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Trump Campaigns In Minnesota, Biden In Ohio, Pennsylvania; Constant Interruptions, Insults Mar Presidential Debate; First Debate Devolves Into Messy, Personal Attacks. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 30, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:20]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you so much for sharing a very, very busy news day with us.

It is the morning after the presidential debate debacle and the candidates are hitting the trail. The Democratic nominee Joe Biden starting a campaign train tour winding through Ohio and Pennsylvania. Moments ago, last hour, his first reaction to a debate that veered sharply towards unhinged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He basically looks down on us. He judges us. He's too weak to beat the pandemic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: President Trump this afternoon heads to battleground Minnesota. His morning tweets trying to distract you from a petulant, rude debate performance that even close allies called too hot and that right now is making America the butt of jokes and worse, around the world today.

The coronavirus reminding us yet again we are in a most unusual campaign. 12 states reported 1,000 plus new infections on Tuesday and the daily average of new infections is now up dramatically from two weeks ago.

The virus played a feature role in last night's debate, a shell shocking affair that was thin on policy, complete sentences and self- control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- Supreme Court justices. Radical left.

BIDEN: The question is -- will you shut up, man?

TRUMP: Listen, who is on your list, Joe? Who's on your list.

CHRIS WALLACE, PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE MODERATOR: Gentlemen, I think we've ended this - BIDEN: This is so unpresidential.

TRUMP: He's going to pack the court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: In a morning after tweet, the president ignores his own rule breaking and his own rudeness writing off the Cleveland mayhem as two on one and calling it a tough night for the moderator, Chris Wallace. The Democratic House speaker, though, well she saw it very differently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: We saw a political nervous breakdown, a meltdown and a -- an appeal to his - part of his base. He is intimidating people and that is really an argument for people to vote by mail, vote early, vote by mail. Don't be intimidated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Did the debate change anything is the big question and it usually takes a few days to know for sure. The first debate was a giant opportunity for the president to try to reset a race that he is losing, coming in, Trump advisers said goal number one was to make the race more about Biden and less about the incumbent, but the president's constant insults and interruptions made the night very much about him and about who he is.

The debate was often hard to hear. The arguments, hard to discern over the constant chaos. Biden won the post-debate instant polls and his team believes he did find a few chances to look past the president and to speak directly to Americans at home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: You folks at home, how many of you got up this morning and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died of COVID? How many of you were in a situation where you lost your mom or dad and you couldn't even speak to them and had a nurse holding a phone up so you can, in fact, say good-bye?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Here's one takeaway, the president struggles with basic questions about big issues. The pandemic was one example of that, white supremacy and other. The moderator asked him plainly to condemn it. The president acted confused.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: White supremacist and right-wing militia.

TRUMP: Proud boys, stand back and stand by.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: With us to share their reporting and their insights, CNN's Dana Bash and Dan Balz of "The Washington Post."

Dan, I want to start with you because of the headline over your piece this morning, Trump sets the tone for the worst presidential debate in living memory. It was chaotic. It was disrespectful. It was a lot of things. Do we believe it changed anything, I guess, is the question this morning after?

DAN BALZ, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, it's hard to think that this debate is going to change much of anything. I think, John, if it does change it, it will change it in the direction of Joe Biden or away from President Trump.

As you mentioned at the top, this was an opportunity for the president to come in and begin to reshape this race which is tilted against him. And instead, he did everything he could to make the race a continuation of what it has been which is a referendum on him.

I mean he came in and set a very destructive tone and carried that throughout and Vice President Biden got swept up in that. I think he had a better night than Donald Trump. But overall, I think if you look at the kind of the reactions of most people, it was that it was almost unwatchable. That they wanted to turn away from it. And I think in the end that is going to be harmful to the president.

KING: Harmful to the president, often the largest audience is the first debate and the president, Dana, needed to reset the dynamics to change the dynamics of this race.

[11:05:00]

Obviously, the biggest issue in the country is the coronavirus. They did not get to spend any detailed time on it because -- mainly because the president kept interrupting anytime anything he didn't like came up - anytime anything came up but especially anytime anything he didn't like came up, he interrupted. But I want you to listen to one exchange here. Joe Biden trying to make a case on the pandemic and more broadly saying the president's handling of the pandemic should convince you, you can't believe anything he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: This is the same man who told you -

TRUMP: It's all set up.

BIDEN: -- by Easter, this would be gone away. By the warm weather, it'd be gone. Miraculous, like a miracle. And by the way, maybe you could inject some bleach in your arm, and that would take care of it.

TRUMP: We got the gowns. We got the masks. We made the ventilators. You wouldn't have made ventilators. And now we're weeks away from a vaccine. We're doing therapeutics already. Fewer people are dying when they get sick. Far fewer people are dying. We've done a great job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The last part, we've done a great job. Look at the numbers today. We'll get to more of them and the matter is in dispute. But that was about -- that was about as substantive as it got. The vice president trying to make the case, judge this president on this pandemic.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You're absolutely right. My understanding in talking to sources familiar with the president's prep is that he was ready to talk more substance. He was prepared to talk more substance, to talk beyond the things that we hear him say over and over again about you know stopping flights coming in from China, to talk more deeply about things that he's done that he feels has not gotten attention, but he didn't get it out or it was completely overshadowed by his own interruptions, by his own performance and that is true every step of the way.

I have not talked to one person either -- in any part of the circle around Donald Trump who is not tearing their hair out this morning and it started last night as they were watching because he -- they feel just as they have over the past four years, frankly, that there are good stories to tell, but he can't get out of his own way to tell the stories.

Case in point, he stood on that stage four years ago and said these trade deals are terrible, and what has he done? He's actually renegotiated NAFTA. I didn't hear that at all last night. It's not that he didn't prepare to do that, he did, he just got too aggressive like a steam roller and nobody could hear anything else.

KING: So, Dan, let's continue on that point because we all understand presidential campaigns. The president is the incumbent right now. He's trailing by eight points or so on average in the national polls. He's trailing when you go through the litany of battleground states even in places like Ohio, maybe Iowa, maybe even Texas, Georgia or in play -- Florida in play for the Democrats because of the president's struggling poll numbers.

As Dana noted and as you noted, he comes in and tried to make it more about Biden or at least trying to reach out to the groups with whom you're struggling. Women, for example, his own blue-collar workers for example. Instead, this is Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey who helped him some of debate prep saying, we had a plan and then this happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: Listen, you come in and decide you want to be aggressive. And I think that was the right thing to be aggressive, but that was too hot. And so, I think that what happens is with all that heat as you said before, you lose the light. That potentially can't be fixed, maybe, maybe not. We'll have to see.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: It's that last part. Look, he knows the president, maybe, maybe not. We'll have to see. The aides try all the time, pay no attention to the president's tweets. Watch, the president going to do this. Donald Trump does what he wants and that's what we saw last night, who he is.

BALZ: You know when - when the person who is helping to lead the debate preparation acknowledges a, that it was not a good performance and b, that it might not be correctable you know you got a major problem on your hands. And you know one can have some sympathy for the people who are trying in the campaign to run a more disciplined campaign, but if the president of the United States decides what he wants to do is different than that he's going to go ahead and do it.

And it's certainly typical of the way President Trump has operated throughout his presidency. He's had people around him who have tried to advise him -- excuse me, tried to advise him, tried to steer him in the right direction and he goes off and does whatever he chooses.

So, I think that's the challenge for the next debate. The next debate, as you know is the town hall debate. The kind of behavior that he exhibited on the debate stage last night will go down very badly with the studio audience and the larger audience of Americans watching presumably.

KING: Without a doubt. And Dana, so Joe Biden's calling card, what they believe -- his campaign believes is his great advantage in this race is that he has personal stories, he has empathy, he has direct appeals and he did try. Look, it was hard for any of them to break through last night but one thing the Biden campaign is happy about, on several occasions he was able to ignore the president, look straight into the camera and the Biden campaign believes exchanges like this help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Look, you folks at home how many of you got up this morning and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died of COVID?

He knew this was happening, knew how dangerous it was going to be back in February, and he didn't even tell you.

[11:10:04]

You folks at home, you folks living in Scranton and Claymont and all the small towns and working-class towns in America, how well are you doing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Again, we won't know really for a few days what impacted people out in America? Washington's conversation is often a little disconnected from what happens out in America but coming in we knew Biden's advantage is in the few moments like that where he did have a chance. That was where he was trying to play to what we do know are his strengths. BASH: That's right. And my reporting is that he practiced doing exactly that. Breaking the third wall, looking into the camera like the three of us are right now and it really benefited him given the kind of atmosphere he was in because it was so hot, to use Chris Christie's words, and you had Donald Trump kind of you know visibly breathing down his neck to be able to turn and ignore him was very helpful.

I would just add one other moment to that - to that the mix you just played which was when Donald -- when he was talking about his son who died from cancer, but was a military veteran and talking very passionately about him, instead of taking a moment, from Donald Trump's point of view, taking a moment and saying I can't imagine what it's like to lose a child. My children are here. I can't imagine.

He didn't even have that. He went straight at him and started attacking him on a son that is alive, on Hunter Biden and then Joe Biden used again, this is something I'm told was not part of the prep and it's not something Joe Biden talks about very much at all and used that to again look into the camera and say my son had a drug problem.

I'm sure a lot of you out there can relate to that. He's working through it. That was a moment, one of many, many moments that Donald Trump handed to Joe Biden on a silver platter.

KING: Well, let's look at that moment because we all knew coming in and we knew this from the 2016 debates with Hillary Clinton that one way Donald Trump tries to address his weaknesses is by tearing the other person down. He looks for ways to question your character, question your ethics. And so, that exchange was actually quite telling. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't know, Beau. I know Hunter. Hunter got thrown -- Hunter got thrown out of the military. He was thrown out, dishonorably discharged.

BIDEN: That's not true he was not dishonorably discharged.

TRUMP: For cocaine use.

BIDEN: My son like a lot of people, like a lot of people you know at home had a drug problem. He's overtaking it. He's fixed it. He's worked on it. And I'm proud of him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The former vice president, Dan, went on to say he hopes this is not about either family, the Trump family or the Biden family but it's about the two candidates and their policies, but Hunter Biden in many ways is a weakness for the former vice president because of his work. He was a I'll call - I'll call that he's a swamp creature like many people trading in his family name to make money around the world. But the way the president that, did he, as Dana notes, actually give the vice president a way to come out of that from a different perspective. BALZ: He certainly did. I mean when Joe Biden is talking about the death of Beau Biden and the president of the United States says I don't know Beau, I know Hunter. I mean the total lack of compassion as Dana suggested of any empathy, of any sympathy. He -- if he wanted to make a pivot, he could have said something about Beau Biden, but instead he was so intent on bringing up Hunter Biden and trying to drive that, but I mean step back for a minute.

In a country going through the problems that this country is going through, the idea that Hunter Biden becomes a central part of the president's message in the campaign is quite astounding.

KING: And just a quick check before we go and this is the day after, right? So, we'll all check our sources in different states around the country. I just want to hold up a few of these. This is where the debate was. Cleveland, battleground Ohio, "The Plain Dealer," state the president won pretty comfortably last time in play. This time, insults and interruptions.

Arizona, another state the president won last time that is in play this time. We lean at Joe Biden's way right now. You see the front page here in "The Arizona Republic."

What is the sense, Dana, on the morning after? You mentioned team Trump not happy. They don't think the president achieved what they wanted going in. They will get data soon enough. What is their morning after take?

BASH: Try to find a way to recalibrate and hope that the president, my understanding is that there were a lot of conversations from the people around the president trying to figure out the best way to come at him to explain to him that there was nothing good about that debate. He's a very voracious consumer of cable news.

I'm guessing he's gotten that message because there's nobody, even his staunchest supporters on this network and on the one that usually gives some applause who has said - not nobody but most people have said that that was a terrible debate.

One example of the kind of what's happening in the real world, I talked to a Republican source in Iowa during the debate who is seeing internal numbers and that they're very concerned not just about the president, but about a key Senate race there, Joni Ernst.

KING: Right.

[11:15:00]

BASH: And that this kind of performance from the president hurts him big time in a state like that.

KING: Similar incoming from North Carolina, the suburban area around Durham as well last night. Dana Bash, Dan Balz, grateful for the reporting and insights on this important morning after. We will continue. We're under five weeks until we start counting the votes.

Up next, we get some perspective from the Biden campaign. Cedric Richmond is the national co-chairman. He joins us in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Joe Biden entered last night's debate as the front-runner and was seen as the winner in the post-debate instant polls. His campaign believes he did make key points on healthcare and the coronavirus. Making any point was hard because of constant interruptions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Donald would you just be quiet for a minute.

TRUMP: And you don't know her -

[11:20:00]

BIDEN: -- an idea what this clown is doing?

TRUMP: Listen --

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: Will you shut up, man?

That was really a productive segment, wasn't it?

Keep yapping, man.

Will he just shush for a minute? It's hard to get any word in with this clown -- excuse me, this person.

TRUMP: Hey, let me just say -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us now is a Democratic Congressman Cedric Richmond of Louisiana. He's the national co-chair of the Biden campaign. Congressman, it's good to see you today. I appreciate your time.

You could see the former vice president's frustration there repeatedly and understandably the president wouldn't let him complete a sentence. There were some immediately after who said forget about it, it's not worth it. If that's the way the president is going to behave, Joe Biden especially because he's leading in this race, should just say never mind, I'm not going to do the next two debates. Is there any serious thought of that in the campaign?

REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D-LA): Look, that's the decision that the vice president will make and I think that there's legitimate concern that people around the world are laughing at America because of Donald Trump. People in America have less confidence in our government because of Donald Trump and his antics, but knowing Vice President Biden, you tell him a time and a place and he's going to be there.

KING: Are you certain about that? I asked the question because it did come up last night. I know the campaign said immediately he has every intention to be there. I just want to be clear in the sense that some would say look, it's not worth it. You can't get a complete thought in. Others would say, if he said, no, I'm not going come that the bully would chase him out of the park.

RICHMOND: Well, look, I believe that there's probably a no-win situation, but it's - it's for the vice president decide -- to decide whether he believes that his message of a plan on COVID, empowering people, bringing back the economy got through. And I think some people heard that last night. But what was clear was that there was a stark difference. And I'm sure that there may be those out there wondering. But as of now, what I know, we intend to be at every presidential debate that they have, the remaining two.

KING: As you know coming in, and you could see it last night, one of the president's strategies is to say you know Joe Biden is a puppet. That's the term he has used before. That Bernie Sanders, Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, they run the Democratic Party. Joe Biden is just their candidate. On a couple of issues last night, healthcare and the Green New Deal the vice president said no. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Your party wants to go socialist medicine and socialist healthcare.

BIDEN: The party is me. Right now, I am the Democratic Party.

TRUMP: And they're going to dominate you, Joe.

BIDEN: I beat Bernie Sanders.

TRUMP: Not by much.

BIDEN: I beat him by a whole hell of a lot.

TRUMP: Not by much.

BIDEN: I'm here standing facing you, old buddy.

TRUMP: If Pocahontas --

BIDEN: I don't' support the Green New Deal.

TRUMP: Oh, you don't? Oh, well, that's a big statement.

BIDEN: I support -

TRUMP: You just lost the radical left.

BIDEN: I support the Biden plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So, you can read that two ways. There are some who say that's Joe Biden firmly saying I'm a centered left Democrat, yes, I listen to Bernie Sanders and AOC, but I run the party now and I'm more moderate. There are others who say that might cost him some turnout questions that maybe progressives will now say, we should be doubting Joe Biden. We should doubt whether he's with us. How do you read that?

RICHMOND: Well, I think it was very clear what the vice president was saying that he has a plan. He has a plan on climate change. He has a plan on expanding the Affordable Care Act.

So, look, Donald Trump would prefer to run against anybody except Joe Biden. And so, I think that was Joe Biden reminding him, look at me. I'm the guy you're running against and I put my name on a climate change plan. I put my name on a healthcare plan. So we're going to debate, debate my plans because I am your opponent and this is where the Democratic Party is.

And I think that that's simply what he was trying to convey to the president, but again, this is a president who hears what he wants to hear and he's trying to pick a bogeyman. I mean we could have easily responded that we were talking about puppets that Donald Trump has been Putin's puppet since day one.

But I think that the vice president was trying to show America that he has a plan for climate change. It's on our website. He has a plan for healthcare which is expanding the public option. That's on our website. So, don't listen to Donald Trump and his rhetoric. Listen to what the vice president is saying and what his plan is.

KING: Another flash point was the Supreme Court nomination and the vice president has a pretty clear strategy. President Trump has tried to pressure him to put out a list of who he might appoint if he wins the president and the president said no, no, let's have the election first and then we'll deal with that, there is a lot of pressure as you know from liberals in your party to say look, if they want to confirm Judge Coney Barrett before the election, then we're going to vote to expand the Supreme Court to put more justices on the court.

We're going to vote in the Senate to end the filibuster. They tried to get some answers out of the vice president last night. Listen, he said not now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Are you willing to tell the American people tonight whether or not you will support either ending the filibuster or packing the court.

[11:25:00]

BIDEN: Whatever position I take on that, that'll become the issue. The issue is the American people should speak. You should go out and vote. You're voting now. Vote and let your Senators know strongly how you feel.

TRUMP: Are you going to pack the court?

BIDEN: Vote now.

TRUMP: Are you going to pack the court?

BIDEN: Make sure you, in fact, let people know, your senators.

TRUMP: He doesn't want to answer the question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I can't compare him to the president because the president doesn't like to answer policy question, but don't the American people deserve some answers on these questions? Is the former vice president possibly, the next president of the United States, is he going to push down the filibuster? Will he fight the Democrats if they try to do that? Will he try to expand the Supreme Court from nine to 11 to 13 justices? Is that not a fair question?

RICHMOND: Well, first of all, look, the vice president is very capable and he's going to be a great president, but whether we introduce legislation to stack the court, that's in my purview in terms of being a United States congressman. So, that's going to come from members in the House and hopefully a Democratic Senate. And I think that he will give advice and guidance and ultimately have a decision to make and he will weigh in.

But right now, that is a decision left to the Congress. And it would be a distraction from the issue at hand. The issue at hand is that this president is trying to force a pick on American people in record speed after people have started to vote. When they denied President Obama his choice on the Supreme Court. I think going down any other road or any other conversation is a distraction from that point.

KING: Congressman, I want to ask you as best you can, you are here as the national co-chair of the Biden campaign. You're a proud Democrat. You're a member of the House of Representatives. I get all of that.

But I want to ask you, as best you can, set aside all that, and as a black man from Louisiana, how do you respond to this, this is the president of the United States asked on a national debate stage to condemn white supremacy. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Well, do it, sir.

BIDEN: Say it, do it say it.

TRUMP: You want to call them - what do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead who do you want me to condemn.

WALLACE: White supremacist and right-wing militia.

TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what - I'll tell you what somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Proud boys, stand back and stand by. What's your reaction to that?

RICHMOND: My reaction, not the campaign reaction. My reaction is he's sick, and you know, he does this over and over again, and he will play the race card because he's a racist, but he plays the race card when he's stumped and he'd rather people call him a racist than incompetent. And so, as he -- you know, he is what he is.

And look, black people are suffering disproportionately from coronavirus. You heard the numbers last night and I won't repeat them, but almost half of black businesses will close, small businesses will close and not reopen. We are taking the lion share, the disproportionate share of the deaths and infections and just the impact.

And so, that's what people are talking about, whether this president is a racist or not, I think we've all made up our minds, but we are really battling for the future of America and empowering African Americans to be architects of our own future.

And so, you know it's just sad, but he is who he is. He can't help himself. And so -- but it is fearful because my fear is that he is empowering them, he is urging them to actually do something and what I would hope and what I would say to even his followers and even to those racial -- people with racial challenges and those racists that follow him and the proud boys is that Donald Trump doesn't care about you.

He doesn't care about black people. He doesn't care about poor people. He doesn't care about poor white people and he only cares about people with the last name Trump.

And so, he will use you and he will push you to create chaos. He will push you to start a race war, but he doesn't care about you or your well-being because look at your economic plight, look at his handling of coronavirus. So, don't get so swayed as being anti-black when this president is not for you or black people.

KING: Congressman Richmond, grateful for your time today, sir. Thank you.

RICHMOND: Thank you.

KING: Have a good day, sir.

Up next for us, New York City easing some restaurant restrictions today. National coronavirus numbers though heading in the wrong direction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)