really front and center in the debate last night. Joe Biden took the opportunity to criticize the president's handling of the crisis. The president subsequently mocked Joe Biden for some of the times he wears a mask.
Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Just at your rallies.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I wear masks when needed. When needed I wear masks.
CHRIS WALLACE, MODERATOR: OK, let me ask --
TRUMP: I don't have -- I don't wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask.
BIDEN: Masks make a big difference. His own head of the CDC said if we just wore masks between now -- if they're -- everybody wore a mask and social distanced between now and January, we'd probably save up to 100,000 lives. It matters. It matters.
TRUMP: And they've also said the opposite. They've also said the opposite.
BIDEN: And no -- no serious person said the opposite. No serious person.
TRUMP: Well, look --
WALLACE: All right, I want to as you --
TRUMP: Look at Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci said the opposite. BIDEN: He did not say the opposite.
WALLACE: I -- I want to as you, we've got a --
TRUMP He said --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: A totally unfair attack on Dr. Fauci.
There with us now is professor of medical at George Washington University and our medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner.
Dr. I'm not going to ask you to, you know, weigh in on the politics here, but I will ask you what you think the health implications are for the American people that there is still not a clear message from the president on masks.
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Poppy.
HARLOW: Good morning.
REINER: The president never -- the president never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. It was a -- it was to use his parlance. It was a two-inch putt last night. All he needed to say were -- was, masks are incredibly important, I encourage everyone in the country to wear one when they go out. I mean this is -- this is 10 cents and -- and the vice president was right, if everyone wore one, it would save 100,000 lives between now and Christmas.
It's been a mixed message from the beginning. It's the single biggest mistake made by this administration in the pandemic amidst just a plethora of mistakes that stands out above all.
But the president is incapable of back tracking or realizing that he needs to solidify this message. Instead, he doubles down and triples down. He just simply needs to say, for the -- for the needs of the public, he needs to say, everyone needs to wear a mask. That's our way out. And that's our way towards normalcy and that's our way towards reinvigorating the economy. It's a simple 10 cent mask.
HARLOW: Listen to this moment when they were discussing the death toll, right, the more than 7 million cases in this country, the more than 200,000 deaths. And here's what Joe Biden said about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: When he was presented with that number, he said it is what it is. Well, it is what it is because you are who you are. That's why it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: What did you make of that from, again, a public health perspective? REINER: I mean I thought it was -- it was devastating and I thought
there was a sentence that should have followed that, it is what it is because you are who you are and what you failed to do. That's really -- that's really what it was, and what you failed to do and what your administration failed to do and what you continue to fail to do.
And that, to me -- I mean, this is -- this is the biggest event -- I mean I'm a physician and I'm about to go to clinic now and wear two masks and a face shield in clinic to see people in the office. And -- and this is the reality that I live and everyone else in this country lives. And, you know, last night's circus, you know, really created a lot of fog. But the truth is that we're in the midst of the worst pandemic, the worst public health crisis and we -- it is what it is because of the failure to implement effective policy.
[09:35:04]
And we keep making these mistakes.
HARLOW: Yes, you're right, there's so much -- so much more that could have been -- but so much more that can still be done and that's why the message every day now is so important.
REINER: Right.
HARLOW: Dr. Jonathan Reiner, we'll let you get to clinic, and thanks for being here this morning.
REINER: My pleasure. Thank you.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, tens of thousands of airline workers are facing furlough tomorrow. This as new research shows that worldwide the pandemic could wipe out 46 million aviation jobs. We're going to have the CEO of American Airlines, Doug Parker. He joins us next.
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SCIUTTO: Welcome back.
It is a crucial day for stimulus talks. It means that it's a crucial day for Americans who might be losing their jobs.
[09:40:03]
Speaker Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin are still trying to cut a deal. Airlines in particular, they're bracing because tens of thousands of workers face furlough tomorrow without action.
Joining us now is the CEO of American Airlines, Doug Parker, among the airlines that plans to let go thousands of people tomorrow.
Mr. Parker, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.
DOUG PARKER, CEO, AMERICAN AIRLINES: Thank you for having me. SCIUTTO: So Steve Mnuchin just said moments ago that he and Speaker Pelosi are meeting again. They're going to take one more serious try, in his words, that he's hopeful for a deal and that's going to speak to airline executives, yourself included, about the possibility of postponing those scheduled furloughs tomorrow.
Are you willing to postpone those furloughs?
PARKER: Well, we're happy to hear that they're making progress. That's by far the preferred path for all of us. The CARES -- what's going on here is that the CARES Act had in it a payroll support program to keep critical infrastructure in place, keeps we airlines employs all of our -- all of our team, even though there's not enough work for them right now. But we will -- so we're here to provide the necessary infrastructure as the economy rebounds to be sure we have the infrastructure in place.
But, anyway, that does expire tomorrow. There's huge bipartisan support for extending it. What we need, though, is a vehicle. So, yes, it's encouraging to hear that they are making progress. Obviously we'll be interested in what the secretary has to say and hopefully there's a clear and --
SCIUTTO: If he asked you --
PARKER: Yes?
SCIUTTO: If he asks you to postpone, he says, listen, we don't have a deal yet, we're getting close. If he asks you to postpone, will you postpone those furloughs? Thousands of American Airlines employees, I imagine, they're listening.
PARKER: Oh, absolutely. Look, the last thing we want to do is furlough employees. That's why we've been fighting so hard for them to come to an agreement.
SCIUTTO: OK.
PARKER: So, at any rate, hard for me to tell you until we hear -- until we know where they are. But, certainly, if there is a, you know, a clear and concrete path that says, you know, we're not quite done yet, but we will be done soon, of course. If it's -- if it's -- you know, we just were -- we need, you know, much more time to work and unclear as to whether that will be the -- whether we can get something done or not, that's going to be -- that's obviously going to be much harder.
SCIUTTO: OK.
PARKER: So it's hard for me to say until we hear more, but really encouraged by the fact that it sounds like they're making real progress. That is absolutely the right path for airlines and I think actually for our country.
SCIUTTO: OK, and I imagine a lot of your employees think that's good news as well. I do want to note that American Airlines finalized a $5.5 billion loan
agreement with the government just a couple of weeks ago. This in addition to $4.7 billion in July.
Why can't you use that money to stave off these layoffs, these furloughs?
PARKER: Well, again, that's -- that's the first -- that was -- those -- what just happened, the $5.5 billion is -- is indeed from CARES one. CARES one had $50 billion for airlines, $25 billion in loans. That's what that was, just not (INAUDIBLE). So that's -- that's -- that's simply the news from the first CARES Act getting closed.
The other piece you mentioned was this payroll support plan, which was compensation to airlines for six months to -- to keep people employed even though there's not enough work for them to continue services in small cities, even though there's not enough demand for those cities.
That's what expires tomorrow. So, again, everyone, again, agrees that that should be extended. I'm certain if there's any agreement between the speaker and the secretary that we will be included. So, hopefully, that's what -- that's what will happen. But that's -- that's what -- that's what's required actually for -- for payroll support to be extended in some legislation.
SCIUTTO: OK.
The Air Transportation Action Group, it's estimating that air travel will not return to its pre-pandemic levels until the year 2024. I just wonder, are you living in effect from paycheck to paycheck here, right, in terms of government support, or will you need, you and other airlines need to restructure fundamentally, right? I mean that the -- is the reality that these jobs aren't coming back right away because the passengers aren't coming back.
PARKER: Yes. Well, again, it's -- we don't expect certainly, you know, six months from now, demand will return to where it was pre-pandemic. But what we do know is demand is coming back gradually. What we're dealing with six months from now certainly one would expect that there were -- you know, things like quarantines and, you know, people working from home will be lessened.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
PARKER: And we don't need full recovery of demand to 100 percent of what it used to be. I mean we -- we need, you know, in recessions you don't see airlines ground aircraft like we're doing today.
[09:45:03]
It -- you know, it -- so if indeed what I anticipate will happen, which is we -- we continue to see gradual improvement over the next six months to where demand is much closer, you know, it doesn't need to be -- it doesn't need to be where we're all the way recovered by any means but say 80 percent of what it used to be, then we will -- we would -- we would be flying all of our airplanes, we would need to employ the people that we still have employed and this would be sufficient.
So, yes, I -- I happen to believe that this six-month extension will be sufficient for us to, by that point, keep -- to keep everyone employed, to meet demand as it comes back, keep that infrastructure in place and not need to do this again in the future.
SCIUTTO: OK. A safety question, if I can ask you.
The -- I've flown, not often, but I've flown a couple of times. I've been impressed with measures being taken, mask wearing, et cetera. I imagine you're watching the data very closely. Have you seen any data of coronavirus spreading on your flights because, for instance, your airline no longer blocking middle seats. Watching the data, have you seen anything to concern you yet?
PARKER: Oh, absolutely not. And to the contrary, I've seen really encouraging data. You know, we have -- we've seen nothing, nor have we heard from CDC, any cases of the virus being spread on an aircraft. And probably the best -- the best indication I can give you is we obviously track our crews.
You know, pilots and flight attendants who fly three times a day, three days a week -- three or four days a week. And the Covid rates amongst our flight attendants and pilots is well below the national average and lower than the -- for our -- for airline employees that aren't flying airplanes.
But the aircraft, you know, the air is -- the air is recirculating every two to three minutes. It goes through HEPA air filters. People are wearing masks. It's an incredibly safe environment in that regard because of all those measures.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
PARKER: And we see that -- we see that again in the Covid rates for our flight attendants as well.
SCIUTTO: There's notable. I had not heard that. Lower Covid rates for staff than for the national average.
Doug Parker, listen, we know you've got a lot of tough times ahead and for the people who work for American Airlines, we wish you and we wish them the best of luck.
PARKER: Thank you. We all appreciate it. I know they do. Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: We'll be right back.
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[09:51:44]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back.
Ultimately, of course, this election is up to the voters, to you. And so we are looking at what undecided voters, and there aren't many of them in this election left, thought of this debate.
HARLOW: Ana Cabrera was on the ground in Westerville, Ohio, just kind of a key state in every election. And she spoke to some who have still not made up their minds getting their real time reactions.
Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Show of hands if you've decided who you will vote for.
CABRERA (voice over): That was before all the action, before this happened.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I want to make sure --
CHRIS WALLACE, MODERATOR: Mr. President, can you let him finish, sir.
BIDEN: The question is --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: New Supreme Court justice, radical left.
BIDEN: The question -- will you shut up, man?
TRUMP: Who is on -- listen --
CABRERA (on camera): Why did you feel like it was disastrous?
KEVIN, UNDECIDED VOTER: Well, President Trump clearly has control issues and he couldn't stop his anger.
CABRERA: What was going through your mind?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was -- it was frustrating. I thought it would have been nice to hear someone's response, but it just got -- like there was just too much going on and I just ended up kind of turning both of them off.
BIDEN: Folks, do you have an idea what this clown is doing?
TRUMP: We do. And under that plan you'll socialize -- they call it --
CABRERA: How did that resonate with you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like, you know, he's the commander in chief. You've got to respect him. Whether you like him or you don't like him, he's still the president of the United States. He should be address as such.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was like watching my own children having a disagreement at home and having -- you know, I kept having these urges to want to step in and, you know, use my mom voice.
CABRERA (voice over): This group watching the debate in an outdoor venue because of the coronavirus wanted to hear plans for dealing with the pandemic.
BIDEN: And 200,000 dead.
TOM, UNDECIDED VOTER AND SMALL BUSINESS OWNER: I thought it was very disingenuous of Biden to blame the deaths on Trump. I thought that was just totally wrong.
CABRERA (on camera): Are you confident in Trump's leadership currently with the pandemic?
TOM: I think that -- I think he's following the science.
KEVIN: We're leading the world in people who died because of coronavirus, because our national response has been bad. It's been poor. It's been spotty. It hasn't been well lead.
CABRERA: Do you feel Joe Biden had a vision for how he would lead?
KEVIN: You know, that's a hypothetical question and I don't really honestly think anybody can answer. He wasn't -- he wasn't in place.
CABRERA: What about the economy and what you heard tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the numbers don't lie. The unemployment rate went down to one of the lowest rates it's ever been before the pandemic started.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's where Trump, I think, is the strongest is in the economy. He did create jobs. We've seen that. We've seen the lowest unemployment in years.
CABRERA (voice over): But when it comes to questions about taxes, specifically Trump's taxes --
TRUMP: One of the papers said I paid -- I paid $38 million one year.
BIDEN: Show us your tax returns.
TRUMP: I paid $27 million one year.
BIDEN: Show us your tax returns.
CABRERA (on camera): Did you feel like he answered the questions you might have on that issue?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Um -- no. There was -- there was a lot of not answering questions, which is frustrating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't care how much he paid as long as it's a legal avenue to go upon. I know that there are billionaires who pay less taxes than other people because they have different, you know, deductions and things like that. But be honest about it.
CABRERA (voice over): They voters were more concerned about the racial divide in the country and liked Joe Biden's unifying message. BIDEN: It's about equity and equality. It's about decency. It's about
the Constitution. And we have never walked away from trying to require equity for everyone, equality for the whole of America.
[09:55:07]
TRUMP: You have treated the black community about as bad as anybody in this country. You did the 19 -- and that's why, if you look at the polls, I'm doing better than any Republican has done in a long time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a person of color, it's my life. I -- there's no way to avoid it or to get around it. So seeing a leader who doesn't necessarily speak on that, as President Trump didn't do during this debate, was disappointing.
CABRERA (on camera): What more do you need from either of these candidates?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just -- I'm looking for transparency and accountability.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want someone to speak to the issues, no banter, no back and forth. I want -- I think I'm going to get my answers by researching myself and reading. I don't think that the debate, any future debate, is going to be any different than tonight. I wish it was, but I don't think it will be.
CABRERA (voice over): Ana Cabrera, Westerville, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Our thanks to Ana for that reporting.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: We are waiting on Joe Biden. He's set to speak in just a few minutes. He's going to begin this train tour through Ohio, where those voters you just heard from were, and Pennsylvania. We'll bring that to you right -- right -- right away.
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